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View Full Version : Bringing in new characters in a megadungeon campaign



ken-do-nim
2009-11-15, 08:55 PM
I am planning to run what I consider to be one of the finest adventures ever: Rappan Athuk Reloaded. It happens to be a total meatgrinder, and I am predicting frequent character death. Therefore the rule I create about what level and with what equipment new pcs come in with is fairly critical.

So let's see, here are the options I've come up with:
1. All new characters start at level 1. No freakin way.
2. All new characters start at the average level of the party (or average level minus one, etc). Doable, but I often see the attitude in campaigns with this rule that it is better to start a new character than resurrect an old one, particularly if the new character can start at a higher level than the old one.
3. There are various checkpoints in the dungeon, each keyed to a certain character level. When these checkpoints are reached - even if the characters reaching that checkpoint subsequently get killed - then the players may bring in characters at a level equal to the highest checkpoint reached.

I'm fairly enamored with option 3, what do you think?

As for equipment, here's my plan. As the players clear out the dungeon, they will inevitably sell off some of the items they find. I will keep track of these items. New characters get appropriate wealth by level, and may purchase any items previously sold by older characters.

jokey665
2009-11-15, 08:57 PM
I believe "enamored" is a suitable word for how I feel about option 3. :smallsmile:

Temet Nosce
2009-11-15, 09:00 PM
2. All new characters start at the average level of the party (or average level minus one, etc). Doable, but I often see the attitude in campaigns with this rule that it is better to start a new character than resurrect an old one, particularly if the new character can start at a higher level than the old one.

I'd go with this one. Or just letting them bring in a character at a level equal to their last. However, I have to note I am really not a fan of resurrection at all and think it's far to easy (I usually ban every method except the spell that resurrects someone within a round of death).

Also, generally speaking if they hit something hard enough to kill one (or several) of them then making them start at a lower level may just set off a chain reaction resulting in them dying more and more until they TPK.

ken-do-nim
2009-11-15, 09:42 PM
Also, generally speaking if they hit something hard enough to kill one (or several) of them then making them start at a lower level may just set off a chain reaction resulting in them dying more and more until they TPK.

They don't have to go right back to the last encounter they left off at. They can go do other things until they are ready to return to the place that killed the last party. There will probably be plenty of TPKs in Rappan Athuk as there are all these wonderful hidden nooks & crannies of absurb challenge rating encounters tucked away amongst otherwise easier stuff.

Darcand
2009-11-15, 09:49 PM
Just becareful with frequent character death. Having to watch your friends playing while you wait for a spot to be dropped back into the story sucks.

Temet Nosce
2009-11-15, 09:57 PM
They don't have to go right back to the last encounter they left off at. They can go do other things until they are ready to return to the place that killed the last party. There will probably be plenty of TPKs in Rappan Athuk as there are all these wonderful hidden nooks & crannies of absurb challenge rating encounters tucked away amongst otherwise easier stuff.

Ah, your DMing style is vastly different from mine. TPK means game over for me, and I'd never go easy on anyone. I guess if you'll let them continue no matter what and grind their level up you should be ok, not my personal preference but like I just mentioned you seem to play differently than me.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-15, 10:00 PM
TPK = fail. Bring in new characters at the beginning if you want to give it another go.

Single character death = Hey look, the evil guys we just defeated had a prisoner tied up. Lets free them! *magic handwave*

Dimers
2009-11-15, 10:06 PM
I'm fairly enamored with option 3, what do you think?

Depends on how far apart those checkpoints are in terms of character levels. My assumption is approximately one 'level' apart or a little less, at which point options 2 and 3 look pretty similar. 3 is still safer for the party, though, in case of repeated TPK.


As for equipment, here's my plan. As the players clear out the dungeon, they will inevitably sell off some of the items they find. I will keep track of these items. New characters get appropriate wealth by level, and may purchase any items previously sold by older characters.

Be ready to answer whether casters can make their own magic items, too.

RiOrius
2009-11-15, 10:20 PM
As for equipment, here's my plan. As the players clear out the dungeon, they will inevitably sell off some of the items they find. I will keep track of these items. New characters get appropriate wealth by level, and may purchase any items previously sold by older characters.

Keep in mind that, presumably, the dead character's body will be looted. This system would mean that with each character death, the party's wealth is increased (since they get the dead guy's stuff and the new guy comes in with his own stuff).

Not necessarily a bad thing, since it will help automatically balance difficulty (the more they die, the stronger they'll be). Just make sure that this is an outcome you're happy with.

sambo.
2009-11-15, 10:41 PM
one level lower than the lowest surviving character with half the xp required for next level is one method i've encountered in the past.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-15, 11:06 PM
one level lower than the lowest surviving character with half the xp required for next level is one method i've encountered in the past.

This is the method Ive seen done. You end up slightly ahead of WBL party wide, but a death is still a net loss of power, since magic shops are typically not available everywhere anyhow, and levels are much harder to replace than a few gold.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-11-15, 11:11 PM
The last time I ran a megadungeon, I had each player roll up 4 "backup" characters connected to the original characters--an older sibling who was lost in the dungeon, a rival or two who were checking it out ahead of them, etc.--whom I then placed at appropriate places in the dungeon for them to pick up later. (One of each was left outside to serve as a rescue party in case of TPK.) If they were found before anyone died, well, good for them; they got NPC'd until they were needed.

Otherwise, dead players took over the rescued ones they'd rolled up, and once they went through 5 characters they were done. That discouraged them from dying too much while still ensuring they were willing to take some risks. Apart from one player who went through all 5 backups because he knew he'd be going out of town before the campaign ended anyway, no one had to use more than 2 or 3 of their backups, and the fact that they'd been integrated into the story from the beginning made it more realistic than just a "Yay! A prisoner to rescue and stick in our group!" scenario.

ken-do-nim
2009-11-16, 06:52 AM
Ah, your DMing style is vastly different from mine. TPK means game over for me, and I'd never go easy on anyone. I guess if you'll let them continue no matter what and grind their level up you should be ok, not my personal preference but like I just mentioned you seem to play differently than me.

Misunderstanding? I meant that if the current party gets TPKd in the dungeon, the players roll up new characters who can adventure elsewhere until they build up enough power that they think they can return to the spot in the dungeon where the last party bit it. If on the first TPK you decide that the megadungeon is now closed for adventuring, well you aren't going to get much use out of the product.

ken-do-nim
2009-11-16, 06:55 AM
The last time I ran a megadungeon, I had each player roll up 4 "backup" characters connected to the original characters--an older sibling who was lost in the dungeon, a rival or two who were checking it out ahead of them, etc.--whom I then placed at appropriate places in the dungeon for them to pick up later. (One of each was left outside to serve as a rescue party in case of TPK.) If they were found before anyone died, well, good for them; they got NPC'd until they were needed.

Otherwise, dead players took over the rescued ones they'd rolled up, and once they went through 5 characters they were done. That discouraged them from dying too much while still ensuring they were willing to take some risks. Apart from one player who went through all 5 backups because he knew he'd be going out of town before the campaign ended anyway, no one had to use more than 2 or 3 of their backups, and the fact that they'd been integrated into the story from the beginning made it more realistic than just a "Yay! A prisoner to rescue and stick in our group!" scenario.

I like it. My concern is that if the player rolls up 5 4th level characters, and the initial pc makes it to 8th level and then bites it, what use is a 4th level character going to be?

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-11-16, 11:22 AM
I like it. My concern is that if the player rolls up 5 4th level characters, and the initial pc makes it to 8th level and then bites it, what use is a 4th level character going to be?

The backups are created at different levels--I think it was 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, and 12th--based on where they'd be found in the dungeon, with the 8th level ones being the rescue party. (I offered to let them make versions of all 5 at those levels so I could vary it up a bit, but everyone declined. :smallwink:) Then you place them where you'd expect the players would be the same level: around when they'd hit 5th level, they find the 5th level one(s), and so forth.

Another_Poet
2009-11-16, 11:25 AM
I like your checkpoint idea.

Another alternative is what we do in the Northern Frontiers game: character points.

When you lose a PC, you gain a number of char points equal to that character's level. So your 5th level barbarian dies and you get 5 char points.

You can invest these points in raising the starting level of a new characters. 1st level characters are free, a level 2 character costs 3 points, a level 3 character costs 5 points, Level 4 costs 7, Level 5 costs 9, etc.

You can never create a new character who is higher in level than the highest you have ever earned through XP. So if your dead 5th level barbarian was the highest you ever made it, you could make a level 1 - 5 character but not a 6th level or higher character.

Alternately, character points can boost the starting wealth of a new character, with each point being worth an amount of gold set by the GM.

Players can save up their points for a long time if they want - they don't have to spend them when creating a new character.

Just a thought.

9mm
2009-11-16, 11:26 AM
My DM has a rule; if you bring in a new character after dieing you can't be any of the classes as your previous character. It cuts down the I die to level phenominon.

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-16, 11:27 AM
Random placement of "Summon PC" scrolls to bring them in, at average party level -1.