Dragon Age 2: Shield bash for success

[Ikialev]

The first one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128178)

Also, the 5th day without anything to make me start playing. :smallannoyed:

[Myshlaevsky]

Chiming in to say give this thread a less boring and straightforward name. :smalltongue:

Did people not vote for one at the close of the old thread?

[Name_Here]

Morrigan disapproves of the thread title.

[Myshlaevsky]

Morrigan disapproves of the thread title.

'Tis true, 'tis.

[Name_Here]

What does everybody think of Morrigan anyway? The Bioware forums are a seething ocean of Morrigan hatred where they were screaming that they should have been allowed to kill or at least scar her during the scene where she reveals her master plan which left me disturbed.

[Gullara]

What does everybody think of Morrigan anyway? The Bioware forums are a seething ocean of Morrigan hatred where they were screaming that they should have been allowed to kill or at least scar her during the scene where she reveals her master plan which left me disturbed.

Ahhh spoiler, spoiler boxes please. Anywho, Morrigan is one of my favorite characters so far.

[Myshlaevsky]

What does everybody think of Morrigan anyway? The Bioware forums are a seething ocean of Morrigan hatred where they were screaming that they should have been allowed to kill or at least scar her during the scene where she reveals her master plan which left me disturbed.

I feel kind of sorry for Morrigan, really. So far she's her mother's child in the worst of ways - and it seems like that's an inescapable fate. It's hardly surprising given her childhood that she turns out as she is, in my opinion.

On which note, check Check this one out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7q2vvFs_50)

Thanks for changing the name Il'deav.

[Moklok]

Gameplay-wise, Morrigan is awesome, and I will never go without her. RP-wise, definitly not my favorite, but she is ok.




On which note, check Check this one out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7q2vvFs_50)


Oh wow...thats hilarious!

[Shikton]

And could we please get a spoiler alert for people (like me) who haven't finished the game yet? :P

[Trixie]

Morrigan disapproves of the thread title.

STEN DISAPPROVES -10.

Also, to the OP: if you hate the game so much, znam kogoś kto chętnie kupi grę ze zniżką - and besides, it is your own fault :smalltongue:

[Gullara]

STEN DISAPPROVES -10.

Also, to the OP: if you hate the game so much, znam kogoś kto chętnie kupi grę ze zniżką - and besides, it is your own fault :smalltongue:

When Sten disapproves PEOPLE DIE!!

[Zevox]

I like Morrigan. She's an intelligent woman, and it's always a delight to hear her rebuff Leliana or Alistair. A bit excessive in the pragmatism regard, but I can't deny she has a point when she mocks you for helping every sap you meet when you have more important, urgent things to do. She just needs to learn some compassion to go with that sharp mind and sense of pragmatism.

As for her final "plan," I largely don't see a problem with it. My thought process when I learned it last night was thus:

- Okay, plan to save my life, involves magic ritual. Let's hear it.
- Have sex with her. Sounds fine so far, we were already lovers anyway.
- Child will be conceived. Okay.
- Child will bear my Darkspawn taint. Raises numerous questions about the kind of life it could expect, or whether it would have the traits of a Gray Warden, but fine in and of itself.
- When the Archdemon dies, it's essence will seek the child out instead of a Darkspawn or Gray Warden. Raises questions of what that means.
- Child will survive, and the Darkspawn taint of the Archdemon will be dissipated in the process. Sounds good.
- Child will effectively be born with the soul of an Old God. Sounds fine.
- Morrigan will leave and never see me again. Here's where I start having issues, as that's a bit suspicious, and besides, my character loves her; so I question her on the matter.
- She gives out little information, but some hints. Child will be raised to know and respect its origins (presumably mostly the Old God soul thing, though I may hope I factor in there somewhere too, given she admits she has come to love me, which she did not expect to happen). "Some things in this world are worth preserving," she says. I can respect that.

Leaves me only with the concern of why she won't tell me more, or let me accompany her wherever she's going. But my character loves her, and at this point, I trust her. She doesn't seem like some kind of loon hell-bent on destroying the world or anything, and with her mother dead, it is truly her in charge of this situation, not Flemmeth, who I have much less reason to trust. And I can always go after her, find her myself after she departs (which I tell her I will do during your final discussions with your allies before the final battle, and tell Queen Anora I will do after the Archdemon is slain). So I go for it.

Actually, the romance with her was Bioware's best, in my opinion (compared to Jade Empire and Mass Effect - I haven't romanced anyone else in Dragon Age yet). They didn't stop it after the sex scene like they did in previous games, and did an excellent job showing her wrestling with her general regard of love as a weakness and her growing love for the character. Fantastic work. I only wish there had been a way to get her to change enough that she would confide in you more at the end, or perhaps even offer to take you with her wherever she is going.
Zevox

[Name_Here]

Ahhh spoiler, spoiler boxes please. Anywho, Morrigan is one of my favorite characters so far.

You serial? I threw up the spoiler boxes but I didn't think there was anything spoilerish in there.

[Celesyne]

Question: I just bought the golem control rod for the Stone Prisoner quest, but there is no map marker for where to go. Do I have to complete one of the "area" quests first so Lothering is overrun?

EDIT: fixxored

[Myshlaevsky]

Question: I just bought the golem control rod for the Stone Prisoner quest, but there is no map marker for where to go. Do I have to complete one of the "area" quests first so Lothering is overrun?

Out of concern for the general becrying of spoiler in this thread and the previous one, this could probably do with a spoiler - the later part.

On the other hand, maybe we should just slap a "read at your own risk" on the thread.

[Laeric]

From the last thread:


kill the boy is a bad moral choice but is a right situational decition. why? if u left gim and go for the mage help, in your return u will find red clif on ashes, all burned, all filled with demons and undeads.


This does not happen. This was the choice I made on my first play through. When I returned, the town was in the exact same condition as when I left it .... and I actually had to do the Broken Circle quest before I came back.

[Muz]

Can anyone tell me if Wynne is the one who gives you the Spirit Healer specialization? (If she's not, just say "No," as I want to find it on my own.) If she is, then...oops. Next game, I guess. :smallbiggrin:

Hey. She attacked ME. ...That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Zevox]

Can anyone tell me if Wynne is the one who gives you the Spirit Healer specialization? (If she's not, just say "No," as I want to find it on my own.) If she is, then...oops. Next game, I guess. :smallbiggrin:

Hey. She attacked ME. ...That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I'm unsure, as I didn't get her to do so during my first game, but I think she can. But... (note: spoiler is not really spoiler, does not have anything at all to do with the story, I just used it in case you really don't want to know.)
There is also a book you can purchase, from the Denerim shop run by a Tranquil I believe, that unlocks the specialization. That one I know for sure.
Zevox

[Celesyne]

She will, if you can get her to like you enough. By the by, the respec potion completely breaks the game. You can respec ANY character from the ground up, which means on my team evil, Morrigan became a Healer/controller, totally not fair. Oh, and still need previous question answered if possible.

[Laeric]

Can anyone tell me if Wynne is the one who gives you the Spirit Healer specialization? (If she's not, just say "No," as I want to find it on my own.) If she is, then...oops. Next game, I guess. :smallbiggrin:

Hey. She attacked ME. ...That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Yes and no. .... Hey don't blame me, you said you wanted to find it on your own.

[Myshlaevsky]

She will, if you can get her to like you enough. By the by, the respec potion completely breaks the game. You can respec ANY character from the ground up, which means on my team evil, Morrigan became a Healer/controller, totally not fair. Oh, and still need previous question answered if possible.

That's your decision, not the potion. I actually got the mod just so that I could choose spells/talents on my characters from the ground up, so I'm not complaining about that. I have kept their original specializations.

[Celesyne]

Oh, Im not complaining, Morrigan with Spirit Healer and Blood Mage is abso-farkin-lutely rediculously awesome. Being able to make Leilana an Assassin/duelist also awesome. Some will find it munchkiney, but I like the ability to completely customize my companions.

[Muz]

I personally LIKE shapeshifting, even if people do say it's underpowered. It's fun. (And seeing upgraded spider-Morrigan pounce on an enemy and rip into him is delightfully disgusting. :smallbiggrin: )

[Myshlaevsky]

I personally LIKE shapeshifting, even if people do say it's underpowered. It's fun. (And seeing upgraded spider-Morrigan pounce on an enemy and rip into him is delightfully disgusting. :smallbiggrin: )

I think the 'mana = health' and AoE effect health drain of Insect Swarm & Master Shapeshifter are the power of the Shapeshifter specialisation. Especially when combined with Blood Mage, I imagine.

Edit: In the last thread Gralamin linked to a sweet mod-in-progress designed to give Morrigan a drake form. That could be neat.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I like how people ask for spoiler boxes, but then quote the spoiled material without adding in their own boxes.

Common people, use your heads.

[Celesyne]

Still wondering when your supposed to be able to start the Stone Prisoner DLC, as previously stated, I have the control rod, and nowhere to go to.. bug or do I need to go do stuff first?

[Dienekes]

From the last thread:



This does not happen. This was the choice I made on my first play through. When I returned, the town was in the exact same condition as when I left it .... and I actually had to do the Broken Circle quest before I came back.

Yeah I thought it would happen like that as well. And I still don't understand why it wouldn't. I mean, zombies. They pop up every night. So why don't they once I leave? Is it because I killed the zombies? Then why do the townsfolk say no matter how they defend themselves more come every night? Personally I thought it would have been better that if you do leave, when you return all that's left is the Blood Mage in prison, the mom, the dying dad, and the repossessed cool guy.

[Celesyne]

Personally, I believe after all the arse kicking you would have done, that Ms. Demon may have run out of corpses to turn into big bad zombies, but thats just me.

[Muz]

Can I float a request that spoiler boxes have some sort of non-spoilered label that gives an idea of what will be spoilered if we open it? (I'm halfway through the game, so some spoilers I'll allow myself, some not.)

Pardon my pedantry. :smallwink:

[Celesyne]

Ok, having tried the Stone Prisoner thingy on 3 different saves now, I am at a loss. I go to the merchants location, go through his entire dialog tree. He gives me the control rod and say the golem is in honnleath village in the SW of Ferelden. It then completes the "visit curious merchant" quest that is in my log and doesn't give me a follow up or a map marker to go to this village. I don't know what else to do.

[Avilan the Grey]

Ok, having tried the Stone Prisoner thingy on 3 different saves now, I am at a loss. I go to the merchants location, go through his entire dialog tree. He gives me the control rod and say the golem is in honnleath village in the SW of Ferelden. It then completes the "visit curious merchant" quest that is in my log and doesn't give me a follow up or a map marker to go to this village. I don't know what else to do.

All I can say is that it works for me; the map maker with a golem on far to the south, colored yellow (to show it's a DLC marker, I'm sure, same as the Warden's keep creates a yellow map marker to the far north).

Re: Morrigan: The only thing that worries me is that usual NPC disease; "Failure of grasping the big picture". I love Morrigan, but sometimes I just feel like shaking her hard. I need to be able to explain to her that the reason we are running this little errand or do that little quest is to make the whole "summon armies" deal quicker, which means she gets to go home quicker. Stop complaining and play nice, and it will all be over soon!

[ondonaflash]

It was your sled all along. And a dream. And you kill Dumbledore... with Rosebud.

[Comet]

A word to the wise: Wynne does NOT teach Spirit Healer. Her healer skills are... due to a unique condition, not any formal training.

[Celesyne]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7290438&postcount=1054 <-- Zousha gave a pretty apt summary of where to get everything, based on the Prima guide. I haven't done a lot of Wynne wooing, but according to him she does in-fact teach you.

[arguskos]

A word to the wise: Wynne does NOT teach Spirit Healer. Her healer skills are... due to a unique condition, not any formal training.
Spirit Healer is in a manual in the Wonders of Thedas. AMAZING PURCHASE, BTW. :smallamused:

Also, Arcane Warrior is good times, by the way. It's pretty awesome stuff.

So is Ageless, a badass greatsword you can get in Orzammar through a hilarious little hidden thing in the Throne Room. If you go there before you crown a king, there are three pressure plates (two in the room, one right outside it) you can step on. If you put someone on each, then click the throne, a dragon spawns, which you can kill, and take Ageless from it's corpse. By the way, Ageless is AMAZING. Like, better than Faith's Edge and Yusaris amazing.

[Fawkes]

Hey, so- I don't have this game.

I've never played any MMORPGs, and don't intend to. I liked the KoToR games. I enjoyed Baldur's Gate, but never came close to finishing it. I loved Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. I liked Fable, but it wasn't my favorite.

Should I buy this game? If I do buy it, it'll be for Xbox.

[Myshlaevsky]

Hey, so- I don't have this game.

I've never played any MMORPGs, and don't intend to. I liked the KoToR games. I enjoyed Baldur's Gate, but never came close to finishing it. I loved Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. I liked Fable, but it wasn't my favorite.

Should I buy this game? If I do buy it, it'll be for Xbox.

Speaking personally, I like on par with Fallout 3, better than Mass Effect and much, much better than Fable. I can't compare it to Baldur's Gate yet, I feel I'd really have it finish it first to do that. I'll probably end up preferring it to Fallout 3 once I'm a bit further in. I've been restarting a lot just to try different things.

[Fawkes]

What game would you say that the combat is closest to?

[Myshlaevsky]

What game would you say that the combat is closest to?

Baldur's Gate, definitely.

On that note: rather frustrated by AI archers right now. Leliana seems to get by fine, just about. Everyone else will almost universally sheathe their bows and jump right in to melee. It's pretty annoying.

[Celesyne]

If its your Allies (as in you can click to and control) you need to set their behavior (in the tactics menu) to ranged, then they will run away and try to stay at bow range. Though I think they may still switch to melee if they don't have the archery talent that ignores interrupts.

[Myshlaevsky]

If its your Allies (as in you can click to and control) you need to set their behavior (in the tactics menu) to ranged, then they will run away and try to stay at bow range. Though I think they may still switch to melee if they don't have the archery talent that ignores interrupts.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to help much. I'll just grab that talent ASAP I guess. I wouldn't be annoyed so much if it was when the enemy was in melee, but it seems to be more when the enemy could, perhaps, maybe, conceviably get into melee in a couple of seconds or so.

I guess maybe the game is trying to tell me archery is gimped. I'd download the patch for it, but I've heard that it can crash the game. So, two questions:

1) Any stories of patch crashing or suggestions on how to avoid it?
2) Does Lethality affect bows?

[Trixie]

Ok, having tried the Stone Prisoner thingy on 3 different saves now, I am at a loss. I go to the merchants location, go through his entire dialog tree. He gives me the control rod and say the golem is in honnleath village in the SW of Ferelden. It then completes the "visit curious merchant" quest that is in my log and doesn't give me a follow up or a map marker to go to this village. I don't know what else to do.

Heh heh heh...

You might want to read my "why Bioware sucks" rant part one and two :smallamused:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Spirit Healer is in a manual in the Wonders of Thedas. AMAZING PURCHASE, BTW. :smallamused:

Also, Arcane Warrior is good times, by the way. It's pretty awesome stuff.

So is Ageless, a badass greatsword you can get in Orzammar through a hilarious little hidden thing in the Throne Room. If you go there before you crown a king, there are three pressure plates (two in the room, one right outside it) you can step on. If you put someone on each, then click the throne, a dragon spawns, which you can kill, and take Ageless from it's corpse. By the way, Ageless is AMAZING. Like, better than Faith's Edge and Yusaris amazing.

Even better than Starfang?

[Myatar_Panwar]

I guess maybe the game is trying to tell me archery is gimped. I'd download the patch for it, but I've heard that it can crash the game. So, two questions:

1) Any stories of patch crashing or suggestions on how to avoid it?
2) Does Lethality affect bows?

Archery is, indeed, pretty gimped. Even with their fix, it is nowhere near as good as melee. Which is sad... I'm not even entirely sure as to what they could do to fix it.

I'm pretty sure Lethality does affect bows though. I used the respec potion on my level 15-ish rogue awhile back and added Lethality, though I'm not sure if I properly made sure it was working. It seemed to.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Really? The Prima Guide says that a warrior focused in Archery and dabbles a bit in dual-wielding can do as much damage as a DPS-oriented mage with the added benefit of better close combat from the dual wielding and the fact that they can wear heavier armors without suffering penalties.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Really? The Prima Guide says that a warrior focused in Archery and dabbles a bit in dual-wielding can do as much damage as a DPS-oriented mage with the added benefit of better close combat from the dual wielding and the fact that they can wear heavier armors without suffering penalties.

You would trust a guide? Arn't these made by BioWare, or at least largely in with them?

They are telling you what an archer should be ideally.

And I can't say that an archer woulden't do more damage than a mage, but I can sure as hell tell you that he won't be doing as good if he were to just get behind a fool and start backstabbing.

edit: Okay, I can think of one thing they could do to help archery. ENCHANTMENT SLOTS. I have yet to see a bow with an enchantment slot, and I'm not even sure if they exist. I've seen axes and hammers with THREE slots. That could lead to +15 damage. I'm not even sure if bows are affect by flaming weapons and the like.

[Fawkes]

How much more control do you have over your main character in combat vs. your party members?

[Myatar_Panwar]

How much more control do you have over your main character in combat vs. your party members?

You have control over everybody, with everything they do. It is a full team. If you are not controlling one of your four party members, you are controlling another. While you are not controlling your main character, the game uses its "tactics" (instructions you give the AI to follow), just like every other character in your party.

[thorgrim29]

You can set each party member with predetermined tactics (skills and the power of PLOT let you set more on each character), and then you 100% control one of the characters (you can switch which one at will). It's a pretty nifty way to handle it.

[Myshlaevsky]

How much more control do you have over your main character in combat vs. your party members?

Exactly the same. You can switch between them at will and your main character comes with the same AI tactics slots as everyone else does. On the PC you can also pause and give specific, fully-controlled commands to everyone at once. I'm not sure if you can do this on the Xbox 360 or PS3.


Really? The Prima Guide says that a warrior focused in Archery and dabbles a bit in dual-wielding can do as much damage as a DPS-oriented mage with the added benefit of better close combat from the dual wielding and the fact that they can wear heavier armors without suffering penalties.

Archery isn't a terrible option, I just don't think it's supposed to be as good as meleeing. In the later stages of the game, a dpsing mage is apparently considerably less damaging than a melee dps character so you may well be right in that comparison. An archer certainly has range and some interesting abilities, at least.

[Gorgondantess]

Actually, I've always found archery rather useful. Sure, not the powerhouse a dual-wielding warrior can be, but useful nonetheless.
The power of archery is to be able to immediately change your target, at any time.
This doesn't seem to useful, until you realize how incredibly long it takes your melee-rs to disengage from one foe and run over to start beating on another.
It doesn't do much damage, and if that's all you're going for then definitely pass archery up, but it allows for some decent tactical options.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You would trust a guide? Arn't these made by BioWare, or at least largely in with them?

They are telling you what an archer should be ideally.

And I can't say that an archer woulden't do more damage than a mage, but I can sure as hell tell you that he won't be doing as good if he were to just get behind a fool and start backstabbing.

edit: Okay, I can think of one thing they could do to help archery. ENCHANTMENT SLOTS. I have yet to see a bow with an enchantment slot, and I'm not even sure if they exist. I've seen axes and hammers with THREE slots. That could lead to +15 damage. I'm not even sure if bows are affect by flaming weapons and the like.

The guide IS official. I always trust official things. They're official.

[arguskos]

Zousha:
I don't have the DLC. What's the stats on Starfang? Unless it's basically "loleverythingina10-ftradiusdies", I'm betting Ageless is as good or better.

Also, I NEVER trust the guides when it comes to character builds. Ever. I did a few times in the past, and they never really worked out that well for me.

EDIT: There are no bows with enchantment slots that I am aware of. I've found some of the better bows, such as The Dark Moon, Falon'Din's Reach, and some others, and I've yet to find a way to make archery anything but a waste of space.

[Myatar_Panwar]

The guide IS official. I always trust official things. They're official.

That is a pretty naive stance. Most every RPG ever will have some balance issues, and the guide isn't going to tell you what is broken about their game.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, I'm a naive person.

And I don't like math, so I can never say anything meaningful about balance issues.

[Irbis]

The guide IS official. I always trust official things. They're official.

The one full of holes already pointed here? :smalltongue:

[warty goblin]

The guide IS official. I always trust official things. They're official.

Dear Lord, that's gotta make for some...interesting gameplay experiences. My copy of the Prima guide for Oblivion informed me that it was more important to quickly get the skill increase perks than worry about maxing out Attribute increases. It also told me to take skills that I planned on using a lot.

Thankfully I'm a cynical bastard who double checked that before I started playing...

My impression of archery from Deep Roads was that it simply didn't do damage reliably enough to be worthwhile, and when it did do damage it wasn't particularly better than my non-melee specced fighter could do by switching to a honking great axe, even though the axe was a much less valuable weapon than the bow in question. I don't neccessarily object to high varience weapons, but because the low is lower, the high had better be higher.

Anyways, my bow wielding fantasies don't generally invovle shooting Joe E. McMinion fifteen times. Did Legolas have to do that? No, he did not. I would like my arrows to kill things, thank you very much.

This would even work well as a high varience weapon, so either you do a lot of damage and drop most common enemies in two or three hits, or you do basically none. On average it could still even out with melee, but play quite differently.

[Zevox]

*reads the link to Zousha's explanation of how to acquire specializations*
Aw, damn, so Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive? Shoot.

Well, I guess that makes choosing specializations for my new warrior easier - Berserker + Reaver it is, since I want to go with different decisions this time around than I did the first, and can't do Champion if I do that (and have no interest in Templar). But it sucks that a couple of specializations are mutually exclusive like that. Limits your options.
Zevox

[arguskos]

*reads the link to Zousha's explanation of how to acquire specializations*
Aw, damn, so Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive? Shoot.

Well, I guess that makes choosing specializations for my new warrior easier - Berserker + Reaver it is, since I want to go with different decisions this time around than I did the first, and can't do Champion if I do that (and have no interest in Templar). But it sucks that a couple of specializations are mutually exclusive like that. Limits your options.
Zevox
Only on a single playthrough. What that means is that you can pick up Reaver the first time through, and then next playthrough you can nick Champion.

Also, I'd like to warn you there are... issues... with getting Reaver. You may encounter some party-related problems if you go that route.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That isn't exactly what I meant. When I got the Oblivion guide I didn't really follow its instructions on character types, since I'd already played Morrowind and knew what I wanted. The only real reason I got it was for the walkthrough stuff. That's why I got the DAO guide, especially since DAO has a much more complex storyline. The Official Mass Effect guide I have was excellent, so I've come to trust the guides pretty much.

Character building in Dragon Age seems like a bit of a no-brainer. Pick the style you want and focus on building up the talents in it, rather than using multiple styles which doesn't really help you much. Get the stats you need for the talents and skills you want. Other than that, it seems pretty self-explanatory.

Besides, there's no real good character build guides on GameFAQS yet.

[Belobog]

A few things.

First, about Warden's Keep:

Who is Levi Dryden, and how do I get him? He's apparently the lynchpin to the cornerstone to the foundation of getting to the Dread Castle Grimdark, and I've yet to hear anything about him. It's kind of irritating.

Second, Denerim seems to cause the game's difficulty to jump up like it found a tarantula under the toilet. I've run into quite a few random encounters that are more difficult than any other fight I've been in, including fighting a Revenant or Uldred or the Sloth thing. Even going out and doing other quests afterward, like the Urn of Sacred Ashes, is not as hard as fighting a bunch of white named bandit mooks on the streets of Denerim.

About Reaver: save before the choice comes up, then get Reaver and load the earlier save. You should still have Reaver, and I think some people stated earlier that Reaver itself is not the problem, but that the process of getting it is.

[Celesyne]

I was under the impression that if you unlocked.... say champion on 1 save, it was unlocked game wide, so you could start another warrior and get to level 7 in Lothering and be a champion right then.

So, in all technicality, if i am correct, you could make what you wanted with no issue.

[Myshlaevsky]

*reads the link to Zousha's explanation of how to acquire specializations*
Aw, damn, so Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive? Shoot.

Well, I guess that makes choosing specializations for my new warrior easier - Berserker + Reaver it is, since I want to go with different decisions this time around than I did the first, and can't do Champion if I do that (and have no interest in Templar). But it sucks that a couple of specializations are mutually exclusive like that. Limits your options.
Zevox

If you download the respec mod you can gain specialisations without the necessary playthrough - but only those specialisations which NPC companions feature. This is included so that you can respec at early levels and still give your companions their default attributes. However, if you really wanted a Reaver I'm pretty sure that's on the list.

However, in this case, the point for your second playthough is moot - once a specialisation is unlocked it stays unlocked.


A few things.

First, about Warden's Keep:

Who is Levi Dryden, and how do I get him? He's apparently the lynchpin to the cornerstone to the foundation of getting to the Dread Castle Grimdark, and I've yet to hear anything about him. It's kind of irritating.

Second, Denerim seems to cause the game's difficulty to jump up like it found a tarantula under the toilet. I've run into quite a few random encounters that are more difficult than any other fight I've been in, including fighting a Revenant or Uldred or the Sloth thing. Even going out and doing other quests afterward, like the Urn of Sacred Ashes, is not as hard as fighting a bunch of white named bandit mooks on the streets of Denerim.

He appears in your camp.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Only on a single playthrough. What that means is that you can pick up Reaver the first time through, and then next playthrough you can nick Champion.

Also, I'd like to warn you there are... issues... with getting Reaver. You may encounter some party-related problems if you go that route.
If you want to know:
Don't brink Leliana or Wynne if you plan on getting Reaver. If you do, they will attack you and you'll need to kill them. This is an inconvenience in two ways. One, you'll be out a party member or two during the fight, and you'll be fighting the Guardian as well, and two, you'll never have access to that party member for the rest of the game. So, if you want to keep them, leave them at camp.

[Zevox]

Only on a single playthrough. What that means is that you can pick up Reaver the first time through, and then next playthrough you can nick Champion.
No, it's across playthroughs. Most specializations carry over once unlocked. Champion does not - I've seen that for myself from the couple of times I leveled up my new warrior. Templar and Berserker are unlocked already, even though I'm barely past the origin story part, while Champion is locked, even though I unlocked it on my first play through. I imagine it will be the same with Reaver, given how this is set up.
Zevox

[Zevox]

If you download the respec mod you can gain specialisations without the necessary playthrough - but only those specialisations which NPC companions feature. This is included so that you can respec at early levels and still give your companions their default attributes. However, if you really wanted a Reaver I'm pretty sure that's on the list.
I have the game on the 360. No mods. And I wouldn't want to resort to one for something like this anyway. (And no NPC companions come with Reaver.)

Zevox

[Myatar_Panwar]

I was under the impression that if you unlocked.... say champion on 1 save, it was unlocked game wide, so you could start another warrior and get to level 7 in Lothering and be a champion right then.

So, in all technicality, if i am correct, you could make what you wanted with no issue.

You are right.

Want a cheap specialization? Save your game, buy the book and read it, reload save.

It is tied to your profile, not character.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So champion and reaver are ALWAYS mutually exclusive?

[king.com]

Odd question but does the repect mod give you instant win with all the achievements (all the ones where it needs you to max out a talent tree)?

[ondonaflash]

You are right.

Want a cheap specialization? Save your game, buy the book and read it, reload save.

It is tied to your profile, not character.

Twiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink

[Myshlaevsky]

Odd question but does the repect mod give you instant win with all the achievements (all the ones where it needs you to max out a talent tree)?

It seems to.


I have the game on the 360. No mods. And I wouldn't want to resort to one for something like this anyway. (And no NPC companions come with Reaver.)

Zevox

I don't think it's particularly abusive but your call.

A google search turns up many people saying Reaver/Champion are not mutually exclusive, and that the guide is spreading misinformation. Apparently it is possible, you just have to do things in a certain way and a certain order.

Edit: Ta-da! (http://daforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=704723&forum=145)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What I mean are they always mutually exclusive is, do you have to unlock them every time? They don't carry over like other specializations do? Why would they do that?

[Aricandor]

Nope. If you can indeed just get one each play-through, they'd still be just... First-playthrough-mutually-exclusive. On my second go, my warrior could be Champion just fine as soon as she hit 7. If that makes sense. Once it's unlocked, you can pick it up at any time you want, at any playthrough you want, even those two beasts.
Mind, I haven't actually tried it out so I don't even know if you can maybe play the situation and end up with both, but if they are indeed exclusive, it'd just be the first playthrough. Again, if that makes sense. :smallsmile:

New question, out of curiosity, has anyone tried giving Wynne Blood Mage at 14? If so, does she even comment on it or does she just keep being the normal drone in combat they all are? :smallbiggrin:

[AlterForm]

New question, out of curiosity, has anyone tried giving Wynne Blood Mage at 14? If so, does she even comment on it or does she just keep being the normal drone in combat they all are? :smallbiggrin:

Absolutely no reaction at all. Makes her a bit more long-lasting with pumping out the heals.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yes, but Zevox said otherwise.

[Aricandor]

Maybe the PC does something different then. I dunno. I just know I could pick Champion just fine second time around. Whether glitch or intentional I do not know. :smallsmile:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What version do you have?

[Arcanoi]

Bows don't really work at the moment without the Dex Fix. If you want to use a bow without using the Dex Fix, I suggest following Leliana's character quest as it nets you the best bow in the game that I've found.

Also has anyone figured out which smith to take the kryptonite meteoric ore to?

[Aricandor]

I'm pretty sure I have 1.01, unless it has decided to act up on me. :smallsmile:
And for PC. In case that was what you meant. Damn hour is late here. :smallbiggrin:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Zousha:
I don't have the DLC. What's the stats on Starfang? Unless it's basically "loleverythingina10-ftradiusdies", I'm betting Ageless is as good or better.

Also, I NEVER trust the guides when it comes to character builds. Ever. I did a few times in the past, and they never really worked out that well for me.

EDIT: There are no bows with enchantment slots that I am aware of. I've found some of the better bows, such as The Dark Moon, Falon'Din's Reach, and some others, and I've yet to find a way to make archery anything but a waste of space.

Starfang comes in two flavors. You can choose for it to be a longsword or greatsword, but I'm only including the Greatsword stats since that's what I'm planning on using:

+3 Strength
+2.5 Armor Penetration
+8 Attack
Requires: 38 Strength

3 Rune Slots

For those who are interested, here's the stats for the Longsword version:

+3 Dexterity
+3 Damage
+2.5 Armor Penetration

3 Rune Slots


As good as Ageless? Not as good? Better?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Bows don't really work at the moment without the Dex Fix. If you want to use a bow without using the Dex Fix, I suggest following Leliana's character quest as it nets you the best bow in the game that I've found.

Also has anyone figured out which smith to take the kryptonite meteoric ore to?

Take it to Mikhael Dryden after you've completed the main quest for the Warden's Peak DLC. He'll take the ore and turn make you your choice of a longsword or greatsword, both named Starfang.

[Zevox]

I must correct myself from earlier: I was wrong, Champion did carry over to my second game. I could have sworn I saw it was locked previously, but I just leveled up, and it's there.

Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Whew! For a minute there I thought I was in trouble!

[thorgrim29]

I think I bugged Leliana for some reason, I talked to her about the life of a bard once, and she was happy, but then I got killed by a random encounter, reloaded, and asked her about life in orlais instead and now I can't ask her about the bard thing. I even gave her her mother's flowers, niet. What do I do?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

This was brought up in the old thread, but I don't think it ever got addressed.
Is it possible for a dwarf character to become a Paragon?

[JadedDM]

This was brought up in the old thread, but I don't think it ever got addressed.
Is it possible for a dwarf character to become a Paragon?

Yes, but I am not sure how. It happens in the epilogue if certain criteria are met.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Any idea what those criteria may be?
EDIT: By the way, it looks like Wynne can't teach the Spirit Healer specialization after all. :smallconfused:

[Dienekes]

Absolutely no reaction at all. Makes her a bit more long-lasting with pumping out the heals.

Apparently they were originally planning on restricting NPCs from specializations
Wynne couldn't be a Blood Mage, Morrigan couldn't be a Spirit Healer, Alistair couldn't be a Reaver and so forth.

But after some disappointing testplaying with people who wanted to spec their NPCs as they wanted this was taken out.

[arguskos]

Zousha
Ok, that is probably better than Ageless, sadly. :smallannoyed: I dislike when DLC is just better than the normal game. Oh well. Thanks for the stats though.

[Zevox]

So, just curious, but how many nerd culture references did everyone notice in the game? I distinctly remember two that, for whatever reason, I found hilarious when I saw them. One from Star Wars ("Aren't you a little short for a guard?" when the queen exits the room she was held captive in wearing full guard armor) and one from Monty Python (one of the riddles from the Urn's sanctum involved the clue "a bird can carry it." The correct answer was "a tune." One of the options was "a coconut."). I'm wondering if there were others I missed.

Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Sten makes a Portal joke if you talk to him during the victory party.

"Where is the cake? I was told there would be cake. The cake is a lie."

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Zousha
Ok, that is probably better than Ageless, sadly. :smallannoyed: I dislike when DLC is just better than the normal game. Oh well. Thanks for the stats though.

They have to give you some incentive to buy the DLC's don't they?

[JadedDM]

So, just curious, but how many nerd culture references did everyone notice in the game? I'm wondering if there were others I missed.

Zevox

There's also a Superman reference, as well as a couple of Baldur's Gate references.

[Zevox]

Sten makes a Portal joke if you talk to him during the victory party.

"Where is the cake? I was told there would be cake. The cake is a lie."
Really? I did that, but don't remember that line. I never played that game, granted, but I know I'd have recognized the line anyway, what with the internet and all. Guess I made the wrong conversation choices or something. Pity.


They have to give you some incentive to buy the DLC's don't they?
One would expect that to be simply making the content worthwhile, not making it overpowered compared to the rest of the game.

Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The problem I think DLCs have is that they can't be as complex as expansion packs used to be. The DLCs I've seen from other games and this one seem to have very small plots that don't really have a connection with the main story. Expansion packs would have their own self-contained narrative that actually took some time to play through. If the length of the Warden's Peak thing was as long as one of the main quest segments I think it'd be more worth it.

DLCs are cheaper, but they also have very little character.

[Philistine]

The guide IS official. I always trust official things. They're official.

One problem with Official Game Guides is that, in order for them to be written, edited, printed, and shipped to meet the same street dates as the games they cover, the writing has to be done while the game is still in beta. Obviously, any changes made to the game after the guide is done will not appear in the guidebook, thus the notorious unreliability of said guidebooks. Online guides such as those posted at GameFAQs are generally more dependable, since they are based on the final version of the code rather than a months-old prototype of it.

A further problem, mostly confined to the "strategy" bits (like character builds, or tactics for fighting various opponents), is that the guides' writers really don't have time to sit down with the games and experiment, crunch numbers, and determine what actually works in the game. At best, such a guide will be based on the writer's offhand impressions from a hurried playthrough, fleshed out with some notes from the development team explaining how they intended things to work. Once again the advantage goes to fan-created online content, as fans are more likely to have (and be willing to spend) the time required to figure out which strategies are viable. Fan-created online guides can also be updated in response to feedback from other users, in contrast to a printed guidebook.

[Zevox]

There's also a Superman reference, as well as a couple of Baldur's Gate references.
Cool. Er, would you or anyone else who saw them care to explain what they were for those who, like me, didn't?

Zevox

[Faulty]

Superman reference:

Sometimes when traveling on the road, I think the most northern one that leads west from Denerim, you will have an encounter. You will see a cut scene of an older couple, a male and female, talking and talking about how "it's a boy" and how amazing it is that "he survived the impact" or whatever. They talk about how they're happy to finally have a child, and decide to take him back to the farm. This mirror's superman's background story. You then take control of your character again by a crator, and can walk down into it and loot some special metal which I assume can be fashioned into armour somehow.

Possible BG reference:

One of the loading screen tips is "When all else fails, go for the eyes" which may be a reference to Minsc and Boo for BG.

Can anyone explain why I hit level 12 but did not gain any attribute points when I leveled? Yet when Alistair hit 12 at the same time he did? Is this because, during the Circle of Magi quest where you enter the Fade, I found all the little things that boost your stats?

[Zevox]

Superman reference:

Sometimes when traveling on the road, I think the most northern one that leads west from Denerim, you will have an encounter. You will see a cut scene of an older couple, a male and female, talking and talking about how "it's a boy" and how amazing it is that "he survived the impact" or whatever. They talk about how they're happy to finally have a child, and decide to take him back to the farm. This mirror's superman's background story. You then take control of your character again by a crator, and can walk down into it and loot some special metal which I assume can be fashioned into armour somehow.
Huh, I never came across that. Cool. Hopefully I'll see it during my new run.


Possible BG reference:

One of the loading screen tips is "When all else fails, go for the eyes" which may be a reference to Minsc and Boo for BG.
That I did see, but having not played BG, I didn't know it was a reference. Neat.


Can anyone explain why I hit level 12 but did not gain any attribute points when I leveled? Yet when Alistair hit 12 at the same time he did?
No, that would likely be a bug of some sort. You should always gain attribute points when you level up.

Zevox

[Avilan the Grey]

The problem I think DLCs have is that they can't be as complex as expansion packs used to be. The DLCs I've seen from other games and this one seem to have very small plots that don't really have a connection with the main story. Expansion packs would have their own self-contained narrative that actually took some time to play through. If the length of the Warden's Peak thing was as long as one of the main quest segments I think it'd be more worth it.

DLCs are cheaper, but they also have very little character.

Who said they can't? Just because you buy them online and download them into the game? It is no different from buying a disc and installing the content into the game.

Fallout 3 has two that are rather big (Broken Steel and Point Lookout) and one of these also expands and furthers the main plot.

[king.com]

Superman reference:

Sometimes when traveling on the road, I think the most northern one that leads west from Denerim, you will have an encounter. You will see a cut scene of an older couple, a male and female, talking and talking about how "it's a boy" and how amazing it is that "he survived the impact" or whatever. They talk about how they're happy to finally have a child, and decide to take him back to the farm. This mirror's superman's background story. You then take control of your character again by a crator, and can walk down into it and loot some special metal which I assume can be fashioned into armour somehow.

Possible BG reference:

One of the loading screen tips is "When all else fails, go for the eyes" which may be a reference to Minsc and Boo for BG.

Can anyone explain why I hit level 12 but did not gain any attribute points when I leveled? Yet when Alistair hit 12 at the same time he did? Is this because, during the Circle of Magi quest where you enter the Fade, I found all the little things that boost your stats?

Would also like to point out the "Gather your party and venture forth" being a reference to baldurs gate most annoying announcer's "YOU MUST GATHER YOUR PARTY BEFORE VENTURING FORTH" whenever your party wasnt all bunched up when you needed to travel....

[Faulty]

That I did see, but having not played BG, I didn't know it was a reference. Neat.

Yeah. One character, Minsc, is a Ranger with a head injury that has left him a bit... 'eccentric.' One of his quick item slots is permanently taken up by a hamster named Boo, his "miniature giant space hamster" (I believe a Spelljammer reference). Some of his battle cries reference Boo, one of the most well known being "Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!"


Would also like to point out the "Gather your party and venture forth" being a reference to baldurs gate most annoying announcer's "YOU MUST GATHER YOUR PARTY BEFORE VENTURING FORTH" whenever your party wasnt all bunched up when you needed to travel....

I thought that was more a rehash than a reference.

[JadedDM]

There's also a woman at the inn in Denerim named "Edwina" which I'm pretty sure is a reference to the red wizard Edwin from Baldur's Gate.

Also, once my dog brought me a pair of 'pantaloons' which is also a reference, I believe.

[Grey Paladin]

Game guides are never made or even supervised by the company that actually made the game. Official or not they tend to be misinformed and wrong on a large number of counts.

EDIT: Archery is godly due to Shortbows - who now depend ONLY on Dexterity! you can pump ALL your points into DEX and end up doing crazy damage. Combined with Arrow of Slaying (THE most damaging Talent in the game. It often one-shots yellow and below for me) and the AoE bow attack archers are amazing and later on harder to hit than your tank (but a lot more squishy when they are hit)

[king.com]

I thought that was more a rehash than a reference.

No to me it wasnt, sitting in the Naskel Mines and every time i wanted to go to lower level having it replay 4-5 times because Minsc was stuck behind a mining cart :smallsigh:

[Thanatos 51-50]

*reads the link to Zousha's explanation of how to acquire specializations*
Aw, damn, so Reaver and Champion are mutually exclusive? Shoot.

Well, I guess that makes choosing specializations for my new warrior easier - Berserker + Reaver it is, since I want to go with different decisions this time around than I did the first, and can't do Champion if I do that (and have no interest in Templar). But it sucks that a couple of specializations are mutually exclusive like that. Limits your options.
Zevox

Not true!
RE: Specializations: Reaver & Champion
Urn of Sacred Ashes/Redcliffe spoilers herein
I've tested this out, as when you acquire a spec, the game tells you, regardless of whether you unlocked in in a prior play-through or not.
To Acquire Reaver, you must defile the Urn of Sacred Ashes. This is easy enough to do. HOWEVER, when speaking with the Cult of Andraste's Leader (Kolgrim, IIRC), mention that you need some ashes to cure Arl Eamon. He'll give you the okay to take a pinch before you start spillin' blood. Do so.
After you defile the Urn and fight through the necessary combat(s, potentially) talk to Kolgrim and claim your reward of Knowledge. (REAVER UNLOCKED!). Mosey on down to the defeated Arl after saving Redcliffe and heal him up. Go through the dialog tree to accept the reward wherein he procliams you all Champions of Redcliffe. (CHAMPION UNLOCKED!).

[arguskos]

I can't be bothered to find whoever said that to avoid issues with Reaver, you only have to NOT take Wynne, but that's a dirty lie. She'll confront you back at camp and walk away forever if you define the Urn, even though she wasn't there when you did it and you never mentioned it. :smallfrown:

So, if you want Reaver AND Wynne, get the former before you get the latter. That way, when you get her, she won't know you had anything to do with the Urn, and it's all good.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I can't be bothered to find whoever said that to avoid issues with Reaver, you only have to NOT take Wynne, but that's a dirty lie. She'll confront you back at camp and walk away forever if you define the Urn, even though she wasn't there when you did it and you never mentioned it. :smallfrown:

So, if you want Reaver AND Wynne, get the former before you get the latter. That way, when you get her, she won't know you had anything to do with the Urn, and it's all good.

It's the same issue with:
Leliana

[Trixie]

Starfang comes in two flavors. You can choose for it to be a longsword or greatsword, but I'm only including the Greatsword stats since that's what I'm planning on using:

+3 Strength
+2.5 Armor Penetration
+8 Attack
Requires: 38 Strength

3 Rune Slots

For those who are interested, here's the stats for the Longsword version:

+3 Dexterity
+3 Damage
+2.5 Armor Penetration

3 Rune Slots


As good as Ageless? Not as good? Better?

Um, why would you want to do that? THF <<< TWF, and while there are a lot of excellent two handers, you can count good one handers on lumberjack's fingers. Especially with KMS not being in the game :smalltongue:

And you said you want to have Alistair in Legion/Dragon plate - this is impossible. That is, I mean, it might be, but his shield specialization requires so much Dex, that if you do both you'll run out of points for Will/Con. Sadly, Blood Dragon armor is best for him.

Out of curiosity, does dex fix really make game so much harder? Someone complained above about Denerim thugs - they would be heavily affected by this.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Because Dual-wielding Rogues look awesome, here is a screenshot of my Rogue going through the special melee kill animation against the final boss.

http://social.bioware.com/da_game_screenshots/215000/214745/Screenshot20091111161843315.jpg

[Avilan the Grey]

And you said you want to have Alistair in Legion/Dragon plate - this is impossible. That is, I mean, it might be, but his shield specialization requires so much Dex, that if you do both you'll run out of points for Will/Con. Sadly, Blood Dragon armor is best for him.

I am keeping that one for myself thank you. I am a dual-wielder after all and needs what Dex I can get.

Right now Alistair is wearing the Warden plate set from the Tower DLC and is set to always activate shield wall.

He is programmed to basically tank, with a few extras (auto drink health potions, shield-bash anyone attacking me, shield bash anyone attacking Morrigan).

[Trixie]

Because Dual-wielding Rogues look awesome, here is a screenshot of my Rogue going through the special melee kill animation against the final boss.

http://social.bioware.com/da_game_screenshots/215000/214745/Screenshot20091111161843315.jpg

Which was exactly my point (TWF = Two Weapon Fighting) :smallsigh:

Archpaladin wants to try THF, which is decidedly inferior, and there are two NPCs that can fill that slow. There are no TWF NPCs.

After being a Mage in the first PT, I now have TWF Fighter in heaviest possible armor - and I know what I'm talking about :smalltongue:

Of course, it is his decision, but once he will see these crappy and unrealistic THF animations he will revise his opinion instantly :smallamused:

Incidentally, 4:3 screen? What? :smallconfused:


I am keeping that one for myself thank you. I am a dual-wielder after all and needs what Dex I can get.

Um, nope, 36 (or 38 as in my case, as I ended up with 37 and I like even numbers) and you don't need to put even a point more in there.


He is programmed to basically tank, with a few extras (auto drink health potions, shield-bash anyone attacking me, shield bash anyone attacking Morrigan).

I'll repeat - he still can't afford all shield talents and having 42/45 Str, unless you neglect his HP/Stamina - and then, he is nearly useless as a tank. Main character can afford that, but he has manuals and free 20+ stat points from Fade. :smallyuk:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Which was exactly my point (TWF = Two Weapon Fighting) :smallsigh:

Archpaladin wants to try TWF, which is decidedly inferior, and there are two NPCs that can fill that slow. There are no TWF NPCs.

After being a Mage in the first PT, I now have TWF Fighter in heaviest possible armor - and I know what I'm talking about :smalltongue:

Of course, it is his decision, but once he will see these crappy and unrealistic TWF animations he will revise his opinion instantly :smallamused:

Incidentally, 4:3 screen? What? :smallconfused:

This passage, it makes no sense.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Thantos, did you go throught the whole game not knowing you could expand the action bar (the thing you keep your talent abilities on)? :smalltongue:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Thantos, did you go throught the whole game not knowing you could expand the action bar (the thing you keep your talent abilities on)? :smalltongue:

This is the first I've learned of it. Not that I needed more space. Everything else I had was either passive or a stance I didn't use.

[Avilan the Grey]

Um, nope, 36 (or 38 as in my case, as I ended up with 37 and I like even numbers) and you don't need to put even a point more in there.
I'll repeat - he still can't afford all shield talents and having 42/45 Str, unless you neglect his HP/Stamina - and then, he is nearly useless as a tank. Main character can afford that, but he has manuals and free 20+ stat points from Fade. :smallyuk:

Alistair: He is not getting all shield talents. He is getting enough to be a good tank and a valued companion.

As for me... I mean right now. I have enough STR to wear the Blood Dragon plate. Now I am slowly pumping his DEX until I can use all TWF talents.

Besides, Über-optimizing is boring.

[Trixie]

This passage, it makes no sense.

Try now :smalltongue:


Thantos, did you go throught the whole game not knowing you could expand the action bar (the thing you keep your talent abilities on)? :smalltongue:

Well, if you have some kind of old, non-wide screen, there is not much space to put it on, right? :smallbiggrin:

A pity the bar cannot have two rows, though.

By the way - it always puzzled me who this is supposed to be:


http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/3/3d/Mage2.jpg

Wynne? But this character has elven ears and very prominent scar, so...? :smallconfused:

Also - dagger in hand, staff in the back and spellcasting on the same time :smalltongue:

[Comet]

Thantos, did you go throught the whole game not knowing you could expand the action bar (the thing you keep your talent abilities on)? :smalltongue:
OH SNAP! Why do I not read the manuals?

Moving right along, I found and equipped some new robes for Morrigan since I'm going to be keeping her in my party this time around. The Archon robe looks infinitely more attractive than the rag Morrigan wears as her default.

[Avilan the Grey]

OH SNAP! Why do I not read the manuals?

I have yet to read the manuals, but I just tested it and it worked when I started th egame first time (the end of the bar has the typical "drag here" shape).

[Zevox]

Would also like to point out the "Gather your party and venture forth" being a reference to baldurs gate most annoying announcer's "YOU MUST GATHER YOUR PARTY BEFORE VENTURING FORTH" whenever your party wasnt all bunched up when you needed to travel....
I don't think so, I've seen that line in numerous games before. Certainly Icewind Dale 2 and Neverwinter Nights (both 1 and 2 I think), and I think in one or both Knights of the Old Republic games, too. So it's by no means just a Baldur's Gate thing.

Zevox

[Thanatos 51-50]

Try now :smalltongue:

They're not crappy and unrealistic, just, well... Clunky. For some reason, my super-strong Qunari buddy has trouble whipping his blade through the killzone?

[Kish]

I don't think so, I've seen that line in numerous games before. Certainly Icewind Dale 2 and Neverwinter Nights (both 1 and 2 I think), and I think in one or both Knights of the Old Republic games, too. So it's by no means just a Baldur's Gate thing.

Zevox

They were all references to Baldur's Gate.

Yes, I'm perfectly serious. Long before any of those games came out, "You must gather your party before venturing forth" was infamous, from people complaining about it all over the Internet. It's possible that Baldur's Gate itself was a reference to a still older game, though I doubt it; it's not possible that those games just coincidentally used the exact same line.

"Gather your party and venture forth" isn't the exact same line, so it might not be a reference. But I don't think "not a reference" is the way to bet.

[Morty]

And my progress in the game is once again halted by an extremely hard battle. It happens with boring regularity, only this one - the one with Zathrian in Brecillian forest - I can't seem to see a way to beat.

[Trixie]

They're not crappy and unrealistic, just, well... Clunky. For some reason, my super-strong Qunari buddy has trouble whipping his blade through the killzone?

Yes, it is. These guys carry plate armor (weighting 20-45 kg) like nothing, yet swing two handed sword (that in reality was very well balanced and light - 3-6 kg max) just like it was 40 kg telephone pole, almost falling in the process. Skilled swordsman can swing twohander just as well as one hander, the second hand is there mainly for strength/balance. In game, it looks ridiculous.


Yes, I'm perfectly serious. Long before any of those games came out, "You must gather your party before venturing forth" was infamous, from people complaining about it all over the Internet. It's possible that Baldur's Gate itself was a reference to a still older game, though I doubt it; it's not possible that those games just coincidentally used the exact same line.

"Gather your party and venture forth" isn't the exact same line, so it might not be a reference. But I don't think "not a reference" is the way to bet.

The line is "Do you wish to gather your party and venture forth?" - which is even bigger jab, as they don't "force" you to do anything, like BG did :smallbiggrin:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Superman reference:

Sometimes when traveling on the road, I think the most northern one that leads west from Denerim, you will have an encounter. You will see a cut scene of an older couple, a male and female, talking and talking about how "it's a boy" and how amazing it is that "he survived the impact" or whatever. They talk about how they're happy to finally have a child, and decide to take him back to the farm. This mirror's superman's background story. You then take control of your character again by a crator, and can walk down into it and loot some special metal which I assume can be fashioned into armour somehow.
Not armor. A sword. You have to take the metal to Mikhael Dryden at Soldier's Peak to have it made into either the Starfang longsword or the Starfang greatsword. The random encounter where you get the starmetal only occurs if you have the Warden's Keep DLC.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Also, here's an interesting reference, found in a codex entry of Dwarven poetry:
Do you like fried mush and nug?

I do not like them Mister Klug
I do not like fried mush and nug

Would you eat them on a rug?
If you eat, you'll get a hug!

I would not eat them on a rug
From you I would not want a hug

Then would you drink them from a jug?
Come on, come on, give them a chug!

I would not drink them from a jug
I'd rather eat a slimy slug

Would you eat them with a bug?
Would you share them with a thug?

I would not share them with a thug
I would not eat them with a bug
Not for a hug
Not on a rug
From a jug
I will not chug
Come on, come on, now mister Klug
Are you on some kind of drug?

Eat them in this hole I dug
Eat them, eat them, don't just shrug

I've had it, had it, Mister Klug!
Down, into that hole you dug
Down with the thug
And the slug
And the bug

-- By the Paragon Seuss, 2:12 Glory.

[warty goblin]

Yes, it is. These guys carry plate armor (weighting 20-45 kg) like nothing, yet swing two handed sword (that in reality was very well balanced and light - 3-6 kg max) just like it was 40 kg telephone pole, almost falling in the process. Skilled swordsman can swing twohander just as well as one hander, the second hand is there mainly for strength/balance. In game, it looks ridiculous.

That's one hell of a panalopy to weigh in at 45kg. Most maxed out at between 20 or 30kg at the outside.

It also depends what sort of two hander one is talking about. The standard European longsword could certainly be weilded with two hands, but did not have to be. One of the big late 15th century six foot dopplehanders is a different matter, and I'd be very surprised it one could effectively be used with only one hand. Without the second hand to produce leverage, it seems like an enemy would have a trivial job of completely controlling your blade, and recovering said blade would be quite a job.

A dopplehander would also be a very odd choice for an adventurer, since they were really only used for breaking pike formations, something that probably doesn't pop up in a lot of dungeons. A Dane or Viking axe could make sense, as those were quite handy, pretty cheap, and at least as capable of hacking people up if you really needed to use a two hander. But really, the problem with most hand weapons isn't that they don't do plenty of damage, but that they struggle with armor or have puny reach.

[Warpfire]

Umm...is there a reason I can barely even make a dent in

Flemeth's

health before TPK? Like is there a strategy I need to follow or is it likely I just need to level up/get better stuff?

[Trixie]

That's one hell of a panalopy to weigh in at 45kg. Most maxed out at between 20 or 30kg at the outside.

Indeed, but take into account that these armors were made for people who rarely clocked over 170 cm. Sten, however, has well over 190 cm and build to match - and the armors in the game have a lot of pointless spikes, big shoulderpads, and extra plates in random places.


It also depends what sort of two hander one is talking about. The standard European longsword could certainly be weilded with two hands, but did not have to be.

Um, the one I'm familiar with could not. These had short grip and were designed to be used with shield. You're probably thinking of their younger cousin, the bastard sword (or "one-and-a-half-hander", sword that could be used in either way).


One of the big late 15th century six foot dopplehanders is a different matter, and I'd be very surprised it one could effectively be used with only one hand. Without the second hand to produce leverage, it seems like an enemy would have a trivial job of completely controlling your blade, and recovering said blade would be quite a job.

Pssst! It's called 'Bidenhänder' (Both-hand[ed]). You're probably thinking about 'Doppelsöldner' (Double Salary), that is, veteran footman who was armed with two-hander and who was paid double pay of normal soldier, due to rather critical job of handling the heavies assaults.

And yes, slashing effectively with one hand would be difficult (hence 'the other hand for strength') - but if you wanted to use its primary advantage, reach, stabbing someone would be just as easy as with one-hander (and with both hands, you could easily punch through all but the heaviest armors).

Still, largest manufactured sword (210 cm long) still weighted 6.5 kg - and it was well balanced, making even one hand use possible (but not recommended if you wanted full potential).


A dopplehander would also be a very odd choice for an adventurer, since they were really only used for breaking pike formations, something that probably doesn't pop up in a lot of dungeons. A Dane or Viking axe could make sense, as those were quite handy, pretty cheap, and at least as capable of hacking people up if you really needed to use a two hander. But really, the problem with most hand weapons isn't that they don't do plenty of damage, but that they struggle with armor or have puny reach.

Um, no. It has something very important in the individual fights - reach. Sure, in tight dungeon or forest you couldn't really use it, but in the field, it would be a big advantage.

As for axe - well, to be honest, good armor made axes (except for two handed ones) obsolete, and they had nowhere near the reach and killing potential of a sword. Vikings used it mainly as a tool, and those who could afford a sword used it in battle instead.

A pity that no RPG game set in middle ages feature a warhammer variant with real killing potential - Clawed Warhammer (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Polish_Horseman%27s_picks_from_XVII_century.PNG) (something that easily pierced any practical armor in history) :smallamused:

Or, even better, Clawed Warhammer with Pistol build in (http://dawneuzbrojenie.republika.pl/cz37c.jpg) :xykon:

[Muz]

Anyways, my bow wielding fantasies don't generally invovle shooting Joe E. McMinion fifteen times. Did Legolas have to do that? No, he did not. I would like my arrows to kill things, thank you very much.


Neither did Gimli have to axe an orc 10 times or Aragorn have to slash another orc 10 times. Just sayin'. Things seem to work along a nice Baldur's Gate-ish level for me, which as far as I'm concerned is a good thing. Plus DA does let you one-shot kill things (I had Leliana sniping abominations just fine), which BG2 didn't let happen.

So I'm fine with it.

[Archangel Yuki]

And my progress in the game is once again halted by an extremely hard battle. It happens with boring regularity, only this one - the one with Zathrian in Brecillian forest - I can't seem to see a way to beat.

What kind of party are you running? I found this fight trivialy easy, nothing near a challenge. I had more of an issue with the Dragon in the ruins.

Alstair to gather up his summons while Morgainne spams status effect spells and uses the healing taticts i have laid out, while my melee dps run in and mess him up, occasionally switch to my rogue to stun any long casts he has.
That seemed to work for me.

[Name_Here]

I don't think so, I've seen that line in numerous games before. Certainly Icewind Dale 2 and Neverwinter Nights (both 1 and 2 I think), and I think in one or both Knights of the Old Republic games, too. So it's by no means just a Baldur's Gate thing.

Zevox

So more of a general Bioware thing. Don't think it really counts as an allusion when it's your company's style.

[Morty]

What kind of party are you running? I found this fight trivialy easy, nothing near a challenge. I had more of an issue with the Dragon in the ruins.

Alstair to gather up his summons while Morgainne spams status effect spells and uses the healing taticts i have laid out, while my melee dps run in and mess him up, occasionally switch to my rogue to stun any long casts he has.
That seemed to work for me.

I finally managed to win, though with two party members on the floor. I had my Mage PC, Morrigan, Sten and Zevran.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I gotta wonder why no medieval European style RPG has ever bothered with historically accurate-looking weapons and armor.

[Grey Paladin]

There are enough points for Al to wear any armor in the game, if you invest heavily in Strength. Dexterity generally beats Constitution in defense against anything that is not magic if you pump it high enough (which you should as anyone beside a 2H Fighter). With the armor he will be a lot more tanky but will die a lot more easily to Magic. Its a choice.

As to the battles themselves, I agree the 2H weapon animation is ridiculous (IRL a heavy weapon is a useless one) but perhaps the weapons themselves have a fantastic weight? if you read the Mabari entry it states that a single dog was known to break a pike square; You fight things a lot bigger, tougher, and scarier than dogs so if you had supernatural strength you'd want the heaviest sword you can get your hands on.

[Archangel Yuki]

There are enough points for Al to wear any armor in the game, if you invest heavily in Strength. Dexterity generally beats Constitution in defense against anything that is not magic if you pump it high enough (which you should as anyone beside a 2H Fighter). With the armor he will be a lot more tanky but will die a lot more easily to Magic. Its a choice.


I'll argue against this. I pumped almost everything into Con and only used enough Dex to get shield mastery. I can't even use some the the better armors in the game but Al has enough defence and health through Con that he can solo Revenents.

[Morty]

I gotta wonder why no medieval European style RPG has ever bothered with historically accurate-looking weapons and armor.

Because it isn't "cool" enough for a lot of people.

[Dienekes]

It also depends what sort of two hander one is talking about. The standard European longsword could certainly be weilded with two hands, but did not have to be. One of the big late 15th century six foot dopplehanders is a different matter, and I'd be very surprised it one could effectively be used with only one hand. Without the second hand to produce leverage, it seems like an enemy would have a trivial job of completely controlling your blade, and recovering said blade would be quite a job.

A dopplehander would also be a very odd choice for an adventurer, since they were really only used for breaking pike formations, something that probably doesn't pop up in a lot of dungeons. A Dane or Viking axe could make sense, as those were quite handy, pretty cheap, and at least as capable of hacking people up if you really needed to use a two hander. But really, the problem with most hand weapons isn't that they don't do plenty of damage, but that they struggle with armor or have puny reach.

Actually having used and seen used by someone skilled in the bidenhander or zweihander, it's really not that bad. Wielding it one handed is hard for me grant you, but the other guy was able to do it to adjust swings and so forth.

Also it was fun watching him completely crush an opponent with it, damn that was funny.

Also of note, they weren't that much bigger than the Scottish Claymore which had a much wider usage than to just destroy pikes.

[warty goblin]

I gotta wonder why no medieval European style RPG has ever bothered with historically accurate-looking weapons and armor.

Some do, to some extent. Mount and Blade is more of an action game than a traditional RPG, but has fairly realistic art design. Some of the swords are a bit bigger than they would be in reality, and the armor meshes have clipping issues, but given the engine they're working with it's a pretty sterling job.

I'm probably 20-30 hours into Drakensang: The Dark Eye, which is very traditional and to date most of the armor designs have been more or less plausible. I'm also level 6, and have found exactly one magical item. Hell my party's two tanks still have a significant amount of outdate bronze armor looted from tombs because I've been unable to find either steel pieces or the recipes to forge them myself. The bronze/steel mismatch suit my Amazon is wearing at the moment suffers. A high powered setting it ain't.

The Witcher's weapon and armor design is also pretty realistic. Geralt's default steel sword might be a little too long (although he does usually wield it at least partially two handed), but other than that the halberds look like halberds and the swords like swords.

A trip through the Musee de Armee these games are not, but they're close enough that I don't find any of the equipment particularly jarring.



As to why more games don't try to have realistic armor, I suspect a lot of developers are hung up that this would make the game world look 'boring.' This is stupid, Medieval armor was often quite decorated, either with etching, paint or else colorful tabbards hung over the top. Some really awesome stuff could be done with letting the player choose their own designs and colors. If you really wanted to go to town, you could earn different symbols based on your deeds, and decorating your armor with them could give you various bonuses- either a moral penalty/boost to your enemies/allies or else the occasional unique dialog tree when Lady Soandso notices that you slew the Bridge Troll. It wouldn't have to be huge, but stuff like that could really bring your gear to life.

But no, instead we get +3 Dragonbone Armor of Frost, which replaces our +1 Fiery Steel Armor. Way to suck all the romance out of things.

I really have very little idea why more games don't have realistically designed weapons. I've never found any design in a game that looks nearly as lethal as a real sword or axe once you even get an inkling for the injuries such weapons can produce. It doesn't take spikes sticking out everywhere to make a sword a ridiculously scary weapon, all it takes is a single keen edge and good point.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Come to think of it, I take issue with some of the standard Ferelden weaponry and army composition. No one uses polearms or similar weapons. Wouldn't these be advantageous at keeping the darkspawn at a distance, ergo reducing the number of casualties? A spear wall or something could have broken the darkspawn charge pretty well, I think.

Does Ferelden have NO cavalry to speak of? I know in the Stolen Throne both armies used horses, so we know they're there. So how come there aren't any in the game? I, for one, think battles like Ostagar probably would have been different had the Fereldens used cavalry in addition to their infantry. Granted that may be because the scene where the Riders of Rohan come to save the day in The Return of the King is one of my favorite moments in cinematic history, but still, if the Fereldens have cavalry, they should use it. I'm not asking that the characters be given horses to ride, but it would make sense to have cavalry for large scale battles if they have them. The Fereldens seem to be gimping themselves by relying solely on their infantry.

[Morty]

The reason might be simply that they didn't want the hassle that'd come with adding mounted combat. And if they had shown cavalry in cutscenes, someone would have asked: "Why can't the player ride a horse"?


The Witcher's weapon and armor design is also pretty realistic. Geralt's default steel sword might be a little too long (although he does usually wield it at least partially two handed), but other than that the halberds look like halberds and the swords like swords.

Geralt does kill people in full plate by slashing at them, though. But the question's about weapons, so I guess unrealistic combat is another matter.

[warty goblin]

Come to think of it, I take issue with some of the standard Ferelden weaponry and army composition. No one uses polearms or similar weapons. Wouldn't these be advantageous at keeping the darkspawn at a distance, ergo reducing the number of casualties? A spear wall or something could have broken the darkspawn charge pretty well, I think.

It's a terribly unflattering truth, but the spear other polearms were, until the advent of effective firearms, by far the most popular weapon in history. It's cheap to make, and a moron can become very deadly with it very quickly.

So yeah, a wild charge of sword wielding enemies should break on a shield wall of spear armed people like, to quote Gimli 'water on rock.' But then that would require the humans to fighting in a very much denser formation than the trailers show them using. And I mean a very dense formation. Chronicles of the Battle of Hastings say that men in the Saxon shield wall died standing up because the press was so close that there wasn't room for them to fall.

Of course the Darkspawn should really have figured out that the way to break such a line is by hitting it with a shield wall of their own and then fighting really, really hard. And everybody and their corrupted subterrainian uncle should be fighting with polearms.

Does Ferelden have NO cavalry to speak of? I know in the Stolen Throne both armies used horses, so we know they're there. So how come there aren't any in the game? I, for one, think battles like Ostagar probably would have been different had the Fereldens used cavalry in addition to their infantry.


Cavalry is a very potent weapon for hitting enemy flanks, the backs of formations, and lighter elements. It rather sucks for direct breakthroughs against heavy infantry because horses are really big targets and don't fare particularly well when somebody gets the smart idea of cutting their legs off. But given that the Darkspawn just sort of formed up and charged, a force of heavy cavalry should run roughshod over them. The way to stop cavalry isn't a blind infantry rush, but holding a formation.
[QUOTE]
Granted that may be because the scene where the Riders of Rohan come to save the day in The Return of the King is one of my favorite moments in cinematic history, but still, if the Fereldens have cavalry, they should use it. I'm not asking that the characters be given horses to ride, but it would make sense to have cavalry for large scale battles if they have them. The Fereldens seem to be gimping themselves by relying solely on their infantry.

As I said before, cavalry is really best employed to hit the enemy where they are weak, because the infantry is a much stronger force for slugging it out directly.

Also horses are a real bitch to animate right I'll bet.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've been told that horses are the most difficult thing to draw ever, so there may be some truth to that.

[Morty]

Not only to draw but as I said, mounted combat is notorious for being hard to balance, and if they added cavalry to Ferelden's armies they'd have no excuse for not giving that option to the player.

[warty goblin]

Geralt does kill people in full plate by slashing at them, though. But the question's about weapons, so I guess unrealistic combat is another matter.
Oh of course, but basically nobody ever gets that right. Even Mount and Blade, which has a fairly good armor model, allows you to slash people to death with a sword even if they're clad head to foot in steel. Takes freaking forever, but it works.

Modeling realistic combat between heavily armored enemies would be very hard, and honestly I have no idea how to make a game of it without combat basically being one big QTE- you hammer on a dude with a variety of attacks until they're disabled, then stab them in some unarmored place.

Even modeling realistic combat between unarmored enemies would be hard. I mean you let one stray dude get through to your mage, and next thing you know there's mage-parts covering the walls.

No, I think this is a case where some abstraction is a good thing.

[Morty]

Oh of course, but basically nobody ever gets that right. Even Mount and Blade, which has a fairly good armor model, allows you to slash people to death with a sword even if they're clad head to foot in steel. Takes freaking forever, but it works.

Modeling realistic combat between heavily armored enemies would be very hard, and honestly I have no idea how to make a game of it without combat basically being one big QTE- you hammer on a dude with a variety of attacks until they're disabled, then stab them in some unarmored place.

Even modeling realistic combat between unarmored enemies would be hard. I mean you let one stray dude get through to your mage, and next thing you know there's mage-parts covering the walls.

No, I think this is a case where some abstraction is a good thing.

I didn't say it was a bad thing, merely that combat in The Witcher isn't entirely realistic. I agree that 100% realism can make for good games, but not necessarily in case of cRPGs.
And on a less off-topic note, I think that the number of hard fights Dragon Age throws at you is a little bit too large. I mean, I can't go from one place to another in Denerim without being attacked by a large number of strong thugs.

[Guancyto]

Ahaha, Denerim was brutal. I went there early because I figured "so many quests!"

I think it doesn't scale to your level, possibly because the the actual plot events aren't supposed to happen until you've found all the Jedi Masters Star Maps Plague Cure Components Treaty-Bound Armies. So the random street gangs there are tougher than the boss fights elsewhere. ****ing Scattershot mooks.

So very profitable, though. Walked in with seven gold and walked out with seventy.

[warty goblin]

I didn't say it was a bad thing, merely that combat in The Witcher isn't entirely realistic. I agree that 100% realism can make for good games, but not necessarily in case of cRPGs.
And on a less off-topic note, I think that the number of hard fights Dragon Age throws at you is a little bit too large. I mean, I can't go from one place to another in Denerim without being attacked by a large number of strong thugs.

Yeah, I agree. I mean I'd probably buy and play any game with the balls to do even a mostly realistic melee combat system, but only because I'm a glutton for suffering. Fortunately having a realistic art style goes a very long way towards making me buy into the world, even if I still end up slashing at dudes in full armor. After all, unrealistic hitpoint systems are a standard of an aweful lot of games, and is a pretty reasonable abstraction.

Also, that's longstanding RPG tradition. At least 25% of any human population must be employed as bandits. Fortunately these people apparently spontaniously enter into being, and never have relatives that could possibly object to you cutting them down by the score.

[Trixie]

Because it isn't "cool" enough for a lot of people.

Let me give you an example of plate armor from century similar to game Ferelden:


http://www.szlachta.org/obraz/husarz.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Zbroje_husarskie.JPG/459px-Zbroje_husarskie.JPG

Boring and unattractive, right? :smalltongue:


Not only to draw but as I said, mounted combat is notorious for being hard to balance, and if they added cavalry to Ferelden's armies they'd have no excuse for not giving that option to the player.

The only time we get to use it is in burning city, though.


Does Ferelden have NO cavalry to speak of? I know in the Stolen Throne both armies used horses, so we know they're there. So how come there aren't any in the game? I, for one, think battles like Ostagar probably would have been different had the Fereldens used cavalry in addition to their infantry.

It might be a "bit" hard to use against subterranean enemies?


So yeah, a wild charge of sword wielding enemies should break on a shield wall of spear armed people like, to quote Gimli 'water on rock.' But then that would require the humans to fighting in a very much denser formation than the trailers show them using. And I mean a very dense formation. Chronicles of the Battle of Hastings say that men in the Saxon shield wall died standing up because the press was so close that there wasn't room for them to fall.

There is a "slight" problem of such dense formations being very vulnerable to archers/crossbows, sprays of tainted blood, and being completely (relatively) immobile formations, which would allow enemy skirmishers to surround and hit them from the rear, unless deployed in square. And, we all know what a couple of fireballs would do, then. Or that big dragon dumping dragon breath on it.

[Morty]

Let me give you an example of plate armor from century similar to game Ferelden:


http://www.szlachta.org/obraz/husarz.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Zbroje_husarskie.JPG/459px-Zbroje_husarskie.JPG

Boring and unattractive, right? :smalltongue:


Hey, I don't claim that real-world armor is boring and unattractive. Tell it to the people who do.:smalltongue:
And besides, there's controversy as to whether the wings were purely ceremonial or not.

[Grey Paladin]

Warty: Mortal Online might be up your alley. While not perfect most people go down in 5-6 hits when fully armored, and combat is pretty similar to Mount&Blade but more detailed with hit locations and injuries.

[warty goblin]

Let me give you an example of plate armor from century similar to game Ferelden:


http://www.szlachta.org/obraz/husarz.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Zbroje_husarskie.JPG/459px-Zbroje_husarskie.JPG

Boring and unattractive, right? :smalltongue:

I think I need to change my pants.


There is a "slight" problem of such dense formations being very vulnerable to archers/crossbows, sprays of tainted blood, and being completely (relatively) immobile formations, which would allow enemy skirmishers to surround and hit them from the rear, unless deployed in square. And, we all know what a couple of fireballs would do, then. Or that big dragon dumping dragon breath on it.
Dense formations are not particularly vulnerable to arrows, so long as everyone involved has shields, or sufficiently advanced armor, because the shields of the front rank will block most arrows fired directly at the formation, while the helmets, bodyarmor and shields of ranks farther back will stop any arrows fired on plunging trajectories.

As for movement, that is a problem, (although the record indicates that the Athenian phalanxes charged the better part of a mile into the Persian lines at Marathon, and Athenians were hardly known for the skill of their Hoplites) but at least in the battle shown in the trailers the Darkspawn are charging the human position. The humans don't need to move, they need to hold a position.

Fireballs would present a serious problem, but they'd also present a major problem for an open formation because it would still get holes burned in it. Really, you'll need a wizard to counter a wizard, but that's nothing new. Same with the dragon really. Yes being in a tight formation will allow them to cook a whole lot of your soldiers, but it's not like those in loose formations will really fair much better against an enemy with two neurons to rub together- complete air superiority is still complete air superiority after all.

[Arcanoi]

Well, there's a couple things to consider about military tactics the armies of Ferelden could field against the Darkspawn.

1. If they were to operate in tight shield/shield&spear walls, they'd have the issue of the Darkspawn flanking them with Shrieks and Ogres. Pike walls might be able to handle Ogres, but would break from Shrieks.

Pike walls only really came into their own as effective means of combat with the invent of the rifle, which disregarded armor and shields and meant that the Pikeman's relative defenselessness against arrows (No shield, and that pike is damn heavy, so very little, if any, armor) was moot anyway.

2. If they were to use the above strategy, they'd also have to deal with mirrored tactics, and it seems, judging from Duncan's comments when you meet the King at the beginning of the Ostagar Arc, that Hurlocks are a match for, if not more effective than most human soldiers.


It's mentioned by Riordan that the Orlesian Wardens have an auxiliary cavalry force of 2000 men maintained by the Wardens themselves.

[Trixie]

By the way, have you discussed this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiE1_0nQqGU)?

Heh, that is a really badass Grey Warden :smallamused:

And that's how Shield Bash should look like :smallbiggrin:

[warty goblin]

Well, there's a couple things to consider about military tactics the armies of Ferelden could field against the Darkspawn.

1. If they were to operate in tight shield/shield&spear walls, they'd have the issue of the Darkspawn flanking them with Shrieks and Ogres. Pike walls might be able to handle Ogres, but would break from Shrieks.

Pike walls only really came into their own as effective means of combat with the invent of the rifle, which disregarded armor and shields and meant that the Pikeman's relative defenselessness against arrows (No shield, and that pike is damn heavy, so very little, if any, armor) was moot anyway.

Right, pike walls were a late invention. Shield walls of soldiers armed with spears have been around since, oh, 400BC or so? Even if you take away the spears for some reason, a close formation has a lot of advantages over a less tight one when it comes to smashing guys to death. Ogres are big and ugly, but if they'll break a tight formation, they'll go right through a loose one like a .223NATO round through tissue paper. As for flanking, that's what guys guarding your flanks are for, and they're nearly as large a problem with an open formation.


2. If they were to use the above strategy, they'd also have to deal with mirrored tactics, and it seems, judging from Duncan's comments when you meet the King at the beginning of the Ostagar Arc, that Hurlocks are a match for, if not more effective than most human soldiers.
So instead they fight in a manner that devolves into a lot of individual duels with superior soldiers who probably outnumber them as well? That's some very...advanced tactics right there.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's the tactical issue I have. The Stolen Throne was vague enough so one couldn't comment too much on the tactics, but in the game, we're shown the tactics, and if the tactics of Ferelden's army there are indicative of their tactical prowess overall, they've got a lot to learn.

Warty Goblin is exactly right. The general tactics in the large scale battles we see in the game are to rush the enemy and then it's basically every one for his or herself, with each soldier basically picking a darkspawn to duel with until one of them dies.

I don't think any real-world civilization has ever used those kinds of tactics. Not even Japan where duels between samurai were the "in" thing.

[Grey Paladin]

The reason the Romans were able to dominate was mainly because of their superior formations and discipline. It was not at all uncommon to see barbarian armies just charging at each other and Fereldan is described as primitive and behind the times when compared to the rest of the world. I'd say their bad tactics are in character.

Though I doubt they intended the tactics to look lame and just went with rule of cool due to lack of writers learned in military lore.

[thorgrim29]

By the way, have you discussed this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiE1_0nQqGU)?

Heh, that is a really badass Grey Warden :smallamused:

And that's how Shield Bash should look like :smallbiggrin:

Dayum, so he is

[warty goblin]

It should be noted that there are some advantages to the pitched charge. It's scary as hell to stand up to, and if you can break an enemy's line, you're in pretty good shape. If you can't, you are basically screwed.

As I recall, the Gauls favored such head-on rush tactics, and were quite successful with them for some time- they managed to sack both Delphi and Rome after all. I suspect the problem is that as time passed, the military sophistication of those powers that favored more organized fighting increased, along with their equipment. There's only so much sophistication you can get with "CHAARRGE!", and at some point the advanced tactics of supporting archers and skirmishers, short counter charges to break up the enemy, and flexible formations capable of rotating the front lines out of combat to push fresh soldiers forward and so forth simply surpassed the headlong momentum of the 'charge 'em' strategy.

It's also worth noting that even in the so-called 'Dark Ages' headlong rushes were less than the ideal tactic. The Vikings, not generally considered the most subtle or organized of peoples fought in shield walls, and although I don't know for certain I suspect such tactics were similar across the rest of Europe as well.

[warty goblin]

I missed about half of this post, so rather than do my stat homework, I'm going to respond to it.

Indeed, but take into account that these armors were made for people who rarely clocked over 170 cm. Sten, however, has well over 190 cm and build to match - and the armors in the game have a lot of pointless spikes, big shoulderpads, and extra plates in random places.

This is a valid point. Assuming that you can find an armorer anywhere who knows his ass from a hole in the ground however, you should be able to find armor even for a really tall guy weighing in under 40kg.


Um, the one I'm familiar with could not. These had short grip and were designed to be used with shield. You're probably thinking of their younger cousin, the bastard sword (or "one-and-a-half-hander", sword that could be used in either way).
All I know is that the German Tallhoffer technique involves a sword that can be used with either one or both hands, and is considered a longsword style.


Pssst! It's called 'Bidenhänder' (Both-hand[ed]). You're probably thinking about 'Doppelsöldner' (Double Salary), that is, veteran footman who was armed with two-hander and who was paid double pay of normal soldier, due to rather critical job of handling the heavies assaults.
I've certainly seen Doppelhander used.


And yes, slashing effectively with one hand would be difficult (hence 'the other hand for strength') - but if you wanted to use its primary advantage, reach, stabbing someone would be just as easy as with one-hander (and with both hands, you could easily punch through all but the heaviest armors).
It's not the ability to move the sword that I doubt, it's the ability to keep the enemy from controlling the sword that concerns me. It strikes me that a good parry of weak to strong (as advised by at least one German arms manual) would allow the defender a truly amazing leverage advantage over the attack.


Still, largest manufactured sword (210 cm long) still weighted 6.5 kg - and it was well balanced, making even one hand use possible (but not recommended if you wanted full potential).
I recall discussion over that weapon being intended as a parade piece, and not an actual combat blade.


Um, no. It has something very important in the individual fights - reach. Sure, in tight dungeon or forest you couldn't really use it, but in the field, it would be a big advantage.
I don't think I've ever denied the reach advantage of a longer weapon.


As for axe - well, to be honest, good armor made axes (except for two handed ones) obsolete, and they had nowhere near the reach and killing potential of a sword. Vikings used it mainly as a tool, and those who could afford a sword used it in battle instead.
The Dane axe was the chosen weapon of Saxon Housecarls I believe, who would certainly have been able to afford a sword since they were professional full time warriors.

It's also worth noting the continued use of one handed war axes and the importance of halberds and poleaxes throughout the Medieval era. My understanding is that axes are quite effective against even advanced armor types. Although edged like a sword, an axe will have a center of gravity much closer to the striking edge, and thus in effect is not dissimilar to a mace in terms of armor crumpling ability. Note for example the horseman's axe (http://www.myarmoury.com/review_aa_haxe.html), which apparently didn't really take off as a weapon until after the advent of high quality and widespread plate armor. Note the sharply curved blade, which I imagine would result in a very small striking surface for very high pressures, but still allow for wider cuts against a less well armored adversary.


A pity that no RPG game set in middle ages feature a warhammer variant with real killing potential - Clawed Warhammer (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Polish_Horseman%27s_picks_from_XVII_century.PNG) (something that easily pierced any practical armor in history) :smallamused:
Or, even better, Clawed Warhammer with Pistol build in (http://dawneuzbrojenie.republika.pl/cz37c.jpg) :xykon:
It's a well known fact that only dwarves use axes and hammers, because...well Gimli used an axe, right?

[Dienekes]

Pike walls only really came into their own as effective means of combat with the invent of the rifle, which disregarded armor and shields and meant that the Pikeman's relative defenselessness against arrows (No shield, and that pike is damn heavy, so very little, if any, armor) was moot anyway.

I think Alexander the Great, the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians would all like a word with you. All of which stood up to cavalry rather consistently, and the Macedonian phalanx sarissa's were used with a shield and were roughly pike length.

However that is a brutally accurate assessment of the Chinese. After the Warring States period the Chinese strategy became all cavalry rush all the time. Especially because they never used a pike. Just a normal spear and maybe a shield.

The loss of tactics in Chinese military history makes a historian cry.

[Gralamin]

Now that I finally have my main computer back, I can play Dragon Age on the PC, as its meant to be played. :smallcool: For a while there I was using the XBOX, which, while not bad, isn't ideal.
Also, now I can mod. *Goes to get the toolset*

[Faulty]

I don't think so, I've seen that line in numerous games before. Certainly Icewind Dale 2 and Neverwinter Nights (both 1 and 2 I think), and I think in one or both Knights of the Old Republic games, too. So it's by no means just a Baldur's Gate thing.

Zevox

By BG preceded NWN and KotOR, and was made by the same company.


Anyway, I think that thing where I leveled without gaining attributes was a glitch in an entirely different way. When I finished the Arl of Redcliffe quest, the experience supposedly made both myself and Alistair level up. The only thing is... it didn't give me enough exp to level up. Yet it still said I leveled up. I was level 12 at the time. I hit level up, get no attributes but still get a new ability, and when I hit play, I'm still level 12, and my exp bar is still 2000 or so away from 13, yet I have the ability I got.

Not that I'm complaining.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Any more word on...
...dwarven characters becoming Paragons?

[Faulty]

Do any characters leave your party if you become a Blood Mage?

[Myatar_Panwar]

Any more word on...
...dwarven characters becoming Paragons?

It happens. At least for Dwarven Nobles.

[king.com]

Do any characters leave your party if you become a Blood Mage?

In my 2 mage playthroughs nothing has happened to me.

[Zevox]

Do any characters leave your party if you become a Blood Mage?
No, though apparently other actions can cause at least Leliana and Wynn to leave.

Zevox

[Faulty]

No, though apparently other actions can cause at least Leliana and Wynn to leave.

Zevox

I believe they leave if you become a Reaver.

By the way, I have a question about Morrigan's personal quest. I gave her the grimoire and everything, but I don't know how to advance it from there. Flemmeth is a dragon, right? I just had so much fun killing the high dragon on the mountain top that I'm itching for another equally epic fight.

[Trixie]

Also - to anyone wishing to use Starfang - I'm trying to trigger that damned encounter all the time, taking wide detours, and so far I ran out of ecounters :smallsigh:

Seriously, I've seen a few weird ones, but not that, and last 10 travels were encounter free. :smallannoyed:

[Zevox]

I believe they leave if you become a ...
No, becoming that specialization has nothing to do with it. What you're thinking of is if you work with the Cult on the mountain and add their blood to the Urn of Sacred Ashes. That's how you unlock Reaver, but it's that action which sets Leliana and Wynn off, not becoming a Reaver.


By the way, I have a question about Morrigan's personal quest. I ...
Just wait a while, and she'll tell you what she's learned once she finishes reading the grimoire. After that matters with Flemeth will unfold. And I don't think Flemeth is actually a Dragon, she's just a shape-shifter who knows how to assume Dragon form. Though I could be wrong, I suppose.

Zevox

[Faulty]

Oh, one more query: is it true that the Chasind Great Maul is the best 2H weapon in the game?

[Myatar_Panwar]

By the way, I have a question about Morrigan's personal quest. I gave her the grimoire and everything, but I don't know how to advance it from there. Flemmeth is a dragon, right? I just had so much fun killing the high dragon on the mountain top that I'm itching for another equally epic fight.

Did you listen to her whole talk? She should have told you about why she wants Flemeth dead. You have to go kill her at her hut. Morrigan cannot come.

Nevermind, Zevox is right. I forgot you had to wait a bit.

[Faulty]

Alright, thanks. Do I talk to Morrigan in camp for that or will she just talk to me on her own?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It happens. At least for Dwarven Nobles.
So the dwarf commoner doesn't get any credit? And what are the triggers for a Dwarf Noble to become a Paragon?

[Zevox]

Alright, thanks. Do I talk to Morrigan in camp for that or will she just talk to me on her own?
Both, really. I had an automatic conversation with her upon entering camp.

Zevox

[Mewtarthio]

Alright, thanks. Do I talk to Morrigan in camp for that or will she just talk to me on her own?

You have to go to camp, but the dialogue should start automatically.

Regarding the Sloth Demon stage in the Circle Tower,

What happens if you bring along characters incapable of dreaming (ie Shale, Ogren, and/or Dog)? And what if you are playing a dwarf yourself?

[ondonaflash]

You have to go to camp, but the dialogue should start automatically.

Regarding the Sloth Demon stage in the Circle Tower,

What happens if you bring along characters incapable of dreaming (ie Shale, Ogren, and/or Dog)? And what if you are playing a dwarf yourself?

Dog dreams he's sleeping. No encounters. He kicks his legs. Whozagoodboyden?WhozagoodBOYDEN!?

Also remember that scene where Duncan stab-climbs up an ogre's chest?

That was awesome.

[Faulty]

Nothing is better than dragon slaying. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uWBbZQ1gI8)

[Zevox]

Nothing is better than dragon slaying. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uWBbZQ1gI8)
Damn, am I glad you can turn off the gushers of blood. That was just ridiculous looking. The cloud of blood coming from that Dragon's head in that animation is bigger than the head itself.

Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You have to go to camp, but the dialogue should start automatically.

Regarding the Sloth Demon stage in the Circle Tower,

What happens if you bring along characters incapable of dreaming (ie Shale, Ogren, and/or Dog)? And what if you are playing a dwarf yourself?
All PCs are sent to the Weisshaupt dream, regardless of race.

As it has been said before, Dog just dreams he's asleep.

In Shale's dream, the golem is once again motionless, like when it was found in Honnleath.

I haven't had a chance to see Oghren's dream, but it involves a bar fight.

[Myatar_Panwar]

So the dwarf commoner doesn't get any credit? And what are the triggers for a Dwarf Noble to become a Paragon?

I have no idea if the Commoner can become a Paragon. All I know is that my Noble became one. :P

Basically after you kill the archdemon, you find that Gorim is in the hall waiting. I talked to him, and he told me that I was going to become a paragon.

I think you just have to beat the game.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

In addition, I found further information on the item we know as...
...King Maric's Blade. There's some more intensive information on the item on GameBanshee's new item database. It has more features than the Prima Guide said.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/dragonageorigins/equipment/images/GB_ico_longsword.pngKing Maric's Blade

Category: Weapon
Type: Longsword
Material: Dragonbone (Tier 7)
Rune Slots: 3
Damage: 11.20
Critical Chance: 3.20%
Armor Penetration: 4.00
Strength Modifier: 1.00
Installation: Base Installation

+10% Cold Resistance
+6 Damage vs. Darkspawn
+10% to Healing Effects Received

Requires: 31 Strength
Restriction: Warrior

Rumored to have been found by Cailan's father in the Deep Roads, this dwarven blade was famously wielded during the Orlesian occupation of Ferelden. A small inscription on the hilt reads simply "Katriel," but its meaning is unknown.
Still no information on the location though, frustratingly enough. :smallannoyed:

[Dienekes]

No, though apparently other actions can cause at least Leliana and Wynn to leave.

Zevox

I think everyone can leave with the proper trigger.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Oh, one more query: is it true that the Chasind Great Maul is the best 2H weapon in the game?
From what I've seen, yes. It is the only two-handed weapon that has three rune slots, which is the most any weapon can have. The only other two-handed weapon that has similar qualities is the Starfang greatsword from the Warden's Keep DLC.

The only other weapons that have three rune slots are:
The dagger, The Rose's Thorn, and the longswords Keening Blade, King Maric's Blade, Topsider's Honor and Starfang (Warden's Keep DLC).

[Blaine.Bush]

Is it possible to make a decent archer on the 360 (i.e. with no dex fix)? How should I go about doing this?

[Arcanoi]

I think Alexander the Great, the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians would all like a word with you. All of which stood up to cavalry rather consistently, and the Macedonian phalanx sarissa's were used with a shield and were roughly pike length.

However that is a brutally accurate assessment of the Chinese. After the Warring States period the Chinese strategy became all cavalry rush all the time. Especially because they never used a pike. Just a normal spear and maybe a shield.

The loss of tactics in Chinese military history makes a historian cry.

The Macedonian Sarissa was quite a different beast than the Late Medieval Pike.
The Sarissa was a bronze-tipped thrusting spear, about 4 1/2 meters in length, weighing in at about 7 Kgs, while the Swiss Pike was another meter and a half longer, and weighed another 3-5 Kgs. It was iron-tipped, and often had a metal coat along the shaft towards the tip to make the end of the weapon harder to damage.

The Sarissa was designed for fighting with a heavy shield in the off-hand, while the Pike was meant for two-handed use.

Both did become the premier weapon of their age in their area of origin, and both are polearms, but the Sarissa is NOT a pike.

As for Chinese Warfare, the main reason for the devolution of their tactics was their lack of professional foot soldiers. The basic army composition in a Chinese force was about 60-80% untrained militia levees, often armed with mass produced short spears and a few scraps of armor if they were lucky. 10-25% of the army was composed of half-soldiers who received training, but were expected to serve in the army only occasionally. They were often armed with bows and might have had a sword. The rest was composed of Medium cavalry, armored in Lamellar, and equipped with lances and swords. These horsemen were capable of slaughtering both the militia and the half-soldiers, as they were usually veterans and had such a far-and-away equipment advantage as to make it no contest at all.

Chinese warfare generally consisted of the cavalry slaughtering the infantry, with the victory going to whoever could catch their opponent's cavalry between infantry and their own cavalry. The problem was that there was no real revolution in Chinese military technology for a long time, and by the time there was, they were already being conquered by the Mongols.

[Avilan the Grey]

The Dane axe was the chosen weapon of Saxon Housecarls I believe, who would certainly have been able to afford a sword since they were professional full time warriors.

The thing with the big axes (held with two hands, like the Housecarl axes is that it does not allow for any kind of defensive style. You can only be extremely aggressive; you cannot parry anything. Compare with a blade held with two hands, or a smaller axe and a shield.

Other than that... I am one of those who are extremely skeptic to most things "Modern" people assume about old weapons and armor. There are still people that insists that knights in full plate armor had to be winched on their horses for crying out loud.

[thorgrim29]

From what I've seen, yes. It is the only two-handed weapon that has three rune slots, which is the most any weapon can have. The only other two-handed weapon that has similar qualities is the Starfang greatsword from the Warden's Keep DLC.

The only other weapons that have three rune slots are:
The dagger, The Rose's Thorn, and the longswords Keening Blade, King Maric's Blade, Topsider's Honor and Starfang (Warden's Keep DLC).

Not true, there's a 3 slot axe in the chest behind the bartender in the gnawed noble, and it is awesome. So is killing dragons, are there more then two high dragons in the game? And if so, where can I find the others, I want to annoy the smith shopkeeper guy some more.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Where are the first two? I only know about the one near the

Urn quest

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Not true, there's a 3 slot axe in the chest behind the bartender in the gnawed noble, and it is awesome. So is killing dragons, are there more then two high dragons in the game? And if so, where can I find the others, I want to annoy the smith shopkeeper guy some more.

Are you certain? From what I've seen, the most slots any axe has is two. What's the name of the weapon of which you speak?

[warty goblin]

The thing with the big axes (held with two hands, like the Housecarl axes is that it does not allow for any kind of defensive style. You can only be extremely aggressive; you cannot parry anything. Compare with a blade held with two hands, or a smaller axe and a shield.

You can defend just fine, either by catching your opponant's weapon on the top of your axe in a thrusting move-which has the added benefit of threatening to make a large hole in your enemy with the tip of the axe's blade, or by sweeping the weapon from side to side and using the head to knock an enemy's weapon off course. Blocking with the shaft is also perfectly possible, although it will lead to some damage to said. Finally I have seen recreators wear shields on their back and use them to catch blows quite effectively.

The length of the weapon itself is a defense, and except in very close quarters is much less of a hindrance than you would think. Just choke up on it, and you've got more leverage than a swordsman at any position but halfsword, about the same reach, and several interesting moves such as cutting, thrusting, hewing, striking with the butt, or bodyblocking with the shaft.

You cannot defend yourself like you would with a sword it is true, but you can't do that with pretty much any weapon that isn't a sword, and it hasn't seemed to hinder them throughout history. You are vulnerable to arrows when weilding the two handed axe, but you can haul out the shield for those.

As an aside, in the Dagohir group I roll with, I usually fight single one hander, or when available one hander and shield. Nothing worries me more than somebody with a two handed weapon, not even the spearmen. I've figured out how to outfight them if everything goes well, but the two handers are outside my realm as of yet.


Other than that... I am one of those who are extremely skeptic to most things "Modern" people assume about old weapons and armor. There are still people that insists that knights in full plate armor had to be winched on their horses for crying out loud.
Some people are idiots.

[Zevox]

So is killing dragons, are there more then two high dragons in the game?
The only other full-size Dragon in the game is the Archdemon.

Technically speaking, I think there's only one High Dragon in the game. The one atop the Urn's Mountain. Flemeth is just a Shape-Shifter, and the Archdemon is a corrupted Old God, which are apparently distinct from High Dragons.
Zevox

[Dienekes]

The Macedonian Sarissa was quite a different beast than the Late Medieval Pike.
The Sarissa was a bronze-tipped thrusting spear, about 4 1/2 meters in length, weighing in at about 7 Kgs, while the Swiss Pike was another meter and a half longer, and weighed another 3-5 Kgs. It was iron-tipped, and often had a metal coat along the shaft towards the tip to make the end of the weapon harder to damage.

The Sarissa was designed for fighting with a heavy shield in the off-hand, while the Pike was meant for two-handed use.

Both did become the premier weapon of their age in their area of origin, and both are polearms, but the Sarissa is NOT a pike.

As for Chinese Warfare, the main reason for the devolution of their tactics was their lack of professional foot soldiers. The basic army composition in a Chinese force was about 60-80% untrained militia levees, often armed with mass produced short spears and a few scraps of armor if they were lucky. 10-25% of the army was composed of half-soldiers who received training, but were expected to serve in the army only occasionally. They were often armed with bows and might have had a sword. The rest was composed of Medium cavalry, armored in Lamellar, and equipped with lances and swords. These horsemen were capable of slaughtering both the militia and the half-soldiers, as they were usually veterans and had such a far-and-away equipment advantage as to make it no contest at all.

Chinese warfare generally consisted of the cavalry slaughtering the infantry, with the victory going to whoever could catch their opponent's cavalry between infantry and their own cavalry. The problem was that there was no real revolution in Chinese military technology for a long time, and by the time there was, they were already being conquered by the Mongols.

Sorry DCGFTW, the sarrissa was a two handed weapon that was meant to be held firm not thrust with a single hand. When Philip was developing his army he changed much of the armor and panoply. The 1 handed dory was replaced with the sarissa obviously, but just as importantly the big aspis was replaced with the lighter smaller shield whose name is completely escaping me right now, but which was worn as a big buckler over the arm.

The sarissa is recognized as one of the first true pike's though it is agreeably not exactly the same as those used during the medieval/renaissance era.

As for the China bit, yeah, that's pretty much what happened. Just said the long way.

It should be noted though that there was an attempt to keep the infantry up to par with the cavalry during the end of the Warring States early Qin/Han Dynasty, which was bringing in a halberd like weapon that was supposed to be bigger and heavier to keep away cavalry.

It didn't seem to work so well for it's intended task.

[AstralFire]

So I'm finally getting to play this great game... and I'm stuck on a puzzle in the DLC.

http://www.theanteheroes.com/nosense.jpg

Is this thing bugged or am I just missing the rules? Which tiles can be 'slid' don't seem to follow any rules I can understand, and the fire isn't following any logical paths.

[Thanatos 51-50]

So I'm finally getting to play this great game... and I'm stuck on a puzzle in the DLC.

http://www.theanteheroes.com/nosense.jpg

Is this thing bugged or am I just missing the rules? Which tiles can be 'slid' don't seem to follow any rules I can understand, and the fire isn't following any logical paths.


Looks bugged to me:
Rules herein.
Fire is supposed to follow the direction the arrows are pointing., You can slide any tile adjacent to the empty square (No diagonals) into the empty square

[Trixie]

Oh, one more query: is it true that the Chasind Great Maul is the best 2H weapon in the game?

All things considered - no.


From what I've seen, yes. It is the only two-handed weapon that has three rune slots, which is the most any weapon can have. The only other two-handed weapon that has similar qualities is the Starfang greatsword from the Warden's Keep DLC.

Um, any Sword made from Dragonbone has 3 slots. You only need to upgrade, if possible.

[Faulty]

All things considered - no.



Um, any Sword made from Dragonbone has 3 slots. You only need to upgrade, if possible.

So what would you suggest? My character is a 2H weapon warrior.

[Theodoric]

So what would you suggest? My character is a 2H weapon warrior.
Starfang is definetly a must-have, but I'm personally having no luck for the encounter to occur in my second playthrough.:smallfrown:

[Faulty]

I have that! Where is Soldier's Peak?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

There should be an icon for it on the map in the north of Ferelden. I think you have to talk to Levi Dryden in order for it to appear or something, but I'm not sure.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

All things considered - no.
How so?

Um, any Sword made from Dragonbone has 3 slots. You only need to upgrade, if possible.
Yes, but who would use a generic weapon with rune slots when you can have a unique weapon that has properties IN ADDITION to the rune slots? That makes for a more powerful weapon overall.

[Mewtarthio]

The only other full-size Dragon in the game is the Archdemon.

Technically speaking, I think there's only one High Dragon in the game. The one atop the Urn's Mountain. Flemeth is just a Shape-Shifter, and the Archdemon is a corrupted Old God, which are apparently distinct from High Dragons.

Speaking of dragons, is there any reason to fight the fake Andraste? I presume it changes the ending, but I'd kind of like something a bit more substantial before I go through all that trouble and spend so many health poultices.

[Zevox]

Speaking of dragons, is there any reason to fight the fake Andraste? I presume it changes the ending, but I'd kind of like something a bit more substantial before I go through all that trouble and spend so many health poultices.
Doesn't change the ending, actually, but there are reasons. One, the rewards - that thing has a number of items on it, and of course the experience. Two, armor. If you've had Wade make two sets of Drake Scale items already, the Dragon Scale you can take off that High Dragon can be made by him into some incredible armor of medium, heavy, or massive size. I went with massive, getting Wade's Superior Dragonbone Plate armor, which was the best armor I found for Alistair.

Also, there is an achievement unlocked for killing that particular Dragon, if you care (I don't, personally).
Zevox

[Callos_DeTerran]

Speaking of dragons, is there any reason to fight the fake Andraste? I presume it changes the ending, but I'd kind of like something a bit more substantial before I go through all that trouble and spend so many health poultices.

I'm still wondering how to KILL that bloody thing, though when I checked my Dwarf Noble again it turned out I was only level 10. So I probably did have to level up some more.

And does anyone know if the Dwarf Noble becoming a Paragon is definitive or do you need to do something for that to happen?

And is there a better shield then the Aeuducan Family shield? Look and stat-wise?

[Myatar_Panwar]

And is there a better shield then the Aeuducan Family shield? Look and stat-wise?

I never found one. That shield is pretty awesome.

[Tavar]

Well, zero punctuation has reviewed the game here (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1096-Dragon-Age-Origins). What do people who have played the game think of the review?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I never found one. That shield is pretty awesome.
I'm told Duncan's Shield is the best in the game.
You find it as part of that Grey Warden cache in Denerim. It starts out as a gift that has VERY special significance to Alistair. After you give it to him, it becomes an equippable shield.

[Theodoric]

Well, zero punctuation has reviewed the game here (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1096-Dragon-Age-Origins). What do people who have played the game think of the review?
I'm angry :smallfurious: :smallwink:
Meh, funny as always. I don't really understand fanboys who must defend everything they like. Then again, I don't understand people in general.

Though he was quite accurate about the game not really being that dark for dark fantasy. ranted, it's more intricate and slightly eviler than the average game, but I've seen much darker fantasy everywhere.

[Tavar]

I thought he was pretty positive about the game. I mean, he even says it's a good game, which is somewhat rare.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't think he actually said it's "good." He said he enjoyed it. Still, surprised me.

Also, the statement at the end of the credits...

"So is the Dragon Age anything like the Bronze Age, and now everything's made out of dragons"

...is eerily accurate, given that that the best trousers in the game are made out of dragon parts.

[Comet]

Yeah, he certainly seemed to like it. And he was spot on about it being about as classic Fantasy as fantasy gets. And that's exactly what I like about Dragon Age.

Mind you, I could do with a little less dungeon-romping. Having to go through the same monster-infested caverns every time is really hurting my excitement for replays.

[Muz]

Any spoilers in the review? :smallsmile:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Not really.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Does ANYONE know where King Maric's Blade may be found?

[warty goblin]

Any spoilers in the review? :smallsmile:

Let's put it this way, if you couldn't guess the amount of stuff that the review spoils, I envy you your lack of genre savy.

[Theodoric]

Let's put it this way, if you couldn't guess the amount of stuff that the review spoils, I envy you your lack of genre savy.
well, the roylty tihng would be a nasty spiler, so no. though that's only after the first three hours or sommat.

[Voldecanter]

END GAME SPOILER

So when does Dragon Age 2 come into Development .....Or the Downloadable Content so that I can go after Morrigan ....I mean ....I WANT TO SEE MY KID !

[Myshlaevsky]

END GAME SPOILER

So when does Dragon Age 2 come into Development .....Or the Downloadable Content so that I can go after Morrigan ....I mean ....I WANT TO SEE MY KID !

Your kid will probably just be Morrigan (Or Flemeth, depending) in a new body with a freakishly powerful soul, no?

[Myatar_Panwar]

Well, zero punctuation has reviewed the game here (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1096-Dragon-Age-Origins). What do people who have played the game think of the review?

I think it was rather hilarious how he decided to take a dump on the game for the first 4 minutes, and then take the last 30 seconds and say "actually its not that bad".

[Tavar]

That's pretty much how all of his reviews go: he's very into accentuating the negative. Of course, the more he likes a game, the less the negative focuses on the gameplay and more on the genre as a whole. Still, I find him useful, if only because unlike most reviews he really does say what's bad with a game.

[Comet]

On Sandal:

Would I be completely off-track if I thought that Sandal's problems of expression and his magical abilities are both the result of excessive lyrium-poisoning? He was found in the Deep Roads and I think one of the merchants in Orzammar has difficulty concentrating because he accidentally got some lyrium into his system.
Is this it? Or is there some evil plot at work with Sandal? :smalltongue:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's likely why. Lyrium causes insanity in humans and elves, so it's not that much of a stretch.

[Faulty]

I think it was rather hilarious how he decided to take a dump on the game for the first 4 minutes, and then take the last 30 seconds and say "actually its not that bad".

Yahtzee does that for every game. Just consider the 30 seconds of praise a blessing.

I wouldn't say it's totally generic. The rebranding of elves as an enslaved race rather than supernatural forest dwellers (OK the Dalish), the inability of Dwarves to do magic because they mine lyrium, the Mages being forced into bondage by the Chantry, demons having no concrete form or inspiration so they're forced to latch on to dark human emotions. I find that interesting enough to overlook the lack of inspiration when it comes to orcs Darkspawn.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Agree'd. I actually found DA's core races very refreshing. The fact that not all of the dwarfs speak with some kind of Scottish accent is surely a blessing.

And the humans are not really the ass-hole's of the story either... I mean, every race is pretty ass-hole-ish here.

edit: Though thinking about it, he said he played an elf, and in the City Elf origin, humans are indeed portrayed in a pretty poor light.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's mainly because...
Vaughnn is such an ******* it's almost funny, especially since he actually does an Evil Laugh (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilLaugh) when he's being villainous. The only way he could be even hammier is if he had a top hat and cape.

[warty goblin]

Yahtzee does that for every game. Just consider the 30 seconds of praise a blessing.

I wouldn't say it's totally generic. The rebranding of elves as an enslaved race rather than supernatural forest dwellers (OK the Dalish), the inability of Dwarves to do magic because they mine lyrium, the Mages being forced into bondage by the Chantry, demons having no concrete form or inspiration so they're forced to latch on to dark human emotions. I find that interesting enough to overlook the lack of inspiration when it comes to orcs Darkspawn.

So the elves are partially enslaved tree worshippers. Still, probably an improvement.

Stereotypical dwarves don't do magic anyways, so I hardly see that as a distinguishing feature anyways. They live underground and they have axes. That's pretty in line with the standard really.

Mages being enslaved by religion might be a somewhat new twist, but thematically it seems like an extension of Ye Olde Cleric/Wizard Rivalry, which has been going on since Raistlin first coughed blood or thereabouts.

[thorgrim29]

Does the game scale the difficulty the first time you visit an area or is the forest supposed to be trivially easy? The side quest to find sten's new clothes was harder then the main one, including the minidragon.

[Ahab]

Agree'd. I actually found DA's core races very refreshing. The fact that not all of the dwarfs speak with some kind of Scottish accent is surely a blessing.

And Zevran's sexy spanish accent? Awesome.

[arguskos]

And Zevran's sexy spanish accent? Awesome.
You mean, his Antonio Bandaras accent? Since yeah, he looks and sounds like Antonio there. Makes me laugh. :smallbiggrin:

[Myatar_Panwar]

Does the game scale the difficulty the first time you visit an area or is the forest supposed to be trivially easy? The side quest to find sten's new clothes was harder then the main one, including the minidragon.

Everything scales to your level, as far as I can tell.

I didn't really find the forest trivially easy, though I did find it less difficult than Redcliff, the Mage Tower, or dwarf town.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Found out something interesting about the Paragon of Her Kind quest.
It's actually possible to side with Branka and still destroy the Anvil of the Void. With the right conversation choices and some persuasion, you can make Branka see just what she's done with her crazed quest, at which point she'll destroy the Anvil herself and then commit suicide like Caridin would have if you sided with him.
Also, here's a question I've been meaning to ask about persuasion and intimidation. Is it set up like D&D, where you have a "DC" you have to beat, and you can succeed or fail at these attempts? Or is it like Mass Effect, where your skill simply allows you access to the conversation choices in the first place?

[Arbitrarity]

I think it was rather hilarious how he decided to take a dump on the game for the first 4 minutes, and then take the last 30 seconds and say "actually its not that bad".

I don't think he really "dumped" on the game, actually. He said that it was typical of the genre, but he wasn't exactly criticizing it, nor saying that the genre was bad. Just that it was similar to other games.

[Zevox]

END GAME SPOILER

So when does Dragon Age 2 come into Development .....Or the Downloadable Content so that I can go after Morrigan ....I mean ....I WANT TO SEE MY KID !
I'm wondering if we'll be seeing a second Dragon Age game, too. They certainly left more than enough story threads for one. Morrigan's intentions with the child, certainly, is one I'd be very interested in learning. But there's also the Blights, and how little is understood about the Darkspawn. As Alistair says early in the game, all that is really known about them is that they come from underground. The rest is Chantry myth which may or may not be true. And even if it is, there's still three more Blights to go, as this Archdemon was only the fourth of the seven to awaken. Though I'd find it infinitely more interesting if the Chantry is simply wrong, and there's more going on than their myths indicate with the Darkspawn.

Plus there's simply so much more to the world than the Darkspawn. The plight of Elves and Mages, the conflicting Human kingdoms whose relationships were only touched upon in this game, the Dalish's quest to recover as much of their heritage as possible, the dwindling Dwarven population (down to two cities, which aren't even on speaking terms with each other no less), and so much else that they did an excellent job of fleshing out. Details, details, details. It would, to some degree, be a waste to leave some of that as just background to one game, even a great game like Dragon Age: Origins.


Also, here's a question I've been meaning to ask about persuasion and intimidation. Is it set up like D&D, where you have a "DC" you have to beat, and you can succeed or fail at these attempts? Or is it like Mass Effect, where your skill simply allows you access to the conversation choices in the first place?
More like D&D. You can mess up a dialogue option marked with persuade or intimidate, resulting in a negative reaction from the person you were talking to. It's based on a combination of the rank of the level of the skill you have (1 to 4) and your cunning or strength score, for persuade and intimidate respectively. Though I think mages get to use magic in place of strength on intimidate, as my mage never had a strength higher than 10 but still regularly succeeded on intimidations, including enough to unlock the game's achievement for succeeding on 5 difficult intimidations.

Zevox

[Blaine.Bush]

Is it possible to make a decent archer on the 360 version, with no dex fix?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm wondering if we'll be seeing a second Dragon Age game, too. They certainly left more than enough story threads for one. Morrigan's intentions with the child, certainly, is one I'd be very interested in learning. But there's also the Blights, and how little is understood about the Darkspawn. As Alistair says early in the game, all that is really known about them is that they come from underground. The rest is Chantry myth which may or may not be true. And even if it is, there's still three more Blights to go, as this Archdemon was only the fourth of the seven to awaken. Though I'd find it infinitely more interesting if the Chantry is simply wrong, and there's more going on than their myths indicate with the Darkspawn.

Correction:
This is the FIFTH Blight, not the fourth. There are hopefully only two more to go before the threat of a Blight is ended for good.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

More like D&D. You can mess up a dialogue option marked with persuade or intimidate, resulting in a negative reaction from the person you were talking to. It's based on a combination of the rank of the level of the skill you have (1 to 4) and your cunning or strength score, for persuade and intimidate respectively. Though I think mages get to use magic in place of strength on intimidate, as my mage never had a strength higher than 10 but still regularly succeeded on intimidations, including enough to unlock the game's achievement for succeeding on 5 difficult intimidations.

Zevox
And how difficult do they get? I've seen reccomendations to only build your Cunning up to 16 so you can get Master Coercion if you're a warrior or mage, or 22 if you're a rogue for the other rogue talents. That doesn't seem like much when compared to an ideal Strength or Magic that's in the 40s or 50s. I know building Strength makes intimidation easier but intimidate usually seems to be the more "evil" option.

[Zevox]

And how difficult do they get? I've seen reccomendations to only build your Cunning up to 16 so you can get Master Coercion if you're a warrior or mage, or 22 if you're a rogue for the other rogue talents. That doesn't seem like much when compared to an ideal Strength or Magic that's in the 40s or 50s. I know building Strength makes intimidation easier but intimidate usually seems to be the more "evil" option.
I think the skill ranks have more bearing on your success or failure than your stat. My mage did stop at 16 cunning (not counting boosts he later acquired from the Circle of Mages quest), and rarely failed a persuasion, except near the very end of the game (and at that point he had more success with intimidate than persuasion, which is among the reasons I think mages use magic for that rather than strength). He also took the persuasion skills more often than the others, waiting until late in the game to really work on the combat skill, and otherwise only taking a point of Herbalism somewhere in the middle there.

Meanwhile, my new warrior (level 8, still hasn't really completed any main quest objectives yet), who has invested more in combat skills and at this point only has 1 point in the persuade skill, can't seem to persuade or even intimidate much of anything, in spite of a high strength score for the intimidation. Yeah, I'm taking the second point in that skill next level - maxing out the combat skill can wait a bit.

Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And about those persuasions:
What were they related to?

[Trixie]

Your kid will probably just be Morrigan (Or Flemeth, depending) in a new body with a freakishly powerful soul, no?

No.


Agree'd. I actually found DA's core races very refreshing. The fact that not all of the dwarfs speak with some kind of Scottish accent is surely a blessing.

Refreshing? :smallconfused:

It's pretty much a carbon copy of Sapkowski. You know, the guy who wrote The Witcher.


Found out something interesting about the Paragon of Her Kind quest.
It's actually possible to side with Branka and still destroy the Anvil of the Void. With the right conversation choices and some persuasion, you can make Branka see just what she's done with her crazed quest, at which point she'll destroy the Anvil herself and then commit suicide like Caridin would have if you sided with him.

I'll try :smalltongue:


Also, here's a question I've been meaning to ask about persuasion and intimidation. Is it set up like D&D, where you have a "DC" you have to beat, and you can succeed or fail at these attempts? Or is it like Mass Effect, where your skill simply allows you access to the conversation choices in the first place?

Yes.


I'm wondering if we'll be seeing a second Dragon Age game, too. They certainly left more than enough story threads for one. Morrigan's intentions with the child, certainly, is one I'd be very interested in learning. But there's also the Blights, and how little is understood about the Darkspawn. As Alistair says early in the game, all that is really known about them is that they come from underground. The rest is Chantry myth which may or may not be true. And even if it is, there's still three more Blights to go, as this Archdemon was only the fourth of the seven to awaken. Though I'd find it infinitely more interesting if the Chantry is simply wrong, and there's more going on than their myths indicate with the Darkspawn.

Plus there's simply so much more to the world than the Darkspawn. The plight of Elves and Mages, the conflicting Human kingdoms whose relationships were only touched upon in this game, the Dalish's quest to recover as much of their heritage as possible, the dwindling Dwarven population (down to two cities, which aren't even on speaking terms with each other no less), and so much else that they did an excellent job of fleshing out. Details, details, details. It would, to some degree, be a waste to leave some of that as just background to one game, even a great game like Dragon Age: Origins.

Two.

Urthemiel was Fifth AD, and first to appear in Ferelden.


More like D&D. You can mess up a dialogue option marked with persuade or intimidate, resulting in a negative reaction from the person you were talking to. It's based on a combination of the rank of the level of the skill you have (1 to 4) and your cunning or strength score, for persuade and intimidate respectively.

No.


How so?

Just: No.

Guide lies :smalltongue:


Yes, but who would use a generic weapon with rune slots when you can have a unique weapon that has properties IN ADDITION to the rune slots? That makes for a more powerful weapon overall.

Chasind Great Maul IS generic compared to others. That, and this thing costs 150+ gold. You could buy more that 12 stat/skill/feat books (~4 free levels) for that. Others are free (gold) and they pay you (xp).

That, and swords are better. Don't bother.


Speaking of dragons, is there any reason to fight the fake Andraste? I presume it changes the ending, but I'd kind of like something a bit more substantial before I go through all that trouble and spend so many health poultices.

No.

Except for loot, xp, achievements.

Oh, and 2nd best heavy/light armors.


Does ANYONE know where King Maric's Blade may be found?

No.

Guide lies :smallamused:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Both the guide and GameBanshee say the sword exists. Disbelieve the guide if you will, but GameBanshee is a very reliable site.

[Zevox]

And about those persuasions:
What were they related to?
Which ones? :smallconfused:

Zevox

[Myshlaevsky]

No.

Please explain further. Abrupt dismissals are liable to cause further questions and, in the worse case, annoyance. I wouldn't mind hearing you explain why this is not what will happen because I am curious about it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Which ones? :smallconfused:

Zevox
You mentioned that at a Cunning of 16 and Master Coercion you weren't failing persuasions until near the end.
What kinds of persuasions were these? Were they important ones, like getting Alistair to marry Anora? Were they minor ones, like asking for a bigger reward for something? I want to know because I like taking Persuade options whenever I can, and I want to know just how much I'll need to boost my Cunning in order to keep suceeding on Persuade right up until the end.

[Athanatos]

Refreshing? :smallconfused:

It's pretty much a carbon copy of Sapkowski. You know, the guy who wrote The Witcher.

Explain? My knowledge of Sapkowski is very limited, but I'm not seeing it here.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Chasind Great Maul IS generic compared to others. That, and this thing costs 150+ gold. You could buy more that 12 stat/skill/feat books (~4 free levels) for that. Others are free (gold) and they pay you (xp).

That, and swords are better. Don't bother.
Are you serious? I assume there's a plain dragonbone maul or greatsword. That would just have the three rune slots as a benefit. The Chasind Great Maul has the following special benefits in addition to the rune slots:

+5 Damage
+2.5 Armor Penetration
+0.5 Stamina Regeneration in Combat
+75 Stamina

Requires: 38 Strength

Even if the Chasind Great Maul has the same weapon stats as a common Dragonbone Maul, the fact that it has these extra benefits AND the three rune slots makes it the superior weapon.

[Zevox]

You mentioned that at a Cunning of 16 and Master Coercion you weren't failing persuasions until near the end.
What kinds of persuasions were these? Were they important ones, like getting Alistair to marry Anora? Were they minor ones, like asking for a bigger reward for something? I want to know because I like taking Persuade options whenever I can, and I want to know just how much I'll need to boost my Cunning in order to keep suceeding on Persuade right up until the end.
The big one which comes to mind is persuading Loghain's loyal soldier girl (I forget her name, but she captures you after you rescue the queen and later confronts you as you enter the Landsmeet) to back down when I arrived at Landsmeet. A subsequent reload to before that event, which I did when I mistakenly took the route during the Landsmeet which causes Alistair to abandon you and Loghain to join, allowed me to try intimidating her at that same point, and it worked.

I never tried persuading Alistair and Anora to marry - I supported Anora for the throne, and felt they would not have a happy marriage if I tried to force that, plus I knew Alistair was against it from his reaction when I discussed it with Arl Eamon. Given my failure with the above-mentioned soldier, I doubt I could have succeeded at that. (And incidentally, my cunning was higher than 16 at that point, by however many points you get from the permanent boosts during the Circle of Mages quest.)

I think there were a few others I failed, but I forget which ones they were.
Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You're thinking of...
...Ser Cauthrien. Well, looks like I'll need to bolster my Cunning a bit.

[Faulty]

That, and swords are better. Don't bother.

Maces/mauls have tempting amounts of armor penetration.

[ondonaflash]

The big one which comes to mind is persuading Loghain's loyal soldier girl (I forget her name, but she captures you after you rescue the queen and later confronts you as you enter the Landsmeet) to back down when I arrived at Landsmeet. A subsequent reload to before that event, which I did when I mistakenly took the route during the Landsmeet which causes Alistair to abandon you and Loghain to join, allowed me to try intimidating her at that same point, and it worked.

I never tried persuading Alistair and Anora to marry - I supported Anora for the throne, and felt they would not have a happy marriage if I tried to force that, plus I knew Alistair was against it from his reaction when I discussed it with Arl Eamon. Given my failure with the above-mentioned soldier, I doubt I could have succeeded at that. (And incidentally, my cunning was higher than 16 at that point, by however many points you get from the permanent boosts during the Circle of Mages quest.)

I think there were a few others I failed, but I forget which ones they were.
Zevox


Bah! In a Feudal Era Marriage happiness is irrelevent in light of the benefits the marriage would have for the kingdom. Royalty marrying for live is not only Naive, it's dangerous! Marriages are used to cement alliances and insure strong leadership, not to provide happiness. That's why kings have mistresses, and Queens get their heads chopped off.

Also, the money in videogames comes from franchises, so its almost assured that we'll see Dragon Age II: The Dragon Aging!