PDA

View Full Version : Whee Kythons



AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 03:55 PM
So some of you may have seen my thread asking for help with some traps and general campaign stuffs regarding sending a group of PCs into a mine filled with undead and kython. This particular adventure is actually the root of an epic story that I’m working on. Now, the chances of my potential players seeing this are low (only one of them reads order of the stick), but just in case:

If your gaming group meets in long island and features a shaven-headed Indian guy whose paladin in 3.5 most recently danced for money in the street, don’t read the spoilers!

The first adventure:

PCs will be clearing a mine filled with kython and undead at the request of various figures of importance in the town. They will encounter a number of difficulties as well as human casters and fighters that are armed with what appear to be pieces of Kythons. They will discover the source of the troubles is a necromancer near the bottom of the cave, who is somehow commanding Kythons. Players will be attempting to slay/defeat the necromancer and his adult Kython cohort(?) to complete the adventure.

The behind the scenes/expansion:

PCs will believe the job is done and complete and that they have done the town a service. The town will laud them and beg them to stay for a day or two to be lauded with a feast. Depending on what they have done during the course of the adventure, one of the friendly town NPCs will be killed in the night. The wounds will clearly be from Kythons, but if the point wasn’t clear enough, there will be a note clawed into the room’s wall, stating “Our time now. Our world.” Rather than a signature, there will be a strange symbol that looks like it was etched with acid. At this point, the PCs will hear a massive rumbling as something collapses the mine, making it inoperable. Plot hook to go to another area will follow.

The Big Bad and Co:

It will be revealed that the first adventure was not a brush with a man controlling Kythons, but the other way around. Players will find that Kythons have somehow organized and begun to learn new and fiendish ways to assert their horrifying power (IE, they will encounter Kython wizards and sorcerers at some point). The big bad, however, is going to be far more horrifying. There’s going to be a strong element of “Body Horror” running through this…there is a chance that one of the players will find themselves physically modified against their will. They’re going to discover that the Kythons seem to be using profane and vile magics and practices to create strange Kython hybrids and are equipping normal races in their employ with bizarrely reconstructed Kython weapons (expect a repeating bone crossbow, for example, or an acid shooter that sprays a cone attack at short range). This will turn out to be the impetus of the strange being that has started the strange Kython revolution…

And here’s where I run into a problem. What do I make the BBEG?

Obvious and easy way out is a Slaughterking with something special about him…in actuality, he is the next step of Kython evolution, a Slaughterking with ambition beyond its next meal.

What I’m toying with is actually some kind of creepy version of the Dragon Disciple, replacing Dragon with Kython. The result of a bizarre experiment by a sorcerer whose incredible charisma has been turned to something horrifying, or the age-old experiment of a madman come to sudden fruition…

Or possibly, the above, with the idea that the creation of this being was what the fiends who created Kythons meant to happen all along. Trapped on this plane, they sought not simply to recreate their kind, but to set a time bomb that could wipe out the world. And this being’s creation just set it off.

Anyways…I’m looking mostly for opinions on the above or new ideas I may not have considered. Or just the opinion that this is completely unworkable and a terrible horrible idea that I shouldn’t do to my players.

Solaris
2009-11-16, 03:59 PM
A transformational class that transforms someone into a pseudo-demonic Zerg? Sounds like a plan to me. Mayhaps writing out kython grafts might not be a bad idea, especially when coupled with a homebrewed template, but I wouldn't recommend inflicting them on a player against his will.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 04:09 PM
A transformational class that transforms someone into a pseudo-demonic Zerg? Sounds like a plan to me. Mayhaps writing out kython grafts might not be a bad idea, especially when coupled with a homebrewed template, but I wouldn't recommend inflicting them on a player against his will.

Players won't, really. Basically, there's certain situation in which, if PC death occurs, I'll pull the player aside and give them a choice. Still working on the exact details. There may also be a situation in which they are offered to players by a wizard on their sad, with regret...IE "I don't want to do this, but it may be the only way you can handle the next challenge."

arguskos
2009-11-16, 04:12 PM
Whatever it turns out to be, it needs to look like this dude:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/3/37/Baernaloth.jpg

That's technically a picture of baernoloth, but the appearance is totally in line with a "primal Kython", a being that was the source of all Kythons everywhere. I'd probably play up the idea that Kythons were orignally spawned from the blood of this creature, and it is a primal, elemental, powerful evil so ancient, it defies description. This being, this Kython God, is some evil from the world before ours, locked away for all time. Until it's progeny managed to unleash it. Now, the plucky heroes must reseal it, before we are all destroyed.

Or, that's what I'd do anyways.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 04:21 PM
Or, that's what I'd do anyways.

I am saving that picture. I might not use your idea, but I damn well am going to use that as a strange new freakish Kython.

Or a Kython/Elf hybrid. Wheee!

I want to stick with the ideas outlined in the BoVD for the Kython creation story, though. But thank you for the idea! It is awesome but not quite what I am looking for.

arguskos
2009-11-16, 04:26 PM
I am saving that picture. I might not use your idea, but I damn well am going to use that as a strange new freakish Kython.

Or a Kython/Elf hybrid. Wheee!

I want to stick with the ideas outlined in the BoVD for the Kython creation story, though. But thank you for the idea! It is awesome but not quite what I am looking for.
There even was one? I don't recall it. Besides, why stick to the established stuff, when it's so much more fun to make your own? :smallamused:

In the case that you want to cleave to what has already been placed down, then my suggestion is to take the Slaughterking stats, advance them by a good bit, give him some fleshwarping powers, and call that a day. Same general feel, more in line with what you want though.

EDIT: Oh, you mean the trapped demon thing. Well, you can work my suggestion into that, actually. Consider if the BBEG is a trapped fiend from ancient times. He spawned the first Kythons, who are still trapped with him, and are much different from the Kythons of today (with more flesh-warping powers, for example). Neither he nor his creations could escape their prison, so they resorted to experimenting to create a creature that COULD escape, eventually resulting in the Kython's in the BoVD. Now, those Kythons have managed to start releasing the primordial ones, and eventually, will release the BBEG, the ancient arch-fiend that created them all. 'tis a though, and one that works well I think.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 04:30 PM
There even was one? I don't recall it. Besides, why stick to the established stuff, when it's so much more fun to make your own? :smallamused:



I actually tend to like to do both.

And yeah, an advanced Slaughterking was my "Easy Way Out", but I'm seriously thinking of templating part-kython creature of some sort just for the sake of flavor and sort of utter terror I want my players to feel. A kython is, while alien and bizarre, just another big monster. It will scare the crap out of them, sure, but I want them, when the come face to face with this mastermind for the first time, to really come so close to peeing themselves in confusion and fear that we have to stop playing for a little bit.

...I think I'm a bad person.

EDIT: your updated suggestion has been written down in my notebook. I like it. A lot. Might not use it, might, but it's very nice.

Eldan
2009-11-16, 04:31 PM
That really looks different from every Baern I've seen so far... though the goat skull look got cheap after a while, and this just looks more interesting.

Quietus
2009-11-16, 04:32 PM
In the case that you want to cleave to what has already been placed down, then my suggestion is to take the Slaughterking stats, advance them by a good bit, give him some fleshwarping powers, and call that a day. Same general feel, more in line with what you want though.

I'd make it sorcerous powers, and have the fleshwarping be in the form of a replacement Polymorph spell; Same level, but limited to warping something into a kython-ish shape, and permanent. Perhaps Polymorph Any Object to forcefully apply Kython "grafts"?

The only reason I say sorcerous powers is because this is a theme you've already brought up, so keeping that makes sense.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 04:35 PM
I'd make it sorcerous powers, and have the fleshwarping be in the form of a replacement Polymorph spell; Same level, but limited to warping something into a kython-ish shape, and permanent. Perhaps Polymorph Any Object to forcefully apply Kython "grafts"?

The only reason I say sorcerous powers is because this is a theme you've already brought up, so keeping that makes sense.

I might actually use this idea for a group of Kython "scientists"...the party will spot them doing their horrible work..muah ha ha!

Also I just thought of Kython Warlocks. The concept of a 24/7 invisible flying kython.

Kulture
2009-11-16, 04:36 PM
Half-farspawn Slaughterking, size increases if needed.

I've always been a heavy-handed advocate of half-farspawn, because I'm a c'thulhu fan and I want to bring back combat tentacles...
And as a result of half-farspawn you can look like the above abomination, and you get a further body-horror transformation that bestows morale debuffs on those who even look at him, as well as doubling the number of tentacle attacks.

arguskos
2009-11-16, 04:38 PM
I actually tend to like to do both.

And yeah, an advanced Slaughterking was my "Easy Way Out", but I'm seriously thinking of templating part-kython creature of some sort just for the sake of flavor and sort of utter terror I want my players to feel. A kython is, while alien and bizarre, just another big monster. It will scare the crap out of them, sure, but I want them, when the come face to face with this mastermind for the first time, to really come so close to peeing themselves in confusion and fear that we have to stop playing for a little bit.
Heh. I've already done that to my play group more than a few times. See, the best way I know to do that is to have the critters you face be inhuman, unholy monsters from god only knows where. Then, when everyone thinks the BBEG with be a huge slavering doombeast, you spring a huge slavering doombeast that speaks intelligibly on them, and asks why you have been harming it's children. Bonus points if it demands compensation.


EDIT: your updated suggestion has been written down in my notebook. I like it. A lot. Might not use it, might, but it's very nice.
Oh, well, thank you for the compliment. I try.

BAM! Another idea! You could take the Azathoth approach, from Lovecraft. Basically, the Kython God/Creator/Leader is a mindless beast that is kept in a perpetual state of weakness and infirmness, since even in its dreaming state, it creates new Kythons, warps existing ones, and generally is a pain in the ass to handle. Kythons serve this creature's unconscious desires out of fear, since they don't want it to use them as fuel for another round of mutations. Slaying it would set the Kythons free, yes, but it may also set the mutations it spawns loose to run rampant. What should happen? Should the Kythons be locked up with it somewhere they can't escape? Should you kill the beast, and potentially gain a powerful, if evil, ally in the Kythons?


Half-farspawn Slaughterking, size increases if needed.

I've always been a heavy-handed advocate of half-farspawn, because I'm a c'thulhu fan and I want to bring back combat tentacles...
And as a result of half-farspawn you can look like the above abomination, and you get a further body-horror transformation that bestows morale debuffs on those who even look at him, as well as doubling the number of tentacle attacks.
I actually have baernoloth stats laying about. They're TERRIFYING. However, Half-Farspawn is a great template. I agree with the idea of using it, if you go that route. My "Azathoth Kython" idea lends itself well to half-farspawn.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 04:43 PM
Heh. I've already done that to my play group more than a few times. See, the best way I know to do that is to have the critters you face be inhuman, unholy monsters from god only knows where. Then, when everyone thinks the BBEG with be a huge slavering doombeast, you spring a huge slavering doombeast that speaks intelligibly on them, and asks why you have been harming it's children. Bonus points if it demands compensation.


Differing philosophies in horror. I find the most terrifying things to be humans acting in a vile manner, or a being that is both alien and human at once, so while it's easy to blame the inhuman half for the evil acts, there is that sneaking, endless, horrible idea that what it accomplished could only be done by a human.

Note: Substitute "human" for any similar race in D&D. It's just easier to type "Human" than "human/elf/dwarf/halfling/gnome/etc."

arguskos
2009-11-16, 04:45 PM
Well, I always felt that having something that you always assumed wasn't really human and thus deserved no sympathy or understanding suddenly prove it's intelligent and is in pain from YOUR actions was pretty horrid. Only a human would make such a mistake, assuming that just because it has tentacles means it's not worth talking to.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 04:53 PM
Well, I always felt that having something that you always assumed wasn't really human and thus deserved no sympathy or understanding suddenly prove it's intelligent and is in pain from YOUR actions was pretty horrid. Only a human would make such a mistake, assuming that just because it has tentacles means it's not worth talking to.

Agreed. I'm not disagreeing with what you find scary AT ALL, just noting that I tend towards another angle in my own work/creative impulses.

arguskos
2009-11-16, 04:55 PM
Agreed. I'm not disagreeing with what you find scary AT ALL, just noting that I tend towards another angle in my own work/creative impulses.
Fair enough then.

I DO kinda roll with the incomprehensible horror from the beyond theme alot. 'tis my favorite.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 05:01 PM
Fair enough then.

I DO kinda roll with the incomprehensible horror from the beyond theme alot. 'tis my favorite.

It's a lovely one. There's a reason it's popular in all sorts of film, literature, etc. It's also one that would fit well with this story, so I am kind of taking your suggestions into mind against my own thoughts. I tend to stick with "we are the real monsters" themes, or the horror of alien and "human" in a single creature and what that can do to the psyche.

I think I am possibly more depressing than you.

jiriku
2009-11-16, 05:05 PM
You could take the pale master prestige class from libris mortis and homebrew a variant that gains kython grafts and powers instead of undead-related grafts and powers. And, of course, your homebrew version ought to have a lot more oomph to it than the pale master. Alternately, take draconic grafts and reflavor them as kython grafts, then add a whole pile of them onto the super-bad-dude.

And as far as your idea sucking, no. It looks great.

arguskos
2009-11-16, 05:05 PM
It's a lovely one. There's a reason it's popular in all sorts of film, literature, etc. It's also one that would fit well with this story, so I am kind of taking your suggestions into mind against my own thoughts. I tend to stick with "we are the real monsters" themes, or the horror of alien and "human" in a single creature and what that can do to the psyche.

I think I am possibly more depressing than you.
Well, that's possible, though I take a sadistic pleasure in cracking my players. I brought one to tears once. :smallamused:

Hell, the one time I really let loose and played an evil character in a game as a player, the DM at the time asked me to please stop, since two players had to excuse themselves due to illness, and he was getting REALLY uncomfortable.

Course, that's neither here nor there. Kythons! **** Yeah! /badjoke I do actually really like the Azathoth idea, since you could even work in the idea that Kythons were created when a human was forcibly melded with a demon by the insensate creator thing, spawning a tortured creature that obeyed it's creator out of fear. Now, Kythons are conflicted, forever battling their demonic nature with their humanity.

AtwasAwamps
2009-11-16, 05:07 PM
You could take the pale master prestige class from libris mortis and homebrew a variant that gains kython grafts and powers instead of undead-related grafts and powers. And, of course, your homebrew version ought to have a lot more oomph to it than the pale master. Alternately, take draconic grafts and reflavor them as kython grafts, then add a whole pile of them onto the super-bad-dude.

And as far as your idea sucking, no. It looks great.

Ooh good call! And thank you for the compliment, I really like it.

You know what's funny/slightly a problem? My gaming group has all the books in one house. They are aware I am planning my first story ever. The following exchange occurred during one of our sessions when we had a little down time and I wanted to look something up.

"Hey, can you pass me the Book of Vile Darkness?"
"Why, what's in there for your paladin?" ::Curious look, hands over book::
"It's not for my paladin." ::flips through book::
"...Oh crap."

I'll be doing that this week with Libris Mortis...

Todd Stewart
2010-01-09, 11:20 PM
Whatever it turns out to be, it needs to look like this dude:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/3/37/Baernaloth.jpg

That's technically a picture of baernoloth, but the appearance is totally in line with a "primal Kython", a being that was the source of all Kythons everywhere.

That's not actually a baernaloth. It's actually a picture of a critter I created, an astradaemon from Paizo's planar book 'The Great Beyond'.

This is a baernaloth http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/Baernaloth (from the 2e Planes of Conflict box set).

DragoonWraith
2010-01-09, 11:41 PM
You might also look into the Dorokusai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134228), a Tome of Battle-using Greater Chain Devil (super Kyton). It's pretty sweet.

Zephyros
2010-01-10, 01:15 AM
For your boss you can use the stats of Daelkyr lord from Eberron Campaign Setting. It has all the flesh twisting and warping feel as long as with a malevolent intelligence that most normal Kythons lack.

In Magic of Eberron there's also some kind of chamber that the Daelkyr use to "genetically engineer" stuff. You can use that to give your players some pause as they contemplate what horrid mind created that flesh factory...:smallamused:

Deth Muncher
2010-01-10, 01:38 AM
You might also look into the Dorokusai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134228), a Tome of Battle-using Greater Chain Devil (super Kyton). It's pretty sweet.

Nono, Kython, not Kyton. Kythons are Tyranid/Alien/Zerg things, not devils.

EDIT: That reminds me. Go look at a Codex: Tyranids. Get some ideas.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-10, 03:23 AM
You might also look into the Dorokusai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134228), a Tome of Battle-using Greater Chain Devil (super Kyton). It's pretty sweet.

They are using Kython (think Xenomorphs from the Alien movies... yanno, with face-huggers and all?) Not Kytons, who manipulate chains. Different type of demon.

Take a look at the Fiendish Grafts section of BoVD too, while you are at it. Some of 'em are pretty nifty, and fit the flavor almost right out of the box.

There was also a class called "Fang of Lloth", which you can strip down and reflavor. Basically, you had to get this item, which can normally only be used by spiders, and UMD it to work for you. Then it triggers, and starts turning you into a half-spider monstrosity that makes a Drider look like a cute puppy. Replace 'spider' with 'kython', and you've got the perfect vehicle for "They gave him a graft, which started changing him over a longer period of time"

arguskos
2010-01-10, 01:31 PM
That's not actually a baernaloth. It's actually a picture of a critter I created, an astradaemon from Paizo's planar book 'The Great Beyond'.

This is a baernaloth (from the 2e Planes of Conflict box set).
Really? I saw it being used for a baernoloth pic, and it seemed to fit great.

Thanks for the clarify, though I really like your art more than the actual one. :smallwink:

Also, Atwas, if you're still reading this thread, how'd this work out?

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-10, 08:14 PM
Well, I started the game a few weeks ago...they haven't even gotten into the caves. They're mopping up some cultists they got involved with that were a side-plot I was going to bring in later.

Whoops!

Lysander
2010-01-10, 08:26 PM
What about an evil druid with kythonshape? A human that views kythons as a superior being, and wants to merge their essence with all lesser intelligent species. He could also have kython-animal hybrids he plans on setting loose.

The advantage of this is that in human form he looks completely normal. Give him an amulet that disguises his true alignment and he can infiltrate the town, pose as a friend, give the PCs advice that leads into a trap. Maybe he admires the PCs and wants to capture them and grant them the superiority of the kython form.

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-10, 08:33 PM
What about an evil druid with kythonshape? A human that views kythons as a superior being, and wants to merge their essence with all lesser intelligent species. He could also have kython-animal hybrids he plans on setting loose.

The advantage of this is that in human form he looks completely normal. Give him an amulet that disguises his true alignment and he can infiltrate the town, pose as a friend, give the PCs advice that leads into a trap. Maybe he admires the PCs and wants to capture them and grant them the superiority of the kython form.

I thought about that and recently had an amusing idea. Kython with master of many forms levels. Wheee!

Sydonai
2010-04-04, 11:15 PM
For your boss you can use the stats of Daelkyr lord from Eberron Campaign Setting. It has all the flesh twisting and warping feel as long as with a malevolent intelligence that most normal Kythons lack.

In Magic of Eberron there's also some kind of chamber that the Daelkyr use to "genetically engineer" stuff. You can use that to give your players some pause as they contemplate what horrid mind created that flesh factory...:smallamused:

The disturbing part is that without the symbionts a Daelkyr looks like a normal human.

Draken
2010-04-05, 07:49 AM
I will endorse the Half-Farspawn idea, but I add another suggestion.

Needs more tauric.

Remove the big kython's head and in its place you stick the torso of a human(oid) sorcerer (the one you mentioned before), horribly warped by the fusion with the being but still visibly human(oid). You have your villain. An unnatural monster's body, warped by unnatural forces from beyond the universe and unnaturaly linked to some deranged spellcaster.

Other options I can give are to add Realms of Chaos' Xenotheurge (look at Homebrewing) somewhere and my Evolutionist (sig), somewhere. For those extra anomalous kicks.

AtwasAwamps
2010-04-05, 08:54 AM
I will endorse the Half-Farspawn idea, but I add another suggestion.

Needs more tauric.

Remove the big kython's head and in its place you stick the torso of a human(oid) sorcerer (the one you mentioned before), horribly warped by the fusion with the being but still visibly human(oid). You have your villain. An unnatural monster's body, warped by unnatural forces from beyond the universe and unnaturaly linked to some deranged spellcaster.

Other options I can give are to add Realms of Chaos' Xenotheurge (look at Homebrewing) somewhere and my Evolutionist (sig), somewhere. For those extra anomalous kicks.

Kythontaur!

DELECTABLE!

hamishspence
2010-04-05, 12:26 PM
When humans arrived in Khorvaire, the natives had had experience with the Far Realm- they thought humans looked like Daelkyr (rather than the reverse).

Which might raise interesting possibilities.

Asbestos
2010-04-05, 03:18 PM
If a thread gets sufficient responses after being Necromanced... does it no longer count as Necromancy?