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Leliel
2009-11-17, 02:03 AM
Well, I have long wanted to DM a mecha-anime game in Eberron, even to the point of creating a villain-Rikath Arathale, ancient archlich and mecha pilot.

Since I already have a picture of who he is in my mind, I'll just put down the motive exposition (which, given that I plan on it being PbP, will not be interrupted by players).

One other thing-the speech is in outer space, which results in some of the metaphors.

"Take a long gaze at this planet."

"From above, it looks like a blue and green jewel, surrounded by a ring of eternally rotating diamonds. Serene. Peaceful. Happy."

"Yet, you and I know different, don't we?"

"On the surface of that gem, terrible wars and tragedies have occurred, and are occurring. Some of them, I am ashamed to say, I caused. Most, however, can be said to be the ultimate fault of others, or the cruel whimsy of nature. The Last War, for instance-a seemingly unending battle royale of shifting loyalties and betrayals, all kept alive by bitterness and hate. Still is, as much as the Khovari would like to ignore it."

"But it is old hat for me. I have seen the world end before, and watched as the planet kept on turning, heedless of the new blood on it's surface. It will probably keep doing so after I am gone."

"I am a soldier, my friends. I have seen my friends die, my family die, my superiors die, my entire civilization die...but I didn't. I still had hope that you would learn from my race's mistakes, that I could entrust my knowledge to your cultures as you learned from the mistakes of your ancestors. So I entered into the state of the archlich, not truly alive, but neither quite undead, so I could watch over the Ruestli empire's lore until that day."

"And I watched, as our nieces and nephews cheerfully forgot the lesson we had so bitterly learned, cast aside in the hubris that they would somehow cheat the corruption of power and devolved into petty bickering."

"I watched, as the graves of my brothers were defiled, the once proud and wild Sarlona wrapped in chains of dreams and psionic energy under a false pantheon. I watched, as Erandis d'Vol was destroyed by those who feared her potential, rather than her. And I watched, as the War of the Mark took the lives of those for the crime of being different. Many times, I thought I could watch no more, and I began to crave the sweet release of death."

"But I still watched."

"To ease the pain of my continued life, I took up research on Dolurrh. I poured my time and energy into the Shadowfell, learning as much as I could. Did I hope to comfort myself by trying to believe that the dead were in a worse state than half-life? Maybe. But it was a century ago, that my studies came to fruition-I saw through the plane, to the ultimate destination of those who die and move on. It was...wonderful."

"That was perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back for me."

"You see, beyond the dreary place we think of as the afterlife, there exists a sea of souls. Actually, 'souls' isn't the proper term-it is a sea of a single gestalt soul of those who have walked before, vast and dreaming."

"In that instant, I connected to that great, sleeping being, that I knew-Dolurrh is not the end, but a transition. It is where the soul, devoid of all connections in the world around it, begins a journey-not one of distance, but of within. In it, they comes to realize that there is no more that should hold them to the material realm. Some don't make it immediately, of course-there's a reason for the undead not created by necrotic energy alone. But eventually, most do, and they, unfettered, leave Dolurrh and dive into and are subsumed by the sea-soul, their memories adding to it's fantastic waters. By a process I can only describe as tides, some of the memories soon coalesce into nascent souls, and are sent back to the world, in a nigh-endless cycle of death and rebirth."

"What is the purpose of this ouroboros? Is it to make the sea-soul large enough to split like an amoeba, creating new worlds? Is it so our planet can grow, defending itself against truly foreign invaders like the inhabitants of Xoriat? Or is there no purpose at all, just a meaningless, beautiful jumble of a series of chaotic events that spontaneously became a system in a moment of perfect evolution?"

"Whatever the case was, it felt right to me. Naturally, I was incensed."

"How dare the dead find eternal peace, while I fight a battle I lost long ago?How dare they live on in fantasy and bliss, while I must contend with the misery of the real world? And how dare they sleep, when I must stay eternally awake, watching as the world slowly destroys itself?"

"But you know? It gave me hope."

"I had long succumbed to the belief that the planet had no meaning to it-that we were automatons contenting ourselves with the illusion that is free will, when we know that the events of the world are far out of our hands. But knowing that there is a purpose, even a somewhat meaningless one, finally awoke the vital spark of faith and belief that had long gone out in me-not in any deity or higher power, but that even if I failed to change the world, my memories would live on as new souls, just as my nation has. I realized that even if you fail in your attempt to change the world for the better, if your faith in yourself and your passion for your cause is truly strong, that you will still have made an impact on the face of the planet for having been there."

"I now know that I had been hiding behind the shield of nihilism and apathy, silently cursing the world while I sat and did absolutely nothing to make it better. Now I understand-while I had been watching, opportunity for me to remake the world, and reforge it for the better of all had been knocking. I now shall take action to unite all the disparate countries of Eberron into a single order, one whose dictates are controlled by the laws of peace and community, not war and factionalism."

"No, I do not wish to rule this world. I have done too many terrible things, and seen so many more, that the only use for me is to finally dive into the living oblivion of the sea-soul, and unload far too many memories than any human has a right to retain."

"But I will no longer watch."

Yeah...kinda got the personality down pat.

But how do you think this should influence his actions?

taltamir
2009-11-17, 02:05 AM
I thought ALL villians wanted world peace? (peace = no war... no war only happens if you conquer the whole entire world :P)

Seatbelt
2009-11-17, 02:18 AM
Look at people like Stalin. The whole world would only truly be happy when united under a one-world style communist government. He was also an awful leader who had millions of people killed.

SSGoW
2009-11-17, 02:23 AM
Hitler was another that technically wanted world peace and invaded other countries to get rid of "the enemy"

basically the villians personality doesn;t matter as long as his goals is world peace and answer this question for the viallian...

Does the end justify the means?

Frosty
2009-11-17, 02:30 AM
umm...go watch Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny, and also Evangelion. You can use the villains from those anime almost driectly in terms of inspiration. Seriously, your villain is a cross between Durandel from Seed Destiny and SEELE from Evangelion.

Myrmex
2009-11-17, 02:30 AM
Does the end justify the means?

You can justify whatever you like as long as you have a big enough stick. :smallsmile:

Temet Nosce
2009-11-17, 03:01 AM
umm...go watch Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny, and also Evangelion. You can use the villains from those anime almost driectly in terms of inspiration. Seriously, your villain is a cross between Durandel from Seed Destiny and SEELE from Evangelion.

This is good advice. Come to that, you might also watch Gundam 00. I'd skip Evangelion but that's because I'd never recommend the pure suffering of sitting through that to anyone (I still shudder when I realize I sat through the whole thing since my friends insisted it got better).

Anyways, I'm not really seeing a lot of similarity on a personal level between your villain and Stalin/Hitler. On a macro scale, kind of but their personalities were um... different to say the least.

Mikeavelli
2009-11-17, 03:07 AM
If you want an Anime, go watch Code Geass, especially the 2nd season. A world-wide war is fought between a huge cast of main characters, all of whom believe they're doing the right thing, for world peace.

The main character is a chessmaster, a master manipulator, with the goal of creating a peaceful world, but he holds back because his morals (the very morals that make him want to create a peaceful world) are holding him back. He knows exactly how to break the entire planet beneath his heel and call him daddy, but there are lines he's not willing to cross.

Until, for various reasons, he stops holding back. He accepts that his ends are so important, using any means at all is acceptable so long as it brings about that good end. and it works.

[hr]

The Villain must achieve good ends: If he takes over countries and Unites the world just to crush it under his heel like every other tinpot dictator, he's not very interesting. He comes in, takes control, and does a fantastic job. He doesn't actually want to be the administrator, so he mind-rapes local lords into doing his bidding.

his bidding is that they fairly administrate the land, refrain from taxing the peasantry unduly, and maintain order.

Lands brought under his control maintain only a police force, and a standing army necessary to continue the great crusade. Everyone else returns home, free to live their lives in what is quickly becoming paradise.

[hr]

He lacks an ego. He doesn't care if anyone fears him, or even knows who he is. He'd prefer they not, in fact, makes things easier from a more practical perspective. The only evidence this man exists is his prodigious use of murder and mind-rape to create order; and whatever bits of nostalgia remind him of life back when he still cared about the world.

[hr]

He is RIGHT. When the final confrontation comes, and the Players arrive to stop his righteous crusade, there should be doubt in their minds whether he's really the bad guy. You should be able to give him a motive rant that stands a good chance of having your players decide to actually join him.

He's done unquestionably evil things, but he's done them for the greater good. But unlike power-mad idiots, he's actually followed through on the greater good part.

Night Monkey
2009-11-17, 03:23 AM
Sounds to me to be a bit like a character from Watchmen. Read the graphic novel, that applies to everyone.

Oslecamo
2009-11-17, 03:56 AM
Look at people like Stalin. The whole world would only truly be happy when united under a one-world style communist government. He was also an awful leader who had millions of people killed.

Not necessarily true. Stalin holded to several satelite countries as a giant meat shield/hostages because he had a genuine fear a certain other super potency would rain atomic death over him on the near future.

Stalin could have rolled all over Europe just after the end of WWII before atomic bombs started being mass produced and there was the threat of mutual anihilation, but he didn't. Pretty strange for someone with world conquering delusions, no?

And hey, if wanting the whole world to run under a single style of government and geting lots of people killed is the clear sign of a sign of a villain, what to say of certain american presidents?

(not saying here that Stalin is a saint, just that there have been a lot of bigger evils. And hey, his actions led to the start of space exploration)

hamishspence
2009-11-17, 03:58 AM
Avoiding the real-world person discussion....

TV tropes points out that Kaius III is evil and wants world peace, Queen Aundair is good and wants to conquer and rule the world.

Peace through negotiation, rather than Peace through superior firepower, is not out of the question for an evil character's methods.

Arakune
2009-11-17, 08:35 AM
There is Darth Revan, from Kotor, that almost conquered the entire republic. Differently from his successors (his former aprendice, the emperor palpatine in achievments) he actualy used his brains: didn't caused too much infrastructure damage, negociated with neutral planets, actualy had was acting in a way to avoid damaging the republic...

Kzickas
2009-11-17, 08:51 AM
"there is no greater pacifist than a conqueror, for there is nothing he would like better than to conquer without resistance"

JeenLeen
2009-11-17, 08:56 AM
I was expecting this to end with the 'villian' wanting to end all life so everyone can find peace in the sea of souls, avoiding the pain of life.

But, as is: I see him having few qualms of killing to get to his path, at least intellectually. He believes all souls eventually find bliss, right? He wants to create an orderly world so they have some mirror of that until they enter the true afterlife.

I imagine he would avoid genocide or eliminating monuments, cultures, etc., since he laments the loss of his own civilization.

Lapak
2009-11-17, 09:14 AM
In terms of references, you should also take a look at Baron Klaus Wulfenbach from the Girl Genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php) comic. This page right here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040806), and the one immediately before it, are especially relevant.

He's a mad scientist in a world of mad scientists, who are constantly fighting and warring and struggling for dominance and wrecking the world around them in the process. The 'good guy' approach had been tried, and it worked for a time, but as soon as the heroes in question disappeared it all fell apart. So he decided to go for the brutal approach, to be bigger and meaner and more ruthless than anyone else, and impose peace through tyranny.

jiriku
2009-11-17, 12:38 PM
Nice speech. It really conveys the depth of the character. If you care for editing advice, the entire thing is a good read, but the references to the "straw that broke the camel's back" and "opportunity knocking" feel a little jarring. The character seems too cerebral and grandiose to use pithy little figures of speech.

hamishspence
2009-11-17, 12:48 PM
Given that nearly all the rulers of what once was Galifar, agree that it would be a really good thing if it was united (they just don't agree on who it should be united under) what is to make this guy a villain and not merely an antagonist?

Possibly his methods? (Mindraping everyone who disagrees with him is one way of having him "cross the line" so to speak)

Aron Times
2009-11-17, 01:05 PM
Watch Code Geass, a.k.a. Mind Control: The Animated Series. That is all.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-17, 01:08 PM
Nice speech. It really conveys the depth of the character. If you care for editing advice, the entire thing is a good read, but the references to the "straw that broke the camel's back" and "opportunity knocking" feel a little jarring. The character seems too cerebral and grandiose to use pithy little figures of speech.

It's a decent speech, but yeah, drop the pithy bits, and try to cut back on the length. Seriously, read it out loud once, it's a pretty hefty dose of flavor text for one go. Characters as ADD as mine would try to stab him halfway through the second paragraph.

I agree with the reccomendation of Watchmen.

Sleepingbear
2009-11-17, 01:33 PM
You know, if you worked things right, the PC's could start out working for the Big Bad. And still beleive 100% that they're on the side of angels. At least until they start turning up evidence otherwise.

A villian like this could be supporting a Lawful Good puppet king/emperor. I can see him as a dark version of Merlin to King Arthur and the round table knights. He does what needs doing behind the scenes so that this nation he is building and their heroes/leaders are unsullied.

What if the PC's were those heroes?

chiasaur11
2009-11-17, 01:47 PM
Sounds to me to be a bit like a character from Watchmen. Read the graphic novel, that applies to everyone.

My name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Look upon my works ye mighty and despair. Sounds like a plan, that one.

Platinius
2009-11-17, 02:29 PM
Definately a Knight Templar type, check Tv Tropes if you want to learn more, and very intersesting character

Choco
2009-11-17, 02:54 PM
I'd skip Evangelion but that's because I'd never recommend the pure suffering of sitting through that to anyone (I still shudder when I realize I sat through the whole thing since my friends insisted it got better).

That. I usually get strung up by my thumbs on various anime forums for saying this, but IMO the only interesting parts of Evangelion and Akira are how such huge steaming piles could become the huge hits that they did. My reaction after finishing both of them was "... alright, THAT is what everyone was raving about? No wonder anime is not catching on in the US with crap like that as the poster child."

Also, I second watching Code Geass, the second half of the second season should give you some ideas.

And, dare I say it, you should check out Death Note. That has to be one of the best examples of commiting and becoming evil in order to attempt to make the world a better place.

Cisturn
2009-11-17, 03:23 PM
The Watchman character is Adrian Veidt aka Ozymandius you might get some use out of the actual poem by Percy Shelley too

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

AslanCross
2009-11-17, 05:38 PM
I also recommend Code Geass---this is exactly what you're looking for.



This is good advice. Come to that, you might also watch Gundam 00. I'd skip Evangelion but that's because I'd never recommend the pure suffering of sitting through that to anyone (I still shudder when I realize I sat through the whole thing since my friends insisted it got better).


Rebuild of Evangelion is much much better. It's less of a mind screw and more awesome action. Only the first two movies are out, however.

Yukitsu
2009-11-17, 05:40 PM
That and eva isn't exactly about anyone that wants to make the world a better place.

Big fan of the series, but I can certainly understand why some people wouldn't like it.

AslanCross
2009-11-17, 05:56 PM
That and eva isn't exactly about anyone that wants to make the world a better place.

Big fan of the series, but I can certainly understand why some people wouldn't like it.

It's a very twisted idea of world peace, yeah. :P In the case of Code Geass, though, he more or less wanted genuine world peace.

Regarding Eberron's Kaius and Aurala:

I believe Kaius wants world peace because it's not the end game he has in mind. It allows him more elbow room for his machinations. After all, fighting a war is expensive and time-consuming, especially with Thrane and the Church of the Silver Flame next door.

Aurala, on the other hand, wants to be on the throne of Galifar because she believes Khorvaire will be better off under her rule.

Two CP.

Leliel
2009-11-17, 07:47 PM
As for the pithy metaphors-a big part of Rikath's backstory is that he was essentially a soldier from birth, raised to fight in a century-long war against what was essentially an artificial god...whch was, in itself, the product of a civil war that lasted over fifty years. And it wasn't the pseudo-civil Last War either-no, it was total war, the equivalent to a limited nuclear conflict in the modern world, in more ways than one (ever wonder why Sarlona has all those manifest zones?).

Yep. He has PTSD like you wouldn't believe.

For the most part, while he does talk it that aristocratic, grandiose demeanor, it's an affectation-occasionally, his speech patterns slip and reveal the layman underneath. It doesn't happen often, and in fact, he doesn't care because it makes him somewhat more personable to his minions.

Temet Nosce
2009-11-17, 07:57 PM
Heh, I forgot both Code Geass and Death Note two of my favorite animes. Thanks for pointing that out you three. Yeah though, I'm gonna give that rebuild of Evangelion a pass. I'm never touching anything about that again *shudders*

industrious
2009-11-17, 08:19 PM
I'd suggest Watchmen.

Baidas Kebante
2009-11-17, 09:06 PM
Since a lot of suggestions have already been made in regards to resource material (I'd add Qin Shi Huang and Doctor Doom to the pile), I'll look at this issue from another angle.

How self aware is your villain? Is he aware that the world is going to perceive him as evil? If that is the case, although sees himself in a positive light and may even believe that history will prove him right, for the most part he'll play as a typical villain. He'll expect the occasional party of adventurers out to stop him. Most of his minions will have a mix of fanatics and mercs, knowing that truly good characters won't join his cause at first. And he'll have the protection that a typical BBEG would carry around him.

A villain who actually thinks he's a good guy will go about things differently. Maybe he just sees himself as the misunderstood hero. If that's the case, he'll be surprised to hear that people want him dead (he may accept resistance to his ideals, but outright defiance is probably unexpected). Certain PCs will give him pause, and he may even take the time to really try to justify his actions to them. Almost all his minions will be fanatics because he'll probably find the idea of hiring mercs to his cause as distasteful and he'll probably be more vulnerable to certain kinds of ambushes because he won't see them coming.

ghashxx
2009-11-17, 09:33 PM
Some more mundane references than watchman and various anime would be Dr. Doom and Magneto. Both rule practically Utopian societies, for a time.