3.5 Enervation

[assassin8]

I have searched and have been unable to find the answer to this.

If I split ray an enervation, Can I target the same person with both and have them stack?

[katans]

Yes.

Anything else?

[Toliudar]

Enervation does stack with itself. What you're describing should work fine.

[ken-do-nim]

It's nasty, what can I say? One of the major reasons I like to give rays a range increment, so the to hit isn't as easy.

[deuxhero]

Legal, but remember the DMG has sharp corners.

[Sleepingbear]

Also, what goes around, comes around.

Always.

[ghashxx]

Stacked enervation is so much tasty. I used to do this all the time. Then I hit a monster with a ray of weakness, and it got reflected back at me. So glad I wasn't using split ray with enervation or that would have gotten real ugly real fast.

[lsfreak]

Do keep in mind that many things (undead, constructs) do not react well with negative levels. And that a simple death ward spell (persisted or stuck into armor at higher levels) will defeat it. It works well - possibly too well (arcane thesis'd black-lore-of-moil split ray empowered twinned, for example) - when it works, but has a fair amount of things that defeat it.

[Sliver]

Being a 1 trick pony generally doesn't end well, doesn't really matter how common are counters for your trick, enemies will hear about your signature move and will find ways to counter it..

[Frosty]

Yah. But the beauty of being a wizard is that you can change your tricks every day! Empowered Split-Ray Enervation one day, Widened Solid Fog the next.

[Tyndmyr]

Fell Drain, the poor man's enervation, is also great. Tack it on a magic missile or the like, and it's excellent at spreading negative levels around to multiple targets.

Note that while it doesn't stack with itself on a single spell, using something like twin spell can make a single casting of a fell drained spell remove multiple levels per target.

Sadly, unless you get crazy with snowcasting and flash frost, you can't fell drain an enervation. You can maximize and empower it, though.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Fell Drain, the poor man's enervation, is also great. Tack it on a magic missile or the like, and it's excellent at spreading negative levels around to multiple targets.

Note that while it doesn't stack with itself on a single spell, using something like twin spell can make a single casting of a fell drained spell remove multiple levels per target.

Sadly, unless you get crazy with snowcasting and flash frost, you can't fell drain an enervation. You can maximize and empower it, though.Actually, Enervation deals 5 points of damage normally. No need for snowcasting.

[mabriss lethe]

Actually, Enervation deals 5 points of damage normally. No need for snowcasting.

Not precisely. the -5hp from taking a negative level isn't classified as damage. it's classified as a penalty, meaning it comes back when/if the neg level wears off.

From the SRD

A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:

-1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
-1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
-5 hit points.
-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level. emphasis mine.

[Gamerlord]

Where can one find this Fell drain?
Is it like a metamagic feat or something?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Where can one find this Fell drain?
Is it like a metamagic feat or something?It's Metamagic from Libris Mortis:The Book of Bad Latin. +2 spell level, deals 1 neg level to any foe damaged by the spell.

[sambo.]

Also, what goes around, comes around.

Always.

+1.

if you spread a lot of split/twined/metamagic'd up the wazoo Enervation around, expect the DM to send some your way sooner or later.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

So Death Ward would probably be in order then.

[Maryring]

If you have Death Ward, so too should your enemy.

In fact, Deathward is "that one spell" that my opponents always prepare and cast on themselves. It's an incredibly powerful spell and very good at what it does.

[AshDesert]

It's fairly powerful, but any reasonably intelligent spellcaster enemy is going to have Death Ward prepared, so it's only useful against mooks and such, or against fighting-types that don't have Death Ward.

[ken-do-nim]

It's fairly powerful, but any reasonably intelligent spellcaster enemy is going to have Death Ward prepared, so it's only useful against mooks and such, or against fighting-types that don't have Death Ward.

Or just a good touch armor class.

[lsfreak]

Sadly, unless you get crazy with snowcasting and flash frost, you can't fell drain an enervation. You can maximize and empower it, though.

Black Lore of Moil, which you should have if you're going crazy with Enervation anywho (for the -1 adjustment with Arcane Thesis). And after having gone crazy with it, the piddly 3d6 damage becomes a much more respectable 50-100 points, which should be enough to finish off the poor bastard you just drained 20 levels from.

[Seatbelt]

If I wanted to twink out enervation, how would I do it?

[John Campbell]

Sadly, death ward isn't a Wizard spell.

Ray deflection is, though.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If I wanted to twink out enervation, how would I do it?Incantrix 10, for -1 to all Metamagics and a bunch of free feats. Arcane Thesis for a further -1. Take Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Twin Spell, Black Lord of Moil, Fell Drain, and every +0 metamagic you can track down. Use the +0s to offset the cost of the +3 and higher metamagics.

It's also a good idea to snag Arcane Thesis for another spell, just for the variety. Orb of Fire is a good idea(either take Searing Spell or Energy Sub:Frost if you go this route).

[lsfreak]

Human Wizard5/Incantatrix10
Split Ray
Empower Spell
Black Lore of Moil
Twin Spell
Quicken Spell
Arcane Thesis (Enervation)

That's the bare-bones of it. Throw in additional metamagic reducers (Easy Metamagic: Quicken, Residual Metamagic) and additional metamagicks (Maximize, Repeat, Fell Drain) to taste. Just with the base you get effectively 12d4 negative levels a round using a 5th level and a 7th level slot.

[Frosty]

Saying you should take Incantatrix is like saying you shoud take Planar Shepherd. It just doesn't happen due to DM fiat.

[Seatbelt]

Assuming Incantatrix is banned, and I can't add 0 level metamagics to reduce the cost for something like highten spell or whatever, whats the best you could do?


Why is Black Lore of Moil good? For a gp expenditure I can add 2D6 damage to Enervation. Is there something there I'm missing?

[lsfreak]

Assuming Incantatrix is banned, and I can't add 0 level metamagics to reduce the cost for something like highten spell or whatever, whats the best you could do?


Why is Black Lore of Moil good? For a gp expenditure I can add 2D6 damage to Enervation. Is there something there I'm missing?

The negative adjustment.

Keep in mind that Arcane Thesis was errata'd and specifically still allows negative adjustments, so it is clearly RAW and RAI. Though houseruling otherwise is common.

Also, the most broken part of Incantatrix isn't the metamagic reducers but the other stuff (persisting multiple spells with near-zero effort being one of them). The 3.0e version is allowed much more often than the 3.5 version.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Assuming Incantatrix is banned, and I can't add 0 level metamagics to reduce the cost for something like highten spell or whatever, whats the best you could do?


Why is Black Lore of Moil good? For a gp expenditure I can add 2D6 damage to Enervation. Is there something there I'm missing?That damage is boosted by all of your feats, and allows you to boost the spell with Fell Drain(which with Incant and AT becomes +0). Assuming Twin, Split, Maximize, and Empower, you turn that into 3(24+6d6). Average, additional 135 damage on your Enervation, and -1 to the spell level, at the cost of 75 GP. That's not bad at all.

[Maryring]

Sadly, death ward isn't a Wizard spell.

Ray deflection is, though.

It's so useful though, that assuming I play with the Wish Alternate rules that make some wishes free, I'll gladly prepare a Limited Wish just for the chance of casting death ward. It's one of my favourite spell.

[PhoenixRivers]

It's so useful though, that assuming I play with the Wish Alternate rules that make some wishes free, I'll gladly prepare a Limited Wish just for the chance of casting death ward. It's one of my favourite spell.

So is Ray Deflection. That spell is solid gold.

[sambo.]

Mastery Of Counterspelling or Spell Turning could come as a nasty, nasty shock to someone tossing around that kind of pimped out Enervation.

PC Wiz: I toss my Uber Enervation of mass Screw-You at the BBEG for 20 negative levels!

DM: BBEG has levels of Archmage, your Uber Enervation of mass Screw-You is thrown back in your face, take 20 negative levels... oh dear, you were only level 18. roll a new character please.....

[Douglas]

Spell Turning and Mastery of Counterspelling don't work on Enervation, though. It's a ray. Rays are effect spells. Spell Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellTurning.htm) doesn't work against effect spells. Mastery of Counterspelling requires Spell Turning to work, so it doesn't work either in this case.

[sambo.]

well, that's just crap then aint it.

although, it states "touch range spells" not "ranged touch attack spells".

sounds like a case of DM Ruling Please. personally, i don't see why Rays couldn't be turned back on their originator.

besides, the Mastery Of Counterspelling is still a COUNTERSPELL, so at the very least, you'll counterspell the Uber Enervation Of Mass Screw-You.

[Douglas]

The relevant quote here is not "Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells", but "Effect and area spells are not affected".

Whether Enervation requires an attack roll and what kind is irrelevant. What does matter is the "Effect: Ray" line in its header block.

[sambo.]

The relevant quote here is not "Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells", but "Effect and area spells are not affected".

Whether Enervation requires an attack roll and what kind is irrelevant. What does matter is the "Effect: Ray" line in its header block.

sounds like there's a very, very limited range of spells that MoC or Spell Turning will actually work on.

i might make another thread on this topic. please post in it :smallsmile:

[Douglas]

sounds like there's a very, very limited range of spells that MoC or Spell Turning will actually work on.

i might make another thread on this topic. please post in it :smallsmile:
Not all that limited. Pretty much any spell with a "Target:" line in its header block and a range other than touch does get reflected, and that's a long list.

[Eldariel]

Not all that limited. Pretty much any spell with a "Target:" line in its header block and a range other than touch does get reflected, and that's a long list.

And there's always Ray Deflection.