Besm?

[Admiral Squish]

So. I recently got my grubby little mitts on BESM. My first thought is 'ANIME D20 SQUEE'. Now that I have it and the initial rush is done, I'm mondering if it was worth the purchase. It seems like it depends largely on your players being reasonable with their ideas, rather than imposing strict regulations on them.

So, I come to the playground to hear your opinions. What do you think of the system? Do you have any experience with it? What are it's good and bad points? Did I waste thirty dollars? Would anybody be interested in joining a PbP game?

[Korivan]

what book is BESM again?

[Deth Muncher]

what book is BESM again?

BESM = Big Eyes, Small Mouth. Animoo book.

[dsmiles]

There's a d20 BESM book out for some Anime settings as well. The Slayers BESM d20 is especially heaped with awesomesauce.

[FinalJustice]

The system itself is not very good thought out and as unbalanced as it gets. It has some clunkyness as pretty expensive 'Combat Skills'. Yet, I DM'd it sometimes and we had a blast, but a lot of handwavium is necessary, as the system is not, itself, very robust. There's sort of a consensus that you are better off with Mutants and Masterminds.

[UglyPanda]

The d20 version is crap (but free, it's the only one with an SRD) because it's so clunky, the other versions are ok.

It's got some definite internal balance issues. It's point-based, so you can make something ridiculously destructive and having one character capable of destroying buildings while another is a powerless schoolgirl just isn't fun. A bunch of the defects aren't really defects at all, like being able to get more points if a move is flashy or being able to get lots of points for not using combat skills.

[Bayar]

There's a d20 BESM book out for some Anime settings as well. The Slayers BESM d20 is especially heaped with awesomesauce.

Seconded. Worth every penny. damn shipping prices

Mainly, the magic system is good. Everyone can theoretically learn how to cast any spell as long as they are a caster class. It just costs more spell points to do it IIRC.

[Krow]

I gotta agree with some of my colleagues here. While the settings can be your cup of tea, the system itself is not very balanced at all. Other systems can be pretty much re-fluffed and be more effective in execution. Mutants and Masterminds would work; so would standard D&D (With a hefty dose of ToB). :smallcool:

[Guinea Anubis]

bEsm...wow I read that wrong.

[TheThan]

I’ve got the 3rd edition of the game. Honestly its pretty good, the imbalances someone above mentioned is easy to stop, since a lot of it is setting specific (schoolgirl in ancient china for example). If some one is horribly overpowered there’s a good chance he doesn’t fit the setting.

[Tengu_temp]

Tri-stat BESM 3e is an okay open system, but if you ask me, Mutants and Masterminds 2e handles anime games much better, especially if you buy the Mecha & Manga supplement.

I have no personal experience with D20 BESM, but from what I've heard from other people, it's bad. Really bad.

[Random832]

A lot of the really 'overpowered' stuff they actually call out and warn you that it's something that has to be worked out with detailed discussion between the DM and the player. Dynamic Powers for example.

[NPCMook]

Tri-stat BESM 3e is an okay open system, but if you ask me, Mutants and Masterminds 2e handles anime games much better, especially if you buy the Mecha & Manga supplement.

I have no personal experience with D20 BESM, but from what I've heard from other people, it's bad. Really bad.

Seconding Mecha and Manga

[Artanis]

I haven't seen BESM d20 personally, but I have seen the non-d20 system, and cannot comprehend how they thought the two could go together. BESM is basically the exact opposite of d20. Trying to put the two together just...:smallconfused:

[UglyPanda]

I have spent far too much time trying to come up with a good analogy for that, most of the failed ones involving food (my mind wants lunch).

The thing about the d20 version is that it's a copy-paste of the previous edition with a different dice system and a choppy point progression.

Link (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/animesrd.html)

I personally prefer the editions which flank the d20 version.

[JeenLeen]

I ran a game using BESM (the tri-stat version, not D20) and also played one for a little bit with another person DMing.

I was a bad DM and let the players spend their points without much limitation, which led to one player being insanely overpowered. If a good DM and non-powergaming players use it, I could see it being a lot of fun. When I was playing (not running) a game of it, I had a good time, although it took a while to get use to the system.
I like how it enables you to make almost any ability with a little thought, thereby enabling a lot of flavour and finely designed character abilities.

Be very careful of abilities that give you points for which you can buy other points. For example, one ability gives you a Mecha (or similiar creature/thing to ride in.) For each rank you buy, you get 'x' amount of points. These points can buy almost anything a character can.
Incredible cheese is possible by making someone who is almost always in a body-sized mech, giving them essentially 3-5x as many points to spend as a character should.

If possible, I recommend designing a game with very little or very directed 'leveling up'. The multiple and combo-ing nature of abilities making leveling up lead to easy abuse. But again, this is something the DM and players can solve on their own.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I play BESM d20 quite a lot, and I am telling you it is good, making characters takes AGES but IMHO it is worth.

[Fastmover]

Huge fan of Besm. (D20) Doing a Mech game right now. Its not as nailed down per say as D&D, but it is still so very awesome.

I've learned how to increase my awesome by exploiting Magic and Item of Power though with Restrictions and Dependants. After I learned that my chars became very anime like. Exchange 3-4cp for 10cp? HeH!

Defects always taken - Girl/Guy Magnet, Nemesis, Significant Other

edit: I've not played the very newest version of Besm though... is it very different from the last d20 version?

[The Tygre]

I just ordered the BESM d20 and Monstrous Manual off of eBay. I got it for a low price, but I'm still looking forward to it. That said, I'm thirding Mecha and Manga. The real selling point for me was the art. Just -look- at it. Green Ronin knows its crowd, it knows who's going to buy this book. The characters show it, intentionally being as different enough from their progenitor to scrape copyright, and I say that as a good thing.

[Akal Saris]

I had fun in the one BESM d20 game I played, but the rules appeared to be meant to be broken. As a min/maxer, I pretty much had to step back just for the sake of gameplay.

I loved that pet monster tamer was a class though. It's the only one that really appealed to me.

[9mm]

the key to besm is to remeber that char-gen is to make the potaganists of almost any anime; remember to impress hevily the tone and genre of anime you want them to play... or you'll end up with a Kagami next to GT era Goku and Lain.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I like Slayers d20's magic system. It breaks if pushed too far or if you try to combine it with other d20 systems, but it is really the right feel of magic IMHO.

[ninja_penguin]

Out of curiosity, what tips the scales toward M&M 2e for some people? I've got BESM 3e (didn't care for the d20) and M&M 2e. I've never managed to get a game going either as player or DM. From earlier editions of BESM I understand that you need a set of guidelines or a very firm hand with character creation. What specifically tilts you one way or the other?

[Ormagoden]

You mean your 3.5 games aren't already cel shaded in your head?

For shame...

[Zincorium]

The Tri-stat version is a lot of fun, and during the short time I played it, I got to play some concepts that mechanically weren't viable in most games. I would say the key thing to remember is that, like it's source material, different characters aren't strictly balanced among themselves, some are going to be more adaptable while others can pull out the big guns half the time and will have to chill sometimes.

I recall demonstrating how quickly that swarm-shifting business could get out of hand, but that was the only physical combat option that character had, he was mostly social.

BESM D20 is a interesting idea, but it combines the weaknesses of the two systems rather than the strengths. The D20 system has problems with classes just plain outshining each other at the same level, which is important considering that levels are the basis for adjucating almost everything else. BESM D20 adds in every bit of imbalance that a vaguely edited point buy system brings to the table.

[horseboy]

As a rule I loath all things d20. Tri-Stat BESM I like. It reminds me a lot of GURPS, only more playable. You have to treat it like GURPS, though. It's a "Tool Box" system.

[Tengu_temp]

Out of curiosity, what tips the scales toward M&M 2e for some people? I've got BESM 3e (didn't care for the d20) and M&M 2e. I've never managed to get a game going either as player or DM. From earlier editions of BESM I understand that you need a set of guidelines or a very firm hand with character creation. What specifically tilts you one way or the other?

M&M is much better balanced, simpler and faster in both character creation and gameplay, more cinematic, and both offers more options and lets you access these options easier. Combat in M&M is interesting and exciting, combat in BESM feels like a generic jRPG, except that you control only one character.

[Tetsubo 57]

I wasn't impressed with the D20 BESM book. But I absolutely love the Everstone: Blood Legacy book which is based on it. One of the two best versions of the D20 system I've ever seen.

[RandomNPC]

you need to decide what to allow from the get go, after that, its kinda fun in a non-serious way.

[Wereling]

So. I recently got my grubby little mitts on BESM. My first thought is 'ANIME D20 SQUEE'. Now that I have it and the initial rush is done, I'm mondering if it was worth the purchase. It seems like it depends largely on your players being reasonable with their ideas, rather than imposing strict regulations on them.

So, I come to the playground to hear your opinions. What do you think of the system? Do you have any experience with it? What are it's good and bad points? Did I waste thirty dollars? Would anybody be interested in joining a PbP game?
I actually don't like the D20 BESM. I think it takes away a lot of the flexibility of the original game, and replaces it with a level-based system that feels forced at best. It's not a BAD system, per se, but it's not as good at traditional fantasy roleplaying as D&D, not as good at sci-fi as other systems (like Traveller), and not really well suited for story-based roleplaying (like the original BESM system or some of the WoD systems)

Did you waste your money? Probably not. It's still a viable system, and it does offer a few mechanics that you'll find useful.

[erikun]

Out of curiosity, what tips the scales toward M&M 2e for some people?
Generally because M&M 2e is similar to D&D 3.5e, and I'm more likely to run into someone familiar with how D&D works.

Honestly, probably the biggest problem with Tri-stat BESM is that it's so similar to so many other point buy systems. GURPS, for example. It's not that BESM is bad - it worked quite well, from what little I saw. It's just that other systems can do the BESM anime-style and quite a bit more. M&M 2e can do anime and pokemon masters, along with superhero and sci-fi and talking dinosaurs. I certainly wouldn't mind playing it, but it wouldn't be my first choice.