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View Full Version : Lycanthrope Gestalf Build Critiques needed.



Dusk Eclipse
2009-11-18, 11:48 PM
Hey playground, I was wondering if anybody could give me a critique on my lycanthrope gestal build

relevant Character creation info

32 point buy
ECL 17
Can gestalf two prestige classes
Just ONE magic Item per character
Racial HD and LA just take one side of the progresion
No flaws allowed
No combining magic items


Basic Build Dark* Weredire puma//swift hunter

Extended build

1 LA//Scout Expeditous dodge Power attack (Bonus)
2 Animal HD//Scout Alertness (Animal HD bonus)
3 Animal HD//Scout Darkstalker
4 Animal HD//Scout Improved Skirimish (Sct Bonus)
5 Animal HD//Scout
6 Animal HD//Ranger Vile Natural Attack Track (Rgr Bonus)
7 Animal HD//Ranger Two-weapon fighting (Rgr Bonus) Endurance (Rgr Bonus)
8 LA//Ranger
9 LA//Ranger Swift Hunter Blind-fight (Rgr Bonus)
10 LA// Ranger
11 Black Blood Hunter//Ranger Improved two weapon fighting Combat Expertise (Rgr Bonus)
12 Black Blood Hunter// Ranger Improved Critical Scimitar
13 Black Blood Hunter// RangerImproved Trip (Rgr Bonus)
14 Fighter// Ranger Weapon Focus (Scimitar) (Fgr Bonus)
15 Dervish// Ranger Mobility
16 Dervish// Ranger Greater Two weapon Fighting (Rgr Bonus)
17 Dervish// Ranger Spring Attack (Drv Bonus)

The black blood hunter lets me use my animal special attacks even in hybrid form. Pounce, Improved Grab, Rake.

My stats in human form re:
STR 20 (10 base +4 levels+6 item)
DEX 20 (14 base+6 item)
CON 20 (14 base+6 item)
INT 20 (14 base+6 item)
WIS 22 (14 base+2 racial+6 item)
CHA 20 (14 base+6 Item)

In hybryd form :

STR 30 (10 base +4 levels+6 item+10 Animal bonus)
DEX 26 (14 base+6 item+6 Animal bonus)
CON 28 (14 base+6 item+8 animal bonus)
INT 20 (14 base+6 item)
WIS 22 (14 base+2 racial+6 item)
CHA 20 (14 base+6 item)

My item of choice is a Belt of Magnificense +6


Well thats my build please critique and/or make suggestions

*Template from Tome of Magic

ravenkith
2009-11-19, 12:45 AM
Vs ranged or flying this guy gets pwned.

invisibility will be a problem...


and, yeah, that's first glance.

What else is backing this guy up?

Mongoose87
2009-11-19, 12:48 AM
I'd put the Ranger levels at the beginning, so you can avoid losing BaB to the LA.

Zincorium
2009-11-19, 06:09 AM
0. It's *GESTALT*. With two T's. Unless you are gestalting Gandalf and attempting to be funny, in which case I apologize. This is an actual word in the dictionary.

1. Poor BAB gets paired with the good BAB. You aren't doing this at all. Take ranger along with the LA and animal HD if possible, take scout with the fighter/dervish levels.

2. Rethink two weapon fighting. Natural attacks mean you aren't getting as many attacks as TWF, but you'd be doing better damage. Your call, but TWF is taking up a huge amount of resources in your build.

3. Warshaper. Get it. Immunity to criticals, pluses to strength and con, more damage, and sweet, sweet fast healing. As long as you're in 'combat form' it all functions continuously.

4. Is dire puma large? War hulk.

PinkysBrain
2009-11-19, 07:27 AM
Just ONE magic Item per character
Your DM is holding a megaphone to your ear and telling you non casters can't have nice things ... and you are putting your fingers in your ears and shouting lalalala.

On a AC40 critter you will be doing around 150 damage (http://www.distanceeducationconsultants.com/ddcalc.php?strength=30&dexterity=30&BAB=17&btohit=4&btodam=4&dr=0&w1dmg=3.5&w1rng=3&w1mult=2&w1enh=0&w1bonus=0&pw1=&w2dmg=3.5&w2rng=3&w2mult=2&w2enh=0&w2bonus=0&pw2=&weaponwield=dualwield&pa=true&patype=3.5&haste=true&hastetype=3.5&ambi=true&twf=true&itwf=true&gtwf=true&focusw1=true&focusw2=true&impcritw1=true&impcritw2=true&sneakattack=5d6&charge=true&charge_mult=1&Ilove=Macy&button1=CALCULATE) on a full attack ... this is not impressive for a gestalt character who is a one trick wonder. The only completely non-magic character I'd consider playing would be a MoMF ... at least you will have some flexibility.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-11-19, 12:33 PM
Oh answers

ravenkith
As for flying enemies... I got a large compound longbow +10 strength bonus
and for invisible enemies I got scent in any form I am currently in

Zincorium,
0 I meant Gestalt, it was a typo

1 I will take your suggestion of having ranger levels first as to not loose BAB

2 I don't understand why Natural weapons are a better idea than two weapon fighting? my full attack routine would be with the 3 main hand weapons, 3 off-hand attacks and one bite, and if using dervish dance it would deal 1d8+10+6d6 main hand 1d8+5+6d6 off-hand and 1d8+5+1 (vile damage)

With Natural attacks that would mean one bite 1d8+10+1(vile damage) two claws at 1d6+5 each + 6d6 skirmish and IIRC ane extra d6 because of rake (in a pounce).

Maybe I should have posted I am using scimitars as my weapon of choice.

3 I will also consider Warshaper

4 Yes were dire puma is large but I don't like war hulk that much, I know the +2 STR per level is good, but it doesn't work for me.


PinkysBrain:this time I don't want to play a caster, and by MoMF you mean the Master of Many Forms right?

Zincorium
2009-11-19, 03:09 PM
Well, since all your feats regarding weapons say 'scimitar' I figured that was what you're going to use- I appreciate people thinking I have the intelligence of a toddler and thus return the favor by not assuming they'll take weapon focus in things they're not using.

You're averaging 31.5 damage with your main, 26.5 with your off, and 10.5 with your bite, assuming dervish dance with skirmish and no additional bonuses. With as many dice as you're rolling, the results stick pretty close to the bell curve. So, I'm sure you think that's freaking awesome and you'll be the envy of the party- but at level 17 in gestalt? If it's not a cakewalk to take Balors and the like, you have a problem. The key problem with two weapons is that, to offset the fact that several of your attacks are simply not going to land due to miss chances and bad rolls, you need high levels of bonus damage and you simply don't have it, especially if you fight constructs, undead, or fortified enemies who ignore your skirmish damage entirely.

In gestalt, you need to do something other than just be good with locks/traps (not that you shine in that area either) and your damage is really not impressive considering that's supposed to be your thing.

Some more reasonable suggestions:
-I know you're taking ranger for the skirmish improvements, but it's really not all that, consider dropping it once you qualify for other stuff.
-Taking two PrCs at once is huge. Take advantage of that.
-Tome of Battle. If you're a high level melee character, it can make a lot of things that otherwise aren't worthwhile shine, even if you don't use the classes themselves.
-Rage is an easy increase in combat effectiveness, and as a lycanthrope there's little flavor reason not to have it.
-If you must have dervish, look up the WotC forums handbook on optimization. It's a cool class, but it's not a powerful class. And you really should take more levels of it if you're going to dip in it at all.
-Why aren't you putting your ability scores in things you're using? Unless you were forced to use those scores, how they fit your character boggles the mind. If you want to play a smart, charismatic, incredibly discerning character, then why not actually take advantage of those qualities when it comes to your classes?

PinkysBrain
2009-11-19, 04:29 PM
PinkysBrain:this time I don't want to play a caster
Not even blade magic, binding, incarnum?

and by MoMF you mean the Master of Many Forms right?
Yep ... obviously that assumes you can take one of the variant classes with wildshape if you want to do it entirely without casting. The wild shape ranger would be ideal.

If you want to be a beatstick at least make sure you can kill a CR17 dragon with one full attack :)

Dusk Eclipse
2009-11-19, 06:59 PM
Well, since all your feats regarding weapons say 'scimitar' I figured that was what you're going to use- I appreciate people thinking I have the intelligence of a toddler and thus return the favor by not assuming they'll take weapon focus in things they're not using.

You're averaging 31.5 damage with your main, 26.5 with your off, and 10.5 with your bite, assuming dervish dance with skirmish and no additional bonuses. With as many dice as you're rolling, the results stick pretty close to the bell curve. So, I'm sure you think that's freaking awesome and you'll be the envy of the party- but at level 17 in gestalt? If it's not a cakewalk to take Balors and the like, you have a problem. The key problem with two weapons is that, to offset the fact that several of your attacks are simply not going to land due to miss chances and bad rolls, you need high levels of bonus damage and you simply don't have it, especially if you fight constructs, undead, or fortified enemies who ignore your skirmish damage entirely.

In gestalt, you need to do something other than just be good with locks/traps (not that you shine in that area either) and your damage is really not impressive considering that's supposed to be your thing.

Some more reasonable suggestions:
-I know you're taking ranger for the skirmish improvements, but it's really not all that, consider dropping it once you qualify for other stuff.
-Taking two PrCs at once is huge. Take advantage of that.
-Tome of Battle. If you're a high level melee character, it can make a lot of things that otherwise aren't worthwhile shine, even if you don't use the classes themselves.
-Rage is an easy increase in combat effectiveness, and as a lycanthrope there's little flavor reason not to have it.
-If you must have dervish, look up the WotC forums handbook on optimization. It's a cool class, but it's not a powerful class. And you really should take more levels of it if you're going to dip in it at all.
-Why aren't you putting your ability scores in things you're using? Unless you were forced to use those scores, how they fit your character boggles the mind. If you want to play a smart, charismatic, incredibly discerning character, then why not actually take advantage of those qualities when it comes to your classes?

First of all, I am sorry if my post above ofended you, I just assumed that as I sometimes read the post a bit too fast and I miss crucial information an that it may have happened to you.

The problem with taking another prestige class is that the animal HD and th LA take just too much, and black blood cultist is a way for me to take the best qualities of my animal form in hybrid form.

I am not a good optimizer so all your imput is greatley apreciated,



Not even blade magic, binding, incarnum?


To be honest I complete forgot about those ^^U