Ruby Knight Vindicator with dual Sunblades?

[Longcat]

Hi all,
I've thought about building a RKV with dual Sunblades. Basically, Sunblades (and their lesser version in "Expedition to Castle Ravenloft") count as both Short Swords and Bastard Swords, therefore they're Shadow Hand weapons and can be used in TWF with lesser penalty. The idea is to combine Assassin Stance(ToB)+Craven(CoR)+Holy Warrior(CC) to get a damage output on par with THF. For this exercise, let's assume we're playing in a T1-2 game, e.g. Druids are not forced to take the gimped PHB2 variant and DMM(Persist) with a single Nightstick is not frowned upon. Also, Divine Impetus only works once per round, and TWF is a single feat.

Build thus far (for L12):
Human Cloistered Cleric4/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator7
Feats:
1: Two-Weapon Fighting, Extend Spell(Domain), Knowledge Devotion(Domain), Persistent Spell(Human)
3: DMM(Persist)
6: Shadow Blade
9: Holy Warrior
12: Craven

Any suggestions on the equipment (other than 2 Sunblades)? Critiques for the build?

[IthilanorStPete]

Definitely grab a pair of flaws so you can get the feats you need earlier.

[Longcat]

Definitely grab a pair of flaws so you can get the feats you need earlier.

Sorry, forgot to mention, Flaws are unfortunately not allowed.

[Starbuck_II]

Hi all,
I've thought about building a RKV with dual Sunblades. Basically, Sunblades (and their lesser version in "Expedition to Castle Ravenloft") count as both Short Swords and Bastard Swords, therefore they're Shadow Hand weapons and can be used in TWF with lesser penalty. The idea is to combine Assassin Stance(ToB)+Craven(CoR)+Holy Warrior(CC) to get a damage output on par with THF. For this exercise, let's assume we're playing in a T1-2 game, e.g. Druids are not forced to take the gimped PHB2 variant and DMM(Persist) with a single Nightstick is not frowned upon. Also, Divine Impetus only works once per round, and TWF is a single feat.

Build thus far (for L12):
Human Cloistered Cleric4/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator7
Feats:
1: Two-Weapon Fighting, Extend Spell(Domain), Knowledge Devotion(Domain), Persistent Spell(Human)
3: DMM(Persist)
6: Shadow Blade
9: Holy Warrior
12: Craven

Any suggestions on the equipment (other than 2 Sunblades)? Critiques for the build?

Any chance you'll get gloves of balanced hand (magic item compendruim)? They give you TWFing or Improved TWF (if you have TWF) feat.

[Longcat]

Hmm, good idea. I'll look into it. However, loosing Gloves of Storing kind hurts, since you can't effectively Quickdraw or change from TWF to THF for charges in a swift action (Assassin Stance->Leading the Charge, utilizing a single Sunblade).

[Sinfire Titan]

Hmm, good idea. I'll look into it. However, loosing Gloves of Storing kind hurts, since you can't effectively Quickdraw or change from TWF to THF for charges in a swift action (Assassin Stance->Leading the Charge, utilizing a single Sunblade).

A Weapon Crystal in the MiC gives permanent Quickdraw, IIRC.

[FinalJustice]

Besides, as per MiC rules and a little extra cash, you can stack magic items effects.

Besides#2, those crystals not only give ya Quickdraw, but their greater version bestow the Returning property and you can teletinetically recover your weapons from a certain distance. Gotta love MiC.

[Cieyrin]

Hmm, good idea. I'll look into it. However, loosing Gloves of Storing kind hurts, since you can't effectively Quickdraw or change from TWF to THF for charges in a swift action (Assassin Stance->Leading the Charge, utilizing a single Sunblade).

The Kimono of Storing from Oriental Adventures is better for your purposes, anyways, as what are you using your vest slot for, really, as well as being able to legally store 2 items, as technically, much to my chagrin, you can't have 2 Gloves of Storing equipped and have them both function. Stupid Rules Compendium.:smallfurious:

[Darrin]

Hmm, good idea. I'll look into it. However, loosing Gloves of Storing kind hurts, since you can't effectively Quickdraw or change from TWF to THF for charges in a swift action (Assassin Stance->Leading the Charge, utilizing a single Sunblade).

First, if you are going to use a Glove of Storing, use Glove of the Master Strategist instead (Ghostwalk p. 71, 3600 GP).

Second, if you need your gloves slot for something else and you don't have an easy way to pick up an extra pair of hands, consider the Kimono of Storing from Oriental Adventures. Works like two gloves (or rather, two sleeves), and I believe it uses the body/vest slot. OA lists the price at 4400 GP, and although the Web Errata for OA does not mention a price change, the 3.5 update printed in Dragon #318 upped the price to 20000 GP. So if your DM disallows Dragon material, you may get a great bargain there... or then again, even at 20K, the free actions are probably worth it.

[herrhauptmann]

I know your armor can have a 'called' enchantment placed on it. What about weapons? It would cost a little more, but it will free up your glove slot, especially good if your DM won't allow item stacking.

What does 'holy warrior' do? Also recommend getting the following:
Darkstalker feat. Now your hide skill works vs blindsight, tremorsense, etc.
Everbright weapon. The DC13 ref save is useless, and with usual luck only your allies will fail their saves. But the immunity to acid/rust damage is very nice.

If your DM is allowing good amounts of cheese, I'd expect evil tactics like disjunction or item destruction out of your villains (maybe only boss-types, but still...)

[Longcat]

What does 'holy warrior' do?


It adds bonus damage equal to the highest War Domain spell you have memorized.

[herrhauptmann]

It adds bonus damage equal to the highest War Domain spell you have memorized.

Ahh, it sounds almost like a reserve feat, but for warriors :) Cool stuff

[Longcat]

Ahh, it sounds almost like a reserve feat, but for warriors :) Cool stuff

In fact, it is a reserve feat (from Complete Champion). IMO, it's what weapon specialization should have been.

[Haven]

Bracers go in the arms slot, not the gloves slot right? In which case, if you're not using those for anything else, you should definitely pick up Tiger Claw bracers to grab one of the Tiger Claw two-weapon strikes.

[Cieyrin]

Bracers go in the arms slot, not the gloves slot right? In which case, if you're not using those for anything else, you should definitely pick up Tiger Claw bracers to grab one of the Tiger Claw two-weapon strikes.

Bracers indeed go in the Arms slot, not the Hand slot.

[Akal Saris]

I think it's a cool idea, though I'm not sure if its worth the investment. RKV also has access to Thicket of Blades as a stance, and most strikes are standard actions - and by higher levels, you'd have better things to do using your cleric spells, than hit somebody for double sneak attack.

As far as suggestions, you might consider going into legacy champion if the DM allowed it to progress RKV, and use the two sunblades as legacy weapons. Overall it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble, given that you're sacrificing 2 more CLs and whatnot, but it might fit the character.

[Cieyrin]

I think it's a cool idea, though I'm not sure if its worth the investment. RKV also has access to Thicket of Blades as a stance, and most strikes are standard actions - and by higher levels, you'd have better things to do using your cleric spells, than hit somebody for double sneak attack.

As far as suggestions, you might consider going into legacy champion if the DM allowed it to progress RKV, and use the two sunblades as legacy weapons. Overall it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble, given that you're sacrificing 2 more CLs and whatnot, but it might fit the character.

How, praytell, are you treating Sunblades as Legacy Weapons? 0_o