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HasegawaTakumi
2009-11-19, 09:30 AM
I remember seeing a belt that gives +6 to all ability scores, but I can't seem to find it... Does anyone know if it exists and where I can find it?

kamikasei
2009-11-19, 09:33 AM
Is it the belt of magnificence in the Miniatures Handbook (assuming 3.5)?

Johel
2009-11-19, 09:35 AM
Don't know.

But if it exist, the price should be around 306.000 gp, according to the "Creating Magic Items" section of the SRD.
That means epic item.

Sliver
2009-11-19, 09:36 AM
Belt of Magnificence from the Miniatures Handbook, page 42. Price: 25,000 gp (+2), 100,000 gp (+4) or 200,000 gp (+6).

Ninja, oh ninja..

Kylarra
2009-11-19, 11:59 AM
Don't know.

But if it exist, the price should be around 306.000 gp, according to the "Creating Magic Items" section of the SRD.
That means epic item.Belt of Magnificence is actually cheaper simply because very few characters can actually make use of all 6 abilities, so you end up paying a lot for a few extra miscellaneous +3 mods.

ken-do-nim
2009-11-19, 12:04 PM
Is the Miniatures Handbook official 3.5 or is it 3.0? There were also some powerful multi-ability enhancers in Sword & Fist.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-11-19, 12:37 PM
It is official for 3.5 I think

Zaydos
2009-11-19, 12:39 PM
It's 3.5... and now I want that belt it looks pretty.

Emmerask
2009-11-19, 12:40 PM
Always thought that Miniatures handbook was intended for wargame gameplay (like warhammer) and not for the usual d&d game ?

Zaydos
2009-11-19, 12:43 PM
Introduced 4 new core classes and prestige classes, as well as magic items and feats for the normal game but also included the rules for a simplified miniatures game... only thing I ever use from it is the Marshal, and mocking the Healer class (although it also was the original source of Warmage and Favored Soul). It's one of the very first 3.5 books and is rather eh.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-11-19, 12:43 PM
It has many informartion on the D&D miniature game but it has a chapter (or more I am AFB) that has some stuff for the RPG, the healer for example is a base class found there

Edit: Ninja'ed

Ecalsneerg
2009-11-19, 12:44 PM
Not necessarily, it has plenty of tabletop stuff (although usually with a more warfare-aimed bent). Things like the Marshall base class (and I think Healer), and PrCs like Warhulk.

EDIT: Double ninja'd

Emmerask
2009-11-19, 12:46 PM
ok I donīt own the book and didnīt know about the classes/prestige classes.
The belt seems nice for monks (and other MAD classes) though :smallbiggrin:

Curmudgeon
2009-11-19, 12:46 PM
Don't know.

But if it exist, the price should be around 306.000 gp, according to the "Creating Magic Items" section of the SRD.
That means epic item.
You're behind on the rules. Magic Item Handbook removed the premium for ability enhancements in common item locations, which puts the price for 6 +6 enhancements at 6 * 36,000 gp = 216,000 gp. The Belt of Magnificence has a small discount because most characters won't get full value from boosting all 6 stats.

Xaklin_Magewrit
2009-11-19, 05:41 PM
A monk can benefit from a Belt of Magnifince +6 since it easier to get a useless +6 to charisma but a +6 to all other stats is seems greats.

Draz74
2009-11-19, 05:45 PM
A monk can benefit from a Belt of Magnifince +6 since it easier to get a useless +6 to charisma but a +6 to all other stats is seems greats.

Meh, Monks only care about Intelligence for the sake of skill points, which Belt of Magnificence doesn't affect. Monks are probably better off buying +4/+6 items for the other four stats separately.

jmbrown
2009-11-19, 05:48 PM
The Miniatures Handbook, while 3.5, has a lot of broken powers and abilities. A lot of disgusting teleporting spells that let you swap allies and enemies freely around the battlefield and the "legion" line of spells which give penalties to entire groups of enemies (no save). I really can't recommend the book for non-wargame play.

The Glyphstone
2009-11-19, 06:52 PM
The Miniatures Handbook, while 3.5, has a lot of broken powers and abilities. A lot of disgusting teleporting spells that let you swap allies and enemies freely around the battlefield and the "legion" line of spells which give penalties to entire groups of enemies (no save). I really can't recommend the book for non-wargame play.

Most of those got reprinted in Spell Compendium anyways as "Mass X" instead of "Legion's X". It does have the Marshal and War-Hulk though.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-19, 07:00 PM
What's so disgusting about the teleportation spells?
And the Legion's X spells were reprinted in SC, along with the transposition spells. They might have had saves, I don't know; I've not yet had use for them.

Thurbane
2009-11-19, 08:28 PM
It's a nice item for the ultimate MAD character: Monk/Warmage/Enlighened Fist (or gestalt Monk//Warmage)! :smalltongue:

...and yes, MH is one of the most overlooked 3.5 books - as witnessed above, a lot of people don't realize it has material other than mini-specific. I like to throw monsters from the MH at the players every now and then, since most people don't know about them (I'm a big fan of Scaled Stalkers with class levels).

ken-do-nim
2009-11-19, 08:34 PM
See because the warmage was later reprinted in Complete Arcane, I wasn't sure if that was a straight reprint or a 3.0 to 3.5 update.

CockroachTeaParty
2009-11-19, 09:20 PM
Wow... I've never looked at Warhulk before. At first I was like, 'bwuh? No BAB progression?' And then I saw the +2 STR every level... That's a pretty crazy class. I kept thinking of Sauron in the opening scenes of the first LotR movie, with that big nasty mace...

I might just have to make one of those now. Muhuhahahaha... :smallamused:

jmbrown
2009-11-19, 09:29 PM
What's so disgusting about the teleportation spells?
And the Legion's X spells were reprinted in SC, along with the transposition spells. They might have had saves, I don't know; I've not yet had use for them.

They give even more power to wizards even though the minis line was, ironically, more focused on melee fighters and tactics given magic is hard to use in the tight confines of the default maps. Wizards pretty much ruled battlefield control. Imagine an easy dimension door that could also affect multiple party members but with shorter range.

The legion spells, with their lack of saves, were designed to nickel and dime enemies with a -2 penalty here and there.

Dairun Cates
2009-11-19, 11:52 PM
Belt of Magnificence is actually cheaper simply because very few characters can actually make use of all 6 abilities, so you end up paying a lot for a few extra miscellaneous +3 mods.

It's also ONE SLOT and therefore should be gaining a lot of that back. Not having to use up your other slots leads up to some real insanity. Also, there's quite a few people that can certainly make use of a +6 to at least 4 of those abilities. So, a 1/3 discount doesn't do much to deter.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-20, 12:24 AM
It's also ONE SLOT and therefore should be gaining a lot of that back. Not having to use up your other slots leads up to some real insanity. Also, there's quite a few people that can certainly make use of a +6 to at least 4 of those abilities. So, a 1/3 discount doesn't do much to deter.MIC rules for combining, not the stupid DMG ones. The price would only be 216, not 306, so 200 is fair, especially considering how few characters use all stats. Cha and Int are both used for skill checks, class features, and nothing else, and Wis only adds one save to that. How many classes require 3 mental stats for their class features, and still have a use for Str?

Zaq
2009-11-20, 12:53 AM
MIC rules for combining, not the stupid DMG ones. The price would only be 216, not 306, so 200 is fair, especially considering how few characters use all stats. Cha and Int are both used for skill checks, class features, and nothing else, and Wis only adds one save to that. How many classes require 3 mental stats for their class features, and still have a use for Str?

3.0 Psions?

Curmudgeon
2009-11-20, 12:56 AM
It's also ONE SLOT and therefore should be gaining a lot of that back. Not having to use up your other slots leads up to some real insanity.
The slots are entirely a non-issue, as enhancements to all ability scores can be added to existing items in many slots. For instance: CON enhancements can be in Throat, Torso, or Waist; and STR enhancements can be in Arms, Hands, or Waist; there's no price premium for those enhancements in any of their standard locations, no matter how many other magical enhancements you've got there. Whether you place all boosts in one slot or in multiples doesn't change the basic fact that ability enhancements

don't have a price premium
don't conflict with other magical properties
Please check Magic Item Compendium for the rules; they're on just two pages (233-234).

Coidzor
2009-11-20, 01:13 AM
Wait. So I could make a hand of glory double as a periapt of health(or whatever the +2,+4,+6 CON item is called)?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-20, 01:14 AM
Indeed you could.

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 01:30 AM
Yep, it's a nice rule - you can have the mandatory stat and AC boosters, and still have interesting items! :smallcool:

Hida Reju
2009-11-20, 01:34 AM
The +6 belt is way over priced compared to utility but the +4 belt for half the price at 100k is actually not as bad a choice IMO.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-20, 01:37 AM
The +6 belt is way over priced compared to utility but the +4 belt for half the price at 100k is actually not as bad a choice IMO.Actually, it's worse. 16*6=96. The belt is overpriced at +4.

I personally would go with 20K, 80K, and 180K as the right value for the belts, and most of the time I'd still not buy them for my PCs.

tyckspoon
2009-11-20, 01:39 AM
The +6 belt is way over priced compared to utility but the +4 belt for half the price at 100k is actually not as bad a choice IMO.

With MIC stacking rules in play it's a horrible deal. The +6 still saves you a bit of money with those rules; +4 at 100k actually charges you for the convenience. If they're not in use I could see some use, but.. really, I'm pretty sure any group that is using the Miniatures Handbook of all things probably won't mind using the MIC.

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 01:40 AM
36*6 = 216k so the +6 Belt saves some money, but only if you need +6 to all stats. If you can make do with even one stat at under +6, you should go with individual boosts instead. And let's face it, there are no characters who need +6 to all stats. So it's usually slightly suboptimal, while still incredibly cool.

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 01:44 AM
36*6 = 216k so the +6 Belt saves some money, but only if you need +6 to all stats. If you can make do with even one stat at under +6, you should go with individual boosts instead. And let's face it, there are no characters who need +6 to all stats. So it's usually slightly suboptimal, while still incredibly cool.
Ahem!

It's a nice item for the ultimate MAD character: Monk/Warmage/Enlighened Fist (or gestalt Monk//Warmage)! :smalltongue:

:smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 01:44 AM
Ahem!

:smallbiggrin:

I deny that monstrosity characterhood. It is an abomination, not a character!

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 01:48 AM
You know, I'm gonna have to build one now!

tyckspoon
2009-11-20, 01:54 AM
I deny that monstrosity characterhood. It is an abomination, not a character!

How about.. a Swashbuckler (Int)/ Swordsage (Wis) using Shadow Blade (more-than-usual Dex)? Can't think of a practical way to make Cha useful in this.. I think there were some gauntlets somewhere that would add your Cha mod as fire damage to your attacks?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-20, 02:05 AM
How about.. a Swashbuckler (Int)/ Swordsage (Wis) using Shadow Blade (more-than-usual Dex)? Can't think of a practical way to make Cha useful in this.. I think there were some gauntlets somewhere that would add your Cha mod as fire damage to your attacks?Fun fact, AFAIK you can qualify for Daring Outlaw with Assassin's Stance. Not sure how the stacking would work, but it's possible.

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 02:23 AM
How about.. a Swashbuckler (Int)/ Swordsage (Wis) using Shadow Blade (more-than-usual Dex)? Can't think of a practical way to make Cha useful in this.. I think there were some gauntlets somewhere that would add your Cha mod as fire damage to your attacks?
Slippers of Battledancing (DMG II p.272). (FWIW, these should give a bonus to Intimidate - "That guy is dancing into battle in a pair of slippers! He must be maaad!"). Throw in some Bard and Snowflake Wardance! :smallbiggrin:

tyckspoon
2009-11-20, 03:45 AM
Slippers of Battledancing (DMG II p.272). (FWIW, these should give a bonus to Intimidate - "That guy is dancing into battle in a pair of slippers! He must be maaad!"). Throw in some Bard and Snowflake Wardance! :smallbiggrin:

I was thinking about those, but I wasn't sure if they add Charisma or substitute it. Very relevant difference when you're deliberately trying to generate as much MAD as you can.

Draz74
2009-11-20, 01:00 PM
Multiclassed Tome of Battle characters make it easy to have a good use for all stats. Warblade/Swordsage with Imperious Command, for example -- plenty of use for all six stats.

Not that even that kind of character wouldn't be able to deal with "just" a +4 to his Intelligence or Charisma. The Belt would still probably be slightly unoptimal.

Cieyrin
2009-11-20, 01:09 PM
I think I'd rather just Clericzilla it up with DMM(Persist), Ability Enhancer (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Ability_Enhancer) and Chasing Perfection for my +6 to all stats. :smallbiggrin:

Stegyre
2009-11-20, 02:17 PM
I think I'd rather just Clericzilla it up with DMM(Persist), Ability Enhancer and Chasing Perfection for my +6 to all stats. :smallbiggrin:
A. Persist cannot be used on the Bull's, etc., line of spells, as they do not have a range of "touch" or fixed range.

B. GitP does not approve of linking to that-web-site-you-linked (as I learned from my own experience) (Not that I'm trying to play enforcer, here, but since I seldom review my own posts, it took me a while to realize that the mod was "scrubbing" them, so I just wanted you to avoid my own embarrassment. :smallsmile:)

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 02:22 PM
Actually, I suppose a Knowledge Devotion-build of a Cloistered Cleric DMM: Persist + Divine Spell Power Zilla would be able to utilize all 6 stat improvements...if it weren't for the fact that he can just boost ~3-4 of the stats without items just fine. Yay for proving myself wrong!

Draz74
2009-11-20, 02:37 PM
a Knowledge Devotion-build of a Cloistered Cleric DMM: Persist + Divine Spell Power Zilla would be able to utilize all 6 stat improvements...

Meh, unless you're trying to pull off archery and melee, you won't need both Strength and Dexterity high.

Cieyrin
2009-11-20, 03:01 PM
A. Persist cannot be used on the Bull's, etc., line of spells, as they do not have a range of "touch" or fixed range.

B. GitP does not approve of linking to that-web-site-you-linked (as I learned from my own experience) (Not that I'm trying to play enforcer, here, but since I seldom review my own posts, it took me a while to realize that the mod was "scrubbing" them, so I just wanted you to avoid my own embarrassment. :smallsmile:)

I've linked Realms Help for feats since I've joined without Mods getting upset at me, though this could just be recent policy changes that I've apparently missed.

In any case, I guess I missed that Touch spells are persistable, so oh wells on that bit. :smallannoyed:

EDIT:
Meh, unless you're trying to pull off archery and melee, you won't need both Strength and Dexterity high.

What about Composite bows for Str to damage? The only archer type I'm aware of off-hand that gets full single stat to ranged attacks is Soulbow with Zen Archery for Wis to attack and damage, as well as the most common archers are bow users, Strength remains fairly relevant for them.

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 03:14 PM
Meh, unless you're trying to pull off archery and melee, you won't need both Strength and Dexterity high.

Eh, Monk's Belt it up and you'll get huge AC bonuses from Dex improvements and yeah. Also, Initiative, Combat Reflexes and company. Dex is always nice. And Archer Cleric obviously needs both for the mentioned reason of needing Str for damage and Dex for To Hit.

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 06:18 PM
I still say my Monk/Warmage is the ultimate MAD, except that Kung Fu Genius/Carmedine Monk can drop the need for WIS. :smalltongue: