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View Full Version : The Evil Party Sucks at Being Evil, Please Help



root9125
2009-11-19, 11:04 AM
So, my players have gone evil, joined a cult of necromancers, and are working on taking over the world. Lots of assassinations and various and assorted destruction.

Anyway, they're careless. They've left behind all kinds of things that should make the enemy's (the GOOD GUYS') scry & die tactics extremely easy (names, pieces of hair and blood, etc).

Obviously, something has to happen. The party's level 8-9. The setting is high-magic. What exactly makes it possible for the party to survive their carelessness, while being certain to not let it happen again?

How do I justify the armies of good NOT sending some crazy-huge force? How do I make this punitive strike a level appropriate encounter? I have an anti-party statted and ready to go, but is that too cliche? What do I do?

Gamerlord
2009-11-19, 11:06 AM
........Let the dice roll where they may!

Perhaps the <insert good nation> is on a budget?

Telonius
2009-11-19, 11:08 AM
So, my players have gone evil, joined a cult of necromancers, and are working on taking over the world. Lots of assassinations and various and assorted destruction.

Anyway, they're careless. They've left behind all kinds of things that should make the enemy's (the GOOD GUYS') scry & die tactics extremely easy (names, pieces of hair and blood, etc).

Obviously, something has to happen. The party's level 8-9. The setting is high-magic. What exactly makes it possible for the party to survive their carelessness, while being certain to not let it happen again?

How do I justify the armies of good NOT sending some crazy-huge force? How do I make this punitive strike a level appropriate encounter? I have an anti-party statted and ready to go, but is that too cliche? What do I do?

Sting operation by Grey Guards. They know who these jokers are, but they want to know who they're working for. So, they sit and wait and watch. Maybe give some advance warning to the bad guys' next target.

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-19, 11:08 AM
Hmm... You wouldn't happen to have a party of three, with a fourth pending? Maybe containing a friendly halfling and an undead whom plays at being an old man by any chance?

wormwood
2009-11-19, 11:09 AM
I would, instead of sending an anti-party, send in one higher level vigilante-type. Through his dialog, I'd make it known how easy it was to find them (thus encouraging them to be more cautious) and then proceed to wipe the floor with them. Since it's only one guy, they should be able to take him if you don't make him TOO much higher level. You're justified in not sending a mob because this guy got the evidence first and didn't share. The party gets a butt-kicking and a valuable lesson.

Also, if they manage to defeat, but not kill, this guy then they'll have more incentive to watch their backs. Paranoia for the win!

Tiki Snakes
2009-11-19, 11:10 AM
Have a single, slightly crazy Evil Rival track them down. Make sure he clearly has little in the way of resources, but have him point out how easy it was to find them. He should be a reasonably tough encounter, nothing too much, but take them at an opportune time, like during their nap-time or shortly after a bigger fight.

They should struggle, but win. Have a moment to process the implications; With few resources this nutcase was able to track us down and, through careful timing, nearly take us. The 'Good Guys' have many times the resources, and the benefit of not being nutjobs. :smalleek:

That's the idea, anyway.

[edit] Also what Wormwood said.

bosssmiley
2009-11-19, 11:12 AM
Team Good will send a small, motley band of squabbling anti-heroes who will triumph against the odds and despite themselves. That is how D&D works. :smallwink:

HamHam
2009-11-19, 11:14 AM
Kill them all and restart the campaign in Baator.

dsmiles
2009-11-19, 11:15 AM
........Let the dice roll where they may!

Seconded. They should fail (read: die). If they are incapable of serving the Greater Evil, the Greater Evil has never felt bad about throwing people under the bus...

Optimystik
2009-11-19, 11:39 AM
I would, instead of sending an anti-party, send in one higher level vigilante-type. Through his dialog, I'd make it known how easy it was to find them (thus encouraging them to be more cautious) and then proceed to wipe the floor with them. Since it's only one guy, they should be able to take him if you don't make him TOO much higher level. You're justified in not sending a mob because this guy got the evidence first and didn't share. The party gets a butt-kicking and a valuable lesson.

Also, if they manage to defeat, but not kill, this guy then they'll have more incentive to watch their backs. Paranoia for the win!

This,


Seconded. They should fail (read: die). If they are incapable of serving the Greater Evil, the Greater Evil has never felt bad about throwing people under the bus...

followed by this,


Kill them all and restart the campaign in Baator.

followed by this. Assuming they don't get the message after step 1, that is.

Roderick_BR
2009-11-19, 12:01 PM
Have a party of good guys attack them. This party would be a slightly lower level. Since they'll be ready to attack the group, they'll have an edge, and be a rough fight. Just sit back and watch your group kicking themselves for almost being owneds by people weaker than them. If they want to be evil, let them work for it.

Dixieboy
2009-11-19, 12:02 PM
Kill them all and restart the campaign in Baator.

So because they fail at being subtle you send them to the headquarters of subtle badassery?

dsmiles
2009-11-19, 12:07 PM
The Greater Evil could always start sacrificing incompetent minions to summon the Elder Evils from beyond the stars. That may put the fear of Cthulhu in them.

tarbrush
2009-11-19, 12:07 PM
So because they fail at being subtle you send them to the headquarters of subtle badassery?

No-one would see it coming :)

mikeejimbo
2009-11-19, 02:25 PM
I have to admit that when I read the thread title I expected something along the lines of "The party is evil but they keep helping old ladies across the street, donating to orphanages and petting kittens."

Well, not that exaggerated, but still.

Anyway, the above ideas seem good. The reason Team Good isn't sending the army is because they clearly don't need to. These guys aren't that much of a threat. (Or so they think. Though they may be right.)

dsmiles
2009-11-19, 02:30 PM
@mikeejimbo:
I know you...you're...you're...the Fool, aren't you?

Ormagoden
2009-11-19, 02:31 PM
I would, instead of sending an anti-party, send in one higher level vigilante-type. Through his dialog, I'd make it known how easy it was to find them (thus encouraging them to be more cautious) and then proceed to wipe the floor with them. Since it's only one guy, they should be able to take him if you don't make him TOO much higher level. You're justified in not sending a mob because this guy got the evidence first and didn't share. The party gets a butt-kicking and a valuable lesson.

Also, if they manage to defeat, but not kill, this guy then they'll have more incentive to watch their backs. Paranoia for the win!

2) ???
3) Profit!

Great advice!

mikeejimbo
2009-11-19, 02:49 PM
@mikeejimbo:
I know you...you're...you're...the Fool, aren't you?

Probably, though you'd have to be more specific.

dyslexicfaser
2009-11-19, 03:50 PM
I would, instead of sending an anti-party, send in one higher level vigilante-type. Through his dialog, I'd make it known how easy it was to find them (thus encouraging them to be more cautious) and then proceed to wipe the floor with them. Since it's only one guy, they should be able to take him if you don't make him TOO much higher level. You're justified in not sending a mob because this guy got the evidence first and didn't share. The party gets a butt-kicking and a valuable lesson.

Also, if they manage to defeat, but not kill, this guy then they'll have more incentive to watch their backs. Paranoia for the win!

Send in the Goddamn Batman.

Dust
2009-11-19, 03:58 PM
I agree with Vigilante Batman and also that - if you don't pull your punches and they die, they should wake up in one of the circles of hell and the campaign should continue. With the possibility of 'escape.' THAT would be memorable.

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-19, 04:08 PM
I agree with Vigilante Batman and also that - if you don't pull your punches and they die, they should wake up in one of the circles of hell and the campaign should continue. With the possibility of 'escape.' THAT would be memorable.

Sounds fun.

Also, if they are not going to be good at being evil (not an oxymoron), punish them by turning it into a reflection of a good campaign. Make them have to level up to fight the good overlord. Make everything cliché that applies to good be in the campaign reversed.

Radar
2009-11-19, 04:08 PM
Send in the Goddamn Batman.
Who would try to capture the party, so he can gain information about PC's eployers. If it comes to TPK anyway, then Dust has a great idea.

Heck, the necromantic cult, could change the wiped party into some sentient undead - recycling is, what necromancers do on a daily basis.

Optimystik
2009-11-19, 04:08 PM
You don't even have to go all the way to hell - Batman would beat them all up and throw them in jail (Arkham.) The campaign could then still turn to "escape!" without all the complications that being in Baator or undead would entail.

dyslexicfaser
2009-11-19, 04:10 PM
Ooh, having to break away from some necromancer's control as a zombie or skeleton... cool.

herrhauptmann
2009-11-19, 07:16 PM
Been reading Solomon Kane by Robert E Howard (author of Conan)...
One vigilante who believes he's got the might of right on his side, and is suitably badass and slightly insane himself.
In most of his stories, he tends to spend years on a quest. For instance, in France finds a girl lying on the side of the road, she dies in his arms speaking the name of the bandit who violated and killed her.

Kane then spends the next 3 months picking off bandits. Sets a trap and kills most of them. Then goes after the remainder.
Leader escapes, and Kane spends the next 2 years tracking him. To England, Portugal, Venice, and on into darkest africa.


Or 3 years tracking a pirate from the caribbean to the baltic to the English channel...

Barbarian MD
2009-11-19, 07:30 PM
Root, is this a PbP game, or a real-life game?

Because if it's PbP, I nominate one of the above people to be the damn Batman. :smallbiggrin:

Karoht
2009-11-19, 07:32 PM
Hmm, not cliche?

Okay, so these guys get sent by the evil cult to go and take some town to the ground. Seems like a really easy mission.

Have one old lady NPC, who they'll think is harmless. And that is what they will think when they see her old hunchbacked self.

Until she curses them. A lot. Pick really annoying but not crippling curses. Curses are rather open ended anyway. Homebrew the spell a bit if you have to. The old lady just happens to have a wand of these bad boys, and just happens to use the last charge on the wand right before she's captured.
And then have their rear guard and their method of transporation cut off. And now they have to hoof it to get to any place that could remove these curses. Like back to their evil base for example.

Only now they can't teleport back. Or fly. All thanks to the curses that they just can't seem to get rid of due to a save DC that is just too darn high, or needs a specific component to dispell which they don't have access to. And their mounts and support staff are gone. Most likely their rations and water. Now make them return to base by crossing a swamp. A swamp home to a decent bunch of bandits, all of which are expert trackers. They can make fun of how easy it was to track them down, and lay out all the clues they left behind themselves.

Besides, it would be fun and ironic for the bad guys to get fleeced by more bad guys, just out to make a buck. Might make the party think for just a minute. Maybe.

Jothki
2009-11-19, 07:46 PM
You could have it so that the government is secretly tolerating their presence in order to gain some political advantage over its rivals, and is planning on disposing of them once they start causing more harm than benefit.

Otodetu
2009-11-19, 08:56 PM
Don't presume the forces of good have to many resources available, but if it's the case that the forces of good are overwhelmingly powerful in the area and able to send out a task-force to wipe out the bad guys like you imply, then maybe it's not easy to be evil there? (and thereby a bad place to place evil characters)

Presume that the forces of good are occupied with many other hassles; and sending a vigilante or a small investigation force is a great way to create some action for the players.

ravenkith
2009-11-19, 09:14 PM
Have the good guys sound a scouting party who drops hints that the reason the good guys haven't taken your PCs seriously is that there is an EVEN BIGGER threat from a completely separate group.

Then turn the campaign into Evil Vs. Evil, with good fighting both, and make it a two front war...in the process allowing you to show your boys how evil ought to be done....

Karoht
2009-11-19, 09:41 PM
You could have another evil NPC, who is perhaps a different shade of evil and working for a different goal/cause, make fun of them.

"Your not evil, your just anti-heroes with no style"

Magnor Criol
2009-11-19, 09:46 PM
In a reversal of suggestions, perhaps they are caught up to by a small party of low-level 'good guys'. These neophytes will get their butts kicked, naturally. Hopefully the party will be curious about why the government/Team Good/generic agency that opposes them sent such a pitifully weak group against them, and keep one alive to ask.

"Well, you guys were so sloppy and careless that we just naturally assumed that you guys were new at this, so they didn't think you were a threat worth sending trained professionals after you. So they sent us on a training mission to track you down."

Hit 'em where it hurts - their pride. :smallbiggrin: Not only has their sloppiness caused Team Good to assume they're weak, but Team Good deems them nothing worse than a training missions for the younglings.

dsmiles
2009-11-20, 05:04 AM
I still think the Greater Evil has no qualms about sacrificing incompetent minions to summon the Elder Gods.

Acanous
2009-11-20, 05:29 AM
Only now they can't teleport back. Or fly. ~Snip~ And their mounts and support staff are gone. Most likely their rations and water. Now make them return to base by crossing a swamp. A swamp home to a decent bunch of bandits Orcs, all of which are expert trackers. They can make fun of how easy it was to track them down, and lay out all the clues they left behind themselves.


This sounds familiar for some reason...

Me, I'd give them a "Higher Up" in the cult that they're working for. He'll berate them on doing a sloppy job, but then calm down and hear them out if they have an argument for why things had to be that way.
If they don't pick up thier act, then send in a ranger, archery spec. One level higher than highest level party member. Give him a +1 Mighty Longbow +2 and some Arrows of Disruption (For those pesky undead). Make his primary favoured enemy ALSO undead, and have him attack from 300 feet away. Give him the Sniping feat. Have him attack Stealthed. Don't forget about the range increment bonus to hide and move silently.

Once he drops one PC, (and hopefully the rest are smart enough to take cover and haul arse out of there) have him track them back to the base. He causes some serious trouble for the cult, the cult notices the PCs lead him right to thier stronghold. Party is in for a more serious punishment this time. Propably something to do with whips and a rack.

I'd suggest a Druid, but you don't want them ALL dead on round 1.

Voldecanter
2009-11-20, 10:11 AM
Since they are with the Necromancer Guild ....Don't you think that their 'masters' would want to shield their own identities and those of their cronies ....These Necromancers are using High Levels of Magic to save your party from the Good Wizards Scry and Die ! Just throw in a Exalted Wizard or Arcanist that managed to find your party with about 3 other paladins and 1 cleric for healing ....Let the SMITE EVIL Begin !

Kalirren
2009-11-20, 11:55 AM
This whole situation sounds perfect to me.

Have some evil Joker Bard be following them around and cleaning up after the traces they leave, with modify memory and that sort of thing, and then have this same Joker start blackmailing the party into doing things they may not want to be doing. As long as the party knows that some guy could just rattle them off to the actual authorities and send a scry-and-die party onto their heads at his option, but isn't because he wants the goons for himself, there'll be tension to spare without breaking verisimilitude.

Now that's a balance of power for you.

Karoht
2009-11-20, 04:40 PM
This whole situation sounds perfect to me.

Have some evil Joker Bard be following them around and cleaning up after the traces they leave, with modify memory and that sort of thing, and then have this same Joker start blackmailing the party into doing things...

Silly me. I'd forgotten all about blackmail. The other, other, other trick in the evil/anti-good handbook.

Brilliant Kalirren. Brilliant.