PDA

View Full Version : [4e] Lets make a Black Guard



Guinea Anubis
2009-11-19, 12:18 PM
I was reading Divine Power and it came to mind with some of the new power they have for Paladins it looks like you could make a good Black Guard. I had two or three ideas on builds, but I would like to see what you guys would pick to make a Black Guard, lets say starting at level 5.

Hal
2009-11-19, 12:38 PM
Actually, they just released an article on paladins of the Raven Queen, which gives a lot of frost/necrotic powers. You could easily take those and call yourself a Blackguard.

FoE
2009-11-19, 12:52 PM
How are we defining "blackguard" here? Because you can be a paladin of any god nowadays.

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-19, 01:23 PM
How are we defining "blackguard" here? Because you can be a paladin of any god nowadays.

Less healing more killing

A Paladin thats more about damage and self heal then helping his allies I guess. I know everyone has there own ideas on what a evil paladin would be like so I was trying to leave it open for personal interpretation.

Boci
2009-11-19, 01:27 PM
Less healing more killing

A Paladin thats more about damage and self heal then helping his allies I guess. I know everyone has there own ideas on what a evil paladin would be like so I was trying to leave it open for personal interpretation.

Avenger maybe?

Yakk
2009-11-19, 01:34 PM
Avenging paladin with necrotic powers and few heal allies powers ... works?

At one point, you'd have to refluff -- but by now, there are actually enough powers that I don't think you'd have to.

Mando Knight
2009-11-19, 01:51 PM
Definitely Ardent Vow rather than Virtue's Touch or Lay on Hands.

Gametime
2009-11-19, 02:58 PM
Take Ardent Vow. Change radiant damage in powers to necrotic. Done.

There's even a guideline for doing that in the DMG, I think. Or maybe the PHB. They basically suggest changing radiant to necrotic damage and going with an evil deity.

The idea of a "blackguard" is a holdover from the idea that paladins are good.

Asbestos
2009-11-19, 03:30 PM
What is with the whole Necrotic=Evil, Radiant=Good thing? I've never seen anything to indicate this. It seems to me that Radiant=Originates in the Astral Sea. Evil gods live there too you know. I think that the Raven Queen Paladin has Necrotic because well, she IS the goddess of death. I mean, I have no problem with a Paladin of Kord having Thunder powers instead of Radiant ones or a Paladin of some fire focused god having Fire powers but I think that Radiant is pretty much the default godly damage, good or evil.

Edit: Even angels can be evil now!

Artanis
2009-11-19, 03:34 PM
I don't think Radiant and Necrotic are supposed to be evil in and of themselves, it's just that good just so happens to use Radiant a lot while evil just so happens to use Necrotic a lot. That sort of deal.

Indon
2009-11-19, 03:45 PM
What is with the whole Necrotic=Evil, Radiant=Good thing?

Traditionally, good guys do not wield the power of undeath, and bad guys do not wield the power of light.

Mando Knight
2009-11-19, 04:04 PM
Traditionally, good guys do not wield the power of undeath, and bad guys do not wield the power of light.

Necrotic isn't the power of undeath, it's the power of death. It's the power that eats away at your very life. Raven Queen followers use it so they can reap your soul, while undead tend to use it because they tend to spread the death lingering in their bodies on to others.

Asbestos
2009-11-19, 04:24 PM
Traditionally, good guys do not wield the power of undeath, and bad guys do not wield the power of light.

Bad guys don't do they? (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor_the_Burning_Hate)

HMS Invincible
2009-11-19, 04:33 PM
edit, wrong thread.

Vic_Sage
2009-11-19, 04:38 PM
I don't think Radiant and Necrotic are supposed to be evil in and of themselves, it's just that good just so happens to use Radiant a lot while evil just so happens to use Necrotic a lot. That sort of deal.
Asmodeus, the biggest bad of the Evil Gods and a bunch of his underlings all use Radiant energy. Mainly as a screw you to the good guys.

kieza
2009-11-19, 04:52 PM
Radiant doesn't have to be bright and shiny. It can be cold, hard light, the magical equivalent of institutional fluorescent lighting. A while back I saw an illustration of the god Bane himself (FR) burning someone to ash with a bolt of greenish light from his hand.

If you don't mind a bit of silliness, it can also be hard radiation.

Inyssius Tor
2009-11-19, 05:42 PM
Asmodeus, the biggest bad of the Evil Gods and a bunch of his underlings all use Radiant energy. Mainly as a screw you to the good guys.

Well, they live on the Astral Sea. A god in 4e is like... a fire elemental Wu Jen, living in the Elemental Plane of Fire. Yeah, they could channel the icy, fiendish powers of Levistus, but... why? There's an awful lot of fire, like, right there; they're actually made of the fire; the fire recognizes them as its rightful master, and moves on their command; and, when you get right down to it, fire isn't exactly the wimpiest of elements to start with.

And radiant energy isn't good energy, it's just bright energy. It's the flashing dagger under Zehir's cloak of darkness (though Zehir admittedly does seek the Raven Queen's domain, because, y'know, he's the god of darkness and it's called the Shadowfell).


But anyway, um, yeah. Blackguard.

Asbestos
2009-11-19, 06:00 PM
Well, they live on the Astral Sea. A god in 4e is like... a fire elemental Wu Jen, living in the Elemental Plane of Fire. Yeah, they could channel the icy, fiendish powers of Levistus, but... why? There's an awful lot of fire, like, right there; they're actually made of the fire; the fire recognizes them as its rightful master, and moves on their command; and, when you get right down to it, fire isn't exactly the wimpiest of elements to start with.

And radiant energy isn't good energy, it's just bright energy. It's the flashing dagger under Zehir's cloak of darkness (though Zehir admittedly does seek the Raven Queen's domain, because, y'know, he's the god of darkness and it's called the Shadowfell).


But anyway, um, yeah. Blackguard.

Yeah, but this is key to making a Blackguard I think. If you're worshiping an Evil god just take the Ardent's Vow and call yourself a Blackguard, the sort of damage the powers do doesn't need to be changed.

Grynning
2009-11-19, 09:00 PM
Bane's Tactics is a pretty good Channel Divinity feat for a defender. Just in a few minutes messing with the character builder I came up with a couple build ideas for Paladins of Bane, a Human Str. based build and a Hobgoblin Cha based build.

You could do the same for any evildin. Just pick a deity, a race and some stats and it'll build itself, like any other 4th ed. character.

If you want to capture some of what the 3.5 blackguard did (which wasn't much to speak of, really), you could multiclass arcane (probably Warlock) and grab a familiar to represent a fiendish companion, or multiclass rogue for a little sneak attack.

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-20, 07:29 AM
I have a question for the build im putting together, does Tiamat have a Channel Divinity?

I ask because right now I have the idea in my head of a Dragonborn Paladin of Tiamat. I think if I pick powers that have the right feel to them I can make this paladin play like a blackguard.

Edit: These are the powers I am thinking of, they may not be the best pick but they just feel right to me.

Enfeebling strike
Bolstering Strike

Heedless fury
Invigorating Smite

Blood of the Mighty
Unrelenting Punishment

Bless Weapon


I was not sure on Unrelenting Punishment as Martyr's Retribution also kind of fits with how I think this guy should be.