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Human Paragon 3
2009-11-19, 01:13 PM
I have never seen a build that incorporates the bloodline rules from the Unearthed Arcana. Obviously this is because they're terrible. But I'm curious to see if anybody has ever made an attempt at optimizing a character using them. Alternatively, is there a homebrew that attempts to make them not suck so bad? One idea I had was to replace the "bloodline" levels with racial paragon levels and keep the rest the same.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-11-19, 01:41 PM
The actual benefits of bloodlines are minor; the real benefit is that they are added to any and all classes for the purposes of level-based calculations. Things like adding damage to a Hellfire Warlock, boosting an Ur-Priest's caster level, cheesing out the Devoted X or Aescetic X feats, and so on are the best uses for bloodlines; essentially, they're either useless or overpowering (especially in gestalt!) with no real middle ground.

Replacing the levels with racial paragon levels would work, or if you didn't want to have to brew up paragon classes for races without them you could always simply grant racial HD. You could also treat them like LA and let it be bought off.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-19, 02:12 PM
Major Titan Bloodline on a Tibbit Psywar with Reduction and the Giantkiller line. Then take Strongarm Bracers and use a Mouthpick weapon. GargantuanColossal Warhammer wielded by being held in the mouth of a Dimunitive Cat.

Optimystik
2009-11-19, 02:32 PM
Major Titan Bloodline on a Tibbit Psywar with Reduction and the Giantkiller line. Then take Strongarm Bracers and use a Mouthpick weapon. Gargantuan Warhammer wielded by being held in the mouth of a Dimunitive Cat.

Evil. Evil, evil, evil.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-19, 02:36 PM
Evil. Evil, evil, evil.Worse, the reason I went Strongarm was because that makes the weapon Colossal. 6d6 damage just from the weapon. The only problem is carrying the dratted thing.

dsmiles
2009-11-19, 02:39 PM
I'm not an optimizer, but I played a Half-Orc Barbarian with a Major Titan Bloodline, and 3 Half-Orc Paragon, 3 Human Paragon Levels...turned out to be a pretty strong dude.

Darrin
2009-11-19, 03:46 PM
I have never seen a build that incorporates the bloodline rules from the Unearthed Arcana. Obviously this is because they're terrible. But I'm curious to see if anybody has ever made an attempt at optimizing a character using them.

You can use Bloodline levels to get early access to 9th level maneuvers in ToB. Or get infinite damage (1d2 Crusader) around ECL 9th. But I've never really seen a build actually use them... even on the ToB Build Compendium, they're generally a step beyond "theoretical"... even hardcore optimizers tend to stay away from them.

Oh, I think I have seen a War Weaver build use bloodline levels.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-11-19, 05:53 PM
You can use Bloodline levels to get early access to 9th level maneuvers in ToB. Or get infinite damage (1d2 Crusader) around ECL 9th. But I've never really seen a build actually use them... even on the ToB Build Compendium, they're generally a step beyond "theoretical"... even hardcore optimizers tend to stay away from them.

Oh, I think I have seen a War Weaver build use bloodline levels.

*raises hand*

I use them for bad guys in my high-power campaigns which I run occasionally, just for a change of pace--particularly in gestalt, where most PCs and NPCs are really versatile. In my current campaign I have one guy, a telekinesis master, with an effective binder level of 80 at 15th level which lets him bind Ronove to move 1.5 million pounds of stuff at 160 feet per round. Practical? Not really. Combat-effective? He can bull rush you with an effective +37 Str mod, but that's about it. Intimidating? Hells yes. Of course, the PCs are doing things like triple-casting builds, Batman wizards, and so on, so even with one really amazing trick they're not all that impressive.

None of these NPCs are ones the party is meant to fight head-on--that would just be a jerk move--but more for the "We can't fight him head on, how do we undermine him politically/sneak around him/outsmart him/etc.?" situations. Also to explain fun/weird things without DM fiat: "Oh. So that's how you make a flying ship with only 3 rounds' notice. Gotcha. Glad you're on our side."