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Calvinball
2009-11-19, 09:34 PM
So yeah, I'm playing DnD for the first time, and am playing what is currently a level 6 human factotum. Here's what my stats look like

Str 13
Dex 13
Con 12
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 12

Yeah I had mediocre rolls...

Feats
Armor Proficiency (medium)
Font of Inspiration (taken twice)
Knowledge Devotion

My DM is allowing us to rework feats each time we level up if we so choose, as we are all beginners who are experimenting with the game. So if I multiclass something that can't use medium armor or already has capability to use it I can use that feat slot for something else.

So I've been doing a lot of research on good multiclass/prestige class combos for the factotum and have found a lot of information. This thread in particular has given me a lot to think about: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871722/The_Factotum_Handbook?num=10&pg=1

The thing is, my character isn't perfect, and neither is the situation. I'd be happy to become a chameleon after 8 levels in factotum, but that doesn't seem feasible, really. To be a chameleon your character needs formal training at some school, but there's no way that my character will have the ability to go there until the story arch is over. And by then, I will be several levels over the ideal.

Beyond that, a lot of this information I'm seeing is like...level 20 ideal builds that i won't ever attain. I want something that my stats will accommodate and that will be fun and effective along the way. I am in a pretty large party, with six other people. So it'd be cool to do something that no one else can. Factotum is fun cause I can do a bit of everything, and if there is a class out there that compliments it well and does something the standard base classes don't...well I'd like to know about it :smallsmile:

So can all you DnD experts help a newbie out? What are some good approaches for my factotum? I'm open to almost anything, and any help is much appreciated!

infinitypanda
2009-11-19, 10:07 PM
I vote for just staying Factotum, really. It's a fun class. Just two things:

1. Inspiration points are per encounter, not per day. A lot of people miss that.
2. There is no second thing.

Doc Roc
2009-11-19, 10:13 PM
I would take factotum to 8, personally, particularly given that FoI is allowed.
From there, your options are pretty much unlimited, but because I am a mad man, I personally like

Factotum 8/Iaijatsu Master 5

infinitypanda
2009-11-19, 10:53 PM
Doesn't that build need lots of Charisma? Although the only difference between 18 and 12 is a +3.

deuxhero
2009-11-19, 10:57 PM
Wait so you can retrain/change feats at each level up?

Change your armor proficeny to something else (any ideas? it's a pretty weak feat for an semi-agile class) and grab a mithiral breastplate.

If you must PRC out, Cameleon (forget book, but free as a preview of it, someone has the link) after level 8 is a bit of fun (though straight class is also good).

Calvinball
2009-11-19, 10:58 PM
I vote for just staying Factotum, really. It's a fun class. Just two things:

1. Inspiration points are per encounter, not per day. A lot of people miss that.
2. There is no second thing.

Oh, I know Inspiration points are per encounter. And I've definitely been taking advantage of them. I'm just conerned of growing a bit underpowered compaired to my teammates. Like I said, it's a big party, there's a wizard, a druid, a cleric, a barbarian, a monk and a rogue. So it's not like there's any basic thing that they can't do without me, and if they can all do their respective stuff better than me I feel I won't be all that useful.

And as for Factotum 8/Iajutsu Master 5, I've considered that route. But like I said, I'm a newbie so I don't know too much about the game. What can these combos do?

Right now, my character is pretty open, and I don't have much preference whether my character becomes martially-minded or skill-minded or magic-minded or what have you. I just want to have fun playing :smallsmile:

Oh, and I feel I should expand on Knowledge Devotion a bit. I've invested a good bit into making it useful, I've got at least a 5 modifier in every knowledge () on the standard character sheet, and over ten in nature, arcana, and dungeoneering. So any classes that use attack rolls fairly commonly so I can take advantage of Knowledge Devotion are a big plus.

aje8
2009-11-19, 11:00 PM
Straight Factotum is great. If you must leave it, I like either Chameleon or perhaps a Warblade dip.

Armor Profeicency is a trap. Between Mithral Armor and the Twighlight enchancment, even Wizards can have good armor if they're willing to pay.

So.... yeah, swap about Armor poficency for probably another Font.

Calvinball
2009-11-19, 11:03 PM
Wait so you can retrain/change feats at each level up?

Change your armor proficeny to something else (any ideas? it's a pretty weak feat for an semi-agile class) and grab a mithiral breastplate.

If you must PRC out, Cameleon (forget book, but free as a preview of it, someone has the link) after level 8 is a bit of fun (though straight class is also good).

I thought mythril breastplates were still medium armor? I actually have one equipped right now so if they aren't...yeah I'll drop that feat as soon as I can.

And I already touched on the chameleon problem. Story-wise, I'm stuck fighting off an army of hob-goblins. The DM says by the time I could get away for formal training to become a chameleon, I'd be level 11 or 12. So it kinda messes that up :smallconfused:

but yeah, I basically have a free feat available cause I don't plan to stick with armor proficiency regardless, so if I need a certain feat to become a certain class I have the capability.

Calvinball
2009-11-19, 11:04 PM
oh and I have the chameleon character already pulled up so no need to link me to it.

aje8
2009-11-19, 11:07 PM
I'd seriously just go with Straight Factotum..... it's really a fine class throughout. Just make all your future feats, including the armor one, FoI and go to town.

Eldariel
2009-11-19, 11:20 PM
Formal training is merely a fluff requirement, definitely not the only way to go about it. Factotum is really a Chameleon-like base class so just advancing Factotum should really qualify you for Chameleon. Your DM is well within his rights to say that all PrCs require training, of course, but Chameleon isn't really written as to need such (Chameleons aren't an organization or anything; they'd actually make a fine base class) and really, the reasons for such a rule practically always constitute an application of Stormwind Fallacy anyways (basically, the Fallacy is assuming that the character's classes determine what the character is in the gameworld; just because you're a Cleric doesn't mean you're a part of an organized clergy, for example - all it means is that you have some divinely granted powers).

And yeah, without Chameleon, I'd just go Factotum 20. It's a fine class. It's not worse than Factotum 11/Chameleon 9, either.

KitTheOdd
2009-11-19, 11:25 PM
With a large group like that you may want to consider dipping into Bard. With the feat Song of the Heart from ECS and the Badge of Valor from MIC you can give everybody +3 to attack and +3 damage. Of course, you would also want the feat Extra Music if you only take one level.

Or you could get a little cheesy and go for a Dragonfire Inspiration Bard.

See
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870498/The_Bards_Handbook

and

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869994/Bard_Inspire_Courage_Optimization

Or look at some of the other classes that do well at helping the whole group, like Marshal.

The trick here is to make sure your party appreciates the help.

But seriously sticking with Factotum is perfectly viable. You might also want to talk to the DM about removing the fluff requirement on Chameleon. It does fit well as a natural extension of the Factotum's inspiration mechanic.

ninja'd on the reflavoring thing

SurlySeraph
2009-11-19, 11:41 PM
It's perfectly reasonable to stay with pure Factotum, and in the absence of any other information it's what I recommend. If you really want to multiclass, Warblade (Tome of Battle) is a good choice. You might retrain your armor proficiency to Martial Study and use it to get the prerequisite for any maneuver you might want.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 01:20 AM
I took a closer look at warblade and while it's a cool class it definitely wouldn't work with my build. Like I said, I've got my skills basically built around the Knowledge Devotion feat, which provides insight bonuses to attack and damage rolls. A lot of the class abilities of warblade are about adding int to attack and damage rolls in certain situations, and they wouldn't stack. So warblade isn't a decent option I don't think.

I spoke to the DM and he didn't seem too receptive to the idea of ignoring the chameleon fluff. He did recommend Warlock as a multiclass so I will check that out. Otherwise I might just stay straight Factotum.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-20, 01:22 AM
I took a closer look at warblade and while it's a cool class it definitely wouldn't work with my build. Like I said, I've got my skills basically built around the Knowledge Devotion feat, which provides insight bonuses to attack and damage rolls. A lot of the class abilities of warblade are about adding int to attack and damage rolls in certain situations, and they wouldn't stack. So warblade isn't a decent option I don't think.
Why wouldn't they? Different bonuses from different sources.



I spoke to the DM and he didn't seem too receptive to the idea of ignoring the chameleon fluff. He did recommend Warlock as a multiclass so I will check that out. Otherwise I might just stay straight Factotum.
You will be disappointed.

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 01:39 AM
Warlock has the issue that all the principal class features are only really good if you single-class it. Other than free access to few Least Invocations and the incredible, incredible level 4 ability to take 10 on UMD, it really offers little as a dip.

Nay, if Chameleon doesn't work (No refluffing? What is this, Sparta?), I just suggest a straight Factotum and making the best out of the spellcasting, skills and copycat abilities you gain.


Oh yeah, and your rolls are fine. Just btw.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 01:40 AM
yeah i'm not very impressed with warlock. not for multiclassing anyways.

But don't bonuses of the same type not stack? All the warblade bonuses are insight bonuses, and Knowledge Devotion bonuses are insight bonuses. If they DO stack somehow, I will probably go with warblade.

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 01:43 AM
yeah i'm not very impressed with warlock. not for multiclassing anyways.

But don't bonuses of the same type not stack? All the warblade bonuses are insight bonuses, and Knowledge Devotion bonuses are insight bonuses. If they DO stack somehow, I will probably go with warblade.

Warblade isn't getting much Insight-bonuses to hit and damage. Those are the only bonuses Knowledge Devotion grants. No problems there. You'll only miss out on Battle Cunning and Battle Mastery (something you'd probably never reach anyways, since you're multiclassed). Besides, the real reason to go Warblade are maneuvers (and the fact that maneuver progression isn't stymied by taking levels in non-maneuver classes). Maneuvers + Cunning Surge = :smallbiggrin:

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 01:50 AM
Do crit confirmations not count as attack rolls then?

But yeah, I'll need to study the warblade a bit more and how stances work and all that but I am liking it more and more.

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 01:52 AM
Maybe a dip into Archivist, so you can share your Dark Knowledge with the party.

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 01:55 AM
Do crit confirmations not count as attack rolls then?

That's gray area. I would allow them to stack simply because knowledge of how best to attack a creature gaining advantages against its fighting style, and of how best to realize a potential hit in fatal place aren't the same thing.

Or well, it's an attack roll, that much is clear. But while RAW states they don't stack, you could make a rather strong RAI case for them stacking there since they're applied to different things, sorta.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 02:09 AM
Alright, thanks for the help. My DM seems to be a bit of a stickler to the rules but he does say he will accept whatever so long as a strong case is made for it. So he might go for it.

This warblade stuff is confusing though. It's hard to wrap my head all around it. He's played a swordsage before so he could help me understand manouvers and stances and all that.

and thurbane, what does an archivist do? I'm not familiar with the class.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-20, 02:11 AM
The Archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3)

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 03:07 AM
ok, warblade looks like it'd be a really, really fun addition to my factotum abilities. Especially considering that the maneuvers and stances I can pick from the outset are aided by the 8 levels I will already have from factotum. I will be able to start with third level stances and maneuvers, though if I read it correctly I will still start with only one stance and three maneuvers.

Still seems like it will really provide an extra punch to my factotum. I especially like how there is also a bit of party-boosting abilities I can think about with the White Raven school. It should work out pretty well.

The archivist also seems like it would be pretty cool as it would bolster my party-boosting abilities. I think I will stick with warblade, though.

Thanks for all the help everyone! :smallbiggrin:

Doc Roc
2009-11-20, 03:27 AM
Warlock is a trashfish. I love it, but it's a trashfish. You don't cook it for dinner unless you have nothing else.

Iaijatsu master capitalizes on your bizarrely high initiative, since initiative is an ability check of the flavor that you'll be adding your intelligence modifier to. So what Iai master does, is take the already amazing iaijatsu skill, and at level five, give you the impeccably cool ability to add your cha mod to each damage die you gain from iaijatsu.

That said, you're not in a good position to move into Iaijatsu master. Chameleon is my other normal go to in this situation, but that's a problem here. I'll think on it. Maybe I'll come up with something. Warblade is simply superb. I would go:

Factotum 8/Warblade 2/_______________

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 03:32 AM
Wait, I have bizarrely high initiative? Last I checked my initiative bonus was...+1. Or did I not calculate it right or something...

Alex112524
2009-11-20, 03:46 AM
An initiative check is a dexterity check :smallbiggrin:

Doc Roc
2009-11-20, 04:18 AM
so you have a +5 at least. :)

Ormagoden
2009-11-20, 09:37 AM
Duskblade has really good synergy with both factotum and knowledge devotion.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 11:56 AM
so you have a +5 at least. :)

oh wow, brain over brawn qualifies for initiative checks? I had no idea, I'll have to take that into account. Thanks.

And I'll check out Duskblade, thanks for the recommendation.

Draz74
2009-11-20, 12:11 PM
Duskblade is a caster, so it's only good if you take most of your levels in it.

I'd stick with Factotum/Warblade. And a little bit of Warblade goes a long way, if you pick your maneuvers carefully.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 12:20 PM
I definitely like the duskblade but yeah, the wait between new spell levels is pretty rough. I wouldn't be casting second level spells til level 5, and I was thinking I'd do this after taking two or so levels in Warblade or something. Level 15 for second level spells isn't worth it I don't think.

edit: how far do you all think I should go with warblade?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-20, 12:26 PM
I'd advise a wee little dip after Factotum 8. Pick up White Raven Tactics, Iron Heart Surge, and whatever prereq you might need. Then keep going with Factotum skillz.

Doc Roc
2009-11-20, 12:36 PM
Duskblade has really good synergy with both factotum and knowledge devotion.

Duskblade, while cool, is extremely weak. Given your party composition, taking it is an extraordinarily bad plan. If you really want casting, you'd need to use some dirty trick like tainted scholar + fast progression arcane, since most fast progression arcane PrCs are Cha based. Even Nar Demonbinder.

So you could do...

Factotum 8/Bard 1/Tainted Scholar 1/Sublime Chord 2/Initiate of the Seven Veils 7/Tainted Scholar 1
But that's slow, caaaraaaaaazy, and might require some twisting to get certain things to be satisfied as requirements. That said, it'd be a monstrously powerful option.

zagan
2009-11-20, 12:45 PM
ok, warblade looks like it'd be a really, really fun addition to my factotum abilities. Especially considering that the maneuvers and stances I can pick from the outset are aided by the 8 levels I will already have from factotum. I will be able to start with third level stances and maneuvers, though if I read it correctly I will still start with only one stance and three maneuvers.

Still seems like it will really provide an extra punch to my factotum. I especially like how there is also a bit of party-boosting abilities I can think about with the White Raven school. It should work out pretty well.

The archivist also seems like it would be pretty cool as it would bolster my party-boosting abilities. I think I will stick with warblade, though.

Thanks for all the help everyone! :smallbiggrin:

Nope sorry, you will be able to select third level maneuvre (Boost, Counter or Strike) no problem on that but the stance must be first level, reread the stances know paragraphe in the warblade description and you'll see that it's explicitly stat to be a first level stance.
A reasonable DM would probably allow you to select any stance you can qualify for, but you'll need to ask.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 12:52 PM
oops, you're right, it's only maneuvers that the factotum levels apply for it seems.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 12:55 PM
Duskblade, while cool, is extremely weak. Given your party composition, taking it is an extraordinarily bad plan. If you really want casting, you'd need to use some dirty trick like tainted scholar + fast progression arcane, since most fast progression arcane PrCs are Cha based. Even Nar Demonbinder.

So you could do...

Factotum 8/Bard 1/Tainted Scholar 1/Sublime Chord 2/Initiate of the Seven Veils 7/Tainted Scholar 1
But that's slow, caaaraaaaaazy, and might require some twisting to get certain things to be satisfied as requirements. That said, it'd be a monstrously powerful option.

Yeah, I'm not sure if we'll even be playing til level 20 so I don't want to build a class around the concept of it being good eventually but not now. Thanks for the recommendation, though.

Doc Roc
2009-11-20, 02:05 PM
Definitely. That said, I could make the bard level really be worth it, if you're remotely interested in it. The dead level is actually the tainted scholar in a lot of senses, since it won't affect your factotum casting due to them being SLAs.

That said, the build comes online fully at 11th, and will have you tracking fully with the other spellcasters in the party with sixth level spells by 13th casting off the derived stats of taint, which means that with a couple of item purchases, you'll have wildly higher DCs and spells per day. In theory, it can also offer some pretty excellent party-wide support with just that one level of bard, through a contrivance revolving around Dragonfire Inspiration.

I don't know that I'd pursue it, frankly, because it follows a very sharp power curve. Given that you are all beginners, my recommend is:

Factotum 8/Warblade xxxx

Draz74
2009-11-20, 02:34 PM
edit: how far do you all think I should go with warblade?

Tough call. Definitely at least 4, so you can get a second stance and a fourth Readied Maneuver. (But your second thru fourth Warblade levels are a lower priority than your eighth Factotum level.)

The next big level for Warblades is 10, but you won't be able to fit that in unless you stop Factotum at 10, which doesn't get you the cool Cunning Breach ability.


oops, you're right, it's only maneuvers that the factotum levels apply for it seems.

No, it works for stances too; but not for your first stance. This is a rules-lawyer style nitpick of the way the ToB classes are written, which may not be the way the writers intended. Ask your DM if he'll actually enforce it and insist that your first stance is Level 1.

If he does, it's not a big deal, since there are several Level 1 Stances that are really pretty good. "Leading the Charge," in particular, is a good backup option for almost any melee character, especially in a big party.

* * *

By the way, very important advice for any melee-friendly Factotum: look up the spell Heroics in the Spell Compendium. Yeah. Now use it every day.

Doc Roc
2009-11-20, 02:55 PM
Factotum's best break point is indubitably 8.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 03:07 PM
Definitely. That said, I could make the bard level really be worth it, if you're remotely interested in it. The dead level is actually the tainted scholar in a lot of senses, since it won't affect your factotum casting due to them being SLAs.

That said, the build comes online fully at 11th, and will have you tracking fully with the other spellcasters in the party with sixth level spells by 13th casting off the derived stats of taint, which means that with a couple of item purchases, you'll have wildly higher DCs and spells per day. In theory, it can also offer some pretty excellent party-wide support with just that one level of bard, through a contrivance revolving around Dragonfire Inspiration.

I don't know that I'd pursue it, frankly, because it follows a very sharp power curve. Given that you are all beginners, my recommend is:

Factotum 8/Warblade xxxx

yeah, that all sounds awfully complex. I'll just stick to factotum/warblade. I don't want to overwhelm myself :smallsmile:


Tough call. Definitely at least 4, so you can get a second stance and a fourth Readied Maneuver. (But your second thru fourth Warblade levels are a lower priority than your eighth Factotum level.)

The next big level for Warblades is 10, but you won't be able to fit that in unless you stop Factotum at 10, which doesn't get you the cool Cunning Breach ability.

yeah I was thinking 4 levels as well. After that I can proceed with my factotum and gain a bit more spellcasting abilities.


No, it works for stances too; but not for your first stance. This is a rules-lawyer style nitpick of the way the ToB classes are written, which may not be the way the writers intended. Ask your DM if he'll actually enforce it and insist that your first stance is Level 1.

If he does, it's not a big deal, since there are several Level 1 Stances that are really pretty good. "Leading the Charge," in particular, is a good backup option for almost any melee character, especially in a big party.

Yeah, I'll ask him about it, hopefully I can get the benefit of the doubt. If not, what do you think of Leading the Attack instead? Since I apparently have much higher initiative than I once thought I will probably be going first most the time, and everyone could just gang up on who I target as they have +4 attack rolls on it.

Eldariel
2009-11-20, 03:07 PM
Factotum's best break point is indubitably 8.

Though there's something to be said about the level 11 ability, particularly if dealing with creatures with epic-level SRs (for example, pseudonaturals with their 5xHD SR), given a caster shell. Of course, the "ignore DR"-part is far less impressive for a more meleeish build.

Doc Roc
2009-11-20, 04:10 PM
Though there's something to be said about the level 11 ability, particularly if dealing with creatures with epic-level SRs (for example, pseudonaturals with their 5xHD SR), given a caster shell. Of course, the "ignore DR"-part is far less impressive for a more meleeish build.

Absolutely true, but I think we will not be looking at a caster shell.

I agree that not overwhelming yourself is good. When you are ready for the fifth ring, I will be waiting.

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 04:31 PM
so I looked up heroics and...it's pretty spectacular. The feats I have written down as 'noteworthy' are exotic weapon proficiency (I have a bastard sword and a shield and I'd like to use both at the same time), great cleave (for my barbarian friend) and improved critical (also for my barbarian friend, though he might not have the +8 BaB).

Any other feats I should consider? maybe power attack for myself?

And since I will be replacing the armor proficiency feat at my next level, do you think Exotic weapon proficiency would be a good replacement? My bastard sword is a Shining +1 bastard sword with additional 1d6 frost damage, so it's rather good. I'd like to get the most use out of it, and since I'm going to be martially minded I feel having proficiency so I can have the bonus AC from my shield would be worthwhile.

If not I will just Font of Inspiration it up, which is never a bad choice, haha.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-20, 05:19 PM
EWP:Bastard Sword is a waste. It's 1 damage better than a Longsword, on average. 1 damage is worse than WepSpec, which is hated.

Draz74
2009-11-20, 07:46 PM
I agree that EWP is probably a sad waste; the bastard sword is sadly quite useless.


Any other feats I should consider? maybe power attack for myself?

Via Heroics? Oh, no reason to lock yourself into a short list of possibilities! Switch it up, see how many fun melee feats you can give yourself day after day without repeating any!

But worthy of special note should definitely be Martial Study and Martial Stance. To give your chosen Maneuvers and Stances some variety.

As far as your question about Leading the Attack goes ... it's a maneuver (strike), not a stance, so I don't see why you're considering taking it as your Level 1 stance. :smalltongue: And if you were considering taking it as one of your maneuvers ... meh. It's pretty nice at low levels, but it doesn't scale, and at this point you have cooler things you can take (at higher levels than Level 1).

Are you really committed to Sword & Board? Because there's some very cool stuff you can do with that, but it requires a heavy feat investment. (Which I'm fine with, personally; I always recommend against Font of Inspiration in favor of something more flavorful anyway.)

Calvinball
2009-11-20, 09:46 PM
Oh, that's a strike? My bad then...

I forgot that Martial Study and Martial Stance count as fighter bonus feats...that improves the already very good spell by a substantial margin.

I'm not totally committed to the bastard sword and shield. I just happen to have a not too shabby bastard sword at the moment. Like I said, I don't know much about DnD so I don't know what weapons are good. Maybe until I reach eighth level I will just use Heroics so I can wield the sword and shield, and look for a better exotic weapon whilst doing so. I'd like to keep the shield because I could use the AC bonus but it's not essential or anything.

Draz74
2009-11-21, 01:27 AM
Heroics has a good duration, but it won't last all day, and you can only cast it once per day. So you don't want to have to rely on it to be proficient with your weapon.

Sadly, the best thing to do with a bastard sword is to eschew a shield and just wield the bastard sword as a two-handed weapon. Makes Power Attack worthwhile, too (although not super worthwhile for a medium-BAB class). (Of course, then the standard cheesy strategy is just to get your hands on an Animated shield, so you can still use a shield together with your two-handed weapon.)

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-21, 02:18 AM
Heroics has a good duration, but it won't last all day, and you can only cast it once per day. So you don't want to have to rely on it to be proficient with your weapon.

Sadly, the best thing to do with a bastard sword is to eschew a shield and just wield the bastard sword as a two-handed weapon. Makes Power Attack worthwhile, too (although not super worthwhile for a medium-BAB class). (Of course, then the standard cheesy strategy is just to get your hands on an Animated shield, so you can still use a shield together with your two-handed weapon.)Just see if you can add the sunblade enhancements to it. Wield it 1-handed, without a feat.

Though if you want to keep the bonuses on it but turn it into something else, there's always morphing.

Also, for your factotum, get up to level 11, then either go bard 1/sublime chord 8 (if you can get your spell-likes to count as spells for PrCs; or maybe sublime chord 1/arcane casting PrC 7), or ur-priest 9. Mebbe even bard 1/sublime chord 1/ur-priest 2/mystic theurge 5...or you can skip the extra 3 levels of factotum until after epic, and focus on non-SR spells until then.

Or maybe something like factotum 11/war mind 9 (check the SRD).

Factotum 11/legacy champion 9? You can basically get all of your factotum stuff through LC AND t LC's abilities. I think there are a couple more PrCs that do this same thing...

Factotum 8/warblade 2/totemist X would be...Oh dear.

Calvinball
2009-11-21, 02:46 AM
I suppose I could just accept the shield being a lost cause. My AC is an 18 without it, which isn't horrible.

So I replace armor proficiency with FoI. I gain my first warblade level at cumulative level 9, at that point I will also use my new feat for a second maneuver or stance...probably stance. Then I can use Heroics to give me another dynamic maneuver/stance as I continue to progress my character.

Calvinball
2009-11-21, 02:55 AM
Just see if you can add the sunblade enhancements to it. Wield it 1-handed, without a feat.

Though if you want to keep the bonuses on it but turn it into something else, there's always morphing.

Also, for your factotum, get up to level 11, then either go bard 1/sublime chord 8 (if you can get your spell-likes to count as spells for PrCs; or maybe sublime chord 1/arcane casting PrC 7), or ur-priest 9. Mebbe even bard 1/sublime chord 1/ur-priest 2/mystic theurge 5...or you can skip the extra 3 levels of factotum until after epic, and focus on non-SR spells until then.

Or maybe something like factotum 11/war mind 9 (check the SRD).

Factotum 11/legacy champion 9? You can basically get all of your factotum stuff through LC AND t LC's abilities. I think there are a couple more PrCs that do this same thing...

Factotum 8/warblade 2/totemist X would be...Oh dear.

oop, didn't see this. Sunblade or morphing, eh? Never head of sunblade but if it isn't too pricy that's an excellent option. I'll keep that in mind for when we get to the large city. Morphing could work too, probably. Thanks for the tip.

I considered Ur-Priest, but it's not very feasible. I'd have to switch alignment, mess up my character traits (my character believes and prays to whatever god he feels like at the time, so to have him suddenly despise divine beings is a bit of a stretch), and practically become mortal enemies with the cleric in my party. Not to mention I'd be the only evil person in the party...

I already asked my DM if he would treat SLAs as real spells for PrC pre-reqs and he shot it down. I was looking at Jade Phoenix Mage at the time, btw. Sweet looking PrC class, it's a shame I can't take it.

I can look at Totemist and Legacy Champion, I suppose. I need something to do for when I'm done leveling warblade. I might just take more factotum levels but I like to keep my options open.

Edit: taking a quick glance at Legacy Champion...the circumstances towards becoming one are just wayyyyy out of my reach. There's no way I could say to my DM "hey I want to be a Legacy Champion" and he'd just be like "sure, let me find a legacy weapon for you."

Wings of Peace
2009-11-21, 03:01 AM
If you do heavy multi-classing and your DM is strict you'll want the Able-Learner feat if you're human. If you have all skills as class skills that does not eliminate the 2:1 Skill Point cost when buying your "class" skills in the class that does not normally grant them. Able learner fixes this so that ALL skills no matter what class you take will only cost 1 Skill Point.

Raging Gene Ray
2009-11-21, 03:01 AM
oop, didn't see this. Sunblade or morphing, eh? Never head of sunblade but if it isn't too pricy that's an excellent option. I'll keep that in mind for when we get to the large city. Morphing could work too, probably. Thanks for the tip.

Here's a few other enchantments that I've always liked:

Warning: +1 equivalent, gives a +5 to initiative checks.
Transforming: +2 equivalent, automatically attunes to enemies with Damage Reduction (whether it's based on alignment, materials, or damage type) so that it overcomes it.

Example: Hit a devil with DR 15/silver and good. The first attack is resolved normally (the devil ignores the first 15 pts. of damage from each attack), but the sword is treated as silver and good aligned after that...or until it hits, say, a demon with DR 15/cold iron and good, then it attunes itself to the demon.

Calvinball
2009-11-21, 03:12 AM
Ok, looking up sunblade...it's like 60,000 GP, which is just a teensy bit too pricy for my blood, unfortunately. Maybe once I'm like level 15 or 16 my party will be raking in that kind of dough. I have no idea what getting a qualified person to morph my bastard sword into a longsword would cost, though. Anyone know?

Those other weapon enhancements sound cool though. I already have pretty high initiative, but that DR accomodater is pretty neat.

Calvinball
2009-11-21, 03:42 AM
Oh, I forgot about Able Learner. It might be wortwhile, but I know that at least with the first level or two it wouldn't be all that essential, as I will be boosting the skills relevant to the warblade. It's something to think about though, cause I've got a lot of skills that need improving that the warblade would be penalized on.

But yeah, Concentration definitely will need a good number of ranks, as will Spot. Jump could stand a bit of a boost, my knowledge (local) is pretty minimal right now and my diplomacy and intimidate are...nonexistent. So there would definitely be skills to put my ranks into, they might not be the best skills though.