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View Full Version : [3.5] I gave a PC a +3 to Int as a reward for plot. Did I just overpower him?



Pika...
2009-11-20, 01:28 AM
Long story short:
-Rare Human Ranger PC discovers an ancient temple of Wee Jas made by his ancestors who first settled his villag's valley area.
-Thee players managed to figure out the "secrets" and such there.
-As a plot reward for figuring out that by "come to me" she meant to walk into the blazing magically enhanced fire pit the PCs lit (thereby activating the temple) I has him make fort saves to resist the pain as everything flamable on him burnt to ashes.On the fly I decided they would be in steps of 5s, and he would need to keep on passing them to get a better reward/aid/enhancement. He passed the 15 Fort Save, but failed the 20th. Wee Jes than asked him "Do you want the power of a bull, the speed of a cheetah, or the wisdom of an owl?".
-So at that point Wee Jas whispered to him to exit the fire pit.
--All he had left on hiw was a pair of non-magical rings, two silvered daggers, some arrow heads, and 30lbs of fdivinely cooked goat meat (they later discovered it is great for relieving one's fatigue!).
-I then told the player to add +3 to his PC's intelligence score, and +3 to his puppet's intelligence score.




Note that this is a low-wealth and low-magic game, so I guess I was trying to give a small boost to the player?

Did I break him and his puppet instead with such a boost to int?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-20, 01:29 AM
You gave him some extra skill points. That's not too much.

Haven
2009-11-20, 01:31 AM
Yeah, that's hardly a big deal--possibly even a net loss depending on what exactly was lost in all the fire. (Okay, probably not, but still)

Grynning
2009-11-20, 01:31 AM
On a Ranger? Hell no. All you did is bump up a few skill checks and give him an extra point or two per level. Nice, yes, but hardly game-breaking.

If it was a Wizard PC, I might say yes.

tyckspoon
2009-11-20, 01:35 AM
Stat boosts (within reasonable bounds) very rarely break the game. Sometimes they change the parameters a little bit, but since they don't alter the base situation of the game the way full on world-smashers do you can usually figure out how to balance bigger numbers with other bigger numbers. In this particular case, you should be in no trouble at all, as a Ranger doesn't do anything unusual or especially powerful with Int (his Psion puppet, on the other hand, will greatly appreciate the boost, but I'm guessing his stats are still within the range of normal generation and he's unlikely to get the items necessary to push the score beyond sane numbers.)

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-20, 03:20 AM
Was wondering just the same thing myself a couple of weeks back, when one PC in my Friday game was rewarded with the Codex Anathema (one-time use item, increases Intelligence by 2, decreases Wisdom by 2, gives a handful of vaguely-worded ranks in some Knowledge skills, and the only means by which a PC can produce a Codex Anathema of his/her own). However, since neither your PC nor mine are Intelligence-based characters, I doubt it's seriously game-breaking.

EDIT: I don't know anything about any puppets, though. :smalleek:

valadil
2009-11-20, 09:48 AM
No. Int was probably his dump stat anyway. Had this been a wizard you'd regret the decision.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-20, 10:09 AM
If you're boosting a primary stat, make sure to give the bonus a type, such as inherent, for stacking reasons. This prevents any really bad abuse.

If it's a secondary stat like int for anyone who isn't an int-based caster, don't even worry about that. It's a couple skill points, and a minor boost to int-based skills. It's not gonna break a thing.

Fitz10019
2009-11-20, 01:22 PM
Wee Jes than asked him "Do you want the power of a bull, the speed of a cheetah, or the wisdom of an owl?"...
-I then told the player to add +3 to his PC's intelligence score, and +3 to his puppet's intelligence score.

I'm curious why Wee Jes offered Wisdom but gave Intelligence. If the player chose 'the wisdom of the owl', why not give him Wisdom+3? As a ranger, it would almost certainly give him a whole 'nother spell level.

Pika...
2009-11-20, 01:53 PM
I'm curious why Wee Jes offered Wisdom but gave Intelligence. If the player chose 'the wisdom of the owl', why not give him Wisdom+3? As a ranger, it would almost certainly give him a whole 'nother spell level.

My apology. I think I had worded it as "the knowledge of an Owl". Now I remembr that I was trying not to say the words Str, Dex, and INT. ''Sorry, it was late when I typed that.


And thanks for the information folks on a +3 Int not breaking a lv.3 Ranger.

However, did it break his Lv.1 Psion puppet?! I rule that all followers basically get 1/4 the experience of the player, so while cohorts level with the PC followersl level every 4th level he does.

deuxhero
2009-11-20, 01:58 PM
1/4 xp points or 1/4 level?

Pika...
2009-11-20, 02:00 PM
1/4 xp points or 1/4 level?

Well, it used to depend on how i ran things, sorry.

Now that I tossed the XP system out the window it is every 4th level.

Fitz10019
2009-11-20, 02:49 PM
My apology. I think I had worded it as "the knowledge of an Owl". Now I remembr that I was trying not to say the words Str, Dex, and INT. ''

Still, in the context of DnD3.5, owl references allude to wisdom, as the spell Owl's Insight. A fox would allude to intelligence, as the spell Fox's Cunning. For the future, you might want to use the animals from the animal-named spells exactly as the spells do, or purposely use different animals to avoid confusion. Wee Jes could have offered "the bounty of the elephant" or something. Hah, unless of course confusion is the goal. :smallamused:

Pika...
2009-11-20, 03:04 PM
Still, in the context of DnD3.5, owl references allude to wisdom, as the spell Owl's Insight. A fox would allude to intelligence, as the spell Fox's Cunning. For the future, you might want to use the animals from the animal-named spells exactly as the spells do, or purposely use different animals to avoid confusion. Wee Jes could have offered "the bounty of the elephant" or something. Hah, unless of course confusion is the goal. :smallamused:

Tanks fro the advice. Much appreciated!

And yeah, I was kinda trying to confuse him. Another player later said he picked it up immediately, but thankfully the player who's PC was going through the "Trial by Fire" said he did not.

Another_Poet
2009-11-20, 03:14 PM
I agree with those above. +3 Int to a ranger is nice but not gamebreaking by a long shot.

Akal Saris
2009-11-20, 05:32 PM
Actually, one of my PCs is a fighter and got +6 int at 1st level as a special ability (it's a Birthright 3.5 game) - and believe me, it didn't overpower the character at all - basically, it just gave him enough skill points to get into Purple Dragon Knight with all his cross-class skills, and enough Int for him to take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, which he hasn't remembered to use yet in combat.

Then again, were I playing the character, I would have taken that 18 int and started down the path of a ftr/wiz gish, but thankfully he's not really a min/maxer.

deuxhero
2009-11-21, 10:14 AM
A level 5 psion at level 20 is not going to break the game unless you use some cheese, even with +3 int.

UglyPanda
2009-11-21, 11:06 AM
It's not gamebreaking, very arbitrary, but not gamebreaking. He'll appreciate it, but he can't do much with it and would have been very happy with something else.

But why would a ranger be interested in a god of death and knowledge?

daggaz
2009-11-21, 11:20 AM
Actually, you probably just suceeded in disappointing him if anything.

You offer the "knowledge of an owl" and of course what he is thinking is wisdom, as this is what owls are known for (even in-game), and as wisdom is his primary casting stat, he jumped on it.

Now he is probably muttering to himself. "Dammit.. why the hell is it intelligence?? Owls are wise, not intelligent... I woulda picked strength or speed if I had known all I was going to get was a few skill points out of it.."

You might want to ask him about it. Sometimes its fun to be mysterious or indirect, other times it pays to be a little more straight forward.

Zovc
2009-11-21, 12:06 PM
You could've experimented with giving the player a spell-like ability once a day, just saying.

Something modest like detect magic or magic missile, or perhaps even dispel magic.

*I don't think a ranger being able to automatically (assuming target doesn't have a magical shield) hit once a day for 5d4+5 at level 10 is that broken, but it is cool.

I think it makes sense for Wee Jas to give an intelligence bonus, and it's possible he wouldn't offer anything else in terms of an ability boost. If the player's disappointed, look at a few spells that are cool (not powerful), and let him use one of them once a day. If you're afraid you'll break the game, ask here, and I'm sure people can make good suggestions.

As someone already mentioned, the extra skill points will be nice for the player (especially if they're retroactive), but will hardly ever turn out to have been a better choice than +1 to hit and +1 to damage (and being able to carry more, incidentally) or +1 to hit and +1 to AC (and +1 to reflex saves).

Another_Poet
2009-11-21, 12:30 PM
You offer the "knowledge of an owl" and of course what he is thinking is wisdom, as this is what owls are known for (even in-game), and as wisdom is his primary casting stat, he jumped on it.

Now he is probably muttering to himself. "Dammit.. why the hell is it intelligence?? Owls are wise, not intelligent... I woulda picked strength or speed if I had known all I was going to get was a few skill points out of it.."

You might want to ask him about it. Sometimes its fun to be mysterious or indirect, other times it pays to be a little more straight forward.

I agree. And agree.

Pika...
2009-11-21, 12:40 PM
It's not gamebreaking, very arbitrary, but not gamebreaking. He'll appreciate it, but he can't do much with it and would have been very happy with something else.

But why would a ranger be interested in a god of death and knowledge?

She is the one who "civilized" his barbarian ancestors o originally settled the hidden valley his hidden Human village is in.

Plus she is one of only four Human deities still kicking, and he others Nerul and Palor (who are still fighting at deadlock) and Vecna (who is actually still trapped in Ravenloft).




Actually, you probably just suceeded in disappointing him if anything.

You offer the "knowledge of an owl" and of course what he is thinking is wisdom, as this is what owls are known for (even in-game), and as wisdom is his primary casting stat, he jumped on it.

Now he is probably muttering to himself. "Dammit.. why the hell is it intelligence?? Owls are wise, not intelligent... I woulda picked strength or speed if I had known all I was going to get was a few skill points out of it.."

You might want to ask him about it. Sometimes its fun to be mysterious or indirect, other times it pays to be a little more straight forward.

Well, I actually use the non-magical variants of the ranger for my low-magic setting.

Pika...
2009-11-21, 12:49 PM
Oh, and I level plays by completed personal goals and accomplishments. He recently asked if he could give his puppet some. I said yes.

Now the puppet will be leveling on his own merit...

Does this throw things off balance now that hegot the boost, and can level normally?