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Talbot
2009-11-20, 03:06 AM
So, my character in a game right now is a Soulknife Dwarf (level 6), eventually going to go into Soulbow. He has a lot of ranks in Jump and Tumble because the character concept I came up with is kind of a forest/survivalist outcast Dwarf who's very mobile in combat. The problem I'm having, is that while everything else is working out ok (decent feats, good HP, etc.), my AC is by far the lowest in the party. Is there any good way to get more AC without losing move speed/taking a penalty to skill checks? Or at least, taking a small penalty to skill checks? I'm already wearing a +3 Mithril shirt, but that's not cutting it by itself.

sonofzeal
2009-11-20, 03:10 AM
So, my character in a game right now is a Soulknife Dwarf (level 6), eventually going to go into Soulbow. He has a lot of ranks in Jump and Tumble because the character concept I came up with is kind of a forest/survivalist outcast Dwarf who's very mobile in combat. The problem I'm having, is that while everything else is working out ok (decent feats, good HP, etc.), my AC is by far the lowest in the party. Is there any good way to get more AC without losing move speed/taking a penalty to skill checks? Or at least, taking a small penalty to skill checks? I'm already wearing a +3 Mithril shirt, but that's not cutting it by itself.
- Mithral Breastplate gets you an extra +1 for 3000 gp

- I assume you have both a Ring of Protection and a Amulet of Natural Armor?

- Mithral Buckler gives you no ACP and no non-proficiency penalties, and can be enchanted

- A ML3 Dorje of Compression costs 2250 for 50 charges, each of which shrinks you a size category (+2 AC, +2 attack) for half an hour. Note that projectiles return to normal size once they leave your hand, so your damage doesn't suffer except in melee.

Zaq
2009-11-20, 03:10 AM
How much are you willing to invest? Gold? Feats? Class dips? Bugging your full-caster friends for buffs? What's open to you?

Talbot
2009-11-20, 03:11 AM
I have neither a ring of protection nor an amulet of natural armor. How much do they cost/what do they do/do they stack?

Talbot
2009-11-20, 03:13 AM
How much are you willing to invest? Gold? Feats? Class dips? Bugging your full-caster friends for buffs? What's open to you?


Well, at the moment I'm light on gold (that, I assume, will change), but my DM is a **** about multiclassing, so dips are out. I'd be prepared to maybe burn a feat, but I'd rather get it through money/some other means, if it exists.

Thurbane
2009-11-20, 03:25 AM
Mithril buckler +X is always handy: 0 skill check penalty, 0% ASF.

Talbot
2009-11-20, 03:34 AM
I'm new to the forums, what's ASF?

And don't I need a proficiency for the buckler?

Also, my Mindblade has been re-shaped into a two-handed weapon (via my level 6 feat), does that mean I can't use the buckler?

Are there any good enhancements I could get on my existing armor or expendable items that permanently increase my AC somehow?

Simba
2009-11-20, 03:46 AM
Arcane Spell Failure

Talbot
2009-11-20, 03:54 AM
Oh, ok... but as a Soulknife, I don't cast arcane spells anyways :p

The only other classes I'm likely to take are Ilumine Soul and Soubow, so my main worry is increasing my AC without costing myself mobility/damage/etc.

herrhauptmann
2009-11-20, 03:55 AM
ASF is arcane spell failure, you're a psionic character, aren't you? Arcane spell failure has no effect on you anyway.
Amulet of natural armor stacks with ring of protection. One is nat armor (tough skin) which stacks with regular armor worn, the other provides I think deflection bonuses. Rules Compendium has a nice entry about stacking of AC bonuses.
Note, bracers of armor do not stack with armor that is worn.
I believe that the mithral buckler has no armor check penalty (ACP), so it can be worn despite not having proficiency with bucklers.

Depending on the cash you have available, it might be more efficient to just stack miss chances, rather than trying to boost your AC. A 20% miss chance is a 20% miss chance, and it applies to criticals from enemies.
It IS possible to boost your AC high enough that mooks and enemies close to your level can't touch you without a natural 20. But the huge bruiser monsters can still nail you good, heck, some of them will have attack bonuses equal to your AC. And when THEY crit, it gets even worse. And then there's spells and spell like effects. AC doesn't do squat against those.

A miss chance will help you against ALL enemies: Bruisers, spells, mooks etc. Plus depending on its source, it can also save you from sneak attack too.

Tiktakkat
2009-11-20, 03:59 AM
I'm new to the forums, what's ASF?

Arcane Spell Failure.


And don't I need a proficiency for the buckler?

Here's the thing:
If you do not have proficiency in a particular armor or shield, the armor check penalty is doubled, and it applies to your attack rolls.
The armor check penalty of mithril buckler is 0.
Double 0 is 0.
The penalty for being non-proficient is moot.


Also, my Mindblade has been re-shaped into a two-handed weapon (via my level 6 feat), does that mean I can't use the buckler?

No, it just means you will suffer a penalty to hit and lose the AC bonus of the buckler when using a two-handed mindblade.


Are there any good enhancements I could get on my existing armor or expendable items that permanently increase my AC somehow?

Armor enhancements will not add to AC, they will just give you additional special abilities. Only increasing the armor bonus will increase your AC.
Expendable items are, by definition, expendable, and will not give you a permanent increase. There are items for other slots that will give you increases to AC, two of which have been mentioned.
A ring of protection gives you a +1 deflection bonus to AC, and costs 2,000 gp.
An amulet of natural armor gives you a +1 enhancement bonus to natural armor, and costs 2,000 gp.
Those two items stack.
Depending on what books you have, one of my favorite items is the ironward diamond from the Magic Item Compendium. It does not increase your AC, but a lesser one gives you DR 3/- for up to 30 hit points per day, and costs 2,000 gp.

For feats, virtually all feats that give an AC bonus provide only a +1 bonus to AC per feat. That means building AC by feats is not the best of options.

Talbot
2009-11-20, 04:15 AM
Ok, the buckler seems like a bad option then since my build is kinda centered on the whole two-handed weapon thing....

How do I get/stack Miss chances?

By permanent, I meant like, a potion I could take or something that would permanently up my AC somehow? I guess there isn't, but for some reason I thought there was.

Frog Dragon
2009-11-20, 04:34 AM
Well there is Cloak of Displacement.

SparkMandriller
2009-11-20, 04:47 AM
By permanent, I meant like, a potion I could take or something that would permanently up my AC somehow? I guess there isn't, but for some reason I thought there was.

A manual of quickness of action could do that. Costs 27500 or 55000 for 1 ac, depending on whether your dexterity's currently odd or not.

Maybe you should stick with the rings/amulets for now.

tyckspoon
2009-11-20, 05:09 AM
Ok, the buckler seems like a bad option then since my build is kinda centered on the whole two-handed weapon thing....


Complete Warrior has the feat Improved Buckler Defense, which allows you to use two weapons/a two-handed weapon and retain the buckler's AC bonus. Something to think about when you have enough cash/levels to get a meaningfully enchanted buckler; the base AC isn't enough to justify spending a feat (btw, if you did need proficiency for it, you've got it- Soulknives have shield proficiency.)

Mind if I ask what particular two-handed weapon you spent a feat to get to shape your Soulblade into (... holy crud that is an awkward sentence.) If you're just trying to get the extra Strength bonus and Power Attack modifier, you don't need a feat; you got that ability at level 5 when you became able to form a longsword or bastard sword, both of which can be used 2-handed. I hope you at least got reach or a tripping weapon out of it.

Talbot
2009-11-20, 05:16 AM
Complete Warrior has the feat Improved Buckler Defense, which allows you to use two weapons/a two-handed weapon and retain the buckler's AC bonus. Something to think about when you have enough cash/levels to get a meaningfully enchanted buckler; the base AC isn't enough to justify spending a feat (btw, if you did need proficiency for it, you've got it- Soulknives have shield proficiency.)

Mind if I ask what particular two-handed weapon you spent a feat to get to shape your Soulblade into (... holy crud that is an awkward sentence.) If you're just trying to get the extra Strength bonus and Power Attack modifier, you don't need a feat; you got that ability at level 5 when you became able to form a longsword or bastard sword, both of which can be used 2-handed. I hope you at least got reach or a tripping weapon out of it.


I'm a Dwarf, so, Dwarven Warpike. I like the damage/reach/crit multiplier, and I have combat reflexes and plan to take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, so I can trip (or attempt) anyone coming after me, and have no risk of being tripped back since as a soulknife I can drop my weapon with no real downside.

sonofzeal
2009-11-20, 05:30 AM
Buckler should still be fine. It's a -1 to attack rolls, +1 to AC, and can be enchanted as cheaply as armor (1000 * bonus squared). As previously stated, the non-proficiency doesn't matter as long as you use mithral (a flat extra 1000). Also, once you go Soulbow you don't need that off-hand, so you stop taking that -1 penalty. Woot!

Ring of Protection provides a deflection bonus, Amulet of Natural Armor proves a (gasp) natural armor bonus. Unless you're using AC-buff spells that provide bonuses of the same name, you should be good. Both cost (2000 * bonus squared), which isn't as cheap but still well worth it for a +1.


Easiest way to get miss chance is a Minor Cloak of Displacement. It's 24,000 though, so that's probably out of your reach right now.

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-20, 07:50 AM
Eberron Campaign setting has the Aberrant Dragonmark feat. It will let you cash the Shield spell for a +4 Shield bonus and auto blocks magic missile spells.

wormwood
2009-11-20, 08:42 AM
This is rather off-topic but I really feel that I need to bring it up. If you're dumping a lot of feats and gold into being good at using that two-handed soulblade, then you probably do not need to go into soulbow. That's going to make you mediocre at two things instead of really good at one.

I also second the idea of working on a miss-chance instead of AC. Unless you are the primary tank of the group and just really have a focus in AC, it will become more and more useless as you level up. The cloak of displacement is your friend.

dsmiles
2009-11-20, 08:46 AM
Ring of Protection, Bracers of Armor, Gloves of Dexterity, etc...

truemane
2009-11-20, 08:46 AM
There's the Psychic Mediation feat. I can't link it as it's all blocked from my place of work, but it's on the Wizards of the Coast website. Basically, you take the feat and you have a list of 'power centres' that you can awaken and they all offer various effects.

One of them, if I recall correctly, is an AC bonus. +3 I think. Again, I can't access the web-page. But if someone could post it, that would help.

EDIT: You could consider the War Mind PrC but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

EDIT 2: I second that Soulbow might not be your best bet. ESPECIALLY if you've devoted any of your scant resources into your 2-handed Soulblade. I love the class (Jedi, w00t!) but it's so poorly designed that it's hard to make it do anything.

ericgrau
2009-11-20, 11:35 AM
I have neither a ring of protection nor an amulet of natural armor. How much do they cost/what do they do/do they stack?
2,000 gp each for +1 (bonus x bonus x 2000). They stack with eachother and armor, which is why you want them so bad. Boosting armor from +1 to +2 costs 3,000gp so these are cheaper. Later get +2 armor & shield, a dusty rose prism ioun stone (5,000 gp for +1), then +3 armor (5,000 gp to upgrade from +2), then +2 ring & amulet (6,000 gp to ugprade from +1). Etc. Cheapest first. Far cheaper and more effective than boosting armor only.



And don't I need a proficiency for the buckler?
The penalty to hit for non-proficiency equals the armor check penalty, which is zero for a masterwork buckler. It provides a big AC boost, and is well worth the couple points of damage you lose from not fighting two handed. And with your medium BAB you don't want to blow more AB into power attack, unless you can get around that with shock trooper or something (assuming your DM even allows such things).

Talbot
2009-11-20, 11:36 AM
This is rather off-topic but I really feel that I need to bring it up. If you're dumping a lot of feats and gold into being good at using that two-handed soulblade, then you probably do not need to go into soulbow. That's going to make you mediocre at two things instead of really good at one.

I also second the idea of working on a miss-chance instead of AC. Unless you are the primary tank of the group and just really have a focus in AC, it will become more and more useless as you level up. The cloak of displacement is your friend.

Our party doesn't actually HAVE a tank, so I'm kind of filling the role for now (we've got a cleric, a Duskblade, and a Ranger, of whom no one has even 2/3 of my HP... although they all have superior AC except for the cleric). As for Soulbow, I know it's not optimal but A) our party is hurting for solid ranged attacks, and hopefully by the time I take some levels in that one of the others will be able to take some hits, at least if buffed by the Cleric B) giving me a ranged attacked gives my enemies incentive to try and come after me, which lets me whack away with combat reflexes and improved trip, and C) it fits with my character concept. Likely going to end up Soulknife 9/Soulbow 7/Ilumine Soul 4 (campaign has loads of undead). Also, because our DM is RAW focused, the Soulbow gives me that weird little BAB boost that'll make sure I have four attacks at level 20.

Cieyrin
2009-11-20, 01:47 PM
Soulknives are proficient in shields, so it's a moot point about needing the buckler to be mithral or even masterwork.