View Full Version : [4E] TWF Paths and TWF Feats

The J Pizzel
2009-11-20, 10:01 AM
One of my players built a TWF Ranger and wants to take the Two-Weapon Defense (TWD) feat. The TWD feat has the TWF feat as a prereq. My player doesn't think he should have to burn a feat on the TWF feat just to get the TWD feat, when his character is obviously already so "profiecient" in TWF due to his build.

This is the way I described it:

-TWD provides a +1 Shield bonus to AC and Reflex.
-For others to abtain that bonus, they either start with Light Shield Proficiency, or have to burn a feat to get it. So, they're either getting it free, or burning one feat.
-In either case, they're getting a +1 Shield bonus, but still not getting that +1 damage from TWF, or using TWF powers.
-In the TWF Rangers case, you're getting the use of TWF powers at the expense of AC and Reflex, so if you want to have your cake and eat it too (meaning being able to use TWF powers, and still manage a +1 shield bonus) you'll need to burn two feats. TWF and TWD.

Now....all that being said. I told him I would look to the playground to see if me making a little houserule would be overpowering:

"If a TWF build is available for a class and that build is chosen, that build counts as prerequisites for any TWF Feats."

Kurald Galain
2009-11-20, 10:26 AM
"If a TWF build is available for a class and that build is chosen, that build counts as prerequisites for any TWF Feats."

Go for it. The TWD is not exactly a stellar feat anyway.

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-20, 12:16 PM
I dont know why but I thought TWF rangers got the TWF feat for free. But I would say go for it, I let one of my guys do that and it was far from game braking.

Tiki Snakes
2009-11-20, 12:24 PM
Yeah, I thought they did myself. I think the problem isn't so much that the TWD feat isn't good, but that Two Weapon Fighting is really underwhelming.

So, yeah, I'd be happy to waive that pre-requisite.

2009-11-20, 02:21 PM
Be aware that TWD is a "+1 AC/Reflex for nothing" feat. There are no such other feats in Heroic.

I suspect that is why it is behind a "crappy feat wall".

You could make TWF a better feat by removing the clause about the main hand (ie, it just gives you a +1 to damage when using a pair of weapons). It then becomes a good feat for a Ranger (and way less fiddly) and most other TW characters.

Another approach is to turn TWF into an expertise feat: have it grant an expertise bonus of +1 (+2 at 16+, +3 at 26+) to all attacks made while using two weapons.