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nonamearisto
2009-11-20, 06:48 PM
I have a plan to make a Dragonborn character named Rhiga. Plan is to make her a rogue, not a bard. I found a pic which I will use for her on the D&D wiki. I make NO claim of ownership to this pic at all.

While I posted this pic of her in another section of this forum, I kinda have to do it again here to let the posters know what I am talking about. :smallredface:


http://media.dandwiki.com/w/images/8/8d/Dragonborn_Female.Jpg

The plan is to make her an independent female without making her stereotypical. It is very easy to see how one could fall into stereotypes here. lol. If you have any suggestions, I would be happy to hear them. Thanks. :smallbiggrin:

P.S. Yes, I plan to get her far more equipment than the pic shows. Think of this as her "civilian clothes."

Vadin
2009-11-20, 10:10 PM
Is this homebrew? Are you looking for rogue feats that are only for dragonborn?

Mando Knight
2009-11-20, 10:20 PM
1.) Spoiler the image, please. I've got a widescreen display and it's stretching my window. If'n ye don't know how, copy and paste this around the image tags:

2.) Character creation/personality discussion fits under the forum right above this one. I'd PM Roland, the Super-Mod-now-Admin, to move this thread for you rather than posting yet another thread.

One way to make her an independent character is to take a number of stereotypes and splice the aspects from them that you like. Just remember to think through how the character attributes fit together.

Based on the picture, the only thing I'm picking up is that she's got rather prodigious buttock muscles...

nonamearisto
2009-11-20, 11:02 PM
It goes under gaming? Okay. Good idea. I'll pm him soon. Thanks for that.

EDIT: Thanks Roland! :smallbiggrin:

FoE
2009-11-21, 12:36 AM
Dat's some impressive junk in de trunk she got dere.

A dragonborn rogue? That's an unusual character concept, so kudos for trying.

Here's my thought: dragonborn normally veer towards the kindness and valour Bahamut, but a lot of them embrace the greed and avarice of Tiamat. These dragonborn care about getting more and getting as much of it as they can.

While you probably don't want to make your character a Tiamat-worshipper, perhaps she could be driven by the acquisition of wealth. She relishes the power and comfort that wealth brings, but she isn't so greedy to gain wealth through the suffering of others. And she's seen a lot of dragonborn suffer misery and despair from having no lands or property to call their own.

That's why she's turned away from becoming a warrior like most of her kind; your character has only a fleeting interest in glory and valour. Her main interest is staying alive, and feeling comfortable while surviving. The rogue class makes the most sense for her.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 12:46 AM
Yeah, that was kinda the idea. She only takes from the rich... and usually the BAD rich at that. The kind that overwork the serfs and tax the heck out of the common people. As it is, a Dragonborn rogue appears in some of the earliest materials that WoTC released for 4e... in fact, that is where I got my cue for this one from.

And no, she doesn't worship Tiamat. She LOVES her comforts though. XD

She grew up with very little, as did her mother.

Thanks for the advice, though! It is certain to make a difference! :)

Katana_Geldar
2009-11-21, 06:38 AM
The rogue in my group is a dragonborn, yet he's more rogue than dragonborn and my LG paladin often takes issues with him.

BobVosh
2009-11-21, 07:10 AM
Yeah, that was kinda the idea. She only takes from the rich... and usually the BAD rich at that. The kind that overwork the serfs and tax the heck out of the common people. As it is, a Dragonborn rogue appears in some of the earliest materials that WoTC released for 4e... in fact, that is where I got my cue for this one from.

And no, she doesn't worship Tiamat. She LOVES her comforts though. XD

She grew up with very little, as did her mother.

Thanks for the advice, though! It is certain to make a difference! :)

Why not worship Big T and Big B equally? Go with...unaligned is what 4ed calls it I believe.


Also on an unrelated note: Why is it every time I see a 4ed dragonborn I rage?

Hal
2009-11-21, 08:19 AM
Will she always dress like that? Seems a little . . . underprotected. When I played a dragonborn rogue, I went for the black leather armor approach.

As for build suggestions, I really like Quick Draw for rogues if you don't have magic weaponry yet. Dragonborn also have good feats to boost their damage. However, I'd pass on anything related to dragon breath; the damage is based on Con, so you'll likely do very little damage with it. Best to leave it as a minion-clearing power.

jmbrown
2009-11-21, 08:41 AM
Dragonborn make good rogues. While they're not optimal (I hate using that word), their higher initiative and breath weapon generally lets them engage minions before the rest of the party.

Asbestos
2009-11-21, 09:57 AM
Why not worship Big T and Big B equally? Go with...unaligned is what 4ed calls it I believe.


Also on an unrelated note: Why is it every time I see a 4ed dragonborn I rage?

She's a rogue anyway, she doesn't need to be particularly dedicated to any one god.

Some dragonborn look cool, some border on disturbing... I'd put Ms Ass in the latter category. That might be part of it.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 10:40 AM
Unaligned sounds good. Also, she will wear more as she gets more equipment. Think of that image (found not made), as a set of "base garments" she wears in civilian settings that she will inevitably add to.

Can you imagine a level 15 or 20 dressed like that? :smalltongue:

Hzurr
2009-11-21, 11:49 AM
Can you imagine a level 15 or 20 dressed like that? :smalltongue:

It's a well known fact that the higher level a female character is, the less she wears!

(I've actually seen this in many a d&d video game)

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 12:36 PM
Does that have anything to do with her cleavage leveling up? :smallwink:

And we don't just mean "great cleave" here. XD

As it is, Rhiga (the character) lives in a warm place and doesn't have much money... plus it is an aid not to wear a lot while dancing... and her combat style relies on agility.

Mark Hall
2009-11-21, 12:45 PM
It's a well known fact that the higher level a female character is, the less she wears!

(I've actually seen this in many a d&d video game)

I leave it to you to reveal that to our githyanki. :smallbiggrin:

"Strip D&D... gain a level, lose an article of clothing."

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 01:46 PM
Well... she doesn't have much clothing to lose! XD :smallbiggrin:

I was aiming for the "natural look" with a female unashamed of her body. She certainly seems proud of her looks. :smallwink:

Mark Hall
2009-11-21, 02:26 PM
Well... she doesn't have much clothing to lose! XD :smallbiggrin:

I was aiming for the "natural look" with a female unashamed of her body. She certainly seems proud of her looks. :smallwink:

There's "unashamed of your body" and then there's "dancer in a rap video". Until we see her ripping the heads of people, I kinda lean towards the second. ;-)

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 02:30 PM
Well, she WOULD put a serious hurt on someone of a similar level if he tried to grope her... :smallwink:

She's not shy, but even she doesn't like being "touched" at random.

Asbestos
2009-11-21, 02:39 PM
In all honesty, why the heck does a Dragonborn need to wear the same amount of clothing as a Human if they aren't in an especially cold environment? Those scales look a bit tougher than slightly fuzzy epithelial tissue and would seem to be especially good at protecting against the sun's harmful rays. The only reasons a Dragonborn might wear clothes in a hot environment might be modesty, fashion, or armor.

Edit: Also it doesn't really look like her top even needs straps, she could probably get away with a sash/tube top.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 02:49 PM
Well, most images of Dragonborn are shown with either armor or modesty in mind. This one doesn't really use armor and she lets it all show! Well... minus two parts, anyway. :smallbiggrin:

Her skin does protect her from most sun rays... she likes to sun herself... also likes to do a lot of other cheap or free things, like walk in the woods, bathe in streams, get males to give her a massage... She really doesn't have much money... and that includes not a whole lot for clothes either. :smallwink:

Asbestos
2009-11-21, 03:14 PM
...get males to give her a massage...

:smalleek:

I feel like that wouldn't be fun with those claw-like fingernails they seem to sport.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 03:16 PM
They can use the palms of their hands or the fingertips... that, or they can be very gentle with her... scratch her back or something. I'm sure they can figure it out. It's not hard to believe a Dracon male would give an attractive female a back rub if she asked nicely. It's a lot easier to believe that than Dragons are more feline than reptile! XD :smallbiggrin:

Human Paragon 3
2009-11-21, 03:27 PM
The first 4e character I made was a dragonborn rogue. The idea in combat was to use the rogue powers that moved the enemy around to set up groups of them together then hit them with dragon breath. Obviously feats that improve breath weapon and powers that force movement are key.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 03:37 PM
Good point there. I'll heed your wisdom on that matter, you can be sure of it! :smallwink:

Yeah, dexterity is critical for rogues... especially if one is going for an artful dodger build.

I wonder... if I had said that she was a sorceress, would anyone have made a comment on the clothing? :smallwink:

EDIT: Well, I guess having some straps on that, even super-thin ones, are good for preventing any... wardrobe malfunctions. XD

TheEmerged
2009-11-21, 04:59 PM
Okay, let's talk mechanics for a moment.

1> Are you going Artful Dodger or Brutal Scoundrel? There are charms both ways for a dragonborn, since you get +Str and +Cha. If you go BS, make CHA your dump stat. If you go AD, make STR your dump stat. CON = HP, so it should never be a dump stat. WIS might be tempting... except that Perception is based off of it.

2> Similarly, this means you're probably going to be keying your breath weapon off Dex. "Poison" would be the stereotypical rogue damage form.

3> Now, how important is an 18 Dex (and attendant +4 Dex Mod) to you? If the answer is "Very", go ahead and spend the points for it. This will leave you with a 14 (before the +2 bonus, 16 after) in your secondary stat (STR for BS, CHA for AD), a 10 in your dump stat, and a random 11th point somewhere.

3a> Now, this is NOT necessarily the best option despite what the "optimizers" will tell you. If you accept a 16 DEX, that will free up 8 attribute points -- enough to take WIS to 14 and CON to 13, just to throw some numbers out.

4> To pick your skills right, you'd really need a good grasp of what the rest of your party has/needs. You get a bonus to History & Intimidate -- and you might well want to take Intimidate to benefit from some Rattling abilities. You will definitely want Perception. If you went BS you will have the Str to make Athletics a viable choice. If you went AD, the same applies to Streetwise.

4a> Now, there is the matter of backgrounds. In your place, I'd take the Criminal background and select the +2 to Thievery. Your mileage probably varies and all that.

5> Feat selection is a good problem to have for rogues AND dragonborns -- so many nice feats, so little feat selection :smallsmile: Now, the following is what I'd do, your mileage will almost certainly vary based on your DM and tastes.

>Slaying Action. As a rogue, your job in combat is to deal a lot of damage to singular targets. Slaying Action lets you get your Sneak Attack damage bonus twice a turn if using an action point (in practice, once every-other battle or so). IMHO, an essentially required feat for rogues.

>Skill Focus: Thievery. This is definitely one some people are going to disagree with. In my mind though, this is just a case of having the tools to do your job. In fairness though, a non-trivial percentage of DM's will respond by increasing the difficulty of all traps by +3.

>Hurl Breath: this is apparently a new one in the last character builder update (Dragon 365?). Anyway, it turns your breath weapon into a Area Burst 2 within 10. This will generally be more useful as a minion-breaker (and from what I've seen in play, that's primarily what the breath weapon becomes).

>Dragonborn Senses: another one from the "mileage varies greatly by DM" school.

>Warrior of the Wild: by far the most popular multiclass choice for most classes, it will add another skill to your list and the ability to do +1d6 damage to up to two attacks against one target.

I'll try to come back to this later.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 05:43 PM
Wow. Quite a mouthful. Let me address each point in turn, and thanks for taking the time to type all that! :smallbiggrin:

1. Going for Artful Dodger.

2. Either poison or acid. You make a good case for the former.

3. Not sure if 18 Dex is critical, but it definitely has to be high.

4. I'd need to know the other party's attributes first...

5. Thievery sounds like a good idea... although I need to make sure that it fits an objective niche in the game, and not just be "something that my character would have." Dragonborn senses sound good.

I'll need to spend a bit more time looking over all you've suggested. And thanks again! :smallbiggrin:

TheEmerged
2009-11-21, 08:22 PM
Okay, here's one possible writeup for Rhiga at level 1. This comes with the usual disclaimers that this is just a suggestion, your mileage may differ, and so forth.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Rhiga, level 1
Dragonborn, Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Dexterity
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Acid
Background: Occupation - Criminal (+2 to Thievery)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 14.


AC: 15 Fort: 11 Reflex: 15 Will: 13
HP: 25 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +8, Thievery +10, Acrobatics +8, Bluff +8, Intimidate +10, Perception +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +1, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Religion, Streetwise +3, Athletics

FEATS
Level 1: Slaying Action

POWERS
Rogue at-will 1: Sly Flourish
Rogue at-will 1: Clever Strike
Rogue encounter 1: Positioning Strike
Rogue daily 1: Handspring Assault

ITEMS
Thieves' Tools, Leather Armor, Dagger (2), Adventurer's Kit

Here's a sample at Level 10 -- I didn't bother to adjust the equipment. Same disclaimers, of course.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Rhiga, level 10
Dragonborn, Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Dexterity
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Acid
Background: Occupation - Criminal (+2 to Thievery)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 13, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 14.


AC: 21 Fort: 16 Reflex: 21 Will: 19
HP: 70 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 18

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +14, Thievery +19, Acrobatics +14, Bluff +14, Intimidate +16, Perception +13, Athletics +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +6, Heal +7, History +7, Insight +7, Nature +7, Religion +5, Streetwise +9

FEATS
Level 1: Slaying Action
Level 2: Hurl Breath
Level 4: Dragonborn Senses
Level 6: Skill Focus (Thievery)
Level 8: Warrior of the Wild
Level 10: Weapon Expertise (Light Blade)

POWERS
Rogue at-will 1: Clever Strike
Rogue at-will 1: Sly Flourish
Rogue encounter 1: Positioning Strike
Rogue daily 1: Handspring Assault
Rogue utility 2: Adaptable Flanker
Rogue encounter 3: Bait and Switch
Rogue daily 5: Surefooted Retort
Rogue utility 6: Ignoble Escape
Rogue encounter 7: From the Shadows
Rogue daily 9: Into Harm's Way
Rogue utility 10: Executioner's Mien

ITEMS
Thieves' Tools, Leather Armor, Dagger (2), Adventurer's Kit

jmbrown
2009-11-21, 08:26 PM
What's the high wisdom doing for her except a small increase to perception? Put her wisdom at 10 and bump up constitution or even lower constitution to bump up strength because her fort defense is seriously hurting.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 08:34 PM
WOW! This is great! Thank you VERY much for all this... it's amazing... far beyond the amount of help I thought I would get :biggrin:

And yes, I'll have to add some of that leather armor... the pic above is more useful for... well... call it her civilian garb. :smallbiggrin:

And maybe her strength will get a small bump up... I want her to be stronger than she looks...

Mando Knight
2009-11-21, 09:37 PM
What's the high wisdom doing for her except a small increase to perception? Put her wisdom at 10 and bump up constitution or even lower constitution to bump up strength because her fort defense is seriously hurting.

Agreed. Wisdom isn't useful enough to a Rogue to justify putting it that high. I'd actually pull it down to 10 and put the points into Strength to get 15 Strength, letting you grab some feats such as Brutal Teamwork (Martial Power, Dragonborn Rogue only, requires Str 15, boosts damage when adjacent to allies) or Hide armor proficiency (in case you really need another point of AC, or plan on going to Paragon and need 2 more points of AC more than you do 2 feats).

The main attraction of being a Dragonborn Rogue is that you can almost go half & half with your power selection, since you'll have a decent enough Strength and Charisma to modify both sets of powers.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 09:56 PM
Aren't Dex and Cha the most important anyway for a rogue?

Asbestos
2009-11-21, 10:14 PM
Aren't Dex and Cha the most important anyway for a rogue?

Dex and then either Cha or Str (or both) depending on the build.

Mando Knight
2009-11-21, 10:20 PM
Aren't Dex and Cha the most important anyway for a rogue?

For an Artful Dodger rogue, yes. For a Brutal Scoundrel, Strength is more important than Charisma. A Dragonborn Rogue is nearly unique in that it takes little effort to build them in a way that they can dip into the other build's powers.

If you're allowed DDI material, I'd look into the new duelist powers from Dragon 381 (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drcact/20091104), since they benefit from a high Charisma. The moderate Strength is mostly for applying for feats that you might find useful, and for a handful of powers like Blade Vault that allow you to apply your Strength modifier to damage or other effects.

nonamearisto
2009-11-21, 11:06 PM
Hmm... I don't have too many details right now, but it seems like a high Dex, high Cha, and slightly high Str are what are called for right now. The only question is, what will this do to the other stats...? :smallconfused:

Sir Homeslice
2009-11-22, 06:04 AM
Hmm... I don't have too many details right now, but it seems like a high Dex, high Cha, and slightly high Str are what are called for right now. The only question is, what will this do to the other stats...? :smallconfused:

High Dex, and depending on AD or BS, a good Cha or Str respectively.

As for every other stat? Ignore them. As a rogue, Dex is literally all you need, with the secondary being the other stat for what benefit you chose.

Mando Knight
2009-11-22, 09:47 AM
High Dex, and depending on AD or BS, a good Cha or Str respectively.

As for every other stat? Ignore them. As a rogue, Dex is literally all you need, with the secondary being the other stat for what benefit you chose.

Well, having at least 12 Con is almost a given for a Dragonborn, as it helps both your Dragon Breath damage and Healing Surge value.

nonamearisto
2009-11-22, 01:05 PM
Good point. Hmm... In this case, it will be primarily Dex and Cha...

Thanks for all the help! :smallbiggrin:

I guess for high strength, the artists make the males bulky, and just make the females really, really toned. :smallwink:

nonamearisto
2009-11-22, 09:30 PM
Does anyone think this is even a toned figure?

http://media.dandwiki.com/w/images/8/8d/Dragonborn_Female.Jpg

Asbestos
2009-11-22, 09:37 PM
It's hard to tell with all the scales...the legs look reasonably toned I suppose... not sure what muscles are under those ass implants.

nonamearisto
2009-11-22, 09:39 PM
I'll take that as a "yes." :smallbiggrin:

She'd kick your ass if you called those "implants" to her face. :smallbiggrin:

Well... maybe your PC. :smallwink:

Mando Knight
2009-11-22, 11:04 PM
Not sure what those are if they're not implants, other than a ridiculously prodigious pair of rear-cushions.

nonamearisto
2009-11-22, 11:21 PM
Those would be fake IF she were human... she isn't, though. :smallwink:

Those are all-natural... unlike SOME sorceresses who use "enhancement" spells... :smallbiggrin:

I'm surprised we are mentioning her posterior, though. 9 out of 10 times, it's the mammaries that get the charge of "FAKE!!!" XD

Mando Knight
2009-11-22, 11:57 PM
It's because compared to her unusually-shaped rear, her chest is tiny.

Her theme song? "Baby Got Back." Nothing else fits.

nonamearisto
2009-11-23, 12:00 AM
Well, her chest has something over it to obscure it... but you are correct.

I guess the artist could get away with showing more of one part over the other...:smallwink:

TheEmerged
2009-11-23, 08:09 PM
What's the high wisdom doing for her except a small increase to perception? Put her wisdom at 10 and bump up constitution or even lower constitution to bump up strength because her fort defense is seriously hurting.

I gave the 'your mileage may differ' disclaimer, yes? That this was advice, not "You must play this way", yes? Okay then.

Personally I'd call Str on a +Cha rogue a poor decision. Now Constitution I could understand moving a point to (or switching the 13 Con/14 Wis to 14 Con/13 Wis). Str on a Brutal Scoundrel rogue, now, like the one in the party I DM? Beautiful thing :smallcool:

Your "small increase to perception" is +2, 10%. Now, if all your DM is doing is running a wargame, I guess that's not a big deal. Speaking for myself, if the party isn't making a perception roll every other battle or so I feel like I'm not doing my job designing the encounters.

If I were playing the rogue instead of DMing, I'd consider finding stuff (traps, secret doors, other rogues) 1/3 of my job (along with unlocking/disarming stuff and "You can has stabbity"). And obviously, if you have another party member that can fill the perception gap (pun intended) then this isn't as big of an issue.

As always, your mileage can (and probably will) vary.

nonamearisto
2009-11-23, 08:16 PM
Yeah... I didn't notice the 'your milage may vary' part... :smallredface:

My bad. :smallredface::smallredface:

And thanks again! :smallsmile::smallsmile:

Asbestos
2009-11-23, 09:38 PM
Personally I'd call Str on a +Cha rogue a poor decision. Now Constitution I could understand moving a point to (or switching the 13 Con/14 Wis to 14 Con/13 Wis). Str on a Brutal Scoundrel rogue, now, like the one in the party I DM? Beautiful thing :smallcool:

For a Ruthless Ruffian a Str/Cha boost is great because of the MAD they suffer. Though, her appearance does not particularly scream Ruthless or Ruffian.

nonamearisto
2009-11-23, 10:33 PM
Yeah... more like the other kind of rogue... the stealthy kind. :smallsmile: