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Mongoose87
2009-11-20, 10:42 PM
I need help. My DM has given us so much; I don't know what else to take. We're level 40, and I've just finished my third prestige class (two home brewed Epic ones and Ruby Knight Windicator). I can cast spells as a 29th level Mystic Theurge, I know the best maneuvers of the Devoted Spirit, White Raven, Stone Dragon and Diamond Mind disciplines. I have a divine rank of 5 and my melee attacks are touch attacks. I can make Epic maneuvers, and have used Avalanche of Blades to kill a Rank 20 deity in one turn. I don't know what to do with myself! I'm too good! My whole party is too good! I have 1/2 level to to Wisdom and Charisma, and Divine grace! I can't even fail saves anymore!

Does anybody have any ideas, homebrewed, obscure or otherwise for classes feat, salient divine abilities, ANYTHING I could use? I'm almost compelled to take tons of Great Charisma, to see how high I can get it. We have Pathfinder feat progressions, so we get a feat every even level. Plus, an average Epic class, in this party, has an awesome class feature or two every level, and a bonus feat every other. A d12 HP and 6 skill points is normal for our Epic Prestige classes!

EDIT: For a little bit of detail, we can use any 3.5 source book, plus Pathfinder, and any home brew/Dragon that the DM approves (which is usually anything.)

taltamir
2009-11-20, 10:49 PM
did the DM actually rewire the epic fail that is the epic magic system?
Because it is simply completely and utterly unsuitable for being a game... its just a "I win button".
Epic spells are uncastable and worthless unless you mitigate them, they are only worhwhile if you mitigate them to the point where they are practically free or free... in which case you just get arbitrarily high bonuses to everything.

Mongoose87
2009-11-20, 10:51 PM
did the DM actually rewire the epic fail that is the epic magic system?
Because it is simply completely and utterly unsuitable for being a game... its just a "I win button".
Epic spells are uncastable and worthless unless you mitigate them, they are only worhwhile if you mitigate them to the point where they are practically free or free... in which case you just get arbitrarily high bonuses to everything.

No, Epic spells are as is. We also have Epic Maneuvers. I have one that does 134d20 damage. It is a boost, and affects all my attacks that turn. We don't keep proper track of XP, so XP burn is pretty much free.

tyckspoon
2009-11-20, 10:54 PM
You can either look up some of the post-epic rules some people have designed, or you can recognize that you have gone far beyond where D&D is meant to work, figure out some suitably memorable way to retire the campaign, and start new (possible third option: transition to a different game system that is better designed to accommodate such characters.) Me, I'd retire it.

infinitypanda
2009-11-20, 10:56 PM
Augmented Alchemy! Take it, you won't be sorry.

Crow
2009-11-20, 10:57 PM
You could always pick up the SDA's Arcane Mastery, Divine Spellcasting, and Spontaneous Wizard Spells, in that order.

Spontaneously cast any spell that you can imagine (no need to research new wizard spells due to Arcane Mastery!). Epic Spellcasting Lite.

Mongoose87
2009-11-20, 10:59 PM
You could always pick up the SDA's Arcane Mastery, Divine Spellcasting, and Spontaneous Wizard Spells, in that order.

Spontaneously cast any spell that you can imagine (no need to research new wizard spells due to Arcane Mastery!). Epic Spellcasting Lite.

That reminds me: I have my level to all Charisma-based skills, and a bottomless supply of money, plus one rank in UMD. So, with my HHHaverysack, and pile of EVERY arcane spellscroll, I don't really have a need for any arcane casting.


You can either look up some of the post-epic rules some people have designed, or you can recognize that you have gone far beyond where D&D is meant to work, figure out some suitably memorable way to retire the campaign, and start new (possible third option: transition to a different game system that is better designed to accommodate such characters.) Me, I'd retire it.

My DM did a survey of us for much longer we wanted to continue this campaign. The shortest option was to January. I voted for it. The second shortest, to May/June won. He plans for us to reach level 99.

Draz74
2009-11-20, 11:35 PM
There's a lot of good stuff in the other 5 ToB disciplines. Perhaps you want to go Swordsage 2 / Master of Nine 5? Feat-intensive, but awesome. Of course keep your Epic Spellcasting running full blast through all of those levels.

Or you could start working your way toward Factotum 8, so that you can cast two epic spells per round instead of one.

Crow
2009-11-21, 03:28 PM
That reminds me: I have my level to all Charisma-based skills, and a bottomless supply of money, plus one rank in UMD. So, with my HHHaverysack, and pile of EVERY arcane spellscroll, I don't really have a need for any arcane casting.

With my combo, you can actually create new spells on the fly.

BRC
2009-11-21, 05:43 PM
At this point of the game, you have basically done everything that you can do. Technically, yes, you can make your character more powerful, but you won't notice it. Therefore, the only option is to begin taking levels in Commoner, Skill Focus Perform: Interpretive Dance, and start wearing a very fashionable hat.

Mongoose87
2009-11-21, 05:48 PM
At this point of the game, you have basically done everything that you can do. Technically, yes, you can make your character more powerful, but you won't notice it. Therefore, the only option is to begin taking levels in Commoner, Skill Focus Perform: Interpretive Dance, and start wearing a very fashionable hat.

I actually noticed during this week's session - I have a perform of 68 without any ranks in it.

BRC
2009-11-21, 05:50 PM
I actually noticed during this week's session - I have a perform of 68 without any ranks in it.
Therefore, your only option is to take a vow of silence, and communicate entierly VIA interpretive dance.

Mongoose87
2009-11-21, 05:59 PM
Therefore, your only option is to take a vow of silence, and communicate entierly VIA interpretive dance.

Would my DM ever hate me. Though with my Diplomacy of 120, I could make people worship my dance.


With my combo, you can actually create new spells on the fly.

I cast as a Favored Soul, so I think the combo of Arcane Mastery, altered to be Divine Mastery, and Divine Spellcasting would probably do anything I wanted, wouldn't it?

Boci
2009-11-21, 06:00 PM
Point out to your DM that the circamstances has changed and to keep on playing now seems unfeasable? Unless you do not feel so, but I got the impression you do.

BRC
2009-11-21, 06:07 PM
Start giving your DM subtle hints that the campaign should start ending. Ways to do this

1: At the beginning of one session, ask your DM what the Craft Check would be for a Universe. No matter his response, nod and make a note of it.
2: Take a very, very long time each combat round as you add up your damage, wade through your options, ect.
3: Begin using Gods as improvised weapons.
4: Ask him what the DC would be to use Disable Device on Mechanius
5: Ask him the break DC for the 4th wall
6: Whenever you fight an opopnent, kill them, reanimate them as the most powerful undead you can, and then heal them to death, just because you can.
7: Teleport Everywhere. And I mean that. Going to the kitchen for a snack, Teleport. Getting out of bed, teleport.
8: Whenever you encounter a mountain, spend an hour building a city out of it.

Mongoose87
2009-11-21, 06:17 PM
Point out to your DM that the circamstances has changed and to keep on playing now seems unfeasable? Unless you do not feel so, but I got the impression you do.

We did the poll about two weeks ago - I doubt he's changed his mind.



2: Take a very, very long time each combat round as you add up your damage, wade through your options, ect.
3: Begin using Gods as improvised weapons.
7: Teleport Everywhere. And I mean that. Going to the kitchen for a snack, Teleport. Getting out of bed, teleport.

#2 Happens to everyone, every turn. #3 has happened. As for #7, we recently teleported to a really good noodle house our Warblade/crazy person knows in Sharn.

8: Whenever you encounter a mountain, spend an hour building a city out of it.

We have more of a mountain-leveling track record than city building.

BRC
2009-11-21, 06:21 PM
We did the poll about two weeks ago - I doubt he's changed his mind.


#2 Happens to everyone, every turn. #3 has happened. As for #7, we recently teleported to a really good noodle house our Warblade/crazy person knows in Sharn.


We have more of a mountain-leveling track record than city building.
If #2 is constantly happening, your DM isn't getting the point. Start bringing a book to sessions, read it when it's not your combat turn. Or start taking naps.

As for the Mountains, leveling a mountain is easy, and occasionally has a purpose. Walking past a mountain, and spending a day turning it into a city, or a giant statue of the party is another thing entierly.

And I mean every time you get to a mountain. Not if you need to cross it, or the bad guys are hiding in it (Though you do it then to). You just approach it, and BOOM, it's a giant statue of you.

DementedFellow
2009-11-21, 06:23 PM
Change tactics and only do grapple checks in battle. But do it with a bunch of buffs and potentially debuffs that counteract each other and take forever trying to figure out what the modifier would be.

mostlyharmful
2009-11-21, 06:23 PM
9. begin creating new races for weird ecological niches, like under the kitchen sink or in glass jars on your shelf - belief is about number and level of souls not size of body after all
10. stop using any magic beyound a randomly chosen school, see if you can go all the way with just Necro or Abj or something
11. Begin towing around a harem/following, that grows exponentially with each episode (sorry, game session)
12. Lose artifacts and major magic items, don't be sorry and just make new ones.:smallwink:

RandomNPC
2009-11-21, 06:50 PM
the easiest way to end a game, surrender to the bad guy, even help them fight party members who don't surrender. when you get killed off roll up a first level human fighter with the following:

Any exotic weapon. (note you aren't proficient with it.)
feat: human: Skill focus preform
feat: Fighter1: Dodge
feat: first level: acrobatic

when the group asks why tell them you're tired of playing an invincible character. then pull out a real first level character you made up for each one of them, incase they didn't have one ready. But play your sub-optimal fighter.

Temotei
2009-11-21, 07:06 PM
You could take a level in samurai, stab someone in the back, then say that you were dishonorable, and therefore have to kill yourself. It'll only take 600 stabs! :smallbiggrin:

Moff Chumley
2009-11-21, 07:24 PM
1) Use the universe as an improvised weapon
2) Against the DM

Either half, together or on their own, works.

Mongoose87
2009-11-21, 07:29 PM
You could take a level in samurai, stab someone in the back, then say that you were dishonorable, and therefore have to kill yourself. It'll only take 600 stabs! :smallbiggrin:

I could wait for annihilating strike, then use a combination of Spirited Charge, my valorous lance, leap attack and my Epic boost that adds 134d20 damge to charge myself.

sofawall
2009-11-21, 07:47 PM
You cannot charge yourself, as you are not 10 feet away from yourself.

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-21, 07:55 PM
You cannot charge yourself, as you are not 10 feet away from yourself.That's easy enough to get around; develop an epic spell that makes you into two of yourself, each of which possesses half your hit points. Have a mitigating clause in the spell effect that if either dies, both die. Then you can charge yourself. :smalltongue:

Oslecamo
2009-11-21, 07:57 PM
You cannot charge yourself, as you are not 10 feet away from yourself.

Well duh! Create a clone and kill yourself with charges that way!

Anyway, if your game has surpassed the IT'S OVER 9000000000!!! barrier, I would sugest you create your own army of deities.

And then dual wield them.

Get extra arms and hit your oponents with multiple deities per turn!

Alternatively, start creating your super-epic classes, since you're level 40 and stuff.

I must say, you're the living example that people can have fun with a game spiraled completely out of control. Your DM is either a crazy or a genius. Probably both, since you still haven't grown bored out of it.

Mongoose87
2009-11-21, 08:08 PM
You cannot charge yourself, as you are not 10 feet away from yourself.

I have Alter Reality and can cast Miracle 12 times a day. I'm 10 feet away from myself if I say I am.

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-21, 08:21 PM
I have Alter Reality and can cast Miracle 12 times a day. I'm 10 feet away from myself if I say I am.Be sure and use a Thinuan weapon to charge yourself with, so as to prevent any pesky attempts to bring you back.

Asbestos
2009-11-21, 08:24 PM
Just destroy the dang planet. That'll end the campaign.

Acanous
2009-11-21, 09:52 PM
I believe a change of system is in order.

Your uber-epic godlings need something challenging. Convert them to RIFTS. Assault Chi-Town.

Mongoose87
2009-11-21, 11:10 PM
I believe a change of system is in order.

Your uber-epic godlings need something challenging. Convert them to RIFTS. Assault Chi-Town.

Most of our enemies, of late, have been members of the Dark Six. Most of them also do not provide a challenge.

root9125
2009-11-21, 11:16 PM
Be a Cleric.

Of YOURSELF.

industrious
2009-11-21, 11:27 PM
Switch to Exalted? I've never played it myself, but from what I've heard...

Frosty
2009-11-22, 03:43 AM
Go attack Ao for fun.

Mongoose87
2009-11-22, 03:46 AM
Go attack Ao for fun.

It's in Eberron. There is no Ao. The gods aren't even stated - our DM had to make them up so we could fight them.

Tiki Snakes
2009-11-22, 12:04 PM
It's in Eberron. There is no Ao. The gods aren't even stated - our DM had to make them up so we could fight them.

You're level 40 with epic spellcasting. You'll apparently be 99 before you're allowed to stop.
Go to Faerun and attack Ao for fun.

ocdscale
2009-11-22, 12:28 PM
Most of our enemies, of late, have been members of the Dark Six. Most of them also do not provide a challenge.


It's in Eberron. There is no Ao. The gods aren't even stated - our DM had to make them up so we could fight them.

This is the problem them, your DM is good at making high powered homebrews but isn't keeping the encounters challenging.
As for how to keep things challenging for level 40 PCs, I have no idea, the game isn't designed to be played at that level (the same could be said for level 21).

If you enjoy beating encounters (bragging rights?) due to your arbitrarily high numbers and just want more power, Crow's suggestion is a good one. Check it out to see if you can work it into Divine spell casting.
If you feel like the game isn't as fun anymore due to the lack of challenge, talk to the other players and the GM.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-22, 12:54 PM
Fight all the elder evils at once?

Acanous
2009-11-22, 01:22 PM
A RIFTS conversion would be an adequate challenge. From your reply, I take it you've never played that system, so I'll hash out some of the finer points of RIFTS.

First: Your epic godly AC of doom means nothing. Unless you get Autododge, and fast, baddies are rolling DC 4 to hit you. (Lasers and Plasma weapons only)
Secondly: Your spells per day are all converted into spell points, called PPE.
Third: Some Psionics can smell you, others can cancel your abilities. The good ones can erase your brain with a standard action. They have to beat a set DC, you get no save. Upon entering that world, you're going to show up like a giant PPE Beacon to every bad thing in the country.
Fourth: The Coalition uses nukes and orbital laser defenses against Godlings.
Fifth: Everything Magic can do, Technomagic can do better. Although if you're sent up against the CS, this shouldn't come up.

You're going to do a lot of damage. You might even take out Chi Town, if you're canny, savvy, and a little bit lucky.

But RIFTS? RIFTS is where munchkings go to get the tar beat out of them by bigger, badder things.

Dr Bwaa
2009-11-22, 03:09 PM
40 levels of Chaos Mage. You won't be sorry :smallcool:

taltamir
2009-11-22, 08:24 PM
Be a Cleric.

Of YOURSELF.

I like this one... a lot!

Mongoose87
2009-11-22, 11:40 PM
FYI, this is the prestige class I have drawn up for my next ten+ levels. I expect it to be approved, or possibly be told it's not strong enough.

Deific Exemplar


Prerequisites:
Salient Divine Ability: Alter Reality
Divine Rank of at least 5

Skills: All, 6 + Int

D12 HD

1
Godly Knowledge, Master of Making, Old Testament Style, Chosen People
+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
2
New Testament Style, Bonus Feat
+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
3
Wise Ways
+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
4
Divine Rank +1, Bonus Feat,
+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
5

+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
6
Bonus Feat,
+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
7

+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
8
Divine Rank +1, Bonus Feat
+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
9

+1 of existing divine spellcasting class
10
Deific Wisdom, Bonus Feat
+1 of existing divine spellcasting class

Godly Knowledge: You possess an uncanny understanding of the world around you. As you become more comfortable and adept manipulating the world around you, you learn more about it. You may add your level to any knowledge checks you make.

Bonus Feat: The Deific Exemplar gains a bonus feat every two levels.

Master of Making: Created from clay, the world may be molded as clay. You are unparalleled with your Alter Reality salient divine ability and may use it in ways beyond what is normal for deities. For purposes of determining the strength of your alterations, add one fifth your class level (minimum one) to your divine rank.

You may create life with your alter reality ability. This requires a day of concentration for an intelligent species you have a part of, or six to make from scratch. Species with under 3 intelligence take one hour to create per hit die.

Any unique, intelligent species created by you recognizes their origin and automatically worships you. This could backfire.

You can also make whatever other cool toys you feel like making with it, pending DM approval.

Chosen People: You name the Jews as your special friends. No one ever resents this or picks on them. EVER. I swear!

Old Testament Style: The wrath of a god is truly terrible, yours particularly so. In your fury, you may call down a variety of terrible punishment on those who defy your will. Using this ability, you may call down up to twice your divine rank in spell levels of offensive spells. You may also include up to your divine rank in metamagic effects. Use your total hit dice to determine your caster level for these spells. Save DCs are equal to 10 + total spell levels + Charisma modifier + divine rank. Any numerical effects of spells are doubled when used against individuals without divine ranks. This requires a standard action. You gain an additional use of this ability every every fourth level after 1st.

New Testament Style: Just as the wrath of a god is terrible, the grace of one is bliss. This ability functions just as the ability “Old Testament Style” does, except using beneficial spells. You gain an additional use of this ability every four levels after second.

Wise Ways: A god values his wisdom above all else, and it serves him well. At third level, and every three levels after, you may choose a single check and replace its associated attribute with Wisdom. For example, you could choose to apply Wisdom to all Knowledge (Religion) checks, instead of intelligence. This is limited to checks – skills checks, grapple checks and similar rolls.

Divine Rank: At fourth level and every four levels after, your divine rank increases.

Deific Wisdom: The might of your mind is beyond that or mortal ken, and you draw strength from it. Every ten class levels, you may choose a single statistic determined by another attribute, and use your Wisdom to determine it. For example, you may choose to determine you Fortitude save with your wisdom, your bonus hitpoints from constitution, or your melee attack bonus.