rubycona
2009-11-20, 11:23 PM
I've been looking over the spells and something's bugging me. It doesn't seem to say anywhere whether or not a caster realized a spell failed due to a successful save (namely, will saves).
For instance, say a wizard casts suggestion on a lower level wizard. Lowbie wizard succeeds on both spellcraft and the will save, so is under no compulsion, but recognizes the higher level wizard tried to compel him. If the higher level wizard doesn't know the lowbie passed the save, then the lowbie might try a bluff check to make the caster think that he's now under a magical compulsion, so he can get away with no trouble.
But if the higher level wizard Does know the spell failed, then, of course, he can't be fooled that way, and may try another response. This actually will matter a great deal in my upcoming D&D game.
From my perspective, there's 3 kinds of will-savey spells: direct to mind, a "blanket" effect, or a magically altered area.
Direct to mind, like Detect Thoughts, Charm Person, or Discern Lies... to me, it seems like the caster should know that the target succeeded on the will save. Spells like Hypnotism & Dictum are "blanket" effects, to me, and I really have no idea if the spellcaster should know if the target(s) passed the save. And finally, area spells, like Zone of Truth, which stay in place regardless of what the caster proceeds to do... to me, these, the caster should Not know if people inside the zone passed the will save.
So, all, what's your take? And do the rules actually state this stuff anywhere? (If so, where? I couldn't find it). Should all spellcasters Not know, unless there's an obvious indication (IE, "You b****, you tried to cast a spell on me, didn't you?" In reaction to a Suggestion spell). Should all spellcasters know if someone passed the will save, even with spells like Zone of Truth? Do you split up spells into similar categories as I did, and decide it according to that, or some other method of determination?
Additionally, I've gotten the impression from reading that you can tell that something went against you if you pass the will save. IE, if you're minding your own business, and someone casts, say, Dominate Person on you, but you pass the save, then you Know something tried to do something to you, though not what it was. Do you guys agree with that perspective?
Thanks, all, for your help :) (This forums rocks, btw :P)
For instance, say a wizard casts suggestion on a lower level wizard. Lowbie wizard succeeds on both spellcraft and the will save, so is under no compulsion, but recognizes the higher level wizard tried to compel him. If the higher level wizard doesn't know the lowbie passed the save, then the lowbie might try a bluff check to make the caster think that he's now under a magical compulsion, so he can get away with no trouble.
But if the higher level wizard Does know the spell failed, then, of course, he can't be fooled that way, and may try another response. This actually will matter a great deal in my upcoming D&D game.
From my perspective, there's 3 kinds of will-savey spells: direct to mind, a "blanket" effect, or a magically altered area.
Direct to mind, like Detect Thoughts, Charm Person, or Discern Lies... to me, it seems like the caster should know that the target succeeded on the will save. Spells like Hypnotism & Dictum are "blanket" effects, to me, and I really have no idea if the spellcaster should know if the target(s) passed the save. And finally, area spells, like Zone of Truth, which stay in place regardless of what the caster proceeds to do... to me, these, the caster should Not know if people inside the zone passed the will save.
So, all, what's your take? And do the rules actually state this stuff anywhere? (If so, where? I couldn't find it). Should all spellcasters Not know, unless there's an obvious indication (IE, "You b****, you tried to cast a spell on me, didn't you?" In reaction to a Suggestion spell). Should all spellcasters know if someone passed the will save, even with spells like Zone of Truth? Do you split up spells into similar categories as I did, and decide it according to that, or some other method of determination?
Additionally, I've gotten the impression from reading that you can tell that something went against you if you pass the will save. IE, if you're minding your own business, and someone casts, say, Dominate Person on you, but you pass the save, then you Know something tried to do something to you, though not what it was. Do you guys agree with that perspective?
Thanks, all, for your help :) (This forums rocks, btw :P)