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Rasman
2009-11-21, 07:11 AM
So after 5 levels of monk, I'm looking at moving onto the Swordsage class, but I had a question in regards to how many maneuvers and stances I would have known and how many maneuvers I could ready. So, if I'm Monk5/Swordsage1, would I be considered as knowing 8 Maneuvers, Ready 5 and know two stances? or would I just know 8 Maneuvers, but be able to ready 4 and know one stance? Would I also be able to take from the second level Maneuvers, in this instance?

Justyn
2009-11-21, 07:14 AM
So after 5 levels of monk, I'm looking at moving onto the Swordsage class, but I had a question in regards to how many maneuvers and stances I would have known and how many maneuvers I could ready. So, if I'm Monk5/Swordsage1, would I be considered as knowing 8 Maneuvers, Ready 5 and know two stances? or would I just know 8 Maneuvers, but be able to ready 4 and know one stance? Would I also be able to take from the second level Maneuvers, in this instance?

If I read the book correctly, you would know them as a first level swordsage: you know 6 maneuvers, be able to ready 4, and have one stance. But you would be able to pick them as if you were a third level swordsage (you can pick second level maneuvers.)

Rasman
2009-11-21, 07:34 AM
If I read the book correctly, you would know them as a first level swordsage: you know 6 maneuvers, be able to ready 4, and have one stance. But you would be able to pick them as if you were a third level swordsage (you can pick second level maneuvers.)

yeah, it's not very clear about that, but I figured I'd ask anyway before I asked my DM

that's a limitation I can deal with at least, not as many, but stronger anyway, so all is good I suppose...thnx for the insight

The Dark Fiddler
2009-11-21, 07:40 AM
Just wondering, are you taking the unarmed variant?

Normally I hate whenever brings it up, since it's almost always 'Unarmed Swordsage is better monk than monk', but since you're multi-classing in...

I mean, the variant does advance unarmed damage.

Rasman
2009-11-21, 08:18 AM
Just wondering, are you taking the unarmed variant?

Normally I hate whenever brings it up, since it's almost always 'Unarmed Swordsage is better monk than monk', but since you're multi-classing in...

I mean, the variant does advance unarmed damage.

yeah, it would be a little nonsensical to do anything else, tbh, considering I'd just lose all my monk abilities if I wore light armor anyway, so the Unarmed Swordsage will pretty much just be a supplement to my Monk levels

I do wish the basic monk were stronger and am slightly on the side that Unarmed Swordsage is better, but that's only because the flair that people want with a monk was built into the Swordsage, frankly, if you just combined the classes, they would be completely on par with all the popular builds and the whole "Monks suck" argument would finally end...having a DM that lets you take full BAB progression helps though

Duke of URL
2009-11-21, 03:07 PM
You would have maneuvers and stances as a 1st-level swordsage, with ML 3, allowing for 2nd level maneuvers.

However, by RAW, your lone stance must be a 1st level stance. This is frequently houseruled away, but the actual text requires it to be 1st level.

Kosjsjach
2009-11-21, 03:29 PM
...by RAW, your lone stance must be a 1st level stance. This is frequently houseruled away, but the actual text requires it to be 1st level.

I wasn't aware of that rule (could you quote it for me?), but it works out anyway: there are no 2nd-level stances, oddly enough.

Tackyhillbillu
2009-11-21, 03:45 PM
Thats intentional. The stances are clocked pretty carefully to avoid people abusing them.

TOB is a very tightly written book, especially in regards to the three base classes, and the Stance/Maneuver system. Pretty much everything has a purpose.

Duke of URL
2009-11-21, 09:18 PM
I wasn't aware of that rule (could you quote it for me?), but it works out anyway: there are no 2nd-level stances, oddly enough.

I think I can get away with a brief snippet. (Fair use, and all.)

Stances Known : You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to you.

Salanmander
2009-11-21, 10:16 PM
Thats intentional. The stances are clocked pretty carefully to avoid people abusing them.

TOB is a very tightly written book, especially in regards to the three base classes, and the Stance/Maneuver system. Pretty much everything has a purpose.

Mmm, TOB is fairly tightly written, but you can't ignore the possibility of occasional typos and/or oversights, especially with the...um...state of the errata. The best example typo probably being swordsages getting 6x skill points at first level, and the best example oversight probably being infinite damage crusaders.

So it may be intentional, but I'm not convinced.

Master_Rahl22
2009-11-22, 01:57 PM
Any particular reason you're not going to grab Monk 6 first? It would give you a feat, and +1 BAB, +1 to all saves, and 10ft faster speed. Other than that, the previous posters are correct about your maneuvers. The Setting Sun and Shadow Hand ones give some very cool Monk flavor, with the throwing opponents across the battlefield and disappearing into your own shadow to pop out behind somebody. Also, Shadowsun Ninja is a great PrC for Monks that know some Setting Sun and Shadow Hand maneuvers, so you might consider that.

Keld Denar
2009-11-22, 02:51 PM
The other thing about taking Monk6 before SS1 would be the fact that your IL would be the same. If you went Monk5/SS2, you'd have an IL of 4, if you went Monk6/SS1 you'd have an IL of 4. Then, when you get your 2nd stance at SS2, you'd have an IL of 5, and qualify for a 3rd level stance.

If you DM tosses out the stupid monk multiclassing rules, you could get SS1 next level, then go back and take the 6th level of monk, then go back and take more SS levels. This would get you manevuers ASAP, and they would be the same power as if you were one level higher. Cause face it, having maneuvers is WAY more fun than not having maneuvers.