New Moon

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Discuss, people!

*Pulls up a chair and makes popcorn*

[T-O-E]

All Twilight discussion here basically boils down to:
"Twilight is lame"
"No it isn't, maybe if you actually read/saw it..."
"Why did you read/see it if you don't like it? You're not in the target audience."

[Cracklord]

I'm not sure exactly when vampires stopped being horrific and became vehicles for adolescent angst and middle class whinging, but I believe Twilight to be the tip of the boil. And I believe Stepanie Meyer should be burned on a massive pile of her works.

I am perfectly justified in this conclusion, I have read it. I want those wasted hours of my life back, but I have read book one and two.

[Starscream]

All Twilight discussion here basically boils down to:
"Twilight is lame"
"No it isn't, maybe if you actually read/saw it..."
"Why did you read/see it if you don't like it? You're not in the target audience."

Yeah, this has been every discussion with a Twilight fan I have had. At first my opinion was invalid because I had seen the movie but hadn't read the book. Then I got really bored and read the book.

Now my opinion is invalid because if I didn't like the movie I shouldn't have read the book.

It all boils down to this: If you don't like it you don't count.

[Cracklord]

Fear not, we have a counter-argument.

Because Twilight is so terrible, anyone who likes it must either be unstable or not in full possession of their mental facilities. Therefore, if you like Twilight you are insane, and thus your argument is questionable.

[Grumman]

Fear not, we have a counter-argument.

Because Twilight is so terrible, anyone who likes it must either be unstable or not in full possession of their mental facilities. Therefore, if you like Twilight you are insane, and thus your argument is questionable.
I thought our counter-argument was to point over their shoulder, shout "Look! It's Edward!" then smack them with a folding chair while they're distracted?

[Starscream]

I thought our counter-argument was to point over their shoulder, shout "Look! It's Edward!" then smack them with a folding chair while they're distracted?

I like this one. I also like talking about hypothetical crossovers with Buffy, Blade and Simon Belmont. The Twilight fans usually start to hyperventilate and convulse by the time you get to throwing in Abraham Van Helsing...

[Cracklord]

You should put them all in a room with Pope Leo the Great. He'd skin them alive, and make himself a sparkly new glam-rock coat. He'd probably look as metrosexual as they do in it, but you can't have everything.

Buffy, they'd all get killed by Spike. After Drucilla stops playing with them as dolls, of course.

Blade. That'sl ike a Warhammer 40K and Hello Kitty crossover. That's basically the equivalent of saying 'What would happen if I dropped a puppy into a black hole?' That is a foregone conclusion.

Abraham Van Helsing would waste away in the Twilight world due to lack of challenge. I mean, he could wipe his arse with any of them, but what would be the point (their made of diamonds. All he needs is a rubber mallet and some fairly formidable whack-a-mole skills)?

But what would be best, is a Hellsing crossover.
Twilight Haters, behold (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4882752/1/The_Great_Twilight_Spoof_Or_Edwards_worst_date)!

[The Dark Fiddler]

Fear not, we have a counter-argument.

Because Twilight is so terrible, anyone who likes it must either be unstable or not in full possession of their mental facilities. Therefore, if you like Twilight you are insane, and thus your argument is questionable.

I'd like to disagree here. I read the books, and although they sure as hell weren't great, I enjoyed reading them.*

Until Breaking Dawn, at least.

Now, the people that try to tell you it's one of the best series ever written, sure to become a classic, and surely the book/movie of the generation? Yeah, they should be in the asylum. Not the fun asylum where we write stories about characters that would never be in a relationship, the one where they put in you in a straight jacket.

*Granted, I may not be the best example of sanity and being in full possession of mental facilities.


That's basically the equivalent of saying 'What would happen if I dropped a puppy into a black hole?' That is a foregone conclusion.

Really? My science teacher told me nobody knows for sure what happens in a black hole. :smalltongue:

[Cracklord]

I'm sorry to do this to you comrade, but case in point.
This individual spends a significant portion of his time writing or simply appreciating imaginary hookups with other people's characters, and in fact started the whole thing on the forum(the fact I am the probably the most prolific writer on said forum, revived the thread twice and made the tables that helped make it so successful is beside the point. Yes, I'm a hypocrite). Is this the actions of a stable individual?


Really? My science teacher told me nobody knows for sure what happens in a black hole. :smalltongue:

A Black hole is an area with such a high gravitational pull that nothing can escape it, even light. The puppy would be horribly compressed into a single point. But your right. All we know for certain is it's fairly unlikely you'd survive, and it wouldn't be pretty.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Is this the actions of a stable individual?

Absolutely not. :smallbiggrin:

[CoffeeIncluded]

The people who read the Twilight series can basically be broken down into three categories:

1. The people who think the book SUCKS, there was wasted potential and that this idea could have been decent with an actually SEMI-TALENTED writer, and that Meyer should have her Author license revoked. And the Twitards are...*Insert angry rant here* I fall into this group.

2. The people who are aware that it is bad writing, but read it for the sheer entertainment factor, and because Edward and Jacob are hot. My friends fall into this group.

3. The Twitards, who are fully convinced that this is THE ULTIMATE, THE PINNACLE WORK OF MANKIND! And that the series and Meyer are PERFECT AND FLAWLESS IN EVERY WAY AND SHRINES SHOULD BE BUILT IN HER HONOR!!! *Gags* You know who these people are.

[zeratul]

The people who read the Twilight series can basically be broken down into three categories:

1. The people who think the book SUCKS, there was wasted potential and that this idea could have been decent with an actually SEMI-TALENTED writer, and that Meyer should have her Author license revoked. And the Twitards are...*Insert angry rant here* I fall into this group.

2. The people who are aware that it is bad writing, but read it for the sheer entertainment factor, and because Edward and Jacob are hot. My friends fall into this group.

3. The Twitards, who are fully convinced that this is THE ULTIMATE, THE PINNACLE WORK OF MANKIND! And that the series and Meyer are PERFECT AND FLAWLESS IN EVERY WAY AND SHRINES SHOULD BE BUILT IN HER HONOR!!! *Gags* You know who these people are.

There's also group four who think the general concept is as bad as the writing, and that even with good writing you'd still have a bad book.

[CoffeeIncluded]

That counts as Group 1.

[Cracklord]

What about sociopaths like me, who read it precisely because they enjoy reading about a abusive based psuedo-relationship, Edward's control thing and homoerotic undertones (Carlisle chose a seventeen year old boy as the first individual to be a vampire, and he always tenses up when topless Jacob is around), Bella's power thing and intrinsic psychopathy (and stupidity. Ever heard of an informed ability?), the stalker vibes of Edward watching her sleep, and the rest of this twisted little relationship that is based on hedonism and abuse, making the Joker and Harley look fairly normal in comparison?

[CoffeeIncluded]

...Do you live in the New York Tri-state area? I know the name of a good psychiatrist.

First I read it because my friends talked me into it. (I read all four in two days, so it wasn't that much of a waste of time; I'm a really fast reader.)

Now I use it as a "How NOT to write" guide.

[Cobra_Ikari]

...you know, now that I think about it, I'm surprised. Most things that have a girl caught between two smexy manthings who love her passionately, the fangirls hate the female character and want to kill her off so there can be boylove times. I don't know that I've ever heard any Twilight fan suggest this. Hmm...

[CoffeeIncluded]

No! STOP! Close the box! CLOSE THE BOX!!!

[Starscream]

Really? My science teacher told me nobody knows for sure what happens in a black hole. :smalltongue:

Nobody knows exactly what would happen to your remains. I can assure you that the gravitational forces would pulp you long before you crossed the event horizon and got into wonky-physics territory

To tie this back into the thread topic, I would like to kick Edward into a black hole, and his twit of a girlfriend with him.

[Green Bean]

The people who read the Twilight series can basically be broken down into three categories:

1. The people who think the book SUCKS, there was wasted potential and that this idea could have been decent with an actually SEMI-TALENTED writer, and that Meyer should have her Author license revoked. And the Twitards are...*Insert angry rant here* I fall into this group.

2. The people who are aware that it is bad writing, but read it for the sheer entertainment factor, and because Edward and Jacob are hot. My friends fall into this group.

3. The Twitards, who are fully convinced that this is THE ULTIMATE, THE PINNACLE WORK OF MANKIND! And that the series and Meyer are PERFECT AND FLAWLESS IN EVERY WAY AND SHRINES SHOULD BE BUILT IN HER HONOR!!! *Gags* You know who these people are.

What about the people who don't care about the book, but roll their eyes every time someone asserts it somehow harms the purity of the vampire myths?

[Cracklord]

To tie this back into the thread topic, I would like to kick Edward into a black hole, and his twit of a girlfriend with him.

I like my Pope Leo coat idea.

[warty goblin]

Nobody knows exactly what would happen to your remains. I can assure you that the gravitational forces would pulp you long before you crossed the event horizon and got into wonky-physics territory

To tie this back into the thread topic, I would like to kick Edward into a black hole, and his twit of a girlfriend with him.

Actually the gravity would less pulp you, and more rip you apart. Remember gravity varies as the inverse square of distance (mod some constants). Assuming you were falling head first, at some point I suspect that there would be so much more force pulling on your head than your feet that the stuff in between could no longer hold you together. You would, in the most literal way possible, fall apart*.


*The calculations to figure out at what point this occurs for a particular mass of black hole are fairly trivial, so long as you know the breaking point of human tissue under tension. I'd crunch the numbers, but that's one Google search I'd rather not do...

[Catch]

From sparkling drama-blobs to black hole theory in 1 page.

I love you guys.

[Starscream]

*The calculations to figure out at what point this occurs for a particular mass of black hole are fairly trivial, so long as you know the breaking point of human tissue under tension. I'd crunch the numbers, but that's one Google search I'd rather not do...

Yeah, that's a good way to end up on some sort of watch list.

[warty goblin]

From sparkling drama-blobs to black hole theory in 1 page.

I love you guys.

It gets better.

So assume you are in high orbit around a black hole. Further assume the absence of an acretion disk around the hole, so you can see what's going on.

For sake of argument, you have captive one Edward Cullin. Like any right thinking person in your situation, your purpose for braving the vasty darkness is to drop him into the singularity.

So that's what you do. Of course at the distance where you are orbiting there isn't that much of a gravity differential, so you less drop him and more fire him from a high velocity cannon, but sometimes to make an omlett you have to fire Mary Sues from artillery. It's how all the best chefs prepare them.

But I digress. Of course in space there's no intervening planet or cloud of water vapor so it's always daylight. This means Mr. Cullin is sparkling like Christmas lights wrapped around the Chernobyl reactor on a bad day. For the sake of argument, assume that his sparkles blink on and off with a regular period, like a strobe light of stupidity.

So as Mr. Cullin approaches the black hole, he starts to accelerate. Quite rapidly as a matter of fact. Indeed as he approaches the Event Horizen, his acceleration gets downright relativistic. The time dialation effects start to become observable. What does this mean?

It means that the period of his sparkling appears to slow down as he gets closer and closer to the Event Horizon. So whereas he may have formerly blinked multiple times a second, now he's pulsing once a second. Why?

As you all know, if you had a set of newborn twins, a large budget and limited ethics, and you fired twin A into space for a nice little round trip jaunt at a significant fraction of the speed of light, and raised Twin B on earth, Twin A would experience less time than Twin B. Well the same thing is happening here. Edward is falling (and accelerating) very fast, and thus is experiencing less time than you are. So for some speed or other if he sparkles for a second, you percieve it as him sparkling for two seconds. As he falls, his speed will approach that of light, so his sparkling will get slower, and slower, and slower, and from your perception, even though he is falling more rapidly than ever, it takes longer and longer for him to go any given distance.


Now contemplate what you have done. You have fixed in the heavens the intermittently glowing form of a Mary Sue, flickering ever more slowly in the darkness. Cool, huh?

[MCerberus]

Just hope the rabid fans don't use the same method (read: giant nonsensical plot device) seen in Andromeda to retrieve him.

[Lord Seth]

I think the following really needs to be quoted:
It's just a book, and not a very good one, get over it and move on.

[warty goblin]

Just hope the rabid fans don't use the same method (read: giant nonsensical plot device) seen in Andromeda to retrieve him.

Don't worry, he'll have fallen apart by then. And anyway, fangirls are helpless in hard vacuum. Why you say? Why because:

In space nobody can hear you squee.

[TheSummoner]

If I wanted the same feeling I could get from watching a movie based on a badly written book about an idiotic masochist girl with in an abusive relationship with a shiny emo several times her age, I would shatter a glass window, eat the glass, wait until it passes through my system and eat said glass again... Its faster that way.

[Kaelaroth]

Sure. I noticed the bad acting. I noticed the bad acting. I noticed the boring bits of padding. I noticed the poor hair extensions. I saw the corruption of a few actors I like doing roles that're pathetic. I saw the uselessness, and horrible product placement. I saw how soul-rendingly awful it ought to have been.

I also saw Taylor Lautner.
...
:smalleek:
:smallsmile:

[SaintRidley]

...you know, now that I think about it, I'm surprised. Most things that have a girl caught between two smexy manthings who love her passionately, the fangirls hate the female character and want to kill her off so there can be boylove times. I don't know that I've ever heard any Twilight fan suggest this. Hmm...
{Scrubbed}

Apologies, there.

[warty goblin]

{scrubbed}

Quite right. The obvious solution isn't murder, it's a foursome...or did I just describe half of Twilight Fan Fiction?

[Mr. Scaly]

I just saw the movie actually, just half an hour ago.

To sum up my feelings...I hate Edward and Bella. Every time they're together I want to vomit, beat them with a crab on a stick, or both. That aspect of the romance is bilge. Also there's a huge amount of fan service every few moments with someone walking around without a shirt on. And the romantic dialogue tends towards terrible.

However, the film does do some things right, particularly the secondary characters (I include Jacob in this.) Charlie in particular touched me with his performance and Jacob was a close second. Also I like their rendition of werewolves, and the Volturi showed that Meyer's vampires don't all suck. My favourite parts are all in the middle when the Bella/Jacob subplot is full swing though it's pretty boring in the beginning...lots of wangst from Bella and Edward.

So it's not a bad movie. Better than some others I've seen this year. I wouldn't pay to see it again, but I'd probably watch it if it showed up on the movie network.

[Setra]

Twilight, is the literary equivalent to the Backstreet Boys, or N Sync.

[Rainbownaga]

Not the best movie ever, but at least it wasn't 2012.

Actually I kinda liked it once i got into it.

[pita]

What about the people who don't care about the book, but roll their eyes every time someone asserts it somehow harms the purity of the vampire myths?
Agreed, but slightly. I'll tell you what I think, though.
I think that Twilight is qsuasi-erotic bad vampire fiction, much like the other popular vampire stories. I'm convinced that vampires can be well written. But Anne Rice, Charlaine Harris, and Stephenie Meyer have all pretty much made popular vampires what they are, and that is quasi-erotic bad fiction.
I'm waiting for somebody to write a new novel with a vampire who has all of the kindness and gentleness of Vlad Tepes and Elizabeth Bathory. That could be awesome. I'd love to read a vampire story in which the vampires are actually evil.
It's not that vampires today destroy the purity of the vampire myths. It's that vampires today suck, and vampires 100 years ago were awesome. In other words, They Changed It Now It Sucks.

[SaintRidley]

Cyanide and Happiness has voiced an opinion.

Agree? Disagree? (http://www.explosm.net/comics/1867/)

[Faulty]

Transcendental.

[Jamin]

Agreed, but slightly. I'll tell you what I think, though.
I think that Twilight is qsuasi-erotic bad vampire fiction, much like the other popular vampire stories. I'm convinced that vampires can be well written. But Anne Rice, Charlaine Harris, and Stephenie Meyer have all pretty much made popular vampires what they are, and that is quasi-erotic bad fiction.
I'm waiting for somebody to write a new novel with a vampire who has all of the kindness and gentleness of Vlad Tepes and Elizabeth Bathory. That could be awesome. I'd love to read a vampire story in which the vampires are actually evil.
It's not that vampires today destroy the purity of the vampire myths. It's that vampires today suck, and vampires 100 years ago were awesome. In other words, They Changed It Now It Sucks.

I bet 100 years ago everyone wanted a story where the vamps were good.

[Setra]

I bet 100 years ago everyone wanted a story where the vamps were good.
True or not, I doubt they wanted a story where vampires sparkled.

Bum Review of New Moon (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/bum-reviews/13853-ep032)

[Rainbownaga]

Personally I don't see what the problem with the sparkles is.

Okay, it's kinda lame, but it makes a change from all those "turn to dust" vampires that aren't any closer to the real thing.

Sure, the 'romance' is weird, creepy, and kinda lame, but not quite as bad a Peter Jackson films.

Heck, having Ed as an unsympathetic character is actually a good thing for the movie; you get to watch him suffer through the whole thing and enjoy it.

Oh, and big doggies are cool.

[zeratul]

Personally I don't see what the problem with the sparkles is.

Okay, it's kinda lame, but it makes a change from all those "turn to dust" vampires that aren't any closer to the real thing.

Sure, the 'romance' is weird, creepy, and kinda lame, but not quite as bad a Peter Jackson films.

Heck, having Ed as an unsympathetic character is actually a good thing for the movie; you get to watch him suffer through the whole thing and enjoy it.

Oh, and big doggies are cool.

There is no "real thing" vampires dont exist. The problems with the sparkling are that it coincides with taking something evil and threatening and finitely bad, and turns it into something sympathetic or misunderstood and stripping it of all it's evil so that it's more appealing to hormonal tween girls.

Citing the romance of a movie or book as being "not that bad" because it wasnt as bad as the romance in a peter jackson movie is like saying a video game movie "want that bad" because something worse had been made my Uwe Boll. A crappie movie may be slightly less crappy than another movie, but that does not make it non crappy.

[Rainbownaga]

Maybe it's because I'm neither a girl nor a teenager, but I didn't find the 'sparkles' to really be that attractive so much as just creepy and a little annoying. I saw them as a symbol of the distance between the vampires and the humans that they lived around.

Just like Bram Stoker's and the folklore vampires, they don't burst into flames when they get hit by daylight, but neither is it 'natural' for them. Sure, naive girls might find it pretty, but in the majority of cases they'd be eaten soon afterward, which I kinda like.

As I said before, the romance wasn't an enjoyable part of the movie, but it didn't make me feel as nauseated as some others, so it didn't bother me as much.

It was almost like watching a movie version of WoD with a handful of cool action scenes and demonstrations of Kool Paworz mixed in with some politics, evil people wanting to eat you, good people wanting to eat you, and a plot about the very human theme of people being stupid about their emotions.

Yeah, not the best movie ever, and I wouldn't read the book, but it wasn't bad.

[doliest]

You know, maybe I'm just not thinking straight, but when you take Bella as what she is, you get a manipulative shrew who really just uses everyone around her and proceeds to be thrown into pure rage/shock that her 'first love' could be happy without her, did anyone think 'Kitiara Uth Matar?'

[taltamir]

I'm not sure exactly when vampires stopped being horrific and became vehicles for adolescent angst and middle class whinging, but I believe Twilight to be the tip of the boil. And I believe Stepanie Meyer should be burned on a massive pile of her works.

I am perfectly justified in this conclusion, I have read it. I want those wasted hours of my life back, but I have read book one and two.

I believe it was the moment was when they started to produce their own GLITTER.

PS:
http://kitsune.rydia.net/comic/page.php?id=122
Read the next 2 pages as well, the real joke is on page:
http://kitsune.rydia.net/comic/page.php?id=123

[Mr. Scaly]

You know, maybe I'm just not thinking straight, but when you take Bella as what she is, you get a manipulative shrew who really just uses everyone around her and proceeds to be thrown into pure rage/shock that her 'first love' could be happy without her, did anyone think 'Kitiara Uth Matar?'

Oh GODS no...

Manipulative as Kit may be, she is the single most bad ass character on the bad guys' team. There's a reasons he outlasted all the other dragon highlords. This is the woman who had the nerve to challenge Lord frickin' Soth to single combat. And she even overcomes her feelings of Tanis and soldiers on to actually do something with her life to the point where all men fear her. Bella on the other hand was rendered an emotional train wreck by having Eddie tell her to get lost and spends months in a catatonic stupor, then more months nearly killing herself because the hallucinations make her see him. Though I'll grant that all men of my acquaintance fear her too. :smallamused:

[CoffeeIncluded]

{Scrubbed}

[Talya]

Buffy vs. Edward. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM)
Must see. Pure awesome.

[horngeek]

No, no, no. Here's what we do.

First, we grant all the main characters, and the author, immortality.

At this point, you all probably want to kill me. But I'm not done.

Next, you chain them all into tanks. If they were mortal, you would then insert the following:

an IV
a cathameter for waste disposal
a breath mask

but I'm not sure whether you need that this time... meh. Do it anyway.

Then, you fill the tanks with formaldehyde, and wield them shut. Then set them up somewhere, and leave them. Forever.

This Fate Worse Than Death was brought to you by Matthew Reilly, in his book Five Greatest Warriors. He didn't have the immortality bit, though.

[warty goblin]

{Scrubbed}

You know, when Mom told that I'd learn something new every day, I'm fairly sure this is not what she had in mind...

[TheSummoner]

{Scrubbed}

I for one welcome the oncoming apocalypse! Let our deaths be quick and may they come soon.

[Grumman]

This Fate Worse Than Death was brought to you by Matthew Reilly, in his book **** ******* ********. He didn't have the immortality bit, though.
Gee, thanks for the spoiler... stupid rules, I can't even insult you properly! :smallmad: