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Incompleat
2009-11-21, 06:30 PM
One of my players want to play a Deep Imaskari (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b&pf=true) - I originally wanted to keep the game core, but it makes sense for her backstory and it does not seem that much unbalancing (although that Spell Clutch ability is certainly useful, especially in a low-level campaign) , so I am thinking to allow it.

However, in the character sheet she addded the human bonuses (extra feat, skill points) too: is this legal? I believe it isn't - the Imaskari are human-descended, but the are not human, and I see nothing in the rules which state it.

Is this correct, or am I missing something?

I am actually about to going to bed, so I will check your advice and make a decision tomorrow - thanks for the help!

mostlyharmful
2009-11-21, 06:32 PM
Nope. They were human but it's very specific, they don't just get a few add ons to the basic human package, they're a totally new race. No bonus feat, no bonus skill points.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-11-21, 06:33 PM
However, in the character sheet she addded the human bonuses (extra feat, skill points) too: is this legal?

Nope; it's not a human subrace that adds or subtracts from the base human, it's an entirely separate race. It gets exactly the benefits noted in the text and nothing more.

Fax Celestis
2009-11-21, 06:37 PM
Nope; it's not a human subrace that adds or subtracts from the base human, it's an entirely separate race. It gets exactly the benefits noted in the text and nothing more.

Pretty much this.

Mark Hall
2009-11-21, 11:58 PM
Agree with the others. She's either a Deep Imaskari who uses the human stats ("This character is a Deep Imaskari. I'm just statting it as a human because the game is all-core."), or that separate race.

hamishspence
2009-11-22, 05:14 PM
Do Deep Imaskari get the Human Subtype for the purpose of feats only humans can take?

And should they, if it doesn't specify it? After all, they are basically a variant of human.

Zeta Kai
2009-11-22, 05:21 PM
Do Deep Imaskari get the Human Subtype for the purpose of feats only humans can take?

And should they, if it doesn't specify it? After all, they are basically a variant of human.

I'd allow that, as long as she isn't double-dipping. I'd be wary of your player after the "oversight" above, but there's little harm in allowing Human-feats. Just remember that they are explicitly Humans in Fluff Only.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-22, 05:28 PM
No, they don't have human subtype listed like illumians do.

Which is weird.

But I must say they are pretty good at low levels with spell clutch. Int bonus makes them great in general.
That Dex penalty makes them the Anti-Elf.

hamishspence
2009-11-22, 05:32 PM
If not having the human subtype, then they (IMO) should still count as "human descended"

thus allowing them to qualify for the Human Heritage feat in the sourcebook Races Of Destiny, which can open up other Humans-Only feats to them.

Incompleat
2009-11-22, 06:04 PM
I'd allow that, as long as she isn't double-dipping. I'd be wary of your player after the "oversight" above, but there's little harm in allowing Human-feats. Just remember that they are explicitly Humans in Fluff Only.

I'm actually rather sure that it was an honest oversight, in this case. As for the human-only feat issue, I had not even thought about that: I think I may require to buy "human heritage" - after all, I cannot get the "brachiation" feat, no matter how cool it would be :smallfrown:

Zeta Kai
2009-11-23, 12:25 AM
I'm actually rather sure that it was an honest oversight, in this case. As for the human-only feat issue, I had not even thought about that: I think I may require to buy "human heritage" - after all, I cannot get the "brachiation" feat, no matter how cool it would be :smallfrown:

Feats are literally worth more than gold. I dunno if I'd be as harsh as to make them spend a feat just qualify for Human-only feats. Those aren't game-breakers, so I doubt it'd be worth it.

Jack Mann
2009-11-23, 11:21 PM
The rules don't state that the Deep Imaskari have the human subtype, but it seems reasonable to assume. Racial traits don't typically specify subtype (notice that drow racial traits, for example, don't say that a drow has the elf subtype, and the bugbear's racial traits don't say it gets the goblinoid subtype; those are found only in their statblocks). Humanoids almost always have a subtype. There is no statblock that I've seen for Deep Imaskari (though if you know of one, please feel free to bring it to my attention). Given this, Deep Imaskari should either have the human subtype, or a unique subtype of their own. Human seems more likely to me. However, it's open to DM interpretation.