PDA

View Full Version : The Box



sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:19 AM
Can you get inside the box?

The Box in layers, moving inwards:
Prismatic Wall
Wall of Force
Magically-Treated Obdurium, 1 foot (Hardness 60, hit points 120/inch of thickness)
Dirt
Soft Gooey Center

Rules:
You come into being fully formed, with all your items and levels.
You have 2 rounds to open the box
You must abide by the ToS ruleset (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6885281&postcount=2)
You must deal 1 point of damage to the Soft Gooey Center for your attempt to be considered a success.
There are no gaps between layers of the box. None. Zero.

The Soft Gooey Center has:
AC of -10 and 0 hardness
no resistances or immunities
the undead type
10s in all stats
True Neutral
Deaf, Blind
13 HD


The box can also fly, and only does so to stop people from making it fall. The box is surrounded by the aforementioned layers on every side.

Based on successful challenges, The Box may be updated to defeat these techniques. A record will be kept to enshrine all who reach the Soft Gooey Center.

Those who enjoyed the Soft Gooey Center:

BobVosh took it down with MDJ followed up by some Disintegrates, and made me change the time limit.
Eldariel beats it without using MDJ, using teleport and any number of ways to turn incorporeal. This makes me think of a way to get an Anticipate Teleport-like effect. Was solved by Eldariel with Forbiddance (I forgot this was permanent, I thought it was days or something)
Many folks bandied about MDJ and disintegrate. Maybe followed up by a quickened Magic Missle, such as Pharoah's Fist suggests? Looking for a way to beat MDJ. Has been solved, but requires me to write it up in an elegant manner.
Pharoah's Fist pulled off an alarming amount of contingencies and Familiar help with his contribution. Have thought of a way to block it. Will implement soon.
Milskidasith used this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2BjJbKQkgc) in a ridiculous manner.
Signmaker merely walks through all the magic walls and breaks down all the non-magic ones.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:20 AM
Changelist:

T.G.Oskar reminds me to give the Soft Gooey Center an alignment.
Realized 5 rounds gave a pure commoner a better than even chance, so reduced to 2.

Eldariel
2009-11-22, 12:22 AM
What exactly are the functions of Obdurium?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:24 AM
Really really hard metal.

It's in the Stronghold Builder's Guide.

EDIT: 5 rounds will likely be a really really long time. The smart money is on two rounds being a reasonable amount of time for most entries.

EDIT2: Hardness 60, hit points 120/inch of thickness

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 12:26 AM
What exactly are the functions of Obdurium?
Sorc 12/Bard 1 (bard taken at end to max UMD)
I question this as well. Otherwise this:
Scroll of disjunction.
Disintegrate.
Disintegrate.
Disintegrate.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-22, 12:27 AM
Could you post the stats of 1' of it? Hardness, HP, any odd effects? Because I think I can pull this with a Barbarian 12/Sorc 1.

Actually, depending on lvl13 WBL, I might do it with a Sorc 1/Commoner 12.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:29 AM
Strongly reconsidering time limit.

You know what, 2 rounds.

Mando Knight
2009-11-22, 12:31 AM
Sorc 12/Bard 1 (bard taken at end to max UMD)
I question this as well. Otherwise this:
Scroll of disjunction.
Disintegrate.
Disintegrate.
Disintegrate.

This. Disjunction obliterates the wall spells, and Disintegrate eliminates all three objects one by one. Could even lower the required number of spell levels by firing a Ray of Frost or Acid Orb at the gooey center.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-22, 12:32 AM
The level 13 limit is still in effect, right?

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 12:33 AM
Can we have the stats on the metal then?
Barbarian 12/Bard 1
I'm going to go with disjunction scroll, then lion totem barbarian withe destructive rage etc.

Hmm. 1440 hps then. This won't work.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:33 AM
Level 13 is in effect.

Obdurium is the same as Adamantine, except Hardness 60 and hit points 120/inch of thickness

EDIT: Thinking of a cheap way to remove vulnerability to Disjunction.

Eldariel
2009-11-22, 12:36 AM
As I understand, given that you have nothing in place blocking interplanar travel, you could just use Astral Projection to enter inside under Ghostform and attack, no? Hell, even Greater Teleport + Ghostform would do.

Hell, doesn't even Dimension Door work? I mean, it uses the Astral Plane and doesn't require LoE or LoS. All you need to do is to state the distance. Scroll of Ghostform, Circlet of Rapid Casting, level 6 Dragonwrought Kobold Loredrake Sorcerer, claw/claw/bite


Also, umm, Disjunction > Quickened Disjunction, Disintegrate?

Mongoose87
2009-11-22, 12:36 AM
I say the name of that demon that grants you a Wish, and get him to put me in. Then pay the terrible, terrible consequences.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:38 AM
You'll note that there is no space between layers, and the Soft Gooey Center is a layer.

Eldariel
2009-11-22, 12:39 AM
You'll note that there is no space between layers, and the Soft Gooey Center is a layer.

Hence why being incorporeal.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:41 AM
How do you cast a spell at the Soft Gooey Center... Are you casting at the Soft Gooey Center from inside the Soft Gooey Center?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:45 AM
So, assume, if you will, that since the Soft Gooey Center has stats and a type, it is a creature. What are the rules for casting something at something while inside that something?

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 12:48 AM
So, assume, if you will, that since the Soft Gooey Center has stats and a type, it is a creature. What are the rules for casting something at something while inside that something?

Why would it matter? It gets normal AoOs etc, but so long as you can be in its square all is fine.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 12:51 AM
What worries me is the normal D&D logic. If you cast a fireball at me from inside me, I still get a reflex save to dodge?

Anyway, I'm sad that the box got defeated by incorporeal internal magic missles.

EDIT: So, it looks like sofawall gets to hunt through book tomorrow trying to find a way to beat MDJ that will fit within the parameters of The Box.

Assuming I can find one, folks may want to find some way of beating it that doesn't involve MDJ.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 12:54 AM
Plan A

Round 1: Scroll of Disjuncton.

Round 2: Standard action for Greater Blink. Move into the center. End turn.

When you end your turn in a solid object, you take damage and are shunted out. Logically, if you end your turn in a living creature, it too will take damage from you materializing in its internals...

That might not work technically.

Plan B

Round 1: Scroll of Disjunction. Contingency for Disintegrate triggers. The obstacle between the caster and the center is gone. Quickened Magic Missile.

Contingency Condition: Rude gesture.

To ensure disjunction works, I will two scrolls for myself and another two for my familiar. We both UMD them.

Plan C

This one involves a casting of Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm)?

Work in progress.

Plan D

Craft Contingent Spell allows for several contingent spells to be active, limited by one's HD. Set these spells down for contingency, and they are to activate in the right order to negate the Prismatic Wall when you make a rude gesture:

Cone of Cold, Gust of Wind, Disintegrate, Passwall, Magic Missile, Daylight, and Dispel Magic.

Have another contingency be to cast a second Disintegrate on the Wall of Force after the Dispel Magic, and another to be a second casting of Disintegrate on the metal after the first Disintegrate. One more to cast Disintegrate on the dirt after the third disintegrate. Have one last contingency be to Sonic Snap the center after the last disintegrate.

Yukitsu
2009-11-22, 12:54 AM
Cast flash frost dream on the soft gooey center?

Or more realistically, some sort of divination effect.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 12:57 AM
You mean, like Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm)?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 01:00 AM
Small change. The Soft Gooey Center is now Undead.

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 01:03 AM
Small change. The Soft Gooey Center is now Undead.

That explains why it is so gooey.

Btw why don't you enchant the metal with a dimensional lock?

Yukitsu
2009-11-22, 01:08 AM
You mean, like Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm)?

Nah, that does subduel. I don't know if that counts.


Small change. The Soft Gooey Center is now Undead.

OK, so now it's a flash frost nightmare cast by a nightmare spinner dread witch.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 01:08 AM
Cannot be made permanent.

Any and all solutions must be capable of functioning perfectly, forever, with no assistance from the Soft Gooey Center.

If you come up with a solution, to one of the kill methods before I do, by the way, that follows the above criteria, I'll give you credit for that as well. Maybe even a cookie.

@^^

Shardan
2009-11-22, 01:08 AM
Scroll of Disjunction
Phase. walk through the thing and leave behind something in the S.G.C. causing damage when the object rematerializes

Alternatively, use mage hand to drop a bag of holding into a portable hole just far enough away to let half the thing go kazot from the impending spatial rift.

Also alternatively Scroll of Wish the S.G.C. into a volcano/pit of acid/firing range/etc. while leaving the rest behind, or simply wish damage upon it and be done. One turn.

Ooohh.. almost forgot. Sphere of Anhilation trumps the walls, I believe. Move Sphere Forward...

I'm not very good on 3.5 but I think all of those still work.

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-22, 01:09 AM
Shardan: I doubt an artifact would fly; otherwise I'd suggest the Angelwing Razor.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 01:12 AM
Plan D

Craft Contingent Spell allows for several contingent spells to be active, limited by one's HD. Set these spells down for contingency, and they are to activate in the right order to negate the Prismatic Wall when you make a rude gesture:

Cone of Cold, Gust of Wind, Disintegrate, Passwall, Magic Missile, Daylight, and Dispel Magic.

Have another contingency be to cast a second Disintegrate on the Wall of Force after the Dispel Magic, and another to be a second casting of Disintegrate on the metal after the first Disintegrate. One more to cast Disintegrate on the dirt after the third disintegrate. Have one last contingency be to Sonic Snap the center after the last disintegrate.

Time taken: 1 free action for the rude gesture.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 01:12 AM
Scroll of Disjunction
Phase. walk through the thing and leave behind something in the S.G.C. causing damage when the object rematerializes

Alternatively, use mage hand to drop a bag of holding into a portable hole just far enough away to let half the thing go kazot from the impending spatial rift.

Also alternatively Scroll of Wish the S.G.C. into a volcano/pit of acid/firing range/etc. while leaving the rest behind, or simply wish damage upon it and be done. One turn.

Ooohh.. almost forgot. Sphere of Anhilation trumps the walls, I believe. Move Sphere Forward...

I'm not very good on 3.5 but I think all of those still work.

1. Been done before.
2. Doesn't effect the box, only the bag and hole. If you do it the other way, it doesn't effect objects anyway.
3. Outside parameters of wish.
4. Getting control of artifacts isn't allowed under the ToS rules, and I think a Sphere might lose to a PrisWall anyway. The jury is out, but the members iof it that I spoke to thought that the Wall would win.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-22, 01:14 AM
Why are people using Sonic Snap? If you want insulting damage, have your pet gecko charge it.

Wish actually does work. Transport one opponent, no matter what, if he fails a Will save, is one of the safe effects. And if the damage can be done by a metamagic'd lower-level spell, I'd call it RAI.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 01:14 AM
Plan D

Craft Contingent Spell allows for several contingent spells to be active, limited by one's HD. Set these spells down for contingency, and they are to activate in the right order to negate the Prismatic Wall when you make a rude gesture:

Cone of Cold, Gust of Wind, Disintegrate, Passwall, Magic Missile, Daylight, and Dispel Magic.

Have another contingency be to cast a second Disintegrate on the Wall of Force after the Dispel Magic, and another to be a second casting of Disintegrate on the metal after the first Disintegrate. One more to cast Disintegrate on the dirt after the third disintegrate. Have one last contingency be to Sonic Snap the center after the last disintegrate.

Time taken: 1 free action for the rude gesture.


Craft Contingent Spell has double XP costs, these cannot be reduced, and may produce only three contingent spells at a time. The conditions must be as or more exact than contingency normally requires, but no proofing assistance will be offered.

I used ToS rules for a reason. :P

Also, pretty damn sure that was meant to be "only three contingent spells active on a target at a time."

EDIT: Ok, so Wish MIGHT work. Cue me looking for SR and will saves high enough to stop any chance of success.

Level 13 S.G.C., multiclassing between will save classes?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-22, 01:16 AM
1. Been done before.
2. Doesn't effect the box, only the bag and hole. If you do it the other way, it doesn't effect objects anyway.
3. Outside parameters of wish.
4. Getting control of artifacts isn't allowed under the ToS rules, and I think a Sphere might lose to a PrisWall anyway. The jury is out, but the members iof it that I spoke to thought that the Wall would win.Wish actually does work. Transport one opponent, no matter what, if he fails a Will save, is one of the safe effects. And if the damage can be done by a metamagic'd lower-level spell, I'd call it RAI.

Eldariel
2009-11-22, 01:17 AM
Couldn't you just enhance the center with Forbiddance? That'd make approaching a bit harder. AMFs are the best solution to Disjunction, honestly. Unfortunately, they're a bit hard to make permanent.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 01:17 AM
I used ToS rules for a reason. :P

Also, pretty damn sure that was meant to be "only three contingent spells active on a target at a time."

There are ten contingent spells. This means I need to have 4 people around.

I choose myself, my familiar, and two pet hamsters.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 01:17 AM
Your hamsters have 3 HD?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 01:18 AM
Awakened Dire Hamsters.

Gralamin
2009-11-22, 01:21 AM
Cannot be made permanent.

Any and all solutions must be capable of functioning perfectly, forever, with no assistance from the Soft Gooey Center.

If you come up with a solution, to one of the kill methods before I do, by the way, that follows the above criteria, I'll give you credit for that as well. Maybe even a cookie.

@^^

Perhaps a variant Spell Turret that acts as a counterspeller instead? Contains Disjunction, Reaving Dispel, And two other spells, counterspells a disjunction effect on each turn.

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 01:29 AM
Awakened Dire Hamsters.

As cool as your pets are, neither of those two templates add HD.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 01:30 AM
Have it your way, Sofa.

Plan D-1

Round 1:

Free action: Rude Gesture

Craft Contingent spell is used to prepare Cone of Cold, Gust of Wind, and Disintegrate on the caster, and Passwall, Magic Missile, and Daylight on the familiar.
Sets off Dispel Magic which is triggered by the Contingency Spell.


Standard action:

Familiar: uses a Rod of Cancellation on the Wall of Force
Caster: Disintegrate on the Metal


Swift Action:

Caster: Quickened Disintegrate (Note, requires metamagic reducers)
Familiar: I'm sure we can put something here that will deal damage as a swift action. Wand of Sonic Snap with a Metamagic Wand Bracer? Wand of some swift action damage dealing spell? Perhaps a wand of Wings of Flurry, with a familiar UMDing the check and passing itself off as a dragonblood? Either way, it can be done!



What now, Sofa? What now?

Edit: Dammit...

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-22, 01:30 AM
As cool as your pets are, neither of those two templates add HD.Awaken adds 2 HD.

And Dire isn't a template.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 01:38 AM
Level 1 wizard, 1 round, not including prep-time done any time in the last ∞ days. Feat: Precocious Apprentice: summon mirror mephit.

Prior to the fight, cast summon mirror mephit. Have it make a simulacrum of an efreeti, loyal to you. Bring the spell effect that is the direct result of the spell you cast earlier with you (it's not a minion; it's a permanent magical effect).

Have it wish the undead creature out to 10 ft in front of you (note that this can be done from anywhere in the universe, it does get a Will save, but I'm guessing it's rather abysmal); this is one of wish's explicitly-stated functions, and transports the victim subject to you regardless of "local conditions". This includes spell effects that surround it. Delay your turn until after it has done so, then cast magic missile.

Done.

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 01:41 AM
Awaken adds 2 HD.

And Dire isn't a template.

I was pretty sure dire is a template. Oh well.

And I had never noticed that about awaken. Leave and learn.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 01:51 AM
Second attempt. Again, 1 round.

Psion 13 with maxed out Psicraft (ranks, Int, psicrystal, Skill Focus, etc). Burrowing Power to completely skip all of the barriers (doesn't even pass through them, so it bypasses the prismatic sphere completely) + energy ray.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-22, 01:58 AM
Second attempt. Again, 1 round.

Psion 13 with maxed out Psicraft (ranks, Int, psicrystal, Skill Focus, etc). Burrowing Power to completely skip all of the barriers (doesn't even pass through them, so it bypasses the prismatic sphere completely) + energy ray.That's thinking outside the box.

And yes, I've waited this entire thread for that opportunity.

Sliver
2009-11-22, 02:03 AM
Would carrying around a (really) small village in a bag of holding (with something to give it air.. or make it animated toy soldiers, w/e), taking the village out and casting locate city bomb work?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 02:06 AM
That's thinking outside the box.

And yes, I've waited this entire thread for that opportunity.

Why think outside the box? It is destiny to be here; in the box.
It feels... safe. Like this is how was meant to be, the the key to true happiness.

You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean.

mikeejimbo
2009-11-22, 02:13 AM
What's the HD of the SGC?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:21 AM
HD is 13, like your own.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:22 AM
Level 1 wizard, 1 round, not including prep-time done any time in the last ∞ days. Feat: Precocious Apprentice: summon mirror mephit.

Prior to the fight, cast summon mirror mephit. Have it make a simulacrum of an efreeti, loyal to you. Bring the spell effect that is the direct result of the spell you cast earlier with you (it's not a minion; it's a permanent magical effect).

Have it wish the undead creature out to 10 ft in front of you (note that this can be done from anywhere in the universe, it does get a Will save, but I'm guessing it's rather abysmal); this is one of wish's explicitly-stated functions, and transports the victim subject to you regardless of "local conditions". This includes spell effects that surround it. Delay your turn until after it has done so, then cast magic missile.

Done.

I think I addressed that strategy earlier. The will save will be anything but abysmal.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 02:28 AM
Simulacrum is banned under ToS rules.
You cannot order a creature to fail a save.
Called creatures cannot leave, know this, and do not like it.
Gate cannot summon.

Milskidasith
2009-11-22, 02:30 AM
So couldn't I just Mindrape myself into loving the gooey center, and then cast Love's Pain on myself? That's damage.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 02:31 AM
Attempt 3. Again, 1 round. Unbodied 8 psion 5, with a Psicrystal Affinity and Improved Psicrystal x1. The psicrystal has Martial Study (iron heart surge).

On the unbodied's turn, it has its psicrystal crawl up and touch the prismatic sphere. It activates iron heart surge as it is destroyed, thereby destroying the prismatic sphere. The unbodied takes a move action into the box, and makes an incorporeal touch attack to deal 1d6 points of damage to the center.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 02:32 AM
So couldn't I just Mindrape myself into loving the gooey center, and then cast Love's Pain on myself? That's damage.

A) I hate that spell.
B) No one had abused it, so it's intentionally unbanned.


Attempt 3. Unbodied 8 psion 5, with a Psicrystal Affinity and Improved Psicrystal x1. The psicrystal has Martial Study (iron heart surge).

Round 1: On the unbodied's turn, it has its psicrystal crawl up and touch the prismatic sphere. It activates iron heart surge as it is destroyed, thereby destroying the prismatic sphere. The unbodied takes a move action into the box, and makes an incorporeal touch attack to deal 1d6 points of damage to the center.

IHS is also banned in ToS. Perhaps reading the ban list?


Also, DC on burrowing through Obdurium is 70 minimum. You would need to make two DC 30 checks, followed by a DC 70 check.

Milskidasith
2009-11-22, 02:33 AM
A) I hate that spell.
B) No one had abused it, so it's intentionally unbanned.



IHS is also banned in ToS. Perhaps reading the ban list?

If you hate it and any use is going to be abuse, then why not just ban it? (Is the hated spell Love's Pain or Mindrape, by the way? Or both?)

Anyway, woo, I win! I feel so special.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 02:34 AM
Simulacrum is banned under ToS rules.
You cannot order a creature to fail a save.
Called creatures cannot leave, know this, and do not like it.
Gate cannot summon.Wasn't mentioned in the quoted post.

I call shenanigans. :smalltongue: I somehow completely managed to miss all of that...

Why all the bans? Isn't the point to abuse the system as-is to get in? Adding a bunch of house-rules makes this a bit pointless, don't you think?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:34 AM
Ok, so I had thought that the rule about popping into existence with all levels and gear was explicit enough. I guess not.

You appear at level 13. You never existed earlier than that. You have no backstory. You literally did not exist up until this point. You have from Time 0 of you existence until Time 12(seconds) of your existence to destroy it.

Savvy?

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 02:34 AM
If you hate it and any use is going to be abuse, then why not just ban it? (Is the hated spell Love's Pain or Mindrape, by the way? Or both?)

Anyway, woo, I win! I feel so special.

Because policy for ToS is not to ban things until they are abused in actual simulated play conditions. It turns out that abusing love's pain is a huge hassle most of the time.


Wasn't mentioned in the quoted post.

I call shenanigans. :smalltongue:

Yes it is, I should know. I wrote it about three months ago. You are eaten by hounds, as unbodied has an LA of +4, considerably over the allowed +1.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:36 AM
Attempt 3. Again, 1 round. Unbodied 8 psion 5, with a Psicrystal Affinity and Improved Psicrystal x1. The psicrystal has Martial Study (iron heart surge).

On the unbodied's turn, it has its psicrystal crawl up and touch the prismatic sphere. It activates iron heart surge as it is destroyed, thereby destroying the prismatic sphere. The unbodied takes a move action into the box, and makes an incorporeal touch attack to deal 1d6 points of damage to the center.

There is also a wall of force, and it a bunch of walls, not a sphere. It is a box, not a ball.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 02:37 AM
There is also a wall of force, and it a bunch of walls, not a sphere. It is a box, not a ball.Ack. Wall of force. I didn't even see that.

I need sleep.

Milskidasith
2009-11-22, 02:38 AM
Because policy for ToS is not to ban things until they are abused in actual simulated play conditions. It turns out that abusing love's pain is a huge hassle most of the time..

Ah. Well yeah, Love's Pain isn't really that abusable because, well, it's not very good at dealing damage. It's only useful because you can use it without ever meeting the creature in question, which is outside the ToS parameters.

Sliver
2009-11-22, 02:39 AM
So.. Locate city bomb won't work?:smallbiggrin:

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 02:39 AM
Why all the bans? Isn't the point to abuse the system as-is to get in? Adding a bunch of house-rules makes this a bit pointless, don't you think?

No, that was never ever the point. The point was to use the ToS rule-set, which is mentioned in the first post.


Ah. Well yeah, Love's Pain isn't really that abusable because, well, it's not very good at dealing damage. It's only useful because you can use it without ever meeting the creature in question, which is outside the ToS parameters.

But hilarious. It's so hard to ban a spell that silly and funny.


So.. Locate city bomb won't work?:smallbiggrin:

The prismatic sphere just slurps it up, and it's banned by ToS Rules. Hounds.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:40 AM
Why all the bans? Isn't the point to abuse the system as-is to get in? Adding a bunch of house-rules makes this a bit pointless, don't you think?

Actually, no. Two reasons I used the ToS ruleset for this.

1) I like it far more than Free-RAW, and I made the thread, so nyah, and
2) The box was always designed in a ToS environment. If it wasn't ToS, you wouldn't be getting in. End of story.

BlankStare
2009-11-22, 02:43 AM
Character is level 1 soft gooey center wizard. I cast acid splash straight up.

I don't think that counts. Though for the purpose of the game what is the effective HD of the gooey center, just 1?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:44 AM
If anyone is interested in seeing how the performs in an actual battle environment, write up a quick ToS character and ask for The Cube.

The box just sits there and takes it. The Cube kills you. This is also the reason I figured two rounds might be good. I think I can afford to kill you in two rounds when you can't fight back (I am implementing stronger force fields and more potent laz0rs as we speak.)

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:45 AM
Character is level 1 soft gooey center wizard. I cast acid splash straight up.

I don't think that counts. Though for the purpose of the game what is the effective HD of the gooey center, just 1?

Mentioned in thread, now in OP.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 02:50 AM
So Love's Pain after Mindraping myself to love the gooey center (I know it exists, right?) works, correct? All I need is a high enough UMD check, and with a +30 item, that's not hard even if it isn't a class skill.

And you'd need to know something about the Gooey Center beyond "it's there," which is almost certainly impossible.

You would need to set this up in two rounds.

Milskidasith
2009-11-22, 02:51 AM
And you'd need to know something about the Gooey Center beyond "it's there," which is almost certainly impossible.

You would need to set this up in two rounds.

I just mindrape myself to know of nothing besides the gooey center, which I want to murder. Being the only thing I know, I love it the most. If that isn't enough, I suppose I could mindrape myself into believing that the Gooey Center had refused my proposal for marriage and now I want to kill it while still loving it because I'm an abusive boyfriend, just to get the whole "I love it but still want to kill it" thing down.

Also, I deleted my post.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 02:56 AM
I just mindrape myself to know of nothing besides the gooey center, which I want to murder. Being the only thing I know, I love it the most. If that isn't enough, I suppose I could mindrape myself into believing that the Gooey Center had refused my proposal for marriage and now I want to kill it while still loving it because I'm an abusive boyfriend, just to get the whole "I love it but still want to kill it" thing down.

Also, I deleted my post.

Hahahaha that is amazing. You are made of win. I'm not sure there's a really good way to stop incoming fire from L's_P

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 02:58 AM
I just mindrape myself to know of nothing besides the gooey center, which I want to murder. Being the only thing I know, I love it the most. If that isn't enough, I suppose I could mindrape myself into believing that the Gooey Center had refused my proposal for marriage and now I want to kill it while still loving it because I'm an abusive boyfriend, just to get the whole "I love it but still want to kill it" thing down.

Also, I deleted my post.

We always hurt the people we love :D

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:59 AM
I just mindrape myself to know of nothing besides the gooey center, which I want to murder. Being the only thing I know, I love it the most. If that isn't enough, I suppose I could mindrape myself into believing that the Gooey Center had refused my proposal for marriage and now I want to kill it while still loving it because I'm an abusive boyfriend, just to get the whole "I love it but still want to kill it" thing down.

Also, I deleted my post.

You may want to check the OP.

Milskidasith
2009-11-22, 02:59 AM
Hahahaha that is amazing. You are made of win. I'm not sure there's a really good way to stop incoming fire from L's_P

Thank you, I'll be here all week.


You may want to check the OP.

Love's pain is mind affecting... against the target, which is me. It just happens to hit the gooey center. Just because it's undead goo doesn't mean it gets to get away with breaking up with me, dammit! I'm going to kill it to show it how much I love it!

BlankStare
2009-11-22, 03:02 AM
So how much does the box weigh altogether?

Temet Nosce
2009-11-22, 03:04 AM
Hm, unsure if this works (does an aura centered on me count as a spell for the purposes of passing through the wall?) but Cleric 7 using Positive Energy Aura.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 03:04 AM
Thank you, I'll be here all week.



Love's pain is mind affecting... against the target, which is me. It just happens to hit the gooey center. Just because it's undead goo doesn't mean it gets to get away with breaking up with me, dammit! I'm going to kill it to show it how much I love it!

Specifically, section 4.

EDIT: It weighs a metric ****ton, and I have so many ways that block LoE in there, it aint getting through.

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 03:06 AM
So how much does the box weigh altogether?

Ooo, Brilliant! Make a hulking hurler with a great will save and some way (Umd + skill item) to disjunction. Throw the box somewhere.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 03:10 AM
Ooo, Brilliant! Make a hulking hurler with a great will save and some way (Umd + skill item) to disjunction. Throw the box somewhere.

The box can fly. It just chooses not to, for then it may be tempted to become The Cube.

BlankStare
2009-11-22, 03:11 AM
Specifically, section 4.

EDIT: It weighs a metric ****ton, and I have so many ways that block LoE in there, it aint getting through.

LoE? I don't know that one.

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 03:15 AM
LoE? I don't know that one.

Line of effect

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 03:15 AM
To expand on that answer:
Line of Effect and line of sight are actually different pretty often in D&D. Optimization is a very strange and intellectually rewarding pursuit. I often use it to warm up before systems programming.

Milskidasith
2009-11-22, 03:19 AM
To expand on that answer:
Line of Effect and line of sight are actually different pretty often in D&D. Optimization is a very strange and intellectually rewarding pursuit. I often use it to warm up before systems programming.

I do it because it's fun to make the most powerful thing possible in any concept. However, like when you get the last unlockable on a video game, playing the actual optimized character sometimes falls flat because there is nothing else to do. I've already got the combos down in my head, so actually killing something is just basic math for the most part. Sometimes, however, it's still amazingly fun to play, especially if there are a wide variety of other optimized foes to face (Test of Spite, woo!)

Speaking of which, I need to Test of Spite more.

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-22, 03:24 AM
I say a wizard 13 would cast anitmagic field, dinintergste, have a contingenced disintegrate go off with the condition (on the condition that he casts disintegrate), then cast quickened ray of frost. You are, of course, an abjurer, and have metamagicked the AMF with sculpt spell to exclude you. Peice of cake, done without a scroll of disjuction.

BlankStare
2009-11-22, 03:27 AM
Can you cast while being the center focal point for an antimagic field?

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 03:27 AM
Speaking of which, I need to Test of Spite more.

I rather miss your take on things. You're always welcome in our halls.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 03:29 AM
Can you cast while being the center focal point for an antimagic field?

It....... AMF is really poorly written. Like, really poorly. Basically, no, but if you tried to ESA it, suddenly you can again, but you can also be the target of spells legally again. ESA is weird. AMF is weirder. Sculpt is a little less weird.

AMF does nothing to prismatic sphere.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 03:39 AM
Love's pain is mind affecting... against the target, which is me. It just happens to hit the gooey center. Just because it's undead goo doesn't mean it gets to get away with breaking up with me, dammit! I'm going to kill it to show it how much I love it!

Bestow Curse can also be used to hurt loved ones, as per BoVD.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 03:40 AM
Now, I'm going to work on something so out of left field that Sofa has absolutely no defense against it.

I'm going to find a way of making the S.G.C. break one of the ToS rules so that hounds will eat it.

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-22, 03:48 AM
1st round: use a scroll of quickened MDJ+cast disintegrate.
2nd round: disintegrate+quickened ray of frost.

Nothing outside of core now, and I cannot see anything that says you can't make metamagicked scrolls.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 03:53 AM
That solution is already used.

Sliver
2009-11-22, 03:55 AM
1st round: use a scroll of quickened MDJ+cast disintegrate.
2nd round: disintegrate+quickened ray of frost.

Nothing outside of core now, and I cannot see anything that says you can't make metamagicked scrolls.

It's not interesting if you are just going to say what half the posts so far said already...

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 04:16 AM
Also, I believe V2 drops soon, and defeats MDJ.

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-22, 04:18 AM
That solution is already used.


************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 04:26 AM
That's the spirit!

Superglucose
2009-11-22, 05:42 AM
Level 13 wizard who took the feat that lets you get a skill as class. UMD (I think it's Able Learner?)

First round: I cast a "quickened" daylight, followed by using a scroll to cast "Wish" for a Rakasha (wish to cast planar ally, a 6th level spell off my list). I succeed on a roll of 4 or better. My Rakasha then casts "Magic Missle" (since it was summoned in a standard action, and it is allowed to act on the turn it enters combat). My familiar follows this with a "locate object" off his wand with a DC of 20 and a check of +16, meaning he succeeds on a 4 or better. He then caws out its location in Hawk. I use the move action to pass a scroll of Disintigrate to my Rakashasa, who has a move action left to accept the scroll.

Wealth by Level has no maximum value I can spend an item on (via the DMG nor by ToS rules that I can find) so I own a rod of Quicken. Move action to bring it out, Quickened Disintigrate followed by Disintigrate which removes the layers of the wall and the dirt. My Rakasha then casts the scroll and needs to pass on a 2 or better to succeed. This disintigrate removes the final layer, and my familiar attacks the soft gooey center for game.

Chance of success: 54.7% (familiar might roll a 1 on his attack roll)
Cost: Pretty much all of my Wealth by Level
Completing the challenge in-core: Priceless

Temet Nosce
2009-11-22, 05:53 AM
Scroll of Unbinding
Scroll of Sphere of Destruction

Not as amusing as my attempts to use positive energy, but everything needed LoE.

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 05:56 AM
Level 13 wizard who took the feat that lets you get a skill as class. UMD (I think it's Able Learner?)

First round: I cast a "quickened" daylight, followed by using a scroll to cast "Wish" for a Rakasha (wish to cast planar ally, a 6th level spell off my list). I succeed on a roll of 4 or better. My Rakasha then casts "Magic Missle" (since it was summoned in a standard action, and it is allowed to act on the turn it enters combat). My familiar follows this with a "locate object" off his wand with a DC of 20 and a check of +16, meaning he succeeds on a 4 or better. He then caws out its location in Hawk. I use the move action to pass a scroll of Disintigrate to my Rakashasa, who has a move action left to accept the scroll.

Wealth by Level has no maximum value I can spend an item on (via the DMG nor by ToS rules that I can find) so I own a rod of Quicken. Move action to bring it out, Quickened Disintigrate followed by Disintigrate which removes the layers of the wall and the dirt. My Rakasha then casts the scroll and needs to pass on a 2 or better to succeed. This disintigrate removes the final layer, and my familiar attacks the soft gooey center for game.

Chance of success: 54.7% (familiar might roll a 1 on his attack roll)
Cost: Pretty much all of my Wealth by Level
Completing the challenge in-core: Priceless

Why not just wish for a fireball centered on the goo?

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-22, 06:42 AM
Limited wish that a fireball spell aimed at the centre and originating at the centre would be cast.

Acanous
2009-11-22, 07:09 AM
Miracle that the next spell you cast does not need LoE to hit, Burning Hands >.>

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 07:15 AM
Miracle that the next spell you cast does not need LoE to hit, Burning Hands >.>

Prismatic wall still stops that one as it stops all spells.

Temet Nosce
2009-11-22, 07:21 AM
Figured out another way around this I believe, Blood Magus using Blood Walk.

Acanous
2009-11-22, 07:25 AM
Would a Turn attempt get through the wall? I've never tried.

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 07:29 AM
Would a Turn attempt get through the wall? I've never tried.

Nope, LoE


Figured out another way around this I believe, Blood Magus using Blood Walk.

Undead. Doesn't work on em, right?

Temet Nosce
2009-11-22, 07:31 AM
Undead. Doesn't work on em, right?

Point Bob, I didn't even think about that. Eh, owell only posted it because it jumped into my head while doing something else.

Acanous
2009-11-22, 07:34 AM
So Miracle-> Turn Undead. Then the Turn check doesn't require LoE, yes?

BobVosh
2009-11-22, 07:41 AM
So Miracle-> Turn Undead. Then the Turn check doesn't require LoE, yes?

If that is what you miracled for.

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-22, 08:01 AM
I kill the prismatic sphere using a scroll of wish. I then cast animate dead on the sphere and use my zombie prismatic sphere to kill the centre.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 01:19 PM
I'm going to use a slight variation on my previous attempt. However, it will take 2 rounds.

Unbodied psion 5. It draws a rod of cancellation while moving toward the box, and touches the prismatic wall box, taking it down (alternately, its psicrystal does so). The unbodied then dimension doors past the wall of force, into the area with the obdurium and dirt, unfortunately ending its turn. It makes an incorporeal touch attack (1d6 damage) against the center. Done.

Next try: Same unbodied as before. Move action to simply go around the prismatic wall and wall of force, then move in and attack. Note that you never said the prismatic wall/wall of force was cubular; just that they were there, so I go around them.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 01:58 PM
Unbodied is still illegal under ToS rules.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 01:59 PM
Wishes or miracles for effects not explicitly spelled out are referred to as dangerous. In this case? That means you get eaten by the hounds.

Why? Because (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/9/23/).

Also, it's not clear that dimension door cares if you are incorporeal. I think you'd need to be properly ethereal and I'm not even sure about that:


If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:07 PM
Now, I'm going to work on something so out of left field that Sofa has absolutely no defense against it.

I'm going to find a way of making the S.G.C. break one of the ToS rules so that hounds will eat it.

I break one rule that I know of.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 02:09 PM
There are walls on every side of the box. Otherwise it would just be a wall.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 02:11 PM
Round 1:

Cast Disintegrate under the walls. This gets rid of the floor and allows us easy access to the soft underside of the S.G.C.

Move action to jump in the pit.

Swift action to Magic Missile.

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-22, 02:29 PM
Round 1:

Cast Disintegrate under the walls. This gets rid of the floor and allows us easy access to the soft underside of the S.G.C.

Move action to jump in the pit.

Swift action to Magic Missile.We're all thinking about this too hard; Pharaoh's actually a genius and he doesn't even know it!

Disintegrate the floor beneath the box, gravity takes effect, and the squishy center takes a d6 of falling damage.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 02:38 PM
There are prismatic walls down there.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 02:40 PM
There are walls on every side of the box. Otherwise it would just be a wall.Not according to the original post, it's not.

That just says there's a single prismatic wall and a single wall of force. Neither is shapable, meaning you can go around them. If they're connected to other mundane walls, incorporeal creatures can still go around them.

If you're not more specific about the exact challenge, all is fair game.


Unbodied is still illegal under ToS rules.Then I officially change my unbodied to a human psion/psion uncarnate. The psicrystal uses the rod. Before dimension dooring in, he uses that round's standard action to use his shed body ability, then move action dimension doors.

Still works.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 02:43 PM
There are prismatic walls down there.

Then it's not a wall...


Prismatic wall creates a vertical, opaque wall

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-22, 02:54 PM
Then it's not a wall...Then I think that's a win for me, yes?

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 03:02 PM
I'll let Pat explain this one. :smallfurious:

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-22, 03:05 PM
I'll let Pat explain this one. :smallfurious:Question mark? Admittedly, if your dude has enough ranks in Tumble, he may not take the damage, but I didn't see anything about skill ranks.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 03:06 PM
Question mark? Admittedly, if your dude has enough ranks in Tumble, he may not take the damage, but I didn't see anything about skill ranks.It's Pat!

Obligatory text

DaedalusMkV
2009-11-22, 03:20 PM
Wizard 8/ Argent Savant 5
I'll need: A Rod of Cancellation, all available CL-boosters, Arcane Mastery. Assuming the Wall of Force is at most CL13.

Action 1: Use the Rod of Cancellation to remove the Prismatic Wall.
Action 2: Unbind the Wall of Force. I can get my CL to 15 between items and Feats. I take 10, and so autosucceed. Everything within 10 feet of the wall, including the SGC takes 5d6 Force Damage.

How to stop it: Higher CL screws this plan over. Unfortunately.


<lolargentsavant>

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 03:22 PM
I can get your CL to 20. How are you dealing with the obdurium in your remaining time?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 03:27 PM
Remember, Daedelus, you have a familiar to operate the Rod of Cancellation for you.

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-22, 03:34 PM
Hey, Pharoah, what's the name of that spell that grounds fliers and makes them take falling damage? :smallamused:

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-22, 03:34 PM
Now, obviously we are dealing with a prismatic sphere, or else the SGC would fall out. So we disjunction this prismatic sphere, then we can disintegrate the metal thingy, and quickened MM the centre.

To make this plan so it has almost no chance of failure, we are all going to have to go at it together. Anyone up for it?

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 03:36 PM
http://www.evocacion.com/magic-the-gathering/alpha/img/earthbind.jpg
I think that's it? It may be Downdraft. :smallwink:

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 03:37 PM
Now, obviously we are dealing with a prismatic sphere



You can pass into and out of the prismatic sphere and remain near it without harm. However, when you’re inside it, the sphere blocks any attempt to project something through the sphere (including spells). Other creatures that attempt to attack you or pass through suffer the effects of each color, one at a time.

Typically, only the upper hemisphere of the globe will exist, since you are at the center of the sphere, so the lower half is usually excluded by the floor surface you are standing on.

We are not dealing with a Prismatic Sphere.

Logalmier
2009-11-22, 03:40 PM
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Alpha/Earthbind.jpg
I think that's it? It may be Downdraft. :smallwink:

Actually I think it was Wingbind... Evocation, and not a very good one.

EDIT: Wuh?:smalleek: My eloquence never leaves me.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 03:41 PM
So, is it being ruled that there are horizontal prismatic walls, and that there are walls on all 6 sides of the box?

If so, I'm going to take a try with a level 0 human baby.

DaedalusMkV
2009-11-22, 03:42 PM
I can get your CL to 20. How are you dealing with the obdurium in your remaining time?
Do I need to? AFAIK the damage effect does not require direct LOE. If it does... I'll need my Familiar.
Round 1: Familiar touches Rod of Cancellation to Prismatic Wall. Unbind Wall of Force.
Round 2: Eh, I suck at this. How much does the Obdurum Wall weigh? If less than 4400 pounds, CLx (x=weight/10) Scroll of Shatter followed by Quickened Magic Missile. Otherwise, (scroll of) Disintegrate followed by Quickened Magic missile. Much less elegant than before, though.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 04:06 PM
Ah, cool, a dynamic anti-hotlinking script. Snazzy!

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 04:08 PM
So, is it being ruled that there are horizontal prismatic walls, and that there are walls on all 6 sides of the box?

If so, I'm going to take a try with a level 0 human baby.

The instructions, I thought, were pretty clear. There are ways to get prismatic walls that aren't vertical, and he is using them. Remember, the box can _move_ but opts not to, so it's pretty obvious these aren't normal prismatic walls in the first place.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 04:22 PM
The instructions, I thought, were pretty clear. There are ways to get prismatic walls that aren't vertical, and he is using them. Remember, the box can _move_ but opts not to, so it's pretty obvious these aren't normal prismatic walls in the first place.All I know is what is in the first post, and there's nothing there that says anything of the sort.

Be detailed, be specific, or we can use that against you.

So, level 0 human baby. He appears, naked and bawling, near to the box, and he waits 1 round while the horizontal prismatic wall underneath of the box consumes the obdurium, the dirt, and the gooey center due to gravity.

After all, wall of force has to be vertical, too. We were just talking about the prismatic wall, after all. :smallcool:

See? We can and will use this against you.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 04:25 PM
Actually, what you know is that we've told you specifically what the layers of the box are. They're prismatic, force, obdurium, dirt. That's very specific. These aren't layers in one direct, layers that only work vertically, layers that go away when you want them to because that's how the SRD version works and you've failed to consider that all of 3.x is open and something might be in use here that you don't know about.

Clearly, I am the one in the wrong here. Woe is me. In any case, this should probably be where I bow out.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 04:28 PM
Actually, what you know is that we've told you specifically what the layers of the box are. They're prismatic, force, obdurium, dirt. That's very specific. These aren't layers in one direct, layers that only work vertically, layers that go away when you want them to because that's how the SRD version works and you've failed to consider that all of 3.x is open and something might be in use here that you don't know about.

Clearly, I am the one in the wrong here. Woe is me. In any case, this should probably be where I bow out.Feel free.

But nothing has been said regarding which layers, though. After all, if they were prismatic walls and walls of force, those are vertical only, and cannot be moved. Thus, only the vertical walls of the box, rather than the horizontal ones. Plus, each has to be rather long and unbroken, or they don't work.

Had you said prismatic sphere and forcecage, or prismatic sphere and immobile, floating riverine, or if the environment was no grav, then maybe.

Be specific, or prepare to be whacked with semantics.

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 04:29 PM
Can you get inside the box?

The Box in layers, moving inwards:
Prismatic Wall
Wall of Force
Magically-Treated Obdurium, 1 foot (Hardness 60, hit points 120/inch of thickness)
Dirt
Soft Gooey Center


........................... Layers. Moving inward. Not layers moving inward from one side.

Myrmex
2009-11-22, 04:43 PM
Feel free.

But nothing has been said regarding which layers, though. After all, if they were prismatic walls and walls of force, those are vertical only, and cannot be moved. Thus, only the vertical walls of the box, rather than the horizontal ones. Plus, each has to be rather long and unbroken, or they don't work.

Had you said prismatic sphere and forcecage, or prismatic sphere and immobile, floating riverine, or if the environment was no grav, then maybe.

Be specific, or prepare to be whacked with semantics.

Could you use Reverse Gravity to change the spell's reference frame and get horizontal walls?

Doc Roc
2009-11-22, 04:46 PM
Could you use Reverse Gravity to change the spell's reference frame and get horizontal walls?

Yes. Or use dimensional borders, planar breaches, demiplanes...... This is any-of-many reasons I'm insisting it doesn't matter.

Vertical is subjective. The enemy's construction site is down.


Houserules are only fair if we know about them in the first place. Stealthing them in just to annoy people makes things no fun.

As far as him vs the boards, that's the entire point of the exercise.

Wellllll, considering there have been no changes to the ToS rules set in two weeks, the only way I could have stealthed something in would be with a time machine. And while I am a sufficiently annoying pedant to actually use a time machine like that, I have not done so, though I clearly have no proof.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 06:58 PM
Feel free.

But nothing has been said regarding which layers, though. After all, if they were prismatic walls and walls of force, those are vertical only, and cannot be moved. Thus, only the vertical walls of the box, rather than the horizontal ones. Plus, each has to be rather long and unbroken, or they don't work.

Had you said prismatic sphere and forcecage, or prismatic sphere and immobile, floating riverine, or if the environment was no grav, then maybe.

Be specific, or prepare to be whacked with semantics.

They are walls of force and prismatic screens, which are walls that act as Prismatic Walls. They are on all 6 sides. Some are horizontal. The Box is 10*10, not "rather long." It can fly, burrow, move in any way you like, including plane shift.

None of the above is breaking any rules. All of it is allowed under D&D 3.5.

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-22, 07:02 PM
It can fly, burrow, move in any way you like, including plane shift.

None of the above is breaking any rules. All of it is allowed under D&D 3.5.True, but none of this was mentioned in the OP.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 07:24 PM
True, but none of this was mentioned in the OP.

The box does not move. The box sits there and takes it. As soon as it moves, it becomes The Cube.

Also, does it matter if I follow 3.5 for the purposes of a thought experiment, as long as I clearly say what I am doing? The fact that I am within the rule is simply a bonus.

And despite all that, is the fact that it can move (even though it chooses not to) or the fact that it is allowed within 3.5 rules really necessary to destroy it?

Prime32
2009-11-22, 07:59 PM
Open a gate to the Positive Energy Plane, then use telekinesis to throw the box through.

Use incantatrix abilities to apply a metamagic to the prismatic wall which will change its shape to pass through the gooey centre.

A ring of x-ray vision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#xRayVision) might be able to grant Line of Sight.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:02 PM
Open a gate to the Positive Energy Plane, then use telekinesis to throw the box through.

Probably too heavy, but I'm not sure.


Use incantatrix abilities to apply a metamagic to the prismatic wall which will change its shape to pass through the gooey centre.

I do believe Incantatrix is banned.


A ring of x-ray vision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#xRayVision) might be able to grant Line of Sight.

Have you see what this is made of? Obdurium counts as "Thicker substances".

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:05 PM
Sofa, stop finding ways to make The Box tougher. ><

It was ridiculous enough when I had to go at it, and that was four months ago.

Anyway, my contribution: The NotACaster. I'll present the counters step by step.

Prismatic Wall: 7 veil set.
Wall of Force: Forceward spell, SpC. Contingency to whatever the hell you want.
Obdurium Wall: Strength Devotion removes hardness, leaving a squishy 1440* hp to smash through with your standard charger build.
Soft Gooey Center:...Yeah.

Total Cost: 65800 gp.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:11 PM
Sofa, stop finding ways to make The Box tougher. ><

It was ridiculous enough when I had to go at it, and that was four months ago.

Doc Roc and I actually pulled something together last night that stops basically all spells from touching the cube. Fun stuff.

EDIT: You also fought the commoner SGC. Now it is a wizard with one-way LoE.

EDIT2: It is 1 foot think, at 120 HP per inch. Not 60 HP :P

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:14 PM
I'm looking at the SBG, and I'm seeing H30HP60/In.

Edit: Wizard? What happened to druid summon spamming?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:18 PM
Magically-treated. It doubles the Hardness and HP. I also have a bit more than an inch of it :P

EDIT: Druid-summon spamming is fun, but I wanted to see what it could do with weezard.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:22 PM
Irrelevant to an ubercharger, but duly noted.

And why not do both? I'm sure you could figure out some form of easy-entry in to Arcane Hierophant.



You really do need to figure out a way to cancel out the veil set. It's such an easy workaround what's supposed to be your standard lethal trick.

Also, what's stopping the opponent from using G.A.S. and a dispel effect to shut down your one-way LoE? I haven't seen your cube in ages, so I can't recall if you're still using that Arcane Eye for LoS or found some better method.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-22, 08:27 PM
http://www.evocacion.com/magic-the-gathering/alpha/img/earthbind.jpg


Why does that remind me of La Blue Girl?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:29 PM
Irrelevant to an ubercharger, but duly noted.

And why not do both? I'm sure you could figure out some form of easy-entry in to Arcane Hierophant.



You really do need to figure out a way to cancel out the veil set. It's such an easy workaround what's supposed to be your standard lethal trick.

Also, what's stopping the opponent from using G.A.S. and a dispel effect to shut down your one-way LoE? I haven't seen your cube in ages, so I can't recall if you're still using that Arcane Eye for LoS or found some better method.

Oh, I'm far beyond Arcane Eye. I actually don't use the newest version for ToS duels, though. I still tend to use the commoner with Arcane Eye version.

Also, tornado. I has one.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:31 PM
Aware that you have a tornado. There are....a half-dozen ways I can think of to completely not care.

But considering the constraints of the OP (break open and hit in two round), my plot works, yes?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:34 PM
It does indeed.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:35 PM
Was that the first non-caster build to work? =P

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:36 PM
Well, not as such, no. A couple builds could be done with just UMD and Contingencies.

Also, I am strongly considering making alternating layers of paper and obdurium, making it take a stupid amount of disintegrates or smacks to break through.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:46 PM
I assume you've made your walls Ethereal so that we can't bypass them that way?

As for layered effects, that should work pretty well for most effects. The problem with that is that certain spell effects (like lightning bolt) will continue past an object it breaks, so a sufficiently tweaked spell effect might break through several mini-barriers where a solid one would have worked. But you'll probably find a way around that too.

Ex: Crumble targets a structure, is a 3rd level spell, and does a normal max of 10d8 damage, bypassing hardness. Metamagicked, you're going to want at least 2-3 inch thick walls separated by paper.

Edit: Alternatively, the Ironguard spell completely bypasses nonmagical and magical metal.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 08:49 PM
I assume you've made your walls Ethereal so that we can't bypass them that way?

As for layered effects, that should work pretty well for most effects. The problem with that is that certain spell effects (like lightning bolt) will continue past an object it breaks, so a sufficiently tweaked spell effect might break through several mini-barriers where a solid one would have worked. But you'll probably find a way around that too.Boo!

Not kosher, dude. Don't give him ideas! The whole point is that it evolves; he comes up with strategies that we defeat, which make their way into the competition as new stipulations. If you start out telling him every single possible way for us to beat it, it doesn't make it any fun at all, because it's now unbreachable.

DaedalusMkV
2009-11-22, 08:52 PM
Okay, I'm back with a coherent plan. Here we go! Same character as before, now with a plan.

Round 1:
Familiar uses rod of Cancellation on the Prismatic Wall. Unbind the Wall of Force.
Round 2
Use scroll of Teleport Object on the Obdurium (send it wherever. It doesn't matter). Even if it has many layers, the whole box goes away. Unattended, so no will save. Quickened or contingent anything hits the now defenseless SGC.

100% success rate. Any problems with this one?

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:53 PM
Well, we've already discussed incorporeal/ethereal breaching on the ToS chat, so I'm just confirming that he's acted on that trick.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:55 PM
Okay, I'm back with a coherent plan. Here we go! Same character as before, now with a plan.

Round 1:
Familiar uses rod of Cancellation on the Prismatic Wall. Unbind the Wall of Force.
Round 2
Use scroll of Teleport Object on the Obdurium (send it wherever. It doesn't matter). Even if it has many layers, the whole box goes away. Unattended, so no will save. Quickened or contingent anything hits the now defenseless SGC.

100% success rate. Any problems with this one?

Just one. What if I happen to be, say, holding part of the dirt? It's no longer unattended.

As for ways to make it unbreakable, that is exactly the point. If we get to the point where the only way to break it open is to sacrifice your entire character's resources to popping it open, I've succeeded. After all, after you pop it open, there's still a wizard inside.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 08:56 PM
100% success rate. Any problems with this one?

Might not work if the weight exceeds Teleport Object's capabilities. What IS the weight of The Box, anyway?


After all, after you pop it open, there's still a wizard inside.

A reverse piñata?

sofawall
2009-11-22, 08:58 PM
Might not work if the weight exceeds Teleport Object's capabilities. What IS the weight of The Box, anyway?

I'm scared to figure it out.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 08:58 PM
I can't help but notice that I receive no mention whatsoever from my psion uncarnate and my Burrowing Power trick. The first should work just fine, and the second should work if the Psicraft check is high enough (and with ranks, Int bonus, a masterwork tool, psicrystal Aid Another, +10 items, miscellaneous skill bonuses, and available spells, powers, and effects, this should be rather doable by level 13).

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 09:02 PM
If you're going to multi-layer the Box, I'm going to suggest using as many different material types as possible, to avoid material-specific phasing. Metal, Ice, Wood, Rock, Bone, you name it. Of course then you run in to the previously-mentioned Crumble issue, so good luck figuring it all out.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 09:06 PM
If you're going to multi-layer the Box, I'm going to suggest using as many different material types as possible, to avoid material-specific phasing. Metal, Ice, Wood, Rock, Bone, you name it.This makes it a moot competition. I quit.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 09:08 PM
This makes it a moot competition. I quit.

What, giving suggestions? It doesn't seem fair to have it be one mind vs a board, I don't see why we can't give him suggestions.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 09:09 PM
I can't help but notice that I receive no mention whatsoever from my psion uncarnate and my Burrowing Power trick. The first should work just fine, and the second should work if the Psicraft check is high enough (and with ranks, Int bonus, a masterwork tool, psicrystal Aid Another, +10 items, miscellaneous skill bonuses, and available spells, powers, and effects, this should be rather doable by level 13).

I actually missed it. I was busy looking for people complaining about houserules and quitting.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 09:13 PM
I actually missed it. I was busy looking for people complaining about houserules and quitting.Houserules are only fair if we know about them in the first place. Stealthing them in just to annoy people makes things no fun.

As far as him vs the boards, that's the entire point of the exercise.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 09:16 PM
Houserules are only fair if we know about them in the first place. Stealthing them in just to annoy people makes things no fun.

As far as him vs the boards, that's the entire point of the exercise.

Well, if you'll note, I did link the houserules in the first post.

Second, the entire point of the exercise was to make the box as hard to get into as possible. If someone else can help me accomplish this, less thinking I have to do. I even made a little guideline for what a solution should ideally include.

DaedalusMkV
2009-11-22, 09:17 PM
So, uh... Did I win, or do I have to find some other non-disintegrate method of getting rid of the box? I think I have a way, but I'd like to know...

sofawall
2009-11-22, 09:19 PM
Daedalus: Maybe. I need to calculate the weight of the cube, and look up whether or not it's an attended object. I'm AFB, though, so reviews of any tricks will have to wait until I can get back on my own computer.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 09:21 PM
Obdurium has no listed weight/density in the SBG, so this might be a bit problematic.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-22, 09:22 PM
You're effectively the DM. Just say it's impenetrable, and there you go.

Also, I apologize for not reading the houserules like I should have. However, it does make the competition only viable when using that particular set.

sofawall
2009-11-22, 09:26 PM
You're effectively the DM. Just say it's impenetrable, and there you go.

Also, I apologize for not reading the houserules like I should have. However, it does make the competition only viable when using that particular set.

I'm pretty sure Doc Roc is effectively the DM, actually, not me.

And this was never intended to go farther than ToS, although I may pull it out in an arena setting when the organizers have been careless with banning books.

And as for the houserules, I don't understand what you are saying. "If you run a thought exercise using houserules, then it only works using those houserules?" I would have thought that was obvious. Of course using other rules would change the circumstances. for example, banning the Stronghold Builder's Guide would kinda throw a wrench in the works.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 09:52 PM
Alternatively, allowing half the things on the ToS banlist would throw a wrench in the opposite direction.

sambo.
2009-11-22, 11:10 PM
sorry if it's already been suggested/poo'pood
a Wish spell and a greater metarod of Quicken?

SGC damaged in one swift action.

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 11:19 PM
Technically not within the parameters of the wish spell as stated.

Zaq
2009-11-22, 11:43 PM
I get the gut feeling that there's something we can do with Line of Shadow, but I'm really not sure what.

sambo.
2009-11-22, 11:48 PM
Technically not within the parameters of the wish spell as stated.

so it's simply a matter of wording the Wish correctly then?

in that case: done in one swift action.

what do i win?

Signmaker
2009-11-22, 11:49 PM
It works if you were able to have LoS and LoE to the user at some point. In a combat setting, this would be true, but within this thought exercise it is not.

Zaq
2009-11-22, 11:56 PM
It works if you were able to have LoS and LoE to the user at some point. In a combat setting, this would be true, but within this thought exercise it is not.

Precisely. Still, it's a rare example of "no, you really don't need LoS/LoE, even if you do," so I can't help but feel like there's some applicability here. As you said, though, the clause that you have to have had LoS/LoE previously throws a wrench into things, but...

TheCountAlucard
2009-11-23, 12:13 AM
Y'know, I've yet to see my victory on the front page, either... :smallconfused:

In fact, it looks like you've retroactively just added in the whole "flight" thing after I had mentioned it. :smallfrown:

sofawall
2009-11-23, 12:15 AM
I'm actually looking into things now, as I only just got back on the computer. If you aren't on the front page and you think you killed it, PM me a link to the post where you killed it, just to make sure I see it, m'kay?

Signmaker
2009-11-23, 12:21 AM
Y'know, I've yet to see my victory on the front page, either... :smallconfused:

In fact, it looks like you've retroactively just added in the whole "flight" thing after I had mentioned it. :smallfrown:

As my old Ghost build can attest, it's been flying for a good three months or so.

sofawall
2009-11-23, 12:25 AM
To be fair, I forgot to mention it.

erikun
2009-11-23, 12:38 AM
Is there some way to make the box ethereal, magical walls and all? Because if so, it would simply be a matter of walking into the space where the box was and casting Magic Missile into the gooey center. Ethereal Jaunt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/etherealJaunt.htm) has neither saving throw nor spell resistance, if there is a way to target the box with it. (Wish might do it, but that's too high level. Limited Wish is too low level. Is there a lower level Ethereal Jaunt?)

The other possibility is teleporting the box (or at least its contents) into a dead magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#deadMagic) major positive dominat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant) plane and wait for it to spontaneously explode. It might not die within 2 rounds, but it doesn't have any way back so death is inevitable. Could Limited Wish be used to cast Plane Shift without needing to touch the creature?

Just some thoughts.

Doc Roc
2009-11-23, 01:55 AM
I think that probably, since you forgot to mention the flight, he should get a win.

Prime32
2009-11-23, 04:36 AM
Is there some way to make the box ethereal, magical walls and all? Because if so, it would simply be a matter of walking into the space where the box was and casting Magic Missile into the gooey center. Ethereal Jaunt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/etherealJaunt.htm) has neither saving throw nor spell resistance, if there is a way to target the box with it. (Wish might do it, but that's too high level. Limited Wish is too low level. Is there a lower level Ethereal Jaunt?)

The other possibility is teleporting the box (or at least its contents) into a dead magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#deadMagic) major positive dominat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant) plane and wait for it to spontaneously explode. It might not die within 2 rounds, but it doesn't have any way back so death is inevitable. Could Limited Wish be used to cast Plane Shift without needing to touch the creature?

Just some thoughts.

A ninja with Flyby Attack and a rod of cancellation. Use ghost step to turn ethereal for one round. Pass through the prismatic wall, attack the wall of force with the rod of cancellation and keep going through the obdurium. On the next round attack the gooey centre. If you can get some kind of damaging aura (such as that soulmeld - "Mantle of Flame" I think - from a feat) you can do this in one round.

What level does a ninja gain Ghost Step (ethereal) again? Wasn't there also a soulmeld which let you turn ethereal?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-23, 04:49 AM
I propose that a character crack through defenses until he gets to the dirt layer, and then cast an Earthbound Spell.

The spell will then be triggered by the familiar. A spell that will cause the caster to be eaten by the Hounds is then cast.

The hounds then show up. They eat the center, which is right next to the dirt layer and obviously cast the spell.

Or

alacritous cognition Contingency is a standard action. Apply Ocular Spell.

Peel away Dispelling Screen, Prismatic Wall, and Wall of Force. Apply Contingency via eyebeams to the metal.

Trigger contingency. An illegal spell is cast. Angry hounds show up.

Prime32
2009-11-23, 04:55 AM
Apply Contingency via eyebeams to the metal.I find this oddly hilarious.

Hmm... would it be possible to kill the centre by casting heat metal on the obdurium?

Doc Roc
2009-11-23, 05:03 AM
ToS Rules mean that metamagics don't change the effect-range of spells, so you can't spread personals that way. I banned most of my own tricks first, after all. :)

We're making a better game, all of them better games.
I know that I'm a monster, and that there'll be no place for me.

arguskos
2009-11-23, 05:10 AM
We're making a better game, all of them better games.
I know that I'm a monster, and that there'll be no place for me.
I see that there sir.

Also, is it possible to just, I dunno, send the box somewhere else with a plane shift effect? If yes, then does it take everything in it with it? If yes, yay, send it somewhere horribly impossible to survive. If no, then it's still gone, the SGC isn't, and you can just whack it with a stick.

Prime32
2009-11-23, 05:23 AM
I see that there sir.

Also, is it possible to just, I dunno, send the box somewhere else with a plane shift effect? If yes, then does it take everything in it with it? If yes, yay, send it somewhere horribly impossible to survive. If no, then it's still gone, the SGC isn't, and you can just whack it with a stick.Or let him die from falling damage. Or just remove the inner two layers of the box so that he falls into a prismatic wall.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-23, 05:24 AM
ToS Rules mean that metamagics don't change the effect-range of spells, so you can't spread personals that way. I banned most of my own tricks first, after all. :)

You said nothing about earthbound spell.

arguskos
2009-11-23, 05:36 AM
Or let him die from falling damage. Or just remove the inner two layers of the box so that he falls into a prismatic wall.
See? This tactic may have some merit. I just don't know how to survive casting it on the Box. Maybe Ocular Spell (Plane Shift)?

Doc Roc
2009-11-23, 11:32 AM
The real problem is the wall of force. There's a spell called forceward that might be useful.

Signmaker
2009-11-23, 11:52 AM
Oh hey, my NotACaster technically doesn't have an anti-dirt method.

Burrow. Done. =)

streakster
2009-11-23, 03:49 PM
All right. Here's my try.

Class: Any. I don't even care.
Items: Warhorse. +1 Brilliant Energy Intelligent Legacy Dart. 1 Contingent disintegrate.

Round one: Warhorse charges the prismatic wall. There is a non-zero chance that it will survive to impact the wall of force. Should it do so, it's contingent spell goes off (Trigger: If this horse hits a wall of force, cast disintegrate, of course!) Horse now knocked out. Wall of Force now removed.

My dart readies an action to use one of its spell-likes on the SGC when it has gotten past the final non SGC layer of the box.

I throw my dart at the side of the Box breached by my horse.

As a construct, it is allowed saves against the Prismatic Wall. Again, there is a non-zero chance of its success. Upon passing the prismatic wall, it bypasses the obdurium and dirt due to Brilliant Energy. Finally, when passing through the SGC (as it is undead), it activates its readied action, casting, let's say, fireball.

Round two: Victory dance.

Odds of success: Low. Requires a horse and construct to pass all of the wall's saves.

Pun Potential: Rather high. You have no idea how tempting it was to make the horse undead, so I could beat you with a dead horse. Or to make the kill spell acid arrow, so that my dart would dart in to hit you in the heart with a dart. "Force" of impact and other atrocities omitted.

Signmaker
2009-11-23, 05:20 PM
Streakster, there are a few ways to tweak your build to improve the odds. For save success, pack massive amounts of Phaant Luckstones to reroll.

Alternatively, you can ignore the wall of force with a forceward, which just leaves getting the Brilliant Energy Dart to either ignore or save against the Prismawall. Nice call on Brilliant Energy, Intelligent, Spellcasting Weapon, by the way.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-23, 10:11 PM
Okay, I suck. I admit it, and I apologize.

I was frustrated about other stuff, and I kinda got angry. It's the internet; it's SRS BSNS.

Anyway, I have a thing.

Elven (or half-elven) ranger 6/sorcerer 1/arcane archer 6, with Quickdraw. 1 round.

Start out adjacent to the box, attack one of the prismatic wall facings of the box with a rod of cancellation. Quickdraw a second rod, and attack the wall of force with it. Quickdraw a bow, draw an arrow, and fire a phasing, seeking, lucky arrow, which will all but auto-hit the gooey center.

Chances of failure (assuming the box is landbound): .25% (on a double nat 1).

Signmaker
2009-11-23, 10:23 PM
Start out adjacent to the box, attack one of the prismatic wall facings of the box with a rod of cancellation. Quickdraw a second rod, and attack the wall of force with it. Quickdraw a bow, draw an arrow, and fire a phasing, seeking, lucky arrow, which will all but auto-hit the gooey center.


The phasing....armor enhancement? Which only works on wood, plaster, or stone?

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-23, 10:46 PM
The phasing....armor enhancement? Which only works on wood, plaster, or stone?Go read the arcane archer's class features. :smalltongue:

[edit] Ack. Looks like the phase arrow will have to take place in round 2. Standard action. Still doable in the time allotted, though. If the DM rules that you can't use phasing and seeking in the same standard action, toss seeking in as an arrow enhancement.

Lord Thurlvin
2009-11-24, 12:14 AM
Changelist:

T.G.Oskar reminds me to give the Soft Gooey Center an alignment.
Realized 5 rounds gave a pure commoner a better than even chance, so reduced to 2.

I guess I don't have the right sourcebooks, or maybe I'm missing something important. HOW would a pure commoner be able to do this?

sofawall
2009-11-24, 12:24 AM
UMD is a powerful skill.

Signmaker
2009-11-24, 12:26 AM
I guess I don't have the right sourcebooks, or maybe I'm missing something important. HOW would a pure commoner be able to do this?

Nothing presented is derived from a class feature.

streakster
2009-11-24, 12:28 AM
I guess I don't have the right sourcebooks, or maybe I'm missing something important. HOW would a pure commoner be able to do this?

A commoner could use my solution, and have a chance.

Isn't WBL great?

Doc Roc
2009-11-24, 12:28 AM
Nothing presented is derived from a class feature.

Correction, for the pedantic.
Nothing presented here, spell-wise, is impossible for you to achieve with scrolls, and UMD. We're within the "buyable solutions" range.

Signmaker
2009-11-24, 12:31 AM
Correction, for the pedantic.
Nothing presented here, spell-wise, is impossible for you to achieve with scrolls, and UMD. We're within the "buyable solutions" range.

Gratzi for the improved explanation.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-24, 04:31 AM
I do believe I deserve a mention on the front page, at least.

4 successes:

The psion attempt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7360314&postcount=44) (make him a psion 5/crystal master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d) 8, with Burrowing Power, Quicken Power, Psionic Mastery, Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Containment, Psionic Affinity, and Skill Focus: Psicraft (7/7 feats spent)).

Psicraft score of +68:
+16 ranks
+11 from 32 Int (starting 18, +2 from grey elf, +3 from age, +3 from levels, +3 from headband, +2 from crystal master, +1 from 1 power stone of reality revision manifested beforehand)
+1 luck bonus from a luckstone
+2 circumstance from a masterwork tool
+2 circumstance from psicrystal (Aid Another); stacks with mw tool
+2 synergy from 5 ranks in Kn: Psionics
+2 morale from a candle of invocation
+2 untyped from Psionic Affinity
+3 untyped from Skill Focus: Psicraft
+10 competence from a crystal mask (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#crystalMaskofPsionicCraft)
+17 insight via psionic moment of prescience from a power stone (does not fail due to taking 10 on ML checks via Psionic Mastery feat)
A reroll from second chance
+12 from a partridge in a pear tree.

(That's 107,505/110,000 gp spent.
55 gp on the mw tool
400 gp on gems for crystal master
3,825 gp on a ML 17 power stone of psionic moment of prescience
8,400 gp on the candle of invocation
10,000 gp on the crystal mask
20,000 gp on the luckstone
28,825 gp on the power stone of reality revision
36,000 gp on the headband +6)

We'll stretch this out to 2 rounds.

Round 1: Psion appears adjacent to box.
Psion manifests psionic moment of prescience from a power stone, taking 10 on the check due to Psionic Mastery. Psicrystal uses its standard action (and its Hidden Talent: matter agitation feat) to light a candle of invocation (purely for the +2 to skills; this shouldn't get it eaten by The Hounds, due to not being at all cheese-related; if it does get eaten, the psion simply gets another one due to still having it from a feat :smalltongue:. If he doesn't, he should know this already, and will skip that part).

Round 2: Psicrystal uses the Aid Another (Psicraft) action on the psion. The psion manifests a second chance and a Quickened, Burrowing Power'd swarm of crystals. He has a 5% chance of not Burrowing through the obdurium, and a 100% chance of getting through the other layers. If he flubs the obdurium roll, he'll use second chance to reroll.

A grand total of a 99.75% chance of success. Slightly lower if he's missing a +2 due to the possibility of his psicrystal getting devoured.

Also, a variation on the wizard 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7360282&postcount=42) that was ruled to be unusable due to simulacrums and such being banned:

Wizard 13 with Arcane Mastery and a single scroll of wish. Move action to draw scroll, Take 10 on the caster level check to cast it as a standard action (auto-success) to wish for the gooey center to be brought directly in front of me (explicitly functions from anywhere regardless of local conditions), bypassing the walls of force and prismatic wall, and ignores LoE and LoS issues. Next round: magic missile.

And this one actually works. :smallbiggrin:

The psion uncarnate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7362038&postcount=116) should work even with the 6-sided cube with all sides coated in both prismatic walls and walls of force.

As does the arcane archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7371387&postcount=200).

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-25, 05:08 PM
Welp. Looks like I broke The Box after all...

Signmaker
2009-11-25, 05:12 PM
Welp. Looks like I broke The Box after all...

This incarnation, yes.

It's....gotten crazier since, if Sofa would ever update it.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-25, 05:16 PM
This incarnation, yes.

It's....gotten crazier since, if Sofa would ever update it.Proof or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

Signmaker
2009-11-25, 05:18 PM
Proof or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

Can't prove it without Sofa, hence the complaint.