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View Full Version : [4E] Balancing a homebrew idea



Grynning
2009-11-22, 12:10 PM
So, I was trying to make Conan (the real, Robert E. Howard version, not the Austrian ape from the movie) in 4th edition, because statting various famous characters is kind of a past-time of mine. I made him a Thaneborn, but Conan is also tough as nails and Rageblood is mechanically better, so I was torn on the choice, and kinda unhappy with the final result. I got to thinking, it would be really cool if 4th edition had a "multi-class" feat for your own class, so if you wanted to pick up a 2nd class feature from it, you could.

Do you think there's a way such a feat could work? I was thinking along the lines of existing multi-class feats, where you only gain a per-encounter use of the other class feature, but you got to count as having that feature for the purpose of powers. Warlocks already kind of have this feat with Twofold Pact. Why should they get to have all the fun?

Rangers and Fighters are problematic since they don't have many powers with class-feature based riders, but all the other classes would benefit from it greatly, particularly Rogues and Barbarians I would think. Also, should such a feat count as multi-classing? Twofold Pact doesn't, but I have a feeling that it was added because Wizards felt Warlocks were a little weak, so maybe other classes would be a bit too strong if they could combine that AND multi-classing.

Also I'd like to know if there are any other in-class feats that give you extras (like Twofold Pact) out there, since I haven't played every class.

Discuss.

Tiki Snakes
2009-11-22, 12:14 PM
I never saw conan as a barbarian by class anyway.

To even get close to representing the true conan you'd probably need some unholy mixture of hybrid and multiclass.

Or just a fighter, really. :)

[edit] If nothing else, Conan should be Martial as far as power-source goes.

Grynning
2009-11-22, 12:20 PM
I never saw conan as a barbarian by class anyway.

To even get close to representing the true conan you'd probably need some unholy mixture of hybrid and multiclass.

Or just a fighter, really. :)

[edit] If nothing else, Conan should be Martial as far as power-source goes.

Well, in 4th edition, you have to pick one class as a base, and Barbarian really does work for him. The powers and the abilities of the class fit him rather well, if not the flavor. I used Bravo multiclass to get his Intimidate training and to represent his Piracy/Banditry etc.

But that really wasn't the point of the post. Multi-classing into your own class and getting the other "set" of class features was.

Gametime
2009-11-22, 12:40 PM
I think feats like that are an interesting idea, but should be done on a class-by-class basis and not necessarily universalized like multiclass feats are. I also don't think they need to count as your multiclass - as long as they're done individually and handled carefully, they shouldn't be a huge problem.

Also note that Twofold Pact gives you a choice, not an unqualified bonus. A lot of classes could have a feat like this (including barbarians, where you choose which effect you get when bloodying an enemy). It doesn't make you stronger in any given situation, but it adds versatility that will help you deal with a wider variety of situations. That's a good feat design, but also not so strong that it needs to be limited any more.

Grynning
2009-11-22, 12:47 PM
I think feats like that are an interesting idea, but should be done on a class-by-class basis and not necessarily universalized like multiclass feats are. I also don't think they need to count as your multiclass - as long as they're done individually and handled carefully, they shouldn't be a huge problem.

Also note that Twofold Pact gives you a choice, not an unqualified bonus. A lot of classes could have a feat like this (including barbarians, where you choose which effect you get when bloodying an enemy). It doesn't make you stronger in any given situation, but it adds versatility that will help you deal with a wider variety of situations. That's a good feat design, but also not so strong that it needs to be limited any more.

I think the bigger benefit to Twofold Pact is activating the power riders for both pacts. I think for Barbarians and Rogues it would be similar, since there are a lot of powers that are good, but much better if you have to corresponding class feature. This is what I'm worried about as far as balance goes (i.e. will having more bonuses on powers tip some classes over others).

Gralamin
2009-11-22, 02:24 PM
Warlords also already have this, through Infernal Strategist.

I'd say that in general, this feat would probably be overpoweringly strong. Despite that, it would have to be at least paragon, and it likely needs to be a class by class basis. Fighters, Rangers, and other classes, for instance, don't really have any active effects that would apply.

Duos Greanleef
2009-11-23, 12:41 AM
...Despite that, it would have to be at least paragon, and it likely needs to be a class by class basis...

^Agreed^



...Fighters, Rangers, and other classes, for instance, don't really have any active effects that would apply.
Fighters: Battlerager Vigor + any of the weapon talents = tHP and better weapon usage.
Rangers: TWF + Beast Mastery = TOTALLY awesome!

In hindsight, both of those would be dramatically overpowered.