PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Raptoran Cleric Build Questions



Da'Shain
2009-11-22, 12:28 PM
Hey there, everyone. I was just drafting up a new character for a game I'm playing in (I think my old character might be about to get ganked by the rest of the all-evil party next session), and I decided that next, I want to play a chaotic evil cleric of the Traveller. And searching for suitably out of the ordinary species to play (this is the first game I've played where monster species were allowed), I stumbled across the Raptoran and surprisingly fell in lust to play one at once, despite its lack of monster status. The idea of a winged, feathered old man flying around calling down storms of wrath, gleefully laughing as he brings about the often catastrophic change his god fosters, really appeals to me.

So, the build is Cleric 7/Skypledged 9/Contemplative 6/Loremaster 3, so far. Yes, it's an epic game, but epic spellcasting is not really being used (DM says it'll be for plot devices only). We're not allowed dips into classes to cherrypick abilities, because my DM thinks its lame, but we don't necessarily have to see them through to the end either, so this should meet with his approval.

My specific questions at the moment:

-I'm going Skypledged 9 because I really wanted the ability to summon gales, and the 9th level ability to turn into an air elemental seemed like a better capstone than the 10th level which looks very underwhelming to me. But is the air elemental transformation worth it, or am I just being wowed by pretty lights there? Should I drop that last level for something else?

-What's a good spell to DMM Persist on myself every day? So far the best I can come up with is Greater Visage of the Deity. I know DMM Persist is fairly cheesy, but there's some other cheesy stuff going on with other players so I think the DM will be okay with it.

-For my two epic feats, I ended up just getting Improved Spell Capacity twice, so I have 10th and 11th level slots. Do I get domain slots at those levels as well, and are there better epic feats I should be taking? I figure I can do some pretty nasty stuff with those slots, and I didn't see much that looked better to me, but I'm a pretty big noob at epic play.

Thanks in advance!

Nate the Snake
2009-11-22, 11:19 PM
-I'm going Skypledged 9 because I really wanted the ability to summon gales, and the 9th level ability to turn into an air elemental seemed like a better capstone than the 10th level which looks very underwhelming to me. But is the air elemental transformation worth it, or am I just being wowed by pretty lights there? Should I drop that last level for something else?

If you really like the ability to turn into an air elemental, then go for it. I don't see a reason not to take it. :smallsmile:


-What's a good spell to DMM Persist on myself every day? So far the best I can come up with is Greater Visage of the Deity. I know DMM Persist is fairly cheesy, but there's some other cheesy stuff going on with other players so I think the DM will be okay with it.

Divine Power and Righteous Might are standard DMM spells, if you want to go the "better fighter than the fighter" route, but I for one support the Persistent Greater Visage of the Deity. :smallcool:


-For my two epic feats, I ended up just getting Improved Spell Capacity twice, so I have 10th and 11th level slots. Do I get domain slots at those levels as well, and are there better epic feats I should be taking?


A cleric also gets one domain spell of each spell level he can cast, starting at 1st level.

Yes, you get 10th and 11th level domain slots.

Da'Shain
2009-11-23, 03:22 PM
If you really like the ability to turn into an air elemental, then go for it. I don't see a reason not to take it. :smallsmile:Yeah it's pretty cool, and fits thematically with what I want from him. Kinda an avatar of the "winds of change" saying, you know? :smallbiggrin: I just wasn't certain if there was some other crazy thing I could be doing if I dropped it.


Divine Power and Righteous Might are standard DMM spells, if you want to go the "better fighter than the fighter" route, but I for one support the Persistent Greater Visage of the Deity. :smallcool:Nah, this guy'll be an old man, primarily a spellcaster; his physical abilities are pretty weak, even with the enhancements from those spells. Plus, with the 10th and 11th level spell slots, I can persist those without DMM, lol!


Yes, you get 10th and 11th level domain slots.That is awesome, I wasn't sure if it worked like that or not. So does that mean I can hold any of my domain spells in there again, or that I can apply metamagic to them and hold them in those slots? Like, if I have Haste as a 4th level domain spell, can I persist it and put it in my 10th level domain spell slot?

Thanks for the advice!


Also, another question: is the Improved Flight feat from RotW worth a feat slot? I figured it gives me the ability to hover, which is pretty big I think, but there's probably other stuff I could do with the feat slot. Like, the Spontaneous Domains feat from CC seems pretty awesome, especially since I'll have 4 domains.

Also, I forgot about the Hierophant class, which is awesome at epic levels since I can't gain spell slots anyway w/o feats. So I think I'll swap out Loremaster for Hierophant.

Nate the Snake
2009-11-23, 10:43 PM
That is awesome, I wasn't sure if it worked like that or not. So does that mean I can hold any of my domain spells in there again, or that I can apply metamagic to them and hold them in those slots? Like, if I have Haste as a 4th level domain spell, can I persist it and put it in my 10th level domain spell slot?

Epic domain slots work just like regular ones: they can hold any domain spell of equal or lower level. Your 10th level slot can hold a Persistent Haste, a Quickened Extended Haste, or even an unmodified Haste.


Also, another question: is the Improved Flight feat from RotW worth a feat slot? I figured it gives me the ability to hover, which is pretty big I think, but there's probably other stuff I could do with the feat slot. Like, the Spontaneous Domains feat from CC seems pretty awesome, especially since I'll have 4 domains.

You're an epic spellcaster; you have better things to do with feat slots than take Improved Flight. :smallamused:

Spontaneous Domains is definitely good if you have lots of domains. I also like Spontaneous Domain Access (ELH/SRD), which lets you spontaneously cast domain spells (one domain per feat) from your non-domain slots. Take Extra Domain for even more domains. :smallbiggrin: Metamagic is good too.


Also, I forgot about the Hierophant class, which is awesome at epic levels since I can't gain spell slots anyway w/o feats. So I think I'll swap out Loremaster for Hierophant.

Sounds like a good plan. :smallcool:

Da'Shain
2009-11-24, 12:25 AM
Epic domain slots work just like regular ones: they can hold any domain spell of equal or lower level. Your 10th level slot can hold a Persistent Haste, a Quickened Extended Haste, or even an unmodified Haste.Eeeexcellent, hehehe. And I think I have enough WIS (with items) to get an extra 10th level slot, so I'll have 5 slots above level 9 including domains. Frickin' awesome.


You're an epic spellcaster; you have better things to do with feat slots than take Improved Flight. :smallamused:Yeah, but I only have two epic feats; I figured Improved Flight would be one of the things he'd take in his early levels, to get the hovering ability. I meant normal feats that are just totally better. Metamagic's good, but I've already got quicken, extend, persist and twin; I can't think of much else that I want more than the hovering ability.


Spontaneous Domains is definitely good if you have lots of domains. I also like Spontaneous Domain Access (ELH/SRD), which lets you spontaneously cast domain spells (one domain per feat) from your non-domain slots. Take Extra Domain for even more domains. :smallbiggrin: Metamagic is good too.: I'll probably try those out for the next epic feat in two levels, although I'm seriously considering just getting a 12th level slot lol.

Saintheart
2009-11-24, 03:52 AM
Also, another question: is the Improved Flight feat from RotW worth a feat slot? I figured it gives me the ability to hover, which is pretty big I think, but there's probably other stuff I could do with the feat slot. Like, the Spontaneous Domains feat from CC seems pretty awesome, especially since I'll have 4 domains.

Speaking as a DM who has a hovering Avariel Duskblade in his Red Hand of Doom campaign, Hover's a priceless feat. Depending on how your DM runs it it basically means no more retaining half your movement allowance to maintain airspeed. That extends your mobility, which is always good. And for the Duskblade in my campaign, if you team that up with Flyby Attacks, it makes you a pretty solid hit-and-run fighter.

On the other hand, if you can get a nice arcane caster in the campaign to keep you supplied with Potions of Fly, this isn't a big problem.

Da'Shain
2009-11-24, 07:40 PM
Speaking as a DM who has a hovering Avariel Duskblade in his Red Hand of Doom campaign, Hover's a priceless feat. Depending on how your DM runs it it basically means no more retaining half your movement allowance to maintain airspeed. That extends your mobility, which is always good. And for the Duskblade in my campaign, if you team that up with Flyby Attacks, it makes you a pretty solid hit-and-run fighter.

On the other hand, if you can get a nice arcane caster in the campaign to keep you supplied with Potions of Fly, this isn't a big problem.I've actually talked to my DM about this, and sadly he's not gonna allow Raptorans. Not because he thinks they're imbalanced or anything, just because he doesn't have the book and he's trying not to allow anything from books he doesn't have. So I think I'm just gonna make a human; he'll be the odd one out this campaign anyway, and probably fits better as a high cleric of the Traveler, considering humans are usually the most changeable and widespread race in D&D settings.

Too bad. But with persisted Greater Visage of the Deity, he'll be flying around anyway, although with only average maneuverability. His domains are Travel, Trickery, Artifice and Celerity, so he can cast fly on himself when he needs to to get that hovering ability. I'm definitely gonna go with Spontaneous Domains as one of his feats; I'm undecided on what to take for the extra two, now that Improved Flight is not being taken for obvious reasons. I'm sad to be losing Skypledged, but I'm sure there's spells that can do pretty much everything it could do, so I guess it's not a big loss.

Bibliomancer
2009-11-24, 07:46 PM
I've actually talked to my DM about this, and sadly he's not gonna allow Raptorans. Not because he thinks they're imbalanced or anything, just because he doesn't have the book and he's trying not to allow anything from books he doesn't have. So I think I'm just gonna make a human; he'll be the odd one out this campaign anyway, and probably fits better as a high cleric of the Traveler, considering humans are usually the most changeable and widespread race in D&D settings.

Too bad. But with persisted Greater Visage of the Deity, he'll be flying around anyway, although with only average maneuverability. His domains are Travel, Trickery, Artifice and Celerity, so he can cast fly on himself when he needs to to get that hovering ability. I'm definitely gonna go with Spontaneous Domains as one of his feats; I'm undecided on what to take for the extra two, now that Improved Flight is not being taken for obvious reasons. I'm sad to be losing Skypledged, but I'm sure there's spells that can do pretty much everything it could do, so I guess it's not a big loss.

Does your DM have the Eberron Campaign setting? Changelings are fun to use as any class with some social interaction skills, but would also be appropriate as a cleric of the Traveler. Since its Epic levels, the disguise ability doesn't matter as much, but you could still have the party thinking that you're a drow.

Da'Shain
2009-11-24, 07:52 PM
Hmm. It's worth a look, I'd say. Yes, the DM does definitely have the Eberron campaign setting, and a few other books besides; the campaign itself takes place partially in Eberron. I forgot that the Changeling had Speak Language as a class skill all the time; that's very useful since he's enforcing languages while we plane hop, and Tongues only lasts so long (I'm not gonna bother wasting a high level slot persisting it every day). That offsets the human's extra skill point each level kinda, but I'm not sure if I wanna give up the extra feat as well, for some skill bonuses and the disguise ability. I'll have to think about that. Thanks for reminding me, though.