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View Full Version : Custom Base Class - The White Clad (3.5) (PEACH)



ThreadOfFate
2009-11-22, 04:55 PM
So I've been playing a lot of Assassin's Creed recently, due to the new one being released.

My friend and I realized that you could make Altair (or any member of the Assassins) through several combinations of existing classes, but none of them quite fully matched the version you see in the games.

With that in mind, we set out to make a playable video game-to-tabletop conversion of a member of the Hashshashins.

We figured Altair was somewhere between levels 15 and 20 in AC, so we had to scale it down a bit and think more of how he would be back at early levels.

To clarify: We didn't make this to fit any specific role, nor to replace one. We made it because we wanted to see if we could accurately translate game mechanics while keeping it balanced.

Anyway, it's below, as much as we have. Thoughts and feedback would be very greatly appreciated.

The White Clad
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

Requisite fluff
Adventures
The Order of the White Clad is an organization devoted to peace. This, however, often requires violence. If one man must be killed for the sake of one thousand, the Order will see it is done. They have extensive political knowledge of the land, and they use this knowledge to decide who they must kill. They fight on behalf of those who are oppressed, who need to be freed from the chains wrapped around them by political oppressors. Each white clad gets their orders from the leader of the Order, which is passed to them through the local guild contact.
From there on, it is the white clad's responsibility to carry out the assigned task. They work within the city, gathering information about their target through a variety of means - eavesdropping, intercepting communication, bribery, interrogation
Characteristics
A white clad stalks through shadows and difficult urban terrain, searching for his targets and finding ways to gather information inconspicuously. She fairs extremely well with blending into normal city life; therefore, she avoids detection by simply pretending she is a normal citizen. Her strikes are quick and deadly, and she takes a lot of time to plan her attacks, living amongst the people and observing the city. Finally, her code of conduct governs her actions. She focuses on subtlety when moving through the city and dealing with foes who are not her targets; otherwise, her actions may attract too much attention.
For a white clad, the kill does not mean whatever is necessary to assassinate the target - they kill with honor. Every kill is performed with her weapons, by herself, out in the open (so that word can spread). This keeps the enemies of the Order well aware that the Order exists, and are willing to bring justice and a swift death to those who deserve it - no sin goes unpunished. A well-planned, well-executed kill is their trademark, using the crowd as their cover to both get within range and escape once the deed is done.
Above all, white clads know the true value of human life. They understand and respect it, even when they know it must be taken for the sake of a greater ideal. Assassinations are therefore done with great deliberation and a respect for the target - no poisons, no torture, no rough or uncivilized kills (i.e. strangulation), no thrown knives from the shadows or bows from a distant rooftop. The opponent is stabbed with a blade, then the white clad gently lays the body down and closes their eyes before making their escape.
Religion
The Order is specifically devoted to eliminating those who would threaten peace; this is most often a religious leader. Because of this, the Order has no official religious affiliation, but the members are free to choose whichever religion they wish. They are told, though, to keep their eyes open, and to never forget that the Order comes before their beliefs. It does not matter if a priest claims he is serving a good-aligned deity - his actions will tell the truth.
That being said, if a white clad does pick a deity, it is likely a Good or Neutral deity.
Background
The white clad will most often raise one of their members from birth, indoctrinating them. In rare occasions, an outsider will be accepted by demonstrating an exceptional display of skill.
Most white clad are chosen while they are at their physical and wizened peaks. They ascend through ranks by proving their skills in stealth and judgment. Since wisdom seldom inhabits the minds of the young, youths are generally not selected knowingly until they attain the wisdom of the temple. At a point in which the organization deems an individual as worthy of being a white clad, she is given controlled trials in order to measure her competence.
White clad of the same guild usually recognize each other by appearance; however, white clad of different guilds may only recognize each other through contacts or through signals. Quite often, however, the white clad only concern themselves with individuals that further their progress with missions. This does not mean they are adverse to working with partners or in a team - it just means that most of their work is done solo, for other people may be a liability to their assignment.
Races
Humans prominently join the ranks of the white clad because their race’s diversity fluctuates from extreme virtue to unrelenting malevolence. As such, conflict often arises between sects of humanity. Half-elves, too, sometimes join the white clad because they relate so closely to their human halves. Elves are also good candidates, focusing on wisdom through learned experiences. Other races may also consider the life of a white clad if they feel in-line with the white clad's ideas.
Among the savage humanoids, white clad are all but unheard of.
Other Classes
White clad are in several ways set apart from others. They seldom work in groups while on missions; although, they nearly always use teamwork by means of networks, check points, and split groups. Inconspicuous cooperation between members is what is valued most by the white clad while in teams.
White clad frown upon evil acts by their companions, and cannot abide with evil-aligned companions. The white clad will not kill them unless they become a serious threat to peace or she is ordered to do so, but the companion cannot expect the white clad's full support, and the white clad may attempt to hand her companion to the proper authorities.
Role
White clad perform trickery, scouting, and stealth extremely well for groups, often replacing the role of a scout or rogue for these positions. They lack trapfinding, but are excellent for quick, deadly first strikes.


Game Rule Information
White Clad have the following game statistics:

Abilities
Intelligence determines the white clad's knowledge of her surroundings. Dexterity provides an avid defense against her enemies as well as mobility when moving through difficult terrain. Wisdom governs her judgment and insight in battle and movement. Charisma enhances her ability to gather information about her targets and interrogate her subjects.

Alignment
The white clad are a diverse bunch. They run the full law/chaos spectrum - though they are devoted to ridding their world of oppressive systems and encourage freedom, they have a strict set of rules they must act by and are an established organization with severe consequences for disobeying and a very set hierarchy.
Therefore, a white clad is lawful not towards the local law, but to the white clad law. In most cases, this does mesh rather well with the local laws, but the white clad is not afraid to disagree or break the local law in favor of their Creed.
The most common white clad alignment is usually Neutral Good. Chaotic Good and Lawful Good are also widespread.
True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral can also work, but it is a strained relationship due to their Creed and emphasized lack of personal profit/notoriety. Lawful Neutral is a fitting alignment as well.
Very, very few white clad are evil - smart evil types can disguise their intentions, but the organization is beholden to a higher ideal than personal greed and motivation for power. This tends to weed out those who would use the white clad techniques and skills for personal gain.

Starting Gold
6d4x10 (150g)
Hit Die
d8
Class Skills
Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

The White Clad
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|
Special|
Rank|Fast Movement

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+1|White Creed, Blend 16, Sneak Attack +1d6, AC Bonus|
Initiate|
+0 ft

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+2|Uncanny Dodge|
Novice|
+0 ft

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+2|Sneak Attack +2d6, Eagle's Instinct||
+0 ft

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+3|Sidestep 1/enc, Agile (+2)|
Apprentice|
+0 ft

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+3|Sneak Attack +3d6, Blend 12||
+10 ft

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+3|Eagle Vision|
Skilled|
+10 ft

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+4|Sneak Attack +4d6, Deadly Strike||
+10 ft

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+6|
+4|Sidestep 2/enc, Counter, Agile (+4)|
Experienced|
+10 ft

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+6|
+5|Sneak Attack +5d6||
+10 ft

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+7|
+5|Blend 8, Blend Augmentation|
Adept|
+20 ft

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+7|
+5|Sneak Attack +6d6, Imp. Uncanny Dodge||
+20 ft

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+6|Sidestep 3/enc, Agile (+6)||
+20 ft

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+6|Sneak Attack +7d6|
Shadow|
+20 ft

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+9|
+7|Defense Break||
+20 ft

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+9|
+7|Blend 6, Sneak Attack +8d6||
+30 ft

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+7|Sidestep 4/enc, Counter Kill, Agile (+8)|
Master|
+30 ft

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+8|Sneak Attack +9d6||
+30 ft

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+8|||
+30 ft

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+9|Sneak Attack +10d6||
+30 ft

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+9|Blend 3, Sidestep 5/enc, Agile (+10)|
Grandmaster|
+40 ft[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies - A white clad is proficient in all simple weapons, plus the short sword, long sword, short bow, and hidden blade. She is proficient with light armor, but not shields.

Note: If at any point you gain a feat for free and you already possess that feat, you may pick any other feat for which you meet the prerequisites.

AC Bonus (Ex) - A white clad adds her WIS modifier to her AC as long as she is wearing light or no armor, is unencumbered, and is not using a shield. This AC bonus applies to touch attacks and when the white clad is flat-footed. She loses this bonus if she is immobilized or helpless.

Blend (Ex) - The white clad has an uncanny ability to blend in with crowds and vanish into them, appearing as one of the ordinary people. When in or near a crowd of creatures (defined as 15 or more people within 10 feet of the white clad), the white clad can make a Hide check to melt away into the crowd and make their escape.
The general attitude of the crowd can help or harm the white clad, as determined below. The number modifier applies to the white clad's Hide Check:
{table=head]Crowd Attitude|Bonus/Drawback
Helpful|+2, can wield a weapon
Friendly|+2
Indifferent|+0
Unfriendly|-5
Hostile|Cannot Blend[/table]
The white clad cannot Blend if she is wielding a weapon, unless the crowd is Helpful.
This hide check is opposed by the Sense Motive check (instead of a Spot check) of any who wish to see/find her inside the crowd.
The amount of people needed to Blend is based on the number of class levels the white clad has. See the table below:
{table=head]Level|# Needed
1|16
5|12
10|8
15|6
20|3[/table]
(Thanks, Temotei!)

Sneak Attack (Ex)
If a white clad can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Basically, any time the white clad’s target would be denied his Dexterity bonus to AC (whether he actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the white clad flanks the target, the white clad’s attack deals extra damage. The extra damage is +1d6 at 1st level and an addition 1d6 every two levels thereafter. Should the white clad score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. (See Table 8-8: Attack Roll Modifiers, page 132, in the Player’s Handbook for combat situations in which the white clad flanks an opponent or the opponent loses his Dexterity bonus to AC).
Ranged Attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. The white clad can’t strike with deadly accuracy from beyond that range.
With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, the white clad can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty, because she must make optimal use of her weapon in order to execute a sneak attack. (See Subdual Damage, page 134, Player’s Handbook).
A white clad can only sneak attack a living creature with a discernible anatomy—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The white clad must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. The white clad cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment (see table 8-10: Concealment, page 133, Player’s Handbook) or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.


White Creed
The white clad follow a personal code, which consists of three tenets:

Never kill or bring excessive harm to an innocent.
Hide in plain sight
Never compromise the brotherhood.

All white clads must follow this code if they wish to remain in the order. Tenets #1 and #3 must be followed at all times - if you break them, you can no longer gain levels as a white clad until you have atoned and they accept you back into their ranks. Tenet #2 is more about not advertising your presence to your target, so if a white clad is seen before her attack, there is no consequence - unless she intentionally drew attention to herself, in which case it is as though she broke #1 or #3.
If a white clad breaks one or more tenets as described above, and no one observes her doing so (or lives to tell the tale), she is not punished - the Order does not know what happened. However, the Order prides itself on obtaining information from many sources, of many types. Word will eventually filter back about what she has done, unless she has done it in total secrecy.

In addition, as part of being in the order, the white clad is presented with a wrist blade custom-made for her. This blade straps to the underside of either wrist via a bracer (traditionally her left) and is uses the weapon statistics of a dagger (only with a range increment of -, as it cannot effectively be thrown). She cannot be disarmed of this weapon. Drawing this weapon is a free action, as is sheathing it.

Rank
Note: If you wish to lower the power of the white clad, removing the character benefits of the rank system is the easiest and best way to do so. This also has the benefit of placing the white clad out of their time period or area, such as if the organization has vanished and they are just learning the teachings or lessons of the Order.
In other words, if you want to make the class less powerful, go ahead and remove the rank system entirely, or fiddle with it to your heart's content. Obviously, putting more work into designing and using the Order will make these benefits less arbitrary and more realistic. It is always, however, up to the DM.
Throughout the career of a white clad, she will be ranked based on her abilities. In order to do so, she will be presented with tasks in which she may choose to complete at any time. Completing these tasks will grant bonus abilities as shown on the table below.
A white clad must meet all prerequisites for a task in order to undertake and complete it. If a white clad completes a task before that task is available, it does not count toward her rank.
If a white clad fails a rank task, she may try again a full day later (the next night, if it is night, or the next day, if it is day).
{table=head]Rank|Prerequisite|Task|Benefit

Initiate|White Clad level 1|-|Dodge
Novice|White Clad level 2, Initiate|Track|Urban Tracking
Apprentice|White Clad level 4, Novice|Rooftop Race|Roofwalker
Skilled|White Clad level 6, Apprentice|Escape|Animal Companion, Grab Break
Experienced |White Clad level 8, Skilled|Pursuit|Improved Overrun
Adept |White Clad level 10, Experienced|Stealth Kill|Last Words
Shadow|White Clad level 13, Adept|Obstacle|Roof-Jumper
Master|White Clad level 16, Shadow|Assassination|Wrong Target
Grandmaster|White Clad level 20, Master|Destabilize Region|Deadly Strike 3/enc., Defense Break (-3)[/table]

Initiate Assassin - The white clad has been officially initiated into the Order, her training completed. She gains the Dodge feat for free.
Novice Assassin - The white clad must successfully track a hiding subject down however she wishes (DC 14 Gather Information check, 3 hours required). Should she succeed, she advances another rank and gains the Urban Tracker ability (detailed below).
Apprentice Assassin - The white clad must win in a race across city rooftops against another white clad equal to her level (pass over half of 1d4 Climb, 1d2 Balance, 1d4+1 Jump, and 1 Tumble check, all DC 15). Should she succeed, she gets the Roofwalker feat for free, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
Skilled Assassin - The white clad must escape imprisonment. This involves escaping rope bindings (DC 20 Escape Artist), finding a lockpick (DC 15 Search), opening the jail cell lock (break or DC 20 Open Lock), sneaking past 1d6 guards (Opposed Spot/Listen vs. the white clad's Hide/Move Silently, the guards have a +5 total modifier), and escaping the actual premises (if the holding place is a place with high walls and/or other obstacles). If she is not willing or able to be imprisoned by local authorities, the Order provides an opportunity for this rank test. Should she succeed, she gains an eagle companion, as detailed below.
Experienced Assassin - The white clad must successfully pursue a target running through the city streets and capture them by whatever means she wishes. She gains the Improved Overrun feat for free, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. In addition, she gets Grab Break, as detailed below.
Adept Assassin - The white clad must successfully track and assassinate a guild-assigned target without alerting the target to their presence. Should she succeed, she gains the ability Last Words, as detailed below.
Shadow Assassin - The white clad must complete a physically challenging obstacle course on the rooftops of a city (as the Apprentice Assassin trial, only the DCs are increased by 10). Should she succeed, she gains the Roof-Jumper feat for free, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
Master Assassin - The white clad must perform a public, high-profile assassination against a well-known figure or noble who is oppressing those less fortunate. Should she succeed, she gains the ability Wrong Target, as detailed below.
Grandmaster Assassin - The white clad must cause a political upheaval of some kind. This includes, but is not limited to, causing a revolution, inciting mass riots, assassinating the entire established political structure, and/or establishing a major branch of the Order. Should she succeed, the white clad advances to her final rank. She is a true master of the arts of the white clad. The AC penalty from her Defense Break increases to -3 and she can use Deadly Strike up 3 times in a encounter.

Urban Tracker (Ex) - The white clad can track down the location of missing persons or wanted individuals within communities.
To find out information about an individual or group, such as their location and/or actions, the white clad makes a Gather Information check. The DC of the check is calculated using the tables below, and the check time takes 1d4 hours.
Succeeding on a single check gives her the target's approximate location (within 60 feet) at that time. If she beats the DC by 5 or more, she can know where the target will be (within 60 feet) anytime within the next 6 hours. Succeeding on two additional checks makes your knowledge of that target "Familiar". These two additional checks take 1d6 hours each.
If you fail a Gather Information check, you can retry after 1 hour. If you fail by 5 or more, the target knows someone is asking about them, and the target is now "lying low", if they weren't already. The DM should consider the appropriate consequences for the target becoming aware that someone is looking for them.

{table=head]Community Size(1)|DC
Thorp, hamlet, or village|5
Small or large town|10
Small or large city|15
Metropolis|20[/table]
(1)See page 137 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.
{table=head]Conditions|DC Modifier
Every three creatures in the group being sought|-1
Every 24 hours party has been missing/sought(1)|+1
Tracked party “lies low”|+5
Tracked party matches community’s primary racial demographic(2)|+2
Tracked party does not match community’s primary or secondary racial demographic|-2
No knowledge of the target (never heard of them)|+5
Secondhand knowledge (heard of them and/or target is a noble)(3)|+2
Firsthand knowledge (have met them and/or high-ranking public official)|+0
Familiar (know them well and/or studied them extensively|+2[/table]
(1)This modifier does not apply to a guild assassination assignment.
(2)See Racial Demographics, page 139 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.
(3)This is the usual modifier for a guild assassination assignment.
You can cut the time in half (1d2 hours, or 1d3 hours for Familiarity checks), but you take a -5 to the check, and you may receive inaccurate information (if you fail the DC by 5 or more).

Animal Companion (Ex) - The white clad gains an eagle animal companion when she achieves Skilled rank, and her effective druid level is 3rd. It knows the following tricks: Come, Fetch, Seek, Stay, Deliver, Receive, Attack, Down. Deliver and Receive allow the eagle to send and receive messages and packages (up to 29 lbs) to a destination of the white clad's choice that the eagle has been to before. This eagle can fly up to 64 miles in a day while carrying a message/package.

Grab Break (Ex) - The white clad becomes particularly adept at escaping from grabs. She gets a +4 bonus to checks made to escape a grapple (including Escape Artist checks).

Last Words (Ex) - The white clad that has achieved Adept rank gains the ability to preserve their opponent's life for a small amount of time after the killing blow has been struck. If a white clad succeeds on a death attack against an opponent or brings her opponent to between 0 and -10 HP, she can choose to instead instantly stabilize the opponent and allow them to speak as though conscious. The opponent can perform no other actions.
At any point past this, the white clad can perform a coup-de-grace as a standard action on the opponent.

Wrong Target (Ex) - Everyone makes mistakes, but a white clad that has achieved Master rank knows how to undo her own. If a white clad succeeds on a death attack against an opponent or brings them to below 0 HP, she can undo her attack as a standard action on her next turn. The opponent is restored to their state exactly as it was before the white clad's attack, including HP, conditions (i.e. blindness), and position, but the opponent knows they were attacked and came within an inch of death.


Uncanny Dodge (Ex) - Starting at 2nd level, a white clad can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If the white clad already has uncanny dodge from another class, she instead gains Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Eagle's Instinct (Ex) - A white clad of 3rd level or higher can adapt to her surroundings with almost unbelievable fluidity. She adds a +1 bonus to Balance, Climb, Jump, Move Silently, and Tumble. This bonus increases by +1 every three levels (6, 9, 12, and 15) to a maximum of +5 at 15th level or her INT modifier, whichever is lower (minimum 1).

Sidestep (Ex) - At 4th level, a white clad has learned enough to anticipate some enemy attacks. During her turn, the white clad replaces her standard action with a preparation - this involves positioning her weapon, studying the enemy, and calling her defensive maneuvers into mind. She cannot attack and prepare during the same turn. Her other actions remain unaffected. Until the beginning of her next turn, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the white clad, she makes a Reflex Save vs the opponent's melee attack roll (from here on, this particular Reflex Save will be called a Sidestep check). If she succeeds this check, she takes an immediate 5-foot step and the attack misses. If she fails this check, she is hit and takes damage as normal, and a use of Sidestep is expended.
If no one attacks her until her next turn, the use of Sidestep is not expended.
A white clad can use this ability once per encounter at 4th level and then an additional time per encounter every 4 levels after (8, 12, 16, 20). She can only use this once per round.


Agile (Ex) - At 4th level, the white clad becomes very quick on her feet. She gains a +2 bonus to all Sidestep checks. This bonus increases by 2 at every 4 levels thereafter (8, 12, 16, 20).

Fast Movement (Ex) - At 5th level, the white clad gains a bonus to her land movement speed. This bonus increases at 10th level and every 5 levels thereafter. The White Clad loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor, when carrying a medium or heavy load, or when moving while hidden.

Eagle Vision (Sp) - A white clad has a sixth sense about who her friends, enemies, and targets are. At 6th level, she can activate this ability to make a single Sense Motive check as a free action on every person within line of sight (DC = opponent's hit dice + CHA modifier). Succeeding on this check against a person means she knows their attitude towards her.
If she is actively seeking a target, and she succeeds on her check against him, this ability allows her to positively identify her target.
She can use this ability Wis modifier + 1/2 white clad levels times per day.

Deadly Strike (Ex) - At 7th level, the white clad has learned to capitalize on the element of surprise, striking opponents quickly and aiming for one-hit kills.
Once per encounter, if an opponent is flat-footed and the white clad succeeds on a melee attack against her opponent, she can make a check: 1d20 + the white clad's INT modifier + her white clad class levels vs. 10 + the opponent's hit dice. If the opponent has more hit dice than the white clad, the DC for this check increases by 4. If she succeeds, the attack is considered a Death Attack (If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save [DC 10 + ½ her white clad class levels + the white clad's INT modifier] against the kill effect, he dies. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack).
If you use this ability against an opponent who is not flat-footed, before your attack, you can make an immediate feint attempt as a free action. If this attempt succeeds, the opponent is considered flat-footed, and you follow the rules as above.
Against non-humanoid targets, the white clad must succeed on a relevant DC 15 Knowledge check to remember or discern vital points in their anatomy to make the class check and subsequent Death Attack. If the white clad is unable to make this check because they are not trained in the relevant Knowledge, anyone trained in that skill can make the check and inform the white clad in lieu of the white clad's own check as a free action, even if it is not their turn.

Counter (Ex) - At 8th level, a white clad has learned enough to block and strike back at opponents. When a white clad succeeds on a Sidestep check, she can choose to counter-attack instead of making a 5-foot step. She can make a single melee attack as an immediate action to interrupt an attack from the opponent. If her attack succeeds, the opponent is hit with her counter-attack, takes damage as normal, and can take no more standard actions (including attack actions) that turn, even if he took a full-attack action that turn.

Blend Augmentation (Ex) - At 10th level, the white clad has learned to move quickly, yet remain unnoticed. Her Blend ability is augmented: she can now move her full speed without suffering the -5 penalty to Hide checks, nor does she suffer the -10 penalty for hiding during a brief distraction.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex) - A white clad of 11th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies a rogue/white clad the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
For the purposes of determining rogue levels required to flank the character, the enemy's white clad class levels stack with rogue levels (if the enemy has them).

Defense Break (Ex) - At 14th level, a white clad's attacks become almost overwhelming. When a white clad attacks an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, if she attacked that same opponent during her previous round, that opponent take a -1 penalty to their AC against her attack. This effect is not cumulative - an opponent can only lose a maximum of 1 AC to this ability. This ability can apply to up to her Dex modifier in opponents (minimum of 1).

Counter Kill (Ex) - At 16th level, the white clad has mastered the art of countering. Whenever you pass a Sidestep check, she can forgo the 5-foot step and the single melee attack and instead pick one of the following options:
If she is currently wielding a long sword, she makes a single melee attack and can make an immediate trip attempt as if she had the Improved Trip feat. This counts as tripping with a weapon.
If she is currently wielding a short sword, she makes a single melee attack as a free action. The opponent is considered flat-footed for this attack. Then, she makes a Tumble check (DC 15). If she passes the Tumble check, she tumbles around the opponent, ending in a different square than she started in (moving a total of less than her base land speed, even if she already moved this round), and makes another free melee attack. The opponent is considered flat-footed for this second attack.
If she is using the hidden blade, she makes a Sleight of Hand check vs. her opponents Sense Motive check. If she succeeds on the Sleight of Hand check, her attack is considered a Death Attack (see Deadly Strike, above). If her check fails, the opponent is considered flat-footed for her melee attack.
If she is wielding a ranged weapon, she can make an immediate ranged attack against the opponent. This attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This attack is considered a ranged touch attack, and the opponent is also considered flat-footed for this attack.
If she is unarmed, she makes an immediate unarmed attack. This attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity and the opponent is considered flat-footed for this attack. This attack is considered a Death Attack, with a modification: If the opponent fails their Fortitude Save vs her Death Attack, the opponent does not die - instead, the opponent is unconscious for 1d4 hours.
If she is wielding any other weapon, her opponent is considered flat-footed for the counter attack.
If she is wielding any two of the weapons described above at the same time, she follows the rules for whichever weapon is in her main hand.

Siosilvar
2009-11-22, 10:59 PM
Initial thoughts:

Ranking is interesting.

Blend should start out requiring 8 people, at the very least, then drop by 2 every 5 levels thereafter.

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-23, 09:56 AM
We figure the ranking system will provide a chance for those who wish to devote more time to the class to get more rewards. It's not necessary, but it's useful and gives several cool bonuses if you stick with it.

The Blend issue was brought up before, so you think making it:


Blend 8 - 1
Blend 6 - 5
Blend 4 - 10
Blend 2 - 15
Blend 0 - 20


...would work better?

Temotei
2009-11-23, 01:55 PM
Eight people in a five foot space is tough to pull off. Maybe you can redefine "crowd." My recommendation for the ability would be to base it off of ten foot spaces.

{table=head]Level|Crowd
1|16
5|12
10|8
15|6
20|4[/table]

Even if you are extremely experienced (like Altaïr), you still have to find a "crowd," so to speak.

EDIT: I'll be back for grammar and spelling errors, if I find any. You can count on it. :smallwink:

DracoDei
2009-11-23, 08:55 PM
I think blend should be limited to NON-ENEMIES for the count, and perhaps you shouldn't be able to have a weapon out... not sure how the game worked, but the idea of hiding by means of charging into a bunch of enemies doesn't seem right. I could see the game allowing you to have a weapon out, but loosing that would be an acceptable thing to me for the sake of translating to a different setting/system.

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-23, 09:00 PM
I think blend should be limited to NON-ENEMIES for the count, and perhaps you shouldn't be able to have a weapon out... not sure how the game worked, but the idea of hiding by means of charging into a bunch of enemies doesn't seem right. I could see the game allowing you to have a weapon out, but loosing that would be an acceptable thing to me for the sake of translating to a different setting/system.

Altiar had a tendancy to wear a belt of weapons, (even when trying to blend in) which I allways found amusing.
/offtopic

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-23, 09:44 PM
I think blend should be limited to NON-ENEMIES for the count, and perhaps you shouldn't be able to have a weapon out... not sure how the game worked, but the idea of hiding by means of charging into a bunch of enemies doesn't seem right. I could see the game allowing you to have a weapon out, but loosing that would be an acceptable thing to me for the sake of translating to a different setting/system.

Hmm, okay. That's actually what we had in mind, with the non-enemies thing.

The concept we were trying to get across was of this character just melting into the crowd, which wasn't really trying to help him blend - they were just there as distractions. It's how the game worked, especially the second one. If you wander into a group of 4 or more people, your character becomes "invisible" to the guards, because you look like you belong.

Making it restricted to non-enemies was something that was implied, but not stated.

As for weapons, I also agree - in the games, if you have a weapon out, the crowd parts away from you, or even runs away from you - and when I'm done this reply, I'll edit it some to reflect that.

What do you think about the number of people, though?

Edit: Right, it's done. Take a looksee, please.


Altiar had a tendancy to wear a belt of weapons, (even when trying to blend in) which I allways found amusing.

Yeah, that was always a bit silly - I suspect it's why they reworked the Blend mechanic for the second game.

Hiest, monkey
2009-11-23, 10:02 PM
I would like to open by complementing the terrific implementation of several different class abilities, and excellent homebrewing of some new ones. I really like this class. One nitpick: it's long, but insignificant in perspective.

I'm not a fan of your alignment restrictions/alignment fluff.
The Assassins (or whatever bizzare arabic transliteration the interwobs are using) are very lawful: part of the reason that Altair has so many issues at the beginning of the game.

They may be sneaks, but they are an extremely organized group, with strict requirements on the means by which the assasins accomplish their goal:


They have a complex ranking system that controls everything from the weapons they use, to the techniques they are taught.
They work towards a rigid and unchanging goal at all times.
Their lifestyle prohibits excess and selfishness.
They kill targets, for heavens sake, because their master told them, and not because of an individual desire.
Any step away from total faith and devotion is punishable by anything from pimp-slap to death.

Disobeying laws and killing dictators is not,nessicarily, Chaotic. Neither is sneaking or attacking an enemy form behind. Using poison or causing riots would be, but that's not the Assassins' style. They simply appeal to a different, and more complex code of laws.

Altair, at the start of the game is CN bordering on CE (using the death of others and blatant disregard for his code to advance himself). This meshes much more poorly than his devotion to the code and overall goodwill at the end of the game, Actions that are clearly more Lawful Good (or at least Neutral Good).

This is the same as a Paladin disobeying the laws in an demon controled territory (as an exagerated example). I think you're confusing Lawful with ten foot rectum-pole Paladininess (technically not even the correct behavior for a paladin).

But I could be interpreting the alignments wrong.

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-23, 11:20 PM
Thanks for the compliments - we really worked hard on this trying to make it all come together.

As for your addressed concern, the alignment issues:

You do have a good point.

The impression I got from the games of the Assassin order is that they, while an organized system devoted to a higher cause, act against established order in many ways. They believe in free will and an individual system of beliefs, saying each person should choose their own path.

That's why we decided that they cannot be lawful - simply put, they do not tolerate any established society that enforces a system of oppression upon the people. They wish to rid the world of these systems and create a far more free one.

However, your point does stand - they are lawful within the confines of their own organization, and your point of them being more along the lines of rectum-pole Paladins is valid. Thus, having them be lawful to their own code is still lawful.

I'll make an addendum:

Alignment
White Clad are nearly always good-aligned. Depending on how they feel personally, they may be neutral good or chaotic good - a lawful alignment does not mesh well with the White Clad ideals. True neutral White Clads are rare, as are chaotic neutral ones, but the alignment can work with the creed, though the relationship is strained.
The White Clad are a diverse bunch. They run the full law/chaos spectrum - though they are devoted to ridding their world of oppressive systems and encourage freedom, they have a strict set of rules they must act by and are an established organization with severe consequences for disobeying and a very set hierarchy.
Therefore, a White Clad is lawful not towards the local law, but to the White Clad law. In most cases, this does mesh rather well with the local laws, but the White Clad is not afraid to disagree or break the local law in favor of their Creed.
The most common White Clad alignment is usually Neutral Good. Chaotic Good and Lawful Good are also widespread.
True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral can also work, but it is a strained relationship due to their Creed and emphasized lack of personal profit/notoriety. Lawful Neutral is a fitting alignment as well.
Very, very few White Clad are evil - smart evil types can disguise their intentions, but the organization is beholden to a higher ideal than personal greed and motivation for power. This tends to weed out those who would use the White Clad techniques and skills for personal gain.

Does that work any better?

Hiest, monkey
2009-11-24, 09:52 PM
I appologize for taking forever to respond.
Yes, with that addendum it does fit the game more.
Thanks for taking my opinion into account!

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-24, 10:30 PM
It's been changed on the main class details up above.

Thanks for your input!

Temotei
2009-11-24, 11:05 PM
First of all, don't capitalize the class name when it's not in a header, at the head of a table, or in the title of your thread. Ability names should also not be capitalized, except when they're in a header or in the title of the thread.


Intelligence determines several of the White Clad’s knowledge of her surroundings. Dexterity provides an avid defense against her enemies as well as mobility when moving through difficult terrain. Wisdom governs her judgment and insight in battle and movement. Charisma enhances her ability to gather information about her targets and interrogate her subjects.

That first sentence is poorly constructed. I recommend changing it to "Intelligence determines the white clad's knowledge of her surroundings." I also question the wisdom (:smallbiggrin:) in saying Wisdom governs movement in battle. I don't know how being wise or more alert could speed someone's movement. [Never mind--I found the ability below.]

I like the revised version for the alignment section.


Class Skills
Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Fixed.


Weapon Proficiencies - A White Clad is proficient in all simple weapons, plus the short sword, long sword, short bow, and hidden blade.

This should be combined with Armor Proficiencies, as in the PHB.


Note: If at any point you gain a feat for free and you already posses that feat, you may pick any other feat for which you meet the prerequisites.

The bold word should be possess.


AC Bonus (Ex) - From 1st level on, a White Clad adds her WIS modifier to her AC as long as she is wearing light or no armor, is unencumbered, and is not using a shield. This AC bonus applies to touch attacks and when the White Clad is flat-footed. She loses this bonus if she is immobilized or helpless.

The "From 1st level on..." part is unneeded. I recommend cutting that. Wis should only have the "W" capitalized.


Blend (Ex) (edited, now w/ table) - Starting at 1st level, the White Clad has an uncanny ability to blend in with crowds and vanish into them, appearing as one of the ordinary people. When in or near a crowd of creatures (defined as 4 or more people within 5 squares), the White Clad can make a Hide check to melt away into the crowd and make their escape.

Get rid of "Starting at 1st level..." Every level except first level should have a phrase like that, according to the Player's Handbook formats.


White Creed
The White Clad follow a personal code, which consists of three tenants:
1. Never harm an innocent with your blade
2. Hide in plain sight
3. Never compromise the brotherhood.
All White Clads must follow this code if they wish to remain in the order. Tenants #1 and #3 must be followed at all times - if you break them, you can no longer gain levels as a White Clad until you have atoned and they accept you back into their ranks. Tenant #2 is more about not advertising your presence to your target, so if a White Clad is seen before her attack, there is no consequence - unless she intentionally drew attention to herself, in which case it is as though she broke #1 or #3.

It's "tenets," not "tenants." What if the white clad breaks one of the tenets, but is undetected while doing so, and is able to get away with it?


This blade straps to the underside of her left wrist via a bracer and is treated as a dagger for attack and damage purposes.

Perhaps allow it to be either hand.


To find the trail of an individual or to follow it to 1 hour requires a Gather Information check. You must make another Gather Information check every hour of the search, as well as each time the trail becomes difficult to follow, such as when it moves to a difficult area of the town.

The bold word should be for.


A character with 5 ranks in Knowledge (local) gains a +2 bonus on the Gather Information check to use this ability.

Is this in addition to the synergy bonus granted by having 5 ranks in Knowledge (local)?


Apprentice Assassin - The White Clad must pursue and capture a feeling suspect or criminal, or must catch someone on a specially prepared course if a criminal or suspect is not readily available (A series of acrobatic checks). Should she succeed, she gets the Improved Overrun feat for free, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. In addition, she gets Deadly Aim, as detailed below.

I believe you meant to put fleeing down in place of the bold word.


Eagle's Instinct (Ex) - A White Clad of 3rd level or higher can adapt to her surroundings with almost unbelievable fluidity. She adds her Wisdom modifier to her Balance, Climb, Jump, Move Silently, and Tumble checks.

I'd change it to be "At 3rd level, a white clad..." It works as it is. I'm just saying...that's how I'd do it. :smalltongue:


Eagle Vision (Sp) - A White Clad has a sixth sense about who her friends, enemies, and targets are. She can use Detect Evil at-will up to her WIS modifier + 1/2 her White Clad class level of times per day.

Don't capitalize Wis. You should reword the last sentence to say "She can use detect evil Wis modifier + 1/2 white clad levels times per day."


Counter (Ex) - ...She can make a single melee attack as an immediate interrupt against the opponent. If her attack succeeds, the opponent is hit with her counter-attack, takes damage as normal, and can take no more standard actions (including attack actions) that turn, even if he took a full-attack action that turn.

I think you mean "She can make a single melee attack as an immediate action to interrupt an attack from the opponent."


Counter Kill (Ex) - ...If she is currently wielding a long sword, she makes a single melee attack and can make an immediate trip attempt as if she had the Improved Trip feat. This counts as tripping with a weapon.

If she is currently wielding a short sword, she makes a Tumble check (DC 15). If she fails the Tumble, she makes a single free melee attack, and the opponent is considered flat-footed for this attack. If she passes the Tumble check, she tumbles around the opponent, ending in a different square than she started in (moving a total of less than her base land speed, even if she already moved this round), and makes another free melee attack. The opponent is considered flat-footed for this second attack.

If she is using the hidden blade, she makes a Slight of Hand check vs her opponents Sense Motive check. If she succeeds on the Sleight of Hand check, her attack is considered a Death Attack (see Deadly Strike, above). If her check fails, the opponent is considered flat-footed for her melee attack.

The bold text should be Sleight of Hand. There should be a period after "vs."

If she is unarmed, she makes an immediate unarmed attack. This attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity and the opponent is considered flat-footed for this attack. This attack is considered a Death Attack, with a modification: If the opponent fails their Fortitude Save vs her Death Attack, the opponent does not die - instead, the opponent is unconscious for 1d4 hours.

If she is wielding any other weapon, her opponent is considered flat-footed for the counter attack.

If she is wielding any two of the weapons described above at the same time, she follows the rules for whichever weapon is in her main hand.

I like the options you provided. Maybe you could make a bow counter kill. That would be interesting. Shove an arrow up their...:smallamused:

Nice class, and I found very few errors grammatically. I like it. :smallbiggrin:

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-25, 01:46 AM
Thanks Temotei. I went back and corrected/clarified almost everything. Changing all the White Clad to white clad will have to wait a bit, but I'll get it done.

Also, I added in a bow/crossbow counter kill. Take a look, see if it works/doesn't:

If she is wielding a bow or crossbow, she can make an immediate ranged attack against the opponent. This attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This attack is considered a ranged touch attack, and the opponent is also considered flat-footed for this attack.

Thanks again for the feedback!

Temotei
2009-11-25, 02:13 AM
Thanks Temotei. I went back and corrected/clarified almost everything. Changing all the White Clad to white clad will have to wait a bit, but I'll get it done.

I understand. That's a lot to change in one sitting. :smallamused:


Also, I added in a bow/crossbow counter kill. Take a look, see if it works/doesn't:

If she is wielding a bow or crossbow, she can make an immediate ranged attack against the opponent. This attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This attack is considered a ranged touch attack, and the opponent is also considered flat-footed for this attack.

I like it. :smallbiggrin: It allows those ranged attackers to get in on the action too.


Thanks again for the feedback!

Of course. I love to help. :smallsmile:

Simba
2009-11-25, 02:37 AM
Is it intentional that white clads can strangle or poison inocents at will as long as they are not using their blades to do the deed? Just asking, I don't know the background.

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-25, 02:42 AM
Is it intentional that white clads can strangle or poison inocents at will as long as they are not using their blades to do the deed? Just asking, I don't know the background.

White clads do not use poison or strangulation. I should probably mention that - I made the mistake of assuming that everyone knows them as they are in Assassin's Creed.

No, "blade" here is not literal - it means that they shall never kill an innocent in any way. Their primary weapon is the hidden bade, hence the language seen in the Creed.

I'll make a note to fix that. Thanks, Simba.

Edit: Done. Check the fluff for the update and the Creed for the reworking.

Also, Temotei, we reworked the Blend mechanics according to your suggestion, with a small change - level 20 requires 3 people, not 4. My co-writer said he liked 3 better. =P

Simba
2009-11-25, 02:56 AM
I should probably mention that - I made the mistake of assuming that everyone knows them as they are in Assassin's Creed.

This is a D&D base class so people will do anything in their power to corrupt it as long as DMs let them. Fact of life :)

So you should write down those assumtions somewhere in order to prevent misuse of what I consider a well done and very stylish new class.

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-25, 03:00 AM
This is a D&D base class so people will do anything in their power to corrupt it as long as DMs let them. Fact of life :)

So you should write down those assumtions somewhere in order to prevent misuse of what I consider a well done and very stylish new class.

Yeah, you got that right. Pesky players.

I'll redo the write-up on the Order of the White Clad there at the beginning in the "requisite fluff" section. Seems some clarification is needed.

And thanks for the compliments, we worked hard on it!

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-26, 11:48 AM
Hey guys, one more thing:

My friend and I decided to make a variant of the class. Not all campaigns will be suited to city life, obviously, so we decided to make a more rural-oriented version of the class. See below:

The Outsider
I will find you, come hell or high water.
The outsider is a special rank inside the Order of the White Clad.
Not all enemies are found inside city walls. Sometimes, the White Clad must find their enemy in the world, or perhaps track down a fleeing target who got wind of their plans to assassinate him. In that case, the white clad dispatch an outsider.
Outsiders are specially trained to navigate in the outside world. They do not do their best work in city walls or urban cityscapes - instead, they feel much more at ease in a forest or a landscape.
Class Skills: Remove Knowledge(local), Open Lock, and Gather Information from the white clad's class skill list. Add Knowledge (nature), Survival, and Knowledge (geography) to the class skill list
Class Features:
An outsider has all of the white clad class features, except as noted below:
Camouflage: The outsider does not gain the Blend ability. Instead, she gains the Camouflage ability (as the 13th-level ranger ability) at 1st level.
Rank: Use the table below:
{table=head]Rank|Prerequisite|Task|Benefit

Seed|White Clad level 1|-|Dodge, Hidden Blade
Leaf|White Clad level 2, Seed|Track|Track, Natural(forest)
Shadowed|White Clad level 4, Leaf|Pursuit|Improved Overrun, Deadly Aim (+1), Natural(underground)
Field|White Clad level 6, Shadowed|Woodland Obstacle|Woodland Stride, Grab Break, Natural(field/grassland)
Dune|White Clad level 8, Field|Stealth Kill|Agile (+1), Natural(desert)
River|White Clad level 10, Dune|Observation|Deadly Aim (+2), Natural(aquatic)
Peak|White Clad level 13, River|Vanish|Hide In Plain Sight, Natural(mountain)
Storm|White Clad level 16, Peak|Assassination|Agile (+2), Adapt
Wander|White Clad level 20, Storm| ? |Agile (+3), Deadly Aim (+3), Improved Defense Break[/table]

Seed - The outsider has been officially initiated into the Order, her training completed. She gains the Dodge feat for free. In addition, she is presented with a wrist blade custom-made for her. This blade straps to the underside of either wrist via a bracer (traditionally her left) and is treated as a dagger for attack and damage purposes. She cannot be disarmed of this weapon. "Drawing" this blade is a free action, as is "sheathing" it. Every outsider achieves this rank, and the benefits thereof, automatically at 1st level.
Leaf - The outsider must successfully track a hiding subject down however she wishes in a natural area. Should she succeed, she advances another rank and gains the Track feat for free. In addition she gains the Natural ability for forest environments (see below)
Natural (Ex) - The outsider has learned to blend best with her environment and adapt to it instead of making it work for her. She gets a +2 bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks inside the environment specified. The possible environments are Forest, Underground, Field/Grassland, Desert, Aquatic, and Mountain.
Shadowed - The outsider must pursue and capture a feeling suspect or criminal, or must catch someone on a specially prepared course if a criminal or suspect is not readily available (A series of acrobatic checks). Should she succeed, she gets the Improved Overrun feat for free, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. In addition, she gets Deadly Aim, as detailed below, and the Natural ability for underground environments.
Deadly Aim: The outsider has an exceptionally steady hand when using thrown weapons. She gets a +1 bonus on all ranged attack rolls when attacking with a thrown simple weapon.
Field - The outsider must navigate an obstacle course made of natural obstacles and difficult terrain in a set time limit. Should she succeed, she gains Woodland Stride (as the 7th-level ranger ability), even if she does not meet the prerequisites. In addition, she gets Grab Break, as detailed below, and the Natural ability for fields/grassland environments.
Grab Break: The outsider becomes particularly adept as escaping from grabs. She gets a +4 bonus to grapple checks made to escape a grapple.
Dune - The outsider must win successfully dispatch a foe in a single move without them being alerted to their presence. Should she succeed, she gains the Agile ability, as detailed below, and the Natural ability for desert environments.
Agile: The outsider becomes very quick on her feet when dodging or countering opponents. She gains a +1 bonus to all Sidestep checks.
River - The outsider must carefully track and observe a target for a week without being detected, taking careful notes as to their habits, locations, and other specific details about them. Should she succeed, her Deadly Aim bonus increases to +2 and she gains the Natural ability for aquatic environments.
Peak - The outsider must complete successfully lose some pursuers inside a natural environment of her choosing. Should she succeed, she gains Hide In Plain Sight (as the 17th-level ranger ability) and the Natural ability for mountain environments.
Storm - The outsider must perform a public, high-profile assassination against a well-known public figure who is oppressing those less fortunate. Should she succeed, her Agile bonus increases to +2 and she gains the Adapt ability, as detailed below.
Adapt: The outsider can fit seamlessly into any environment. She gains a permanent +2 to her Hide and Move Silently checks. These checks stack with the ones provided by the Natural ability. This bonus does not apply to urban environments.
Wanderer - The outsider advances another rank. Her Agile bonus increases to +3, her Deadly Aim bonus increases to +3, and she gains Improved Defense Break, as detailed below.
Improved Defense Break: As the Defense Break ability, only the opponent's AC penalty is now a -3.



An idea my friend presented was to let the player pick what environment they get for natural at each rank-up. Would this work better?

UglyPanda
2009-11-26, 11:54 AM
How does this class operate in a party? Specifically, does the White Code prevent you from having non-assassin teammates?

When you're ambushed by thieves in the middle of a forest, your party members are going to know you did something.

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-26, 12:59 PM
How does this class operate in a party? Specifically, does the White Code prevent you from having non-assassin teammates?

When you're ambushed by thieves in the middle of a forest, your party members are going to know you did something.

In a party, this class can serve quite a few roles in a city area. His skills lend well to navigating the city, knowing who is where, and talking to higher-up nobles. They have connections and knowledge, two big things in a populated area. They can be a more charismatic rogue type, if they choose to focus their skillset there.

In a more practical adventuring sense, they can serve as forward scouts or as an ambush type, or serve the same role as a rogue during combat - help flank opponents and deliver sneak attacks while the opponents are distracted with fighters or other front-line melee classes.

The White Code does not prevent them from having non-assassin teammates. This code governs their own actions, not those of the party members. A white clad could travel with any party, perhaps on an assignment from the guild leader or as part of their information-gathering. They are trained to be political assassins, but that is not their only purpose or function.

Temotei
2009-11-28, 09:51 PM
You still have to change blend in the table.

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-28, 11:42 PM
Ah, okay. Done. Thanks again, Temotei.

Any other comments? If not, I guess this thread is just about finished in terms of revisions and whatnot.

industrious
2009-11-29, 12:23 AM
Still need a Grandmaster trial, and specifics for the others.

Khaeta
2009-11-30, 10:58 AM
This is an awesome, awesome and (I think) well-balanced class. Good job!
I think I need to make a new NPC for my campaign...

ThreadOfFate
2009-11-30, 11:34 AM
Thanks Kopaka!

For game purposes, this class is just about finished. More detail will have to be added to the rank system (as industrious pointed out), but if you want to use this for an NPC, it's complete enough.

I'll come back in about a week or two when finals are finished and complete the class.

Thanks everyone for your help, my friend and I really appreciate all the feedback.

LunarWolfPrime
2009-12-04, 09:15 PM
Man this a is a cool class.
I would love to make a affiliation based off of this bunch and I think these link's may interest you:

Hashshashin (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hashshashin_%28DnD_Class%29)

Hidden Blade (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hidden_Blade_%28DnD_Equipment%29)

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-05, 01:28 AM
Thanks.

We actually have seen those links - it's part of what inspired us to make the class.

That class, though, is...pretty unbalanced. They're basically monks and rogues as a gestalt class with a death attack thrown in that can be used every time the enemy is flatfooted.

We figured a complete rebuild of the class was necessary, so that's what my friend and I did - built it from the ground up based on our own observations.

As for the affiliation, sure. That would be awesome, I'd love to detail (or have detailed, or help detail) the whole organization as it might exist in DND. Let me know. We could just turn this thread into a hub for that sort of thing.

EDIT: The Deadly Strike mechanics have had a balance check, and have thus been reworked. Take a look, tell me what you think, if you feel so inclined (please!).

We're also reworking the Sidestep check bonus from the rank system. That'll show up in the next few days.

ALSO EDIT: I'll be playtesting the class in a one-shot tomorrow. I'll report back with the results.

LunarWolfPrime
2009-12-05, 05:41 PM
Well I came up with the idea of the affiliation after reading this class.
I would like to make one that is designed to be dropped into any dnd camp or HB setting.

An I was seeing it giving some of the same feats as bonus feats with different ranks of the affiliation. An maybe some skill bonus or skill pen decreases.

Give me a little while and I will post one of my previous affilaitions to show you what I mean.

Silver Wolves of Ebberon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95772)

Surrealistik
2009-12-05, 07:09 PM
Don't forget that he should have some sort of continuous Locate Object and Locate Creature effect active.

Temotei
2009-12-05, 07:13 PM
Don't forget that he should have some sort of continuous Locate Object and Locate Creature effect active.

Except then his Gather Information skill loses a lot of its appeal. Plus, I think locate creature is a 5th level spell.

Milskidasith
2009-12-05, 07:28 PM
Because we all know an easily blocked fifth level spell with no combat utility besides finding hiding opponents is so overpowered for a martial class to have. C'mon, it could be a reward for one of the higher ranks, at least.

Temotei
2009-12-05, 07:30 PM
Because we all know an easily blocked fifth level spell with no combat utility besides finding hiding opponents is so overpowered for a martial class to have. C'mon, it could be a reward for one of the higher ranks, at least.

True. But it still gets rid of the use for Gather Information when finding someone, which is just about the main use with this class.

Milskidasith
2009-12-05, 07:39 PM
True. But it still gets rid of the use for Gather Information when finding someone, which is just about the main use with this class.

Not if they have Mind Blank or SR or other immunities to divination up.

You could also make it a gather information check to get locate creature on somebody. That would be the best of both worlds, and considering how eagle vision highlights your assassination targets, it makes sense, too.

Temotei
2009-12-05, 11:47 PM
Not if they have Mind Blank or SR or other immunities to divination up.

You could also make it a gather information check to get locate creature on somebody. That would be the best of both worlds, and considering how eagle vision highlights your assassination targets, it makes sense, too.

That's a really good idea. I vote for that! :smallbiggrin:

Surrealistik
2009-12-05, 11:55 PM
Not if they have Mind Blank or SR or other immunities to divination up.

You could also make it a gather information check to get locate creature on somebody. That would be the best of both worlds, and considering how eagle vision highlights your assassination targets, it makes sense, too.

I love it!

deuxhero
2009-12-05, 11:59 PM
The fluff (a single order) and that the abilities are more of a specialized verison of an existing class (rogue) than entirely their own says this may be fitting more as a prestige class instead of a base class.

That said, I like the idea of rank giving bonus feats. Always nice to have a way to encourage use of less than useful feats.

Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 12:04 AM
The fluff (a single order) and that the abilities are more of a specialized verison of an existing class (rogue) than entirely their own says this may be fitting more as a prestige class instead of a base class.

That said, I like the idea of rank giving bonus feats. Always nice to have a way to encourage use of less than useful feats.

Dread Necromancers and Beguilers are by definition highly specialized, yet they're base classes in their own right.

Oh, by the way, I really think the check to hit with a Death Attack should be 1d20 + DEX mod + class level. It makes so much more sense than adding the WIS mod, as it's a finesse based attack. If you think that's too powerful/synergistic, you can always divide the class level contribution by 2.

Temotei
2009-12-06, 12:23 AM
The fluff (a single order) and that the abilities are more of a specialized verison of an existing class (rogue) than entirely their own says this may be fitting more as a prestige class instead of a base class.

That's like saying a barbarian is a more specialized fighter, so it should be a prestige class.

Fortuna
2009-12-06, 12:30 AM
How does this sound for a Grandmaster trial (Note: I have never played either game, so don't scream at me please). The character must sneak into Hell itself and dispatch a chosen soul to prevent ressurection.

deuxhero
2009-12-06, 12:48 AM
That's like saying a barbarian is a more specialized fighter, so it should be a prestige class.

extra movement and rage/Bonus feats vs sneak attack/slower sneak attack + extra abilities (there are a ton that do the second match up already).

Temotei
2009-12-06, 12:55 AM
extra movement and rage/Bonus feats vs sneak attack/slower sneak attack + extra abilities (there are a ton that do the second match up already).

I'm confused as to what you just said, but I still think this qualifies as a base class. Maybe if it was changed to be something other than a single order, such as an order that was basically so huge it was divided into several parts, it wouldn't be such a problem in your view?

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-06, 02:17 AM
Back from the playtest, kids.

Tested a WC at 9th level, the sheet can be found here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=170581).

The session was, though, mostly dealing with a mostly-abandoned town and some undead, so not much checking of class abilities was had. Another session will be performed soon for more testing.

Please, feel free to use this class for your own games. The more testing, the better.

However, the deadly strike was tested, and that works fine. The change to DEX will be considered.

In addition, the Agile bonus will be moved to the main class and go from +0 at level 1 to +10 at level 20.

Eagle Vision will be reworked to match the game more closely - a detect attitude spell may be custom-made, and the above-suggested combination of using Urban Tracking to find your target will probably be used. Thanks guys, you all rock.

Deadly Strike will have an option to, instead of outright killing the person, drop them down to below 0 and stabilize. The opponent will be helpess, but can still talk. This is to match Altair's ability to speak with his targets before the target dies. You can keep them stabilized for a number of rounds equal to your white clad class level. After you are finished talking or those rounds pass, your target dies.

Rank abilities will be shifted, with the addition of an eagle animal companion (as Druid). This is useful for, primarily, communicating with those above you in the Order and for recon. You will not be able to trade out the eagle for any other animal companion, and your effective druid level is 1/2 your white clad level.

I think that's all...

The nature of the Order will also need some changing - the suggestion of a much larger centralized order that has regional subdivisions, and then city subdivisions, seems to work better. Each city should have at least two people operating there: a local contact who handles the city assignments, and a local assassin.

The contact tasks the assassin with what they need and is often responsible for their further training. These contacts are older white clad who retired from active duty and now do mostly clerical/observational work.

A white clad is tasked to do their assignment when necessary, but for the rest of the time, they hold jobs and have lives like anyone else. My test character was a courier, a job that worked well for his skill set. If necessary, a white clad can be sent to accompany a group and send back regular reports about what they learn. If this assignment takes them from the local area, another white clad comes in to handle the jobs in the city (maybe).

This way, the white clad can either stay in the city if the group does, or journey with them should they leave. There's also the variant, presented above, that the character can take as an alternative.

I think that's it for now. Will post more and update the class accordingly as time goes on.

Your thoughts, guys?

Temotei
2009-12-06, 02:45 AM
Playtesting is the best way to find the balance of a class, but right now, I'm unable to do that. You can, though, so you'll learn more.

By the way, your Hide skill has 13 ranks, when your maximum number of ranks is 12.

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-06, 02:54 AM
Ah. Thanks. It never came up in the session (being spotted, I mean) so I guess I missed it.

Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 11:42 AM
However, the deadly strike was tested, and that works fine. The change to DEX will be considered.

The scaling for DEX seems alright with halved class levels; at level 10, assuming 18 base DEX, 2 points invested in DEX, and a +4 DEX item, you have an average DC of 22-23 vs 20 assuming your opponent has 10 HD. If applying full levels, 27-28 vs 20 assuming your opponent has 10 HD. Given that the target is also entitled to a Fortitude save, I don't see the latter actually being so bad.



Deadly Strike will have an option to, instead of outright killing the person, drop them down to below 0 and stabilize. The opponent will be helpess, but can still talk. This is to match Altair's ability to speak with his targets before the target dies. You can keep them stabilized for a number of rounds equal to your white clad class level. After you are finished talking or those rounds pass, your target dies.

Will you be able to teleport to your target after killing them regardless of your position as per your ability to do so in the game? :P

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-06, 02:48 PM
The scaling for DEX seems alright with halved class levels; at level 10, assuming 18 base DEX, 2 points invested in DEX, and a +4 DEX item, you have an average DC of 22-23 vs 20 assuming your opponent has 10 HD. If applying full levels, 27-28 vs 20 assuming your opponent has 10 HD. Given that the target is also entitled to a Fortitude save, I don't see the latter actually being so bad.

A valid point, but we put it as Wisdom to diversify the class abilities. This method of doing the death attack is specifically linked to the white clad Order, and seeing as wisdom governs many other aspects related to the Order, it should govern this class check as well.

My level 9 character also had the check to this bonus being +12 (9 levels + 3 Wis modifier). Either way, it's about the same, and decreasing the bonus by a guaranteed 10 doesn't mean that your DEX will get up to so high. Compare a level 20 class check vs. a level 20 opponent:

Wis mod, full level: 16 base Wis = +3 modifier. 20 (class level) + 3 Wis mod = +23 vs. 30 DC. Succeed on a 7 or higher.
Dex mod, 1/2 half level: 16 base Dex + 4 ability points + Gloves of +6 Dex = +8 modifier. 10 (1/2 WC level) + 8 Dex mod = +18 vs DC 30. Succeed on 12 or higher. Even if you have a base Dex of 18, you'd need an additional +8 to Dexterity to match the one granted by Wis mod + full level.


The WIS mod + full level ends up on top by a pretty large margin.

That +23 is pretty powerful - you succeed on the class check more often than you would fail. A lot more. However, if you do your job right (i.e. sneakily), you'll be getting the jump on the opponent, meaning your assassination will be a lot easier than having to face your opponent and make your feint check, then the class check, and then hope they fail their Fort save.


Will you be able to teleport to your target after killing them regardless of your position as per your ability to do so in the game? :P

Nah. But we've added in two more Rank bonuses and reassigned the bonuses. You now have the ability to (a) halt death until you've talked with the target and (b) even prevent their death if you've attacked the wrong person...(Assassin's Creed 1 spoilers below)
...like in the final mission to kill Robert de Sade, where you attack the girl instead, and Altair lets her live, even after he's "stabbed" her.

The class has had several changes, so I'll be adding those in within a day or so. I'll make a new post when they're done.

Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 02:54 PM
A valid point, but we put it as Wisdom to diversify the class abilities. This method of doing the death attack is specifically linked to the white clad Order, and seeing as wisdom governs many other aspects related to the Order, it should govern this class check as well.

My level 9 character also had the check to this bonus being +12 (9 levels + 3 Wis modifier). Either way, it's about the same, and decreasing the bonus by a guaranteed 10 doesn't mean that your DEX will get up to so high. Compare a level 20 class check vs. a level 20 opponent:

* Wis mod, full level: 16 base Wis = +3 modifier. 20 (class level) + 3 Wis mod = +23 vs. 30 DC. Succeed on a 7 or higher.
* Dex mod, 1/2 half level: 16 base Dex + 4 ability points + Gloves of +6 Dex = +8 modifier. 10 (1/2 WC level) + 8 Dex mod = +18 vs DC 30. Succeed on 12 or higher. Even if you have a base Dex of 18, you'd need an additional +8 to Dexterity to match the one granted by Wis mod + full level.


The WIS mod + full level ends up on top by a pretty large margin.

That +23 is pretty powerful - you succeed on the class check more often than you would fail. A lot more. However, if you do your job right (i.e. sneakily), you'll be getting the jump on the opponent, meaning your assassination will be a lot easier than having to face your opponent and make your feint check, then the class check, and then hope they fail their Fort save.

I'll be honest. I hate MAD, absolutely completely and totally despise it, and this class has it in spades. CHA, INT, and DEX dependencies, AND WIS. C'mon, that's way too much. DEX, INT/CHA in that order should be sufficient for the purposes of diversification. I really recommend substituting all WIS references with DEX/INT ones as appropriate.

Kuma
2009-12-06, 04:17 PM
you seem to have misunderstood MAD for benifits for having multiple good stats, check giacomo's guide to monks, you aren't penalized for having bad stats, just get bonuses for better than average.:smallamused:

Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 04:56 PM
you seem to have misunderstood MAD for benifits for having multiple good stats, check giacomo's guide to monks, you aren't penalized for having bad stats, just get bonuses for better than average.:smallamused:

I'm pretty sure I have not. 4 key/important stats is almost invariably a bad thing.

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-06, 05:27 PM
I'll be honest. I hate MAD, absolutely completely and totally despise it, and this class has it in spades. CHA, INT, and DEX dependencies, AND WIS. C'mon, that's way too much. DEX, INT/CHA in that order should be sufficient for the purposes of diversification. I really recommend substituting all WIS references with DEX/INT ones as appropriate.

CHA isn't a dependency - you use it for one or two class-specific things only, and in both cases, putting a rank or two in it in lieu of a high CHA will make up for it. WIS controls AC bonus, Eagle's Instinct, Eagle's Vision times per day, and the Class check for Deadly Strike.

Eagle's Instinct makes up for a lower INT score by adding a free bonus to relevant skills. If you have a low INT and low CHA, you'd still be pretty good with a high WIS and DEX - the skill points you'd lose would be compensated from the WIS bonus.

Moving all those traits away from being Wisdom-centered means we would have to replace them with DEX or INT. Replacing EI with your Dex mod would give most people an instant +4 to those skills - pretty powerful at 3rd level. Plus that increase would get larger as they gained more levels, and skills like Balance and Move Silently would get a +2 increase every time the WC's DEX went up by 2. Eagle Vision would be replaced with...INT, I guess, though it doesn't make sense how the WC would instinctively know who his allies and enemies are.

Putting Deadly Strike with the DEX mod means we essentially would have to make it half level, which would make the attack less powerful by a pretty big margin (as seen above).

By having both DEX and WIS as primary stats, the WC makes a choice - DEX controls a lot, but so does WIS. WIS is more class-centric, whereas DEX is more general. Both have advantages.

DEX and WIS are primary, with INT or STR secondary (STR controlling several key skills like Climb and Jump and the all-important attack/damage bonuses), followed by CHA and CON, in no particular order.

I get what you're saying, I do, but I don't think this class requires for 4 stats to all be good. At the least, you need at least 2 to be decent in order to do well.

Maybe we can rework Urban Tracking to use your INT or WIS modifier? That way you won't even need CHA for it.

Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 05:39 PM
CHA isn't a dependency - you use it for one or two class-specific things only, and in both cases, putting a rank or two in it in lieu of a high CHA will make up for it. WIS controls AC bonus, Eagle's Instinct, Eagle's Vision times per day, and the Class check for Deadly Strike.

Gather Information is pretty important to this class. Disguise and Bluff are definitely strong assets too.


Eagle's Instinct makes up for a lower INT score by adding a free bonus to relevant skills. If you have a low INT and low CHA, you'd still be pretty good with a high WIS and DEX - the skill points you'd lose would be compensated from the WIS bonus.

Moving all those traits away from being Wisdom-centered means we would have to replace them with DEX or INT. Replacing EI with your Dex mod would give most people an instant +4 to those skills - pretty powerful at 3rd level. Plus that increase would get larger as they gained more levels, and skills like Balance and Move Silently would get a +2 increase every time the WC's DEX went up by 2. Eagle Vision would be replaced with...INT, I guess, though it doesn't make sense how the WC would instinctively know who his allies and enemies are.

It's not about instinct so much as intellect in this case.


Putting Deadly Strike with the DEX mod means we essentially would have to make it half level, which would make the attack less powerful by a pretty big margin (as seen above).

Wait, why would it be necessary? There are two checks. Even if the 1st is likely to succeed, the opponent still has a good chance of surviving the second, which is INT based. He also retains an appreciable chance to survive the 1st.


By having both DEX and WIS as primary stats, the WC makes a choice - DEX controls a lot, but so does WIS. WIS is more class-centric, whereas DEX is more general. Both have advantages.

DEX and WIS are primary, with INT or STR secondary (STR controlling several key skills like Climb and Jump and the all-important attack/damage bonuses), followed by CHA and CON, in no particular order.

I'd say STR doesn't even register given feats like Agile Athlete that enable you to substitute your DEX for your STR mod on Climb/Jump, and Weapon Finesse. DEX/WIS/INT/CHA/CON/STR seems to be the order, and the WC has compelling uses for everything but STR. That's pretty MADdening

I get what you're saying, I do, but I don't think this class requires for 4 stats to all be good. At the least, you need at least 2 to be decent in order to do well.

The main problem as is, is that if you don't invest in everything, you're missing out substantially on several potent skills and/or class abilities, or just plain survivability.

Maybe we can rework Urban Tracking to use your INT or WIS modifier? That way you won't even need CHA for it.


Disguise and Bluff are still gaps though, and these are highly useful skills.

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-06, 07:36 PM
Disguise and Bluff are still gaps though, and these are highly useful skills.

Your points are valid, but trying to change it as it is now would break the class entirely. The balance of stuff we have going on would be thrown off by making a now-important stat (Wisdom) into not important. Changing something like Deadly Strike to make the class check full level and DEX based would completely make it overpowered - base 16 Dex + 4 ability boosts + Gloves of +6 dex = 26 dex = +8 modifier, making the class check a +28 at level 20 - or a hit on anything except a 1.

Talking it over with the guy who's helping me balance this, we came up with a solution which may work, but we want some feedback:

Deadly Strike will now be entirely INT based. The class check will be (1d20 + white clad level + white clad's INT modifier) vs. (10 + opponent's hit dice).
Eagle's Instinct, instead of being based on your WIS modifier, will start at a +1 to the listed skills at level 3 and increase + 1 every 3 levels to a maximum of your INT modifier. These bonuses will also be considered competence bonuses.
Eagle Vision and the AC bonus will remain WIS based.


This allows the player to choose. Making a white clad with high INT may be more calculating and proactive - the higher skill bonuses and better Deadly Strike reflect this. A white clad with a higher WIS bonus will be more passive and reflective - the more uses of Eagle Vision and a higher AC will show that they prefer to take time to study the people and are more defensive when acting.

This puts more emphasis on a higher INT score while removing some from WIS. This may exacerbate the problem, but we're also trying to change the class at a base level. It's got so many ability dependencies for a reason - trying to make it some other way would break the class. Doing a lot about that MAD would make us have to reconsider the class from the ground-up.

Milskidasith
2009-12-06, 08:13 PM
Your points are valid, but trying to change it as it is now would break the class entirely. The balance of stuff we have going on would be thrown off by making a now-important stat (Wisdom) into not important. Changing something like Deadly Strike to make the class check full level and DEX based would completely make it overpowered - base 16 Dex + 4 ability boosts + Gloves of +6 dex = 26 dex = +8 modifier, making the class check a +28 at level 20 - or a hit on anything except a 1.

Talking it over with the guy who's helping me balance this, we came up with a solution which may work, but we want some feedback:

Deadly Strike will now be entirely INT based. The class check will be (1d20 + white clad level + white clad's INT modifier) vs. (10 + opponent's hit dice).
Eagle's Instinct, instead of being based on your WIS modifier, will start at a +1 to the listed skills at level 3 and increase + 1 every 3 levels to a maximum of your INT modifier. These bonuses will also be considered competence bonuses.
Eagle Vision and the AC bonus will remain WIS based.


This allows the player to choose. Making a white clad with high INT may be more calculating and proactive - the higher skill bonuses and better Deadly Strike reflect this. A white clad with a higher WIS bonus will be more passive and reflective - the more uses of Eagle Vision and a higher AC will show that they prefer to take time to study the people and are more defensive when acting.

This puts more emphasis on a higher INT score while removing some from WIS. This may exacerbate the problem, but we're also trying to change the class at a base level. It's got so many ability dependencies for a reason - trying to make it some other way would break the class. Doing a lot about that MAD would make us have to reconsider the class from the ground-up.

You are making a flawed assumption that MAD balances this class. Even if it were entirely SAD, it would still be good, but about on the level of a warblade (maybe, don't remember all the nifty tricks this can do off the top of my head). It wouldn't be broken in the slightest to not require at least a +1 or 2 in almost every stat.

Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 08:20 PM
Your points are valid, but trying to change it as it is now would break the class entirely. The balance of stuff we have going on would be thrown off by making a now-important stat (Wisdom) into not important. Changing something like Deadly Strike to make the class check full level and DEX based would completely make it overpowered - base 16 Dex + 4 ability boosts + Gloves of +6 dex = 26 dex = +8 modifier, making the class check a +28 at level 20 - or a hit on anything except a 1.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing given that he's pure classing, and because there is the INT based Fortitude save as well. Many CR 20 monsters have a naked base Fort save of 20 or higher. If you're really concerned though, have all class levels apply with DEX only when the target is flatfooted, and subject to another effect that makes him vulnerable to sneak attacks (like flanking, blindness, etc...).


Talking it over with the guy who's helping me balance this, we came up with a solution which may work, but we want some feedback:

Deadly Strike will now be entirely INT based. The class check will be (1d20 + white clad level + white clad's INT modifier) vs. (10 + opponent's hit dice).
Eagle's Instinct, instead of being based on your WIS modifier, will start at a +1 to the listed skills at level 3 and increase + 1 every 3 levels to a maximum of your INT modifier. These bonuses will also be considered competence bonuses.
Eagle Vision and the AC bonus will remain WIS based.


Cap the AC bonus at the lesser of the WC's WIS bonus and the WC class level to help combat dipping optimizers.

As for Eagle's Instinct, rename to Eagle's Insight; it's just more consistent with the key ability. Instinct is explicitly WIS orientated, Insight could pertain to either ability. Consider having the bonus be equal to the lesser of the WC's class level and INT mod, though I am not particularly dead set against this revision.


This allows the player to choose. Making a white clad with high INT may be more calculating and proactive - the higher skill bonuses and better Deadly Strike reflect this. A white clad with a higher WIS bonus will be more passive and reflective - the more uses of Eagle Vision and a higher AC will show that they prefer to take time to study the people and are more defensive when acting.

This puts more emphasis on a higher INT score while removing some from WIS. This may exacerbate the problem, but we're also trying to change the class at a base level. It's got so many ability dependencies for a reason - trying to make it some other way would break the class. Doing a lot about that MAD would make us have to reconsider the class from the ground-up.

I'm not convinced that MAD is required to balance the WC given the comparative strength of T3 classes to the class. That said, if you must include MAD this is a better way of going about it; INT should be roughly equal to WIS in importance. To help offset some of the pain from losing/ignoring CHA, I would add the Disguise, Gather Information and Bluff skills to those enhanced by the Eagle's Insight ability.

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-07, 01:39 AM
Revisions have been added.

Intelligence and Wisdom have been more balanced in terms of how important the abilities go. In particular, INT has been made the key skill for Deadly Strike and Eagle's Insight. WIS has been kept as the key skill for Eagle Vision and the AC bonus.

CHA is a stat that is useful if you have the high ability score to place there, but it's not near as necessary to the class as a high INT and/or WIS are. It's certainly useful, so if you can afford to put a high score there, do it. Otherwise, focus on DEX, INT, and WIS.

As noted above, INT is a focus for more proactive white clads, while WIS seems better suited to those who are more passive in their actions.

The Rank system has been changed as well, with the revamping of Urban Tracking, elimination of Deadly Aim, and the addition of three new abilities (which are admittedly mostly useful for coolness, but they also match abilities found in the games). Check it out, we also moved around some feats and abilities.

Agile has been made a standard class feature and now goes up to +10.

Eagle Vision has been reworked as well.

Vespe Ratavo
2009-12-08, 01:42 PM
I'm not exactly an expert on d20, but as far as Leap of Faith goes...

Leaps of Faith are always deliberate jumps, so the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. Hay is a yielding surface, so that's another 1d6 nonlethal damage. A White Clad will most likely make their Jump/Tumble check, so that makes 10 feet cause no damage and converts the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage.

I might be missing something, since I don't know what Roofwalker and Roofjumper do, but with the current rules as I understand them, if a White Clad jumps from a 200 foot tower (or higher, since the max falling damage is 20d6), makes his check, and lands in a bale of hay, he will take 3d6 nonlethal damage and 16d6 lethal damage.

Personally, I think an extension to the Jump/Tumble check would work, perhaps expanding the "no damage range" and the "nonlethal damage range" as the White Clad rises in level, but only when they jump into a yielding surface (only hay?).

I have no idea how it would be implemented, though. Hope this helps.

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-09, 04:25 PM
Roofwalker negates 20 feet of fall damage on a successful Jump check when jumping intentionally, and that's a DC 15.

Maybe when making an intentional jump into a yielding surface (soft ground, hay, a bunch of petals, etc), they can negate the fall damage from their white clad class levels x 10, or only take 1/4 damage? For example, a 9th level white clad could combine Roofwalker and this ability to make a 110 foot jump into a soft surface and...carry the two...

110 feet (base jump) - 20 feet (Roofwalker) = 90 feet.
90 feet = 8d6 lethal, 1d6 nonlethal by jumping into soft surface.
That's between 20 and 30 lethal damage on average and 3 nonlethal.

With this ability, depending on what we have, the WC would take between 5 and 7 lethal damage and 1 nonlethal, or no damage.

Narmy
2009-12-10, 07:22 PM
I read the class and such, skimmed some bits, read some other posts.

I just have to say that what you are doing is really awesome.

It looks balanced to me I guess, regardless if it seems super awesome.

Wish that I could make classes like that >< Though, I am trying to learn.

I forgot about play testing >< I'll have to try that with mine.

I wish you lots of good luck with finishing your class.

Dante & Vergil
2009-12-14, 02:43 AM
Bump, because I think Assassin's Creed is Niiiiiiiiiiiice!!!:smallcool:

ThreadOfFate
2009-12-17, 11:59 AM
For those still interested, I'm doing another playtest soon - a one-shot character at 5th level of CN alignment. We'll see how well it goes.

Also, I'm done with finals now, and I'll be doing work on forming this into an actual organization like in the PHB 2. If anyone wants to help on that, let me know. Suggestions and critiques are, as always, welcomed.

Temotei
2009-12-17, 06:01 PM
For those still interested, I'm doing another playtest soon - a one-shot character at 5th level of CN alignment. We'll see how well it goes.

Also, I'm done with finals now, and I'll be doing work on forming this into an actual organization like in the PHB 2. If anyone wants to help on that, let me know. Suggestions and critiques are, as always, welcomed.

Why don't you try a game with the class involved on the boards? Have at least one character that's a white clad in the game, and it's being tested.

Dante & Vergil
2010-01-06, 03:36 PM
You need put this in your signature or in an extended homebrew signature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3509035). I something like this doesn't need to go into oblivion.

Demidos
2011-05-05, 09:46 PM
Defense Break (Ex) - At 14th level, a white clad's attacks become almost overwhelming. When a white clad attacks an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, if she attacked that same opponent during her previous round, that opponent take a -1 penalty to their AC against her attack. This effect is not cumulative - an opponent can only lose a maximum of 1 AC to this ability. This ability can apply to up to her Dex modifier in opponents (minimum of 1).


I dont really see this as a 14th level ability. It doesnt really seem strong enough to merit the slot (its like weapon specialization, but weaker!) Am I missing something here:smallconfused:?

ThreadOfFate
2011-05-06, 10:41 AM
I've actually buffed this, but this page is out of date - I haven't gotten around to putting my changes up here that I've made.

That in particular has been changed to this:

Defense Break (Ex) - At 14th level, a white clad's attacks become almost overwhelming. When a white clad attacks an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, if she attacked that same opponent during her previous round, that opponent takes a -1 penalty to their AC against her attack. This effect is cumulative, up to the white clad’s Dexterity modifier.

Demidos
2011-05-12, 08:08 PM
I've actually buffed this, but this page is out of date - I haven't gotten around to putting my changes up here that I've made.

That in particular has been changed to this:

Defense Break (Ex) - At 14th level, a white clad's attacks become almost overwhelming. When a white clad attacks an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, if she attacked that same opponent during her previous round, that opponent takes a -1 penalty to their AC against her attack. This effect is cumulative, up to the white clad’s Dexterity modifier.

Oooooh, I see. Cool!