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root9125
2009-11-23, 10:42 AM
So, I'm DMing a game with an evil party. To not break verisimilitude, I have not created the "no PvP" rule that most people seem to hold by. There's one guy who I really, really want dead, and three of the party agree. The only one with any ability to do it is a Level 9 cleric of Olidammara.

I don't want the player to know who did it, because even if the player's next CHARACTER doesn't know, the PLAYER will, and from then on, everything he does will be motivated by revenge.

So, given a level 9 cleric against a noncaster in the party, what do you do to kill him untraceably?

dsmiles
2009-11-23, 10:57 AM
When a character does something behind another character's back, when I'm DMing, I usually have them pass me a note or something. Have EVERYONE pass notes to you the next time this guy's character sleeps. Somebody can kill him in his sleep, and since everyone is passing notes, he'll never know who did it.

root9125
2009-11-23, 10:58 AM
But how? Coup de grace?

Keshay
2009-11-23, 11:23 AM
Two Spells: Poison, Delay Poison.
One item: Rod of Metamagic: Maximize

After the target falls asleep, Cast Delay Poison on target, then Maximize Poison on him twice. The next day, a few hours after waking up, target will instantly take 20 Con damage minimum, 40 maximum. If he fails even one of the fort saves he'll be dead (unless he has a 26 Con, which would be impressive at lvl9).

Since he died while awake and walking around, he will not suspect a PK. The Dm will just tell him, "Make 4 Fort saves" Then announce how much Con damage he needs to take.

edit: Wait, I just re-read the op. You're the DM? Have a Roc carry him off and feed him to his brood. If you're the DM, you can kill whoever you want, however you want.

Kilmrak
2009-11-23, 11:26 AM
Or if you dont want to leave any wounds you could cast Bestow Curse on him(no will save if he's sleeping) then cast Slay Living when his saves are weaken'd.

infinitypanda
2009-11-23, 11:27 AM
Edit: scratch that, I misread "not created a no pvp rule" as "created a no pvp rule." In that case, go ahead and kill him, as long as the other players want him dead too.

dsmiles
2009-11-23, 11:29 AM
But how? Coup de grace?

Maybe it's just me, but I use an instant kill rule for unconscious or sleeping characters/opponents. You get your throat slit in your sleep, you're done. If he wakes up, just ensure that none of the party is visible, or they all have bloody knives in their hands.

FinalJustice
2009-11-23, 11:47 AM
Instead of bringing the rocks on a party member in his sleep, giving no chance of defense, couldn't you just talk to the guy and try to iron out the differences out of character?

If this sort of backstabby atitude is okay, which I think is the case, being a PvPable evil game, can't really go wrong with killing the dude in his sleep. If you have to hide from the player as well, summon somethiing to CdG him in his sleep.

We could do better with more information. What are the senses of the victim? Blindsense? Scent? How are his saves? Any possible class features that could get in the way of the assassination (such as an Animal Companion)?

Grumman
2009-11-23, 11:52 AM
Wait two levels, then Geas some sucker into doing it for you? That's what the spell's for, isn't it?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-11-23, 12:13 PM
Discuss out of game before the session, that when this problem character goes to sleep the other characters will leave camp "to talk", when this happens the Cleric will (Rod of Extend?) Summon Monster V for a Fiendish Giant Crocodile which will attack the sleeping player, starting with a CDG and improved grabbing if he survives it. It will be summoned adjacent to him so there's no risk that he wakes up from it walking up, but he doesn't have to know that. At best he'll be awake, prone, grappled, and hurt, probably not wearing any armor, with no weapons out. All he knows is that there's a big crocodile in the camp and nobody else is there. To make it better, if he relies on a specific weapon to fight, have the party suspicious of the weapon's origins ahead of time. When he goes to sleep someone will slight of hand it off him so they can leave camp to cast some divinations on it so they don't wake him up, which is when the croc shows up. It can devour him so completely that there's no chance of a Raise Dead. Tell him that most of his gear was devoured as well, and that it wandered off afterward. Outside the session you can determine with the other players that they collected his gear after the summon ran out, and can divide up its sale value between them. His next character will probably be some kind of professional hunter out to find this giant crocodile with a wealth of magical gear in its belly.

Telonius
2009-11-23, 12:40 PM
Why is it important that the other party members be the ones who do the deed? You're the DM; next monster they face is specifically geared to taking out Clerics. A "lucky crit" on your part, and the character's dead.

Teddy
2009-11-23, 12:47 PM
You might do like this:

Roll some dices and tell the cleric, and possibly some other party member that they heard something, and that they saw some shadows in a corner or some bushes. The cleric casts Obscuring Mist to "cover their escape". Then have the "enemies" overwhelm and trip the victim and then just let them kill him off (the rest of the party "falls back" while they tries to hold of the "enemies"). Let everyone scream and clank a lot so that it isn't obvious that there are no real enemies. At least one party member should actually move away from the victim and shout to him to come.


Why is it important that the other party members be the ones who do the deed? You're the DM; next monster they face is specifically geared to taking out Clerics. A "lucky crit" on your part, and the character's dead.

Uhm, the cleric was the one that would kill the party member. And I think it's a part of the story that the other party members would kill their annoying "ally". After all, it's they who wants him dead.

Grumman
2009-11-23, 12:54 PM
Why is it important that the other party members be the ones who do the deed? You're the DM; next monster they face is specifically geared to taking out Clerics. A "lucky crit" on your part, and the character's dead.
No, absolutely not. You should never cheat to kill a PC. In any situation that you'd be tempted to do so, you should either resolve it OOC or be honest about it.

arguskos
2009-11-23, 01:00 PM
No, absolutely not. You should never cheat to kill a PC. In any situation that you'd be tempted to do so, you should either resolve it OOC or be honest about it.
Or, you could use my dice, which will crit for giggles whenever they want to. :smallamused:

No, really, they crit all the damned time. I've had days where they crit in situations where a crit is the only thing that hits, and it auto-kills if it hits, and this happens A LOT. ****, if the party decided they wanted someone dead, the best thing they could do would be tell me, cause my dice would make it happen. :smallsigh:

Also, about this topic, Imma gonna chime in on the "talk it over" theory. WHY do you want this guy dead?

Brendan
2009-11-23, 01:22 PM
Shrink object an immovable rod, make some way for it to go off when it hits the target's escophagus (party rogue makes trap) and putit in the food, disguised as a tasty meatball. Insta-choke.
Or, simply if the player wears glasses, explosive runes their face off.

Moriato
2009-11-23, 01:58 PM
It all just seems like a really bad idea to me. Why does everyone want him dead? Is it really the character that you don't like, or is it the player? If it's the player, then killing off his character and having him make a new one will accomplish nothing, you still wont like the player any better. If it's the character you don't like, then why? Is he too powerful compared to the rest of the group? Is a new character that he makes really at all likely to be any different?

It seems to me that a group killing off one person's PCs only ever accomplishes ruining the game for at least one person. If you don't want him in the group, or don't like his character, just be honest about it and tell him so. You'll save yourself so much drama in the long run.

jiriku
2009-11-23, 02:07 PM
Why are you as the DM pursuing secret vendettas against a particular PC? I agree with Moriato - It's hard to see a way this doesn't create a great deal of RL drama. Much danger this way lies.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-23, 02:18 PM
Why are you as the DM pursuing secret vendettas against a particular PC? I agree with Moriato - It's hard to see a way this doesn't create a great deal of RL drama. Much danger this way lies.

This is correct. If the PCs want to kill him, that's all well and good. If they do so in such a way that his replacement character wouldn't even know about it, he should not be pursuing a vendetta against them for OOC reasons. That's metagaming, pure and simple.

But they do not need the DM to conspire with them to kill off their ally. In fact, I advise you to consider if there's another way to solve differences that doesn't end in permadeath for a character. PvP is fine, but everyone ganging up on someone often ends in needless drama.

Emmerask
2009-11-23, 02:32 PM
So, I'm DMing a game with an evil party. To not break verisimilitude, I have not created the "no PvP" rule that most people seem to hold by. There's one guy who I really, really want dead, and three of the party agree. The only one with any ability to do it is a Level 9 cleric of Olidammara.

I don't want the player to know who did it, because even if the player's next CHARACTER doesn't know, the PLAYER will, and from then on, everything he does will be motivated by revenge.

So, given a level 9 cleric against a noncaster in the party, what do you do to kill him untraceably?


So you as a gm want one of your pcs dead ? Sorry but this is a fail you should be impartial as a dm not favoring anyone AND especially NOT helping some players killing a party member...

If the character is just too strong compared to the others powerlevel (which Im guessing by your post) chances are pretty high his next character will be even stronger, a much better way would be to talk to that player in private and if he refuses to create a more balanced character for the group kick him out...

My tip is that soon there will be a thread in some forum "My group killed me need help to create a character to destroy an entire group of pcs"

Emmerask
2009-11-23, 02:36 PM
This is correct. If the PCs want to kill him, that's all well and good. If they do so in such a way that his replacement character wouldn't even know about it, he should not be pursuing a vendetta against them for OOC reasons. That's metagaming, pure and simple.


As a player there is allways a way ;)

Im some mad old sorcerer the father of the dead pc rescued me a long time ago and I swore to protect his children. Now that hes dead somebody has to pay the price... what about those people who where with him when he died why didnt they help him? they seem to be a good target for my wrath, I will gain their trust then kill them one by one :smallbiggrin:

Tyndmyr
2009-11-23, 02:37 PM
My tip is that soon there will be a thread in some forum "My group killed me need help to create a character to destroy an entire group of pcs"

See, that I would actually help with.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-23, 02:39 PM
As a player there is allways a way ;)

Im some mad old sorcerer the father of the dead pc rescued me a long time ago and I swore to protect his children. Now that hes dead somebody has to pay the price... what about those people who where with him when he died why didnt they help him? they seem to be a good target for my wrath, I will gain their trust then kill them one by one :smallbiggrin:

Well, that's the players problem, not the GMs. There are ways for them to make it extremely difficult to discover the killers(pay others to do it, then kill them, being a classic).

The GM should not be interfering in this in order to ensure the demise of characters at all, or it will be seen as everyone ganging up on him, which, frankly, it is.

Emmerask
2009-11-23, 02:39 PM
See, that I would actually help with.

given the unsatisfying reasoning the op gave us I would too :smallbiggrin:

root9125
2009-11-23, 02:51 PM
Why is it important that the other party members be the ones who do the deed? You're the DM; next monster they face is specifically geared to taking out Clerics. A "lucky crit" on your part, and the character's dead.

Because *I* don't care if the player dies. I just want to advise a new player on how to do it because their character wants to.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-23, 02:53 PM
Give them advice regarding detection methods their character would know about. They can seek advice with the other characters to plot a method, if they wish.

Trying to keep it a secret from the PLAYER is DM intervention. Don't go there.

Dr Bwaa
2009-11-23, 02:59 PM
Two Spells: Poison, Delay Poison.
One item: Rod of Metamagic: Maximize

After the target falls asleep, Cast Delay Poison on target, then Maximize Poison on him twice. The next day, a few hours after waking up, target will instantly take 20 Con damage minimum, 40 maximum. If he fails even one of the fort saves he'll be dead (unless he has a 26 Con, which would be impressive at lvl9).

Since he died while awake and walking around, he will not suspect a PK. The Dm will just tell him, "Make 4 Fort saves" Then announce how much Con damage he needs to take.

+1. Do this. (I love it!)