Dungeons and Confidence Scams

[BRC]

So, I was recently reminded how much I enjoy a good con movie. And So I started thinking of ways to bring this into DnD.
Well, first, 2 questions.
1: As a DM, would you allow your players to pull off Con scams, which can make a good deal of money with a few skill checks, breaking WBL.
2. As a DM, would you throw one of these at your players.

But, the reason I made this thread, is to see what cons people can think up for DnD. I've thought up two, I want to see opinions/other people's ideas.
The Fallen Comrade

Requirements: A masterwork Weapon, Ability to cast Magic Weapon. The ability to cast Greater Magic Weapon or use extend Spell helps a lot.
The Goal: Convince the Mark to buy a nonmagical weapon thinking it’s magical.
The Mark: Adventurers, preferably a martial character on his own. While this con could work on an arcane caster, it’s more dangerous. If you trust your bluff checks and don’t register as Evil under a detect evil spell, a Paladin or Cleric of a good-aligned god works best. The safest mark would be a fighter or barbarian.
The Plan: As late as possible cast Magic Weapon on the masterwork weapon, making it, effectively, a +1 weapon. The Con Man approaches the Mark with the Tale. The Con Man in question should appear tired, perhaps wounded, and bedraggled. He approaches the Mark and tells the tale
The Tale: The Con Man is an adventurer who recently fell afoul of some bad luck. His party was fighting Ogres and though they won, one of his fellow adventurers died, and they didn’t have enough cash on them for a raise dead, they are 1800 gold short, and their friend died several days ago, so the time during which he can be raised is rapidly running out. In order to make the cash quickly, the Con Man is willing to sell his +1 Weapon for only 1800 gold. If the Mark would be so kind as to pay quickly, they need to get to the temple as soon as possible. The Mark tests out the weapon, finds it shows the features of a +1 weapon, and pays up, thinking that they did a good deed and got the deal of the century at the same time. The Con Man runs off as quickly as possible (To buy the Diamonds in question). By the time the Mark realizes he was tricked, it’s too late.
This con can be done at higher levels with Greater Magic Weapon, or with Magic vestment. Only an Identify spell can reveal the weapon to be what it is, so be careful. Avoid trying this con on suspicious arcane spellcasters.


The Vargathia

Requirements: a heavy-bound tome filled with gibberish. It should have some sort of distinctive feature
The Mark: Wizards, preferably confident, ambitious, low-level ones. Lawful Evil wizards work great for this con.
The Goal: Convince the Wizard that the book in question is the spellbook of a powerful archmage, with the spells written in code.
The Plan: This is a three man job. First, the Mark is approached by Man 1, who should look like a well-dressed wizard. He approaches the Mark and asks if he’s seen a spellbook around, he describes the spellbook, paying extra attention to the distinctive feature. When the Mark asks about it, Man 1 states that the spellbook in question belonged to an Archmage named Vargathia, and contains many powerful, perhaps unique, spells. Vargathia wrote his spells in a Code however and recently died taking the code with him. However somebody of considerable intellect should be able to decipher it. The Book was last seen in the possession of Vargathia’s drunken gambler of a Brother (Man 2). Man 1 Says he’s willing to pay good money for the Spellbook, and even more if somebody is capable of decoding it. Man 1 leaves the Mark a way to contact him, and wanders off Later, the Mark should notice Man 2 carrying the Book. Man 2 should look like an idiot and an imbecile, somebody who doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near the spellbook of an Archmage. Man 2 is being hassled by the burly, thuggish Man 3, who punches him in the face, says something about him having until the next day to pay up, and wanders off. If the Mark doesn’t approach Man 2, wait a bit, then have Man 2 approach the Mark, offering to sell him the Spellbook for a fraction of what Man 1 offered. The Mark agrees and runs off to try to decode the Book. The Mark may never know the book is total gibberish, and not encoded at all, or if he does figure it out, the team will be long gone with his money.

[dsmiles]

Cons aren't inherently game-breakers, IMO (of course as a standard player of charisma based rogues, my opinion may not count for much).
Even as a DM, I allow players to run cons (since my campaigns are primarily role-play, they have to earn XP somehow). But cons can be fun for the players.

I once ran a con as a charisma-based rogue. We found an area that didn't know what mithril or adamantine were, so we ran a con where I managed to get the "primitive" tribe to worship the dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks fighter as a divinity. We were a mostly neutral-ish party, and the con went on for quite some time before the fighter "ascended" (read: levitated up a cliff) and we moved on to the next adventure. Not a money con, but still fun to do.

[Duke of URL]

Scams (either as cons or marks) sound like great RP opportunities. Just keep it in check, so that it doesn't break WBL that your campaign assumes.

If your players are the cons, make sure they are marks once in a while too. :) Turnabout is always fair play.

These types of things are best used as adventure hooks, rather than standalone. The party gets conned by a clever scheme? Maybe trying to track down the con men would be a goal -- or a local, seeing the squad down on their luck, approaches them with a job, since they look like they need the pay. (A truly evil DM would have this be a second con, or shady enough that it's actually legit, but comes across as another con.)

On the flip side, after some moderate successes, the PCs wind up conning the wrong guy, who just happens to have friends in high (or low) places...

[bosssmiley]

Scams have consequences. The characters aren't breaking WBL by ripping off the Goblin Yakuza; they're just getting the loot first, then fighting for it (and their lives) afterwards. :smallwink:

[Another_Poet]

1: As a DM, would you allow your players to pull off Con scams, which can make a good deal of money with a few skill checks, breaking WBL.

I would definitely allow it. I don't think it would lead to game-breaking wealth. For example, 1st level characters are going to have a hard time bluffing 5th level characters, let alone getting past any divination spells or similar that the mark may want to use to check out the deal before forking over money. 1st level characters could maybe fool a 3rd level mark, and the amount of cash a 3rd level mark can afford to put into a ponzy scheme isn't going to break tthe game at 1st level.

Plus, as with all challenges in D&D, the difficulty must scale with level and reward. 1st level characters conning a 3rd level mark will have an easier time than 10th level characters conning a 15th level mark. In each casem the DM should use skill checks, spells, and other NPCs running interference. The difficulty of the con thus scales with level and becomes a challenge worthy of earning wealth (and maybe even XP).



2. As a DM, would you throw one of these at your players.

The Fallen Comrade

Requirements: A masterwork Weapon, Ability to cast Magic Weapon. The ability to cast Greater Magic Weapon or use extend Spell helps a lot.
The Goal: Convince the Mark to buy a nonmagical weapon thinking it’s magical.
The Mark: Adventurers, preferably a martial character on his own. While this con could work on an arcane caster, it’s more dangerous. If you trust your bluff checks and don’t register as Evil under a detect evil spell, a Paladin or Cleric of a good-aligned god works best. The safest mark would be a fighter or barbarian.
The Plan: As late as possible cast Magic Weapon on the masterwork weapon, making it, effectively, a +1 weapon. The Con Man approaches the Mark with the Tale. The Con Man in question should appear tired, perhaps wounded, and bedraggled. He approaches the Mark and tells the tale
The Tale: The Con Man is an adventurer who recently fell afoul of some bad luck. His party was fighting Ogres and though they won, one of his fellow adventurers died, and they didn’t have enough cash on them for a raise dead, they are 1800 gold short, and their friend died several days ago, so the time during which he can be raised is rapidly running out. In order to make the cash quickly, the Con Man is willing to sell his +1 Weapon for only 1800 gold. If the Mark would be so kind as to pay quickly, they need to get to the temple as soon as possible. The Mark tests out the weapon, finds it shows the features of a +1 weapon, and pays up, thinking that they did a good deed and got the deal of the century at the same time. The Con Man runs off as quickly as possible (To buy the Diamonds in question). By the time the Mark realizes he was tricked, it’s too late.
This con can be done at higher levels with Greater Magic Weapon, or with Magic vestment. Only an Identify spell can reveal the weapon to be what it is, so be careful. Avoid trying this con on suspicious arcane spellcasters.


Yep, this one is a great one. Could work quite nicely. I would still afford the NPC mark a Sense Motive check, as it would be somewhat unusual for someone to come up and offer to sell you a magic sword out of nowhere. A fool and his money are soon parted though, so... if he fails the check, I guess he is a fool.

That said, the con will have consequences. How far can your PCs get in the few minutes before the spell wears off? (or hours, with Greater Magic Weapon?

What if the mark calls the constable, and a posse is formed to hunt the PCs down? After all, anyone with 1800 gp to burn is likely an important citizen. Or a criminal, in which case you might have a thieves' gang or clan of assassins after the PCs. They can hire a ranger to track them, if needed - or use div spells.

Also consider home field advantage. I presume the PCs aren't dumb enough to do this in their own home town, since everyone knows their faces and names. THis implies that they're in some unfamiliar town, just passing through. Did they bother with a Gather Info to find a mark who is also a traveler? If not, or if they failed it, the mark is definitely a local person and likely knows the terrain better than the PCs. A Sending spell to the innkeeper at the only roadhouse for 25 miles could lead to an ambush awaiti9ng the PCs.

There's also the matter of Alignment - are evil PCs allowed in the game? How many cons does it take to become "evil"? (I'd suggest just one unless you have a damned good reason for it or you're conning bad guys.)

And last, reputation. Does the party bother with Disguise checks and Alter Self everywhere they go? If not, they're probably pretty distinctive personages. Anyone traveling with a wizard stands out in most settings, and the PHB states that each suit of full plate is a custom job. That bard might open his mouth too often, too. People can recognise the band of mercenaries with the red-robed wizard, or the knight with the silvery full plate and the two-eagle crest. If those people have a reputation of ripping folks off, they might just be run out of town the second they arrive.


The Vargathia
[spoiler]
Requirements: a heavy-bound tome filled with gibberish. It should have some sort of distinctive feature
The Mark: Wizards, preferably confident, ambitious, low-level ones. Lawful Evil wizards work great for this con.
The Goal: Convince the Wizard that the book in question is the spellbook of a powerful archmage, with the spells written in code.
The Plan: This is a three man job. First, the Mark is approached by Man 1, who should look like a well-dressed wizard. He approaches the Mark and asks if he’s seen a spellbook around, he describes the spellbook, paying extra attention to the distinctive feature. When the Mark asks about it, Man 1 states that the spellbook in question belonged to an Archmage named Vargathia, and contains many powerful, perhaps unique, spells. Vargathia wrote his spells in a Code however and recently died taking the code with him. However somebody of considerable intellect should be able to decipher it. The Book was last seen in the possession of Vargathia’s drunken gambler of a Brother (Man 2). Man 1 Says he’s willing to pay good money for the Spellbook, and even more if somebody is capable of decoding it. Man 1 leaves the Mark a way to contact him, and wanders off Later, the Mark should notice Man 2 carrying the Book. Man 2 should look like an idiot and an imbecile, somebody who doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near the spellbook of an Archmage. Man 2 is being hassled by the burly, thuggish Man 3, who punches him in the face, says something about him having until the next day to pay up, and wanders off. If the Mark doesn’t approach Man 2, wait a bit, then have Man 2 approach the Mark, offering to sell him the Spellbook for a fraction of what Man 1 offered. The Mark agrees and runs off to try to decode the Book. The Mark may never know the book is total gibberish, and not encoded at all, or if he does figure it out, the team will be long gone with his money.
[/QUOTE]

I have a harder time seeing this one work. It all seems a little *too* coincidental. However some people would still fall for it, of course... all down to the last part. "If the Mark doesn’t approach Man 2, wait a bit, then have Man 2 approach the Mark, offering to sell him the Spellbook..." Ummm, no. If the Mark doesn't approach Man 2, the Mark isn't falling for it and it's time to pull the heck out.

That said, I love these ideas... do you watch Leverage at all? A fun show, by no means great but quite often the cons are brilliant. Lots of ideas you can mine there.

ap

[valadil]

I would absolutely allow my players to scam NPCs. Hell, I'd encourage it. And I'd absolutely punish them for doing so too.

NPCs are more than walking bundles of gold and XP. They don't like being ripped off. If the players sell an MW item for the price of a magic one, whatever. Next time they try it the NPC will have wisened up and learned to dispel incoming items.

Or one of the NPC's buyers will get pissed that he sold them a magic weapon that was really just masterwork. In a fit of rage, he killed the guy the players ripped off. Now don't they feel guilty. Maybe they even get hired to investigate the whole thing.

Or the local mafia will notice the PCs scamming locals. This is mafia territory, so the PCs get threatened.

NPCs who react appropriately are one of the best things you can do to make your world seem real.

[AtwasAwamps]

An interesting variation on the Vargathia:

The man with the book gets there first, trying to sell the book to various merchants in town, claiming its a valuable spell book. It obviously isn't and he shouldn't try TOO hard to sell it as one, and should be asking a high price.

The Mark should be a merchant or wizard of some kind in the town who has been approached by the book seller.

The 2nd Conman should arrive, looking noble and wealthy, and approach the mark, asking about the book, explaining that the book is a powerful spellbook and that he would pay an enormous amount of money for it. The mark then has a few options:

1) Tell the wizard that there's a man in town trying to sell such a thing, at which point the wizard wanders off. There's opportunities for a back-up con here, of course, but it's not as elegant.

2) Tell the wizard he "thinks he can secure it" and runs to find the bookseller, paying him his price (which the wizard easily trumped!)

3) Tell the wizard he hasn't heard of it and do the same as above.

4) SO on and so forth. It eliminates the need for a third person, though it adds a slight complication and requires a bit more elegant set up and diplomacy checks.

[BRC]

Of course the Marks get Sense Motive checks, but a con-artist character should have enough ranks in bluff to handle the sense motive checks of somebody not built for it.
And, assuming these are skilled con artists, they won't go in blind. They'll probably have spent some time getting to know the town, knowing who is an adventurer wandering through town and who is friends with the local archmage. Prep work is essential in a con, and laying the groundwork may be the difference between success and failure.

For example, the Fallen Comrade, the Tale should be adapted depending on what local threat could have felled said comrade. If Giants are a local menace, they were fighting Giants. Maybe the team enters the town some time before as an adventuring party who intend to go off and fight the Giants, so when they return, bloodied and beaten, they are recognized.

Of course Consequences should ensue, but I think that part of the challenge in dealing with them Should be prep work. For example, if the crew is conning a local thieves guild, and does things specifically to avoid the Guild's inevitable retaliation (Like laying a well-planned escape route, tipping off the local authorities so they show up to keep the thieves busy for some time. If they have all angles covered, I'd say they preemptively handled the consequences. Of course, things may still come back to haunt them.

[Another_Poet]

<well-thought-out snipped>

Sounds like you have it covered. Seems like a great way to earn gp but not much xp - it would be interesting to see if they can take on higher level adventures then, once they're all geared up with stuff from beyond their level.

[Duke of URL]

Of course, things may still come back to haunt them.

Oh yes. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Especially if they're foolhardy enough to try it again. This time, the "mark" -- someone secretly working for the previously defrauded -- becomes the "con" and lures the PCs into a trap.

[valadil]

I had another thought about this type of play and why I would always allow it.

All too often players fall into the trap of playing passively or reactively. They wait for the quests to come to them. They have no motivation beyond responding to the plot hooks you throw them. I think this is especially problematic in D&D, but it can happen in other systems too.

If you have players who want to be conmen, you have PCs who are actively pursuing a plot. You don't need to write plot hooks anymore. Just NPCs for the players to dupe. Maybe you'll have a game where the players break WBL. So what? Those players will be better roleplayers for it. Their characters will be more ambitious. They'll do things in the world besides finding and listening to questgiver NPCs.

The fact that you have players intersted in this kind of play is amazing. I usually have to drag it out of them. I vote you let them play actively at the expense of WBL. The only downside is you'll spoil these PCs if they ever go back to a railroady GM who wants to tell only his own story.

[Dr Bwaa]

This type of play is great and I absolutely encourage it. Just remember that PC actions do have consequences. BUT, make sure those consequences are logical--I do have one DM who, if you fool one of his NPCs once (hard, since they all apparently have +50 sense motive mods), EVERY OTHER NPC IN THE GAME is instantly alerted to (A) The fact that you ripped off the person, (B) exactly how you did it, and (C) your exact location so they can come arrest you. Don't gold be able to run back heists, scams, cons, and whatever else they can get away with--they just have to be able to get away with it, and possibly deal with the repercussions from the law/their party members later (A PC in a campaign I ran once pulled off an insanely elaborate bank heist almost perfectly, but got caught at the last second due to some very bad luck (it's a very long story), and had to suffer along with a Mark of Justice for a while afterwards :smalltongue:

Summary: Yes! This kind of play is fun! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I almost forgot--WBL is pretty borked anyway. Don't worry about it, just make the PCs earn it =D

[MCerberus]

Occasional cons like this are good and creative, and won't even effect alignment... too much, but if the PCs make a habit of it, they'll

A. Get a reputation, need to keep moving, and earn some enemies
B. Have advanced the DM/PC arms race. Cure moderate strawberry syrup potions for all!
C. encounter a bigger fish

Cons would be a major tone shift, but if the players are having fun, it's one that can be interesting to roll along with. Oh, and a light spell might help them think the sword is magic.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

EDIT: I almost forgot--WBL is pretty borked anyway. Don't worry about it, just make the PCs earn it =D

In what way is WBL "borked"?
It is one of the fairer rules out there, you should also remember it is a guideline, not an exact amount.

[Dr Bwaa]

It's somewhat depending on what setting you're in, but if you go by strict WBL, the PCs can hire an army at about level 6, buy a kingdom not much later, etc...

It could also be that I prefer low-magic games most of the time :smalltongue: but if an adventuring party can walk into a town and buy it out and leave it desolate just through their commerce... Seems to me like something is broken.


it is a guideline, not an exact amount

yes, yes. I just think it's a very high guideline :smalltongue: again, that may be just me.

[BRC]

Here's another one I thought up, good for standard adventuring parties looking to get info on a dungeon

The Scarlabrax

Requirements: A good bluff, any appropriate decorations. Tailor depending on your Mark.
The Mark: Somebody with a secure location you wish to infiltrate or attack. Said location is preferably owned by the occupants, and not part of some larger organization.
Goal: Convince the Mark to show you around their fortress/dungeon.
The Plan: You approach the Mark’s fortress in disguise and state that you work for a “Mister Scarlabrax”. Mister Scarlabrax could be anything, but he’s somebody powerful , capable of rewarding the Mark. Also, his nature should explain why people haven’t heard of him before. Or claim it’s a Pseudonym he works under for illicit deeds. What/whoever Mister Scarlabrax is, he has a very important item, and he’s looking for a secure place to store it. The Mark’s facility came up as an option, and Mister Scarlabrax will, of course, greatly reward the Mark if his facility is used. However, first, Mister Scarlabrax’s subordinate (The Con Artist) needs to inspect the Facility to make sure it is secure enough. Mister Scarlabrax isn’t going to entrust his property to somebody who cannot keep it safe. As such, the Subordinate needs to see the defenses the Mark has, and the personnel he has guarding his compound. If the Mark buys it, the Con should allow himself to be shown around the complex. Provided the Mark actually bought it, this should provide the Con with the layout and defenses, allowing him to plan an attack or infiltration.
After the tour, the Con looks pleased, says “Excellent, I shall recommend you to Mister Scarlabrax, expect to hear from us shortly” and leaves.

[Foryn Gilnith]

It's somewhat depending on what setting you're in, but if you go by strict WBL, the PCs can hire an army at about level 6, buy a kingdom not much later, etc...
That's a problem with the prices of armies, not with WBL. And kingdoms are obscenely expensive - have you seen the Stronghold Builder's Guide?

[Serpentine]

I think this is a brilliant idea! :biggrin: I'd love to see more of them.
Don't forget: if there's one thing I learned from that British con show (forget its name), it's that the best scams involve the Mark doing something illegal and/or bad - means they deserve it, and they're less likely to go to the authorities.

Now I feel like statting up a Conomancer...

[Emy]

1) Glibness is amazing.
2) Forgery is useful. I'm not sure if it exists anymore, since Gleemax's archives are gone, but LogicNinja had a On Forgery: A Mini-Guide thread, that showed how even a single rank in forgery can be useful. Here are the basics:

The skill to oppose forgery is forgery. How many NPCs have it as a trained skill? Almost none.
Creating an important document is a one-time thing. You can apply as many temporary bonuses as you like, but the recipient can't afford to blow +10 skill shards each time they look something over.
As a Factotum, having 1 skill rank ensures that you can add your level to the check.
You don't need face skills in order to make the forgery. Have the wizard make it, and the bard (with glibness) present it to the mark.



Here's another one I thought up, good for standard adventuring parties looking to get info on a dungeon

The Scarlabrax

Requirements: A good bluff, any appropriate decorations. Tailor depending on your Mark.
The Mark: Somebody with a secure location you wish to infiltrate or attack. Said location is preferably owned by the occupants, and not part of some larger organization.
Goal: Convince the Mark to show you around their fortress/dungeon.
The Plan: You approach the Mark’s fortress in disguise and state that you work for a “Mister Scarlabrax”. Mister Scarlabrax could be anything, but he’s somebody powerful , capable of rewarding the Mark. Also, his nature should explain why people haven’t heard of him before. Or claim it’s a Pseudonym he works under for illicit deeds. What/whoever Mister Scarlabrax is, he has a very important item, and he’s looking for a secure place to store it. The Mark’s facility came up as an option, and Mister Scarlabrax will, of course, greatly reward the Mark if his facility is used. However, first, Mister Scarlabrax’s subordinate (The Con Artist) needs to inspect the Facility to make sure it is secure enough. Mister Scarlabrax isn’t going to entrust his property to somebody who cannot keep it safe. As such, the Subordinate needs to see the defenses the Mark has, and the personnel he has guarding his compound. If the Mark buys it, the Con should allow himself to be shown around the complex. Provided the Mark actually bought it, this should provide the Con with the layout and defenses, allowing him to plan an attack or infiltration.
After the tour, the Con looks pleased, says “Excellent, I shall recommend you to Mister Scarlabrax, expect to hear from us shortly” and leaves.



Forgery could be pretty useful here. Forge a letter from "Mister Scarlabrax"... or even a letter from a powerful individual that actually exists. It's doubtful that they can spot the letter is a phony, and it can provide a useful prop to help your party's verisimilitude.

[DSCrankshaw]

The easiest way is to treat it as an encounter, with encounter level treasure at stake and a series of rolls instead of a single one.

[dsmiles]

@BRC:
Keem 'em comin'. These are great material.

[BRC]

So it sounds like an idea Con Crew should contain three members
1) A Bard, (s)he's the primary Conner, with his/her Bluff ranks boosted as high as possible and enough charisma to charm the pants off a paladin.
2) A Rogue, (s)he takes the role of Man 2 in the Cons. Also a good Bluff check, but (s)he can handle stealth aspects of a Con. Also serves as a backup in case things go badly (s)he's got some Combat Skills to smack an angry Mark with a sap sneak attack (True Con Artists don't kill their Marks), throw down some smoke, and help the crew get away.
3) A Wizard, (s)he serves as a back up (wo)man, casting spells to support the Con, and using his/her high-int for Knowledge Checks (To do the proper research before pulling a Con. Many a well-planned heist has fallen apart because the crew impersonated the wrong Noble House) and Forgeries. For a less magical Crew, a Factotum could work very well for the backup role.

And now, somebody should Stat these three, let's call them the Griftwood Crew.

Edit: Also, nobody else has any ideas for Cons?

[Another_Poet]

I would go with a straight up Leverage team:

A face, a stealth burglar/pickpocket/saboteur, a badass in case we blow our cover, a "hacker", and a mastermind planner/leader who can serve as a backup face.

The face - could be bard, could be sorcerer with a charm specialty.

The badass - anything Tome of Battle. Make sure he/she can do at least a little stealth too, it will be needed sometimes.

The stealth burglar - a rogue of course. Maybe with levels of other things or a PrC that focuses on stealth. Build this char around good AC, fast movement, high saveing throws, etc - they shouldn't get into a fight and if they do their goal is to survive long enough to escape.

The hacker - in fantasy terms, a divination specialist who is also quite good at cloaking people/things against divination. Having a nice Gather Info modifier would be good too. This guy comes up with the info you need to plan your heist or con - who is the best mark, where will they be when, have they fallen for it, how do we keep them from knowing what we're up to, etc. Having some Illusion powers would be good too.

The leader - a Marshall or a Cleric. Someone who can buff the others as well as give commands. Someone with some principles and the Cha score to pull off ordering criminals around. Bonus points if a Druid or undeadomancer Cleric, as either can pull extra allies out of nowhere when needed (animals, plants or undead).

Them's my thoughtses.


also:


It's somewhat depending on what setting you're in, but if you go by strict WBL, the PCs can hire an army at about level 6, buy a kingdom not much later, etc...

You can never buy a kingdom. Not because it costs too much, because no one's willing to sell. Even if they're desparate they can't just openly sell it or they - and the buyer - are gonna have a revolt on their hands. The best you can hope for is an IMF type takeover, which is both difficult to plan and pull off, relatively boring at a fantasy RP game, and requires a very special sort of GM to even have a chance in heck of accomplishing.

The more feudal way of getting a kingdom, of course, is to serve some great lord loyally enough that they reward you with the title. You'll probably have to settle for Duke or lower, not King (unless it's an emperor you serve) but still, that's how you get a country. No cash involved.

[Sleepingbear]

You may wish to swap out the wizard for a sorceror. Having Charisma as a casting stat synergizes with being a con person. Also, I believe that they get bluff as one of their class skills but I might be wrong.

[dsmiles]

The more feudal way of getting a kingdom, of course, is to serve some great lord loyally enough that they reward you with the title. You'll probably have to settle for Duke or lower, not King (unless it's an emperor you serve) but still, that's how you get a country. No cash involved.

I believe hostile takeovers (read: invasions) were more common than earning a kingdom.:smallwink:

[DragoonWraith]

You may wish to swap out the wizard for a sorceror. Having Charisma as a casting stat synergizes with being a con person. Also, I believe that they get bluff as one of their class skills but I might be wrong.
Having done this as my first character, yes, this. Sorcerers are great cons.

Since the rest of my party isn't particularly interested in running cons, I typically have my Sorcerer do them on the side - since he's often doing Gather Information checks, I also state that I'm on the look-out for potential marks, give my DM some stock lines (I tend to favor "my sister is sick, and the bastards at the temple won't heal her without more money than we can afford"), and some pre-rolled Bluff checks, and he does some mystery rolling and tells me how much money I make doing it (it's PbP, so doing this kind of thing on the side is trivial). Sort of like a more complicated Profession check. The most I've made was 100-ish gp, but that was for a special purpose and was donated to the party's Rogue anyway, so WBL is a non-worry. It's just a fun, very flavorful thing I have my character do. We've also gotten a few plot hooks this way, which is always good.

[Human Paragon 3]

Here's another one I thought up, good for standard adventuring parties looking to get info on a dungeon

The Scarlabrax

Requirements: A good bluff, any appropriate decorations. Tailor depending on your Mark.
The Mark: Somebody with a secure location you wish to infiltrate or attack. Said location is preferably owned by the occupants, and not part of some larger organization.
Goal: Convince the Mark to show you around their fortress/dungeon.
The Plan: You approach the Mark’s fortress in disguise and state that you work for a “Mister Scarlabrax”. Mister Scarlabrax could be anything, but he’s somebody powerful , capable of rewarding the Mark. Also, his nature should explain why people haven’t heard of him before. Or claim it’s a Pseudonym he works under for illicit deeds. What/whoever Mister Scarlabrax is, he has a very important item, and he’s looking for a secure place to store it. The Mark’s facility came up as an option, and Mister Scarlabrax will, of course, greatly reward the Mark if his facility is used. However, first, Mister Scarlabrax’s subordinate (The Con Artist) needs to inspect the Facility to make sure it is secure enough. Mister Scarlabrax isn’t going to entrust his property to somebody who cannot keep it safe. As such, the Subordinate needs to see the defenses the Mark has, and the personnel he has guarding his compound. If the Mark buys it, the Con should allow himself to be shown around the complex. Provided the Mark actually bought it, this should provide the Con with the layout and defenses, allowing him to plan an attack or infiltration.
After the tour, the Con looks pleased, says “Excellent, I shall recommend you to Mister Scarlabrax, expect to hear from us shortly” and leaves.



Not bad, but I think somebody paranoid enough to have a very secure fortress might not be super trusting of this front. Or even if he did believe the front, the mark might be too paranoid to let anybody into his fortress.

I would team this with an "up front" offer of money or another, lesser item as a "sign of good faith." Of course, you just steal the sign of good faith back after your complete your mission.

[BRC]

Not bad, but I think somebody paranoid enough to have a very secure fortress might not be super trusting of this front. Or even if he did believe the front, the mark might be too paranoid to let anybody into his fortress.

I would team this with an "up front" offer of money or another, lesser item as a "sign of good faith." Of course, you just steal the sign of good faith back after your complete your mission.
Well, the Scarlabrax is one of the more dangerous and difficult Cons. It's the type of thing where you stack on every modifier you can get your hands on before going in, and once inside you keep your mouth shut to avoid saying something that will give you away. It also gives a much longer exposure to a more paranoid Mark. Compared to, say, the Fallen Comrade, where the main threat is somebody not believing you and calling you a scumbag, the Scarlabrax is incredibly risky.

[The Random NPC]

I like telling people going into town about the new requirement of entrance papers. If you don't have them you won't be able to get in to sell your goods, fortunatly I am certified to grant entrance papers for a small fee. This con requires bluff, forgery, and perferably a good disguise.

[Cyanic]

1: Yes, sure. I can always bring the WBL back where it should be if needed.
2: No, but I also wouldn't stop them from finding/making a situation.

[Loxagn]

Oh lord. This is exactly the kind of thing that happens when my bard gets anywhere near money, or a place he can't get to, or really some poor sap who looks gullible. Owning a pair of Hedge Wizards' Gloves just makes it all the better.

Swanky party with a guest list?
Rem's the night's entertainment. The other guy canceled.

Just stole something valuable and on the run from the authorities?
A quick prestidigitation and he's a run-of-the-mill peasant. The crook went down a back-alley.

The soldier buys a 'magic' weapon from a 'humble old peddler', but can't get his sorcerer friend to find anything magical about it?
Simple really. The sword has been enchanted to not even register under ordinary magic detection. It once belonged to an assassin of no small notoriety, and getting it through magical checkpoints was an absolute must. When the fighter tries to hit something, the sword 'lights up' with magical green energy, a la a quick prestidigitation.

Of course, there's the business of creating magic items and passing them off as items of a much more powerful enchantment.

And of course there's the occasional poker game. Not like he needs to cheat, but if there's a real need for it, more prestidigitation can solve a great many things.

At this point, his Bluff score is so high that there isn't anything at-level that can really see through him. It's almost a running joke at the table that Rem Archer could lie the pants off a djinn.

If you try to say that djinni don't even wear pants, he will tell you you're being silly and they quite obviously do; they're just hidden under all the swirling wind and fire.
And you will completely and utterly believe him.

[J.Gellert]

Try the fake quest scam... :P

Short version:
Conman A: I need five pink salamander tails to make this super-potion! I will pay you 1000 gold!
Conman B: I am selling pink salamander tails, 100 gold a piece!
Conman A: Dissapears, preferrably with Nondetection.

Works best against parties not likely to just beat up/steal from Conman B.

[Johel]

Rather than a "Magic Weapon spell", couldn't a "Magic Aura" do the trick ?
After all, that's not like the mark is going to kill somebody to test the exact damage output, right ? A masterwork weapon or a magic +1 weapon give the same bonus, so...

Also, I love the book scam.
You can improve it with a Sepia Snake Sigil, Secret Page and Explosive Runes, just to make things look like it DOES belong to a powerful wizard. All of this will give credibility to the whole story.


And of course there's the occasional poker game. Not like he needs to cheat, but if there's a real need for it, more prestidigitation can solve a great many things.

That's what Detect Thoughts is all about.

[ericgrau]

The Fallen Comrade: Difficult to tell if it's anything special just by swinging it. Has to burn an identify regardless. Just standard procedure even if he thinks most of his customers are honest. Better to use a Nystul's magic aura spell and hope he fails his caster level check. But if not...

The Vargathia: Could be done better but doable. Still possible to fail either way even if the conned believes you're telling the truth, he may still want someone to decipher it first or he may not go for such things even when they're true.

So both could be poorly done if you merely roll a couple skill checks and assume the NPC is incapable of thinking for himself. In both cases and just about any con the conned might do some fact checking, unless he's stupid, even if he doesn't believe the PC is lying. But with some clever planning on the part of the PCs to cover any investigation, and some luck, it could be pulled off and should be rewarded.

[BRC]

The Fallen Comrade: The way I imagine it, an experienced fighter can identify a good weapon with a few practice swings. He won't be able to figure out it's exact stats, but he can probably determine the enhancement bonus.
Also, that's the reason you don't do the Fallen Comrade on Arcane casters, in case they try to Identify it. As I said, the ideal Mark is a fighter on their own, they take a few swings, note that it feels like a +1 sword, and hand over the cash.

[Another_Poet]

I believe hostile takeovers (read: invasions) were more common than earning a kingdom.:smallwink:

But granted titles were still more common than simply purchasing a nation outright. The latter happened pretty close to zero times ever (I can't think of any medieval examples, but I'm sure someone can think up one or two.)

[BRC]

But granted titles were still more common than simply purchasing a nation outright. The latter happened pretty close to zero times ever (I can't think of any medieval examples, but I'm sure someone can think up one or two.)
Well Openly purchasing a nation dosn't happen.

Controllign a nation from behind the throne through bribery on the other hand...

[The Random NPC]

The Disappearing X
Requirements: Arcane Mark spell, Instant Summons spell, Spell book. Or item worth mor than 1000 gp.
The Goal: Get many spells from other wizards and have them pay for it. Or to get the Mark to buy an item that disappears when he sets it down.
The Mark: A wizard. Or anyone with more than 1000 gp.
The Plan: Sell a blank spell book to a wizard with a visible Arcane Mark inside the binding. If the wizard casts detect magic, you can easily explain the universal aura as a minor protective enchantment. A few years later, when you feel the wizard has set his spell book down, you Instant Summons it into your hand, getting many spells you may not have. Or sell an item for more than 1000 gp with an Arcane Mark on it to someone, a few days later, when you feel the Mark has set the item down, you Instant Summons it back into your hand. If you leave the Arcane Mark in a visible location you should say it is a mark of quality, similar to a blacksmith’s mark.
Advantages: You are actually selling the item in question so no amount of divinations will indicate otherwise.
Disadvantages: Requires a liberal interpretation of possession, if going with the spell book method, pissing off high level wizards. If not pissing off high level wizards, not getting your money’s worth. Costs a 1000 gp sapphire to pull of scam. Also cost a lot in time compared to just about any other scam.
As you can see this scam is very costly, very risky, and has the potential to not work based on your DM's interpretation of possession, but also has the potential to pay off big. That is until the epic wizard you just stole from comes down with a quickened timestop.

[BRC]

The Disappearing X
Requirements: Arcane Mark spell, Instant Summons spell, Spell book. Or item worth mor than 1000 gp.
The Goal: Get many spells from other wizards and have them pay for it. Or to get the Mark to buy an item that disappears when he sets it down.
The Mark: A wizard. Or anyone with more than 1000 gp.
The Plan: Sell a blank spell book to a wizard with a visible Arcane Mark inside the binding. If the wizard casts detect magic, you can easily explain the universal aura as a minor protective enchantment. A few years later, when you feel the wizard has set his spell book down, you Instant Summons it into your hand, getting many spells you may not have. Or sell an item for more than 1000 gp with an Arcane Mark on it to someone, a few days later, when you feel the Mark has set the item down, you Instant Summons it back into your hand. If you leave the Arcane Mark in a visible location you should say it is a mark of quality, similar to a blacksmith’s mark.
Advantages: You are actually selling the item in question so no amount of divinations will indicate otherwise.
Disadvantages: Requires a liberal interpretation of possession, if going with the spell book method, pissing off high level wizards. If not pissing off high level wizards, not getting your money’s worth. Costs a 1000 gp sapphire to pull of scam. Also cost a lot in time compared to just about any other scam.
As you can see this scam is very costly, very risky, and has the potential to not work based on your DM's interpretation of possession, but also has the potential to pay off big. That is until the epic wizard you just stole from comes down with a quickened timestop.
Ooh, that's a good one. Personally I would go with the second version, Wizards can get very protective of their spellbooks, and can get very very angry if somebody steals it. What's more, they tend to load their spellbooks with all sorts of nasty little tricks. I wouldn't be surprised if what you call back comes alive and eats your face.

Now a valuable item on the other hand is a different matter entierly. Especially if it's something they can't or won't report missing. Something they shouldn't have had in the first place. If it's a powerful enough magic item, the arcane Mark may even be swamped by the Item's aura.

[ericgrau]

Only in round 1. By round 3 the mark becomes visible under a detect magic. Then the victim sees writing on the object which you assure him is a ward. Whether or not he buys that line or erases the writing is up to him.

[The Random NPC]

If putting the Arcane Mark on a spell book, you should put in inside the spine and not invisible so it doesn't glow. They still know that it's a universal cantrip, but they don't know it is an Arcane Mark. They could try tearing the book apart or hiring a bookbinder to do it for them, but then they probably wouldn't have bought the book from you in the first place.
On a related subject, I always thought spell books should detect as magic if it has spells in it, so if you think so as well, just put Arcane Mark in the book as a freebie.
And yes doing it to wizards is akin to a death sentence, but think of all the spells you could learn.

[BRC]

For Arcane Marking other things besides spellbooks, my advice would be don't try to hide it, that will just make the Mark suspicious if they discover it. Unless you summon it back as soon as the Mark has handed over the money and you've gotten a decent distance away.

Here is how I would do the Con, get a magic item that looks like it's seen better days. When you sell it to the Mark, claim that it was created by some famous archmage (You may have to make one up), and so in addition to it's value as a magic item, it has a further intrinsic value in the same way a baseball signed by Babe Ruth has intrinsic value. You show them the Mark, and say "This Mark was placed on the object by the Archmage Vardius, it shows that this is genuine".

Then, you smile, accept his cash, make your way out of town to somewhere the Mark can't find you, and summon it back.


OR, to build up on the Con. Smash one of the Mark's windows when you summon it back, make it look like somebody else broke into his house and took it. You are, of course, very sorry that such a theft occurred, and will certainly do what they can to help you regain your property. They even hire a skilled investigator (Another member of the Crew) who examines the scene, says "Yup, this looks to be the work of the Grey Widow, she specializes in this type of job, I've been after her for years". The "Investigator" then leaves, pursuing a lead, and the Mark, confident that people are working to return his property, sits back and relaxes.

[The Random NPC]

For Arcane Marking other things besides spellbooks, my advice would be don't try to hide it, that will just make the Mark suspicious if they discover it. Unless you summon it back as soon as the Mark has handed over the money and you've gotten a decent distance away.

Here is how I would do the Con, get a magic item that looks like it's seen better days. When you sell it to the Mark, claim that it was created by some famous archmage (You may have to make one up), and so in addition to it's value as a magic item, it has a further intrinsic value in the same way a baseball signed by Babe Ruth has intrinsic value. You show them the Mark, and say "This Mark was placed on the object by the Archmage Vardius, it shows that this is genuine".

Then, you smile, accept his cash, make your way out of town to somewhere the Mark can't find you, and summon it back.

That is exactly what i was going for with the mark of quality thingie. Your way of explaining it is a lot more elequent.

[Karoht]

Here's another one I thought up, good for standard adventuring parties looking to get info on a dungeon

The Scarlabrax

Requirements: A good bluff, any appropriate decorations. Tailor depending on your Mark.
The Mark: Somebody with a secure location you wish to infiltrate or attack. Said location is preferably owned by the occupants, and not part of some larger organization.
Goal: Convince the Mark to show you around their fortress/dungeon.
The Plan: You approach the Mark’s fortress in disguise and state that you work for a “Mister Scarlabrax”. Mister Scarlabrax could be anything, but he’s somebody powerful , capable of rewarding the Mark. Also, his nature should explain why people haven’t heard of him before. Or claim it’s a Pseudonym he works under for illicit deeds. What/whoever Mister Scarlabrax is, he has a very important item, and he’s looking for a secure place to store it. The Mark’s facility came up as an option, and Mister Scarlabrax will, of course, greatly reward the Mark if his facility is used. However, first, Mister Scarlabrax’s subordinate (The Con Artist) needs to inspect the Facility to make sure it is secure enough. Mister Scarlabrax isn’t going to entrust his property to somebody who cannot keep it safe. As such, the Subordinate needs to see the defenses the Mark has, and the personnel he has guarding his compound. If the Mark buys it, the Con should allow himself to be shown around the complex. Provided the Mark actually bought it, this should provide the Con with the layout and defenses, allowing him to plan an attack or infiltration.
After the tour, the Con looks pleased, says “Excellent, I shall recommend you to Mister Scarlabrax, expect to hear from us shortly” and leaves.



Done this one. It's a pseudo-Trojan Horse. But it's effective, if you have the right crowd. Great for surveillance and initial prep before an assault, or a quick assassination job. We used this trick once to basically bring in a teleporation beacon to a place that was majorly warded. Worked like a dream.

[Frosty]

You know...I suddenly have the urge to re-enact Ocean's 11 in DnD...and you could totally do it too. Creative use of Image spells masquerading as Scrying...brilliant.

[Karoht]

You know...I suddenly have the urge to re-enact Ocean's 11 in DnD...and you could totally do it too. Creative use of Image spells masquerading as Scrying...brilliant.
And even if the scrying works, tell them that scrying doesn't hold up in a court of law.

While they think on that, escape.

[Serpentine]

Also, I love the book scam.
You can improve it with a Sepia Snake Sigil, Secret Page and Explosive Runes, just to make things look like it DOES belong to a powerful wizard. All of this will give credibility to the whole story.This one could work extra-well on a couple of levels. You can say in advance, "the previous owner has warded this book in a variety of ways, so I'd make sure you look at it in a safe, secure place with lots of protections in place", or somesuch. This will hopefully prevent the Mark from looking too closely at it at the time. If they do look at it, and they set off a Sigil or Rune, you can say "ah, there you go. You see? I told you. This powerful wizard knew how to protect his book...". Or, you know. Whatever.

As an aside, a variant of this could cover the immoral act thing I mentioned before. Heavily imply that it was obtained unlawfully, and that's why you're so keen to pass it on at such a bargain price. May also explain/be explained by the protections on the book: either the Con-artist doesn't know what she has because she was too worried about the protections to look, or she can't get rid of them herself, possibly making the book worthless to her.

[Jothki]

Try the fake quest scam... :P

Short version:
Conman A: I need five pink salamander tails to make this super-potion! I will pay you 1000 gold!
Conman B: I am selling pink salamander tails, 100 gold a piece!
Conman A: Dissapears, preferrably with Nondetection.

Works best against parties not likely to just beat up/steal from Conman B.

Or to make it more foolproof:
Conman A: I need five pink salamander tails to make this super-potion! I will pay the first person who gets them for me 1000 gold!
Conman B: I am selling pink salamander tails, 100 gold a piece!
Conman C: Oh, were you getting those for the potion? I just got back from giving that guy a bunch of them, he says he doesn't need any more now.
Conman B: No refunds, but if you don't want them any more I'll buy them back for standard half-price (or something else, depending on edition) aftermarket value.

That way, you don't even need to have anyone immediately disappear.