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Darcand
2009-11-23, 12:37 PM
If I cast Greater Magic Weapon on say a +1defending longsword can it use the addition bonuses for defense, or just it's own +1?

Moriato
2009-11-23, 12:43 PM
Well... Defending lets you use some of the weapon's enhancement bonus as a bonus to AC, and greater magic weapon gives a weapon an enhancement bonus, so by RAW I don't see why not.

Now I wouldn't let someone get away with trying to GMW, then use the defending property, then GMW again because "Its enhancement bonus is an ac bonus now". I'd call shenanigans on that one.

Indon
2009-11-23, 01:49 PM
Well... Defending lets you use some of the weapon's enhancement bonus as a bonus to AC, and greater magic weapon gives a weapon an enhancement bonus, so by RAW I don't see why not.

Now I wouldn't let someone get away with trying to GMW, then use the defending property, then GMW again because "Its enhancement bonus is an ac bonus now". I'd call shenanigans on that one.

This, with the added point that if someone casts +5 GMW on a +5 Defending weapon, using the Defending weapon will always decrease the weapon's enhancement bonus - the 'highest bonus' rule applies to the total enhancement bonus that fuels the weapon, and does not make availible a second source of enhancement bonus for the weapon to draw on.

Duke of URL
2009-11-23, 02:53 PM
The RAW seems clear enough. GMW gives the weapon an enchantment bonus. The greater of that bonus or the weapon's permanent bonus is the effective enhancement bonus of the weapon for the duration of the spell.

"Defending" allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the (current) enhancement bonus to his/her AC. The weapon doesn't lose the enhancement bonus, it just applies it differently. Therefore, an additional enhancement bonus can't be "stacked" on it (though a more powerful one could still supersede it).

Commander_Vimes
2009-11-23, 03:06 PM
You can however, by RAW, have Defending Gauntlets, Armor Spikes, and Shield Spikes, cast Greater Magic Weapon on them and have them all stack while wielding a normal melee weapon to full effect. All of the weapons are technically being equipped at once, and the AC bonus from Defending is untyped. This is certainly twisting the rules though.

Duke of URL
2009-11-23, 03:21 PM
You can however, by RAW, have Defending Gauntlets, Armor Spikes, and Shield Spikes, cast Greater Magic Weapon on them and have them all stack while wielding a normal melee weapon to full effect. All of the weapons are technically being equipped at once, and the AC bonus from Defending is untyped. This is certainly twisting the rules though.

It isn't typed and it explicitly says that it stacks with all other bonuses, but I think this still runs afoul of the "same source" rule. At least any sane RAI interpretation would say so.

hamishspence
2009-11-23, 03:31 PM
Multiple speed weapons each grant extra attacks- at least- in the statblocks of creatures equipped with multiple speed weapons, such as Mask from Faiths & Pantheons

So, wouldn't multiple defending weapons (like, for example, two defending swords) provide stacking AC bonuses?

A marilith with 6 defending weapons would be a very nasty opponent using this.

Person_Man
2009-11-23, 03:51 PM
Yup. Though improving your magic armor and/or magic shield (or Gnome Battle Cloak) with the Magic Vestment spell is usually more cost efficient, since magic weapons are more expensive then magic armor/shields.

Riffington
2009-11-23, 05:18 PM
You can however, by RAW, have Defending Gauntlets, Armor Spikes, and Shield Spikes, cast Greater Magic Weapon on them and have them all stack while wielding a normal melee weapon to full effect. All of the weapons are technically being equipped at once, and the AC bonus from Defending is untyped. This is certainly twisting the rules though.

You need to use each one that you want to provide a bonus though so it's better with the marilith

hamishspence
2009-11-23, 05:23 PM
Yup. Though improving your magic armor and/or magic shield (or Gnome Battle Cloak) with the Magic Vestment spell is usually more cost efficient, since magic weapons are more expensive then magic armor/shields.

Usually.

I don't think you can wield 5 shields and 1 weapon and get the benefit from all of these shields though.

In the case of the Marilith, I'm guessing that if you want one with an AC of Lots, +1 defending weapons and liberal use of Greater Magic Weapon is the cheapest way to boost AC up high.