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worthlesston
2009-11-24, 01:33 AM
Greetings, my name is Winthrop, and I am currently playing in my first D&D campaign. I chose a Druid, and opted for the PHB2 shapeshifting variant for a little bit of simplicity. That said, I was looking to create more of a melee friendly druid, and am seeking direction. Currently, I am level 7, with the feats: Knowledge Devotion, Toughness, and Improved Natural Attack: Bite. Next level, ferocious slayer becomes my primary form of choice. However, after 8th level, I'm not sure if it is wise to take two levels of Warshaper. I see the immunity to critical hits, increased weapon sizes, and increased strength and constitution as major bonuses, but, if there are better options I would love to hear them.

Thank you for your time, and feel free to ask me any questions! :smallbiggrin:

sofawall
2009-11-24, 01:36 AM
Greetings, my name is Winthrop, and I am currently playing in my first D&D campaign. I chose a Druid, and opted for the PHB2 shapeshifting variant for a little bit of simplicity. That said, I was looking to create more of a melee friendly druid, and am seeking direction. Currently, I am level 7, with the feats: Knowledge Devotion, Toughness, and Improved Natural Attack: Bite. Next level, ferocious slayer becomes my primary form of choice. However, after 8th level, I'm not sure if it is wise to take two levels of Warshaper. I see the immunity to critical hits, increased weapon sizes, and increased strength and constitution as major bonuses, but, if there are better options I would love to hear them.

Thank you for your time, and feel free to ask me any questions! :smallbiggrin:

Not a good one.

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 01:39 AM
Oh, about that, its worth noting that it's actually house ruled to improved toughness. It is actually 1hp per level, but if you have a better suggestion, I am more than willing to take it under advisement.

All 3.5e supplements are fair game if it helps.

Toliudar
2009-11-24, 01:39 AM
From a purely mechanical point of view, I'd rather have the two levels of spellcasting and the shapeshift progression that sticking with druid offers.

In combat situations, do you spend more of your time casting spells, or attacking in a shapeshifted form?

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 01:40 AM
My party is largely spellcasters, so I am typically on the front lines keeping foes away from the squishier characters.

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 01:46 AM
Generally when I play a druid it is because I love summoning minions to do all of my dirty work, however it seems that you are going more for the rawr smash approach.

If the DM will allow it multi attack might be a good choice since it reduces the penalties on subsequent natural attacks.

Another thing to consider is possibly going quarterstaff grapple druid with entangling staff (this is a spell not a feat). It is a swift buff you can cast on a quarter staff that lets you get in a free grapple check with a nice bonus each time you successfully bonk who ever you are fighting. I believe you would still get to maul them with your bite attack afterwards since it is a natural attack.

if the DM will let you greenbound summoning is always fun :smallyuk:. I don't think they will let you though

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 01:50 AM
Yes indeed, rawr smash is approximately the effect I was aiming for. I am sure my DM will allow multiattack, considering this question has come up in the past, and I will probably pick that up at level 9. I had not considered quarterstaff druid before, but I will certainly look into that. Is this a spell that works if you are shapeshifting variant druid? That is to say, if you do entangle a target, and you become unable to cast spells (shifting in my case) does the spell break?

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 02:01 AM
In order to be able to use the quarterstaff while shifted you will need to put a wildling clasp on it. This is a magic item that prevents whatever it is attached to from shifting into your form. I believe it costs 4000g. You can find it in the magic items compendium

After that as long as you have hands to hold the stick with you should be fine. If you cast the spell and then shift you will be able to use the spell as long as the duration lasts.

If you were planning on using more spells I would recommend natural spell (lets you cast while wild shaped).

sofawall
2009-11-24, 02:02 AM
In order to be able to use the quarterstaff while shifted you will need to put a wildling clasp on it. This is a magic item that prevents whatever it is attached to from shifting into your form. I believe it costs 4000g. You can find it in the magic items compendium

After that as long as you have hands to hold the stick with you should be fine. If you cast the spell and then shift you will be able to use the spell as long as the duration lasts.

If you were planning on using more spells I would recommend natural spell (lets you cast while wild shaped).

He isn't using wildshape.

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 02:03 AM
So talk to the dm, same principle should apply. I am aware that phb 2 says otherwise but I have also found my dms open to negotiation on that point.

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 02:04 AM
Yes, as Sofawall pointed out, being PHB2 shapeshift variant I do not technically wildshape. Thus, I cannot use Natural Spell, nor do I qualify for wild feats, nor am I capable of using wilding clasps (which the dm said he would not allow anyways).

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 02:06 AM
well that is a bother

Ok so cast the spell drop the stick shift then pick up the stick again. This would be temporary any way since I don't think you will be able to justify a bear being able to hold a stick :p

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 02:09 AM
Considering that none of the forms I can shapeshift into have dextrous hands, I doubt the dm would allow this. That said, I may take the feat Snatch (from Masters of the Wild), which grants grapple as a free action in the event a claw or bite hits (with the added benefit of being able to chuck the opposition for extra damage and moving them into aoe attacks from the ranged).

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-24, 02:12 AM
Considering that none of the forms I can shapeshift into have dextrous hands, I doubt the dm would allow this. That said, I may take the feat Snatch (from Masters of the Wild), which grants grapple as a free action in the event a claw or bite hits (with the added benefit of being able to chuck the opposition for extra damage and moving them into aoe attacks from the ranged).

Snatch is in the Monster Manual. It has a size issue. You may consider other abilities.

Really, for a bash and smash druid, you're better off with a Wildshape druid 5 / Warshaper 5 / Master of Many Forms 7 / Druid +3.

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 02:14 AM
I now remember why I have only ever done a shifter druid once :smallbiggrin:

Touch of Golden ice is really nice if the things you are going up against don't have much in the way of fortitude saves.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-24, 02:20 AM
The shifter Druid is best used for caster-focus druids.

Wildshape MoMF is much less complex, as you have less spell complexity. You'll have a lot of forms, and a lot of beefy beefiness, which will help the feel of the bash and smash.

When going for a class, and enhancing it to be a melee version, you don't start by choosing the absolute weakest melee option for the class.

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 02:21 AM
Thank you for the input. I was planning something similar to what PhoenixRivers had suggested, only it was more along the lines of shifter druid 8/ warshaper 4 / ?? The last part is sortof a mystery, but the campaign is sadly spread out (giving me plenty of time to prepare). Assuming that it is too late to change back to wildshape druid, are there any recommendations beyond Warshaper?

Touch of Golden Ice does seem wonderful on inspection though.

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 02:22 AM
I know this is a bit off topic but how is shifter druid better for casting druids? According to rules a written you cant cast spells when shapeshifted even with natural spell.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-24, 02:25 AM
Thank you for the input. I was planning something similar to what PhoenixRivers had suggested, only it was more along the lines of shifter druid 8/ warshaper 4 / ?? The last part is sortof a mystery, but the campaign is sadly spread out (giving me plenty of time to prepare). Assuming that it is too late to change back to wildshape druid, are there any recommendations beyond Warshaper?

Touch of Golden Ice does seem wonderful on inspection though.

Shifter Druid 8/Wildshape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 7.

Heh.


I know this is a bit off topic but how is shifter druid better for casting druids? According to rules a written you cant cast spells when shapeshifted even with natural spell.
Because if you're gonna erase the thing that makes melee druids meleeable, you may as well not use shifter, and stick to spells.

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 02:29 AM
An interesting choice. I am interested by favored enemy, but, I just asked my DM, and he said that Master of Many Forms is not gonna happen. Apparently, the last group he DM-ed for had a MoMF, who tried every encounter to assume the form of creatures of collosal size (with alot of ruling rigamarole that allowed for size increases to stack). He said, and I quote: "Not a chance in any plane of existence that I DM for you."

Seems like a hard sell =[

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-24, 02:33 AM
An interesting choice. I am interested by favored enemy, but, I just asked my DM, and he said that Master of Many Forms is not gonna happen. Apparently, the last group he DM-ed for had a MoMF, who tried every encounter to assume the form of creatures of collosal size (with alot of ruling rigamarole that allowed for size increases to stack). He said, and I quote: "Not a chance in any plane of existence that I DM for you."

Seems like a hard sell =[

Size increases don't stack. Ever. So that was someone hoodwinking him.

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 02:38 AM
Master of Many Forms isn't anywhere near as broken as druids can get.

*cough*planar shepherd *cough*

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-24, 02:39 AM
Yup. MoMF is actually a Power DECREASE for druids.

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 02:40 AM
Heh, Planar Shephard. Oh my that class is just silly. Logistically, that its allowed makes me giggle.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-24, 02:43 AM
Then I'd shift your focus. Go for Animal Companion Buffing. Enlarge it, ride it, buff it to the high heavens, and go to town.

Mahtobedis
2009-11-24, 02:47 AM
I can't really think of anything better then what pheonixrivers listed.

If the Dm won't let you take MoMF then the next best thing is to make a truly power animal companion by buffing and name it Buttercup.

The name would be to get vengeance on the DM by having his monsters torn apart by something named Buttercup.

worthlesston
2009-11-24, 10:13 AM
Thank you very much, sounds like a wonderful plan, with regards to the enlarged animal companion. Considering the amount of buffs at my disposal, its probably going to be ridiculous, considering there really isn't other melee to buff. A wonderful compromise indeed!

Leon
2009-11-24, 11:20 AM
Only way your going to get a AC with Shapeshift is to take the Wild Cohort feat