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kjones
2009-11-24, 05:27 PM
From time to time, threads will pop up asking, "I'm planning on running Red Hand of Doom. What should I change?" The answer is, "A lot of things, probably", but in my opinion, the part of the module most in need of modification is the treasure placement. Having run this module and struggled with appropriate allocation of treasure, I'm putting together this guide to help others who want to run this module get a better sense of how to change treasure placement to best serve their campaigns.*

There are several problems with the types and amounts of treasure to be found in Red Hand of Doom. Most of the treasures are clearly intended for the standard fighter-wizard-cleric-rogue party - many of us have PCs whose roles are not so clear-cut. Some of the treasures are not level-appropriate for their place within the campaign. (For example, there's a +2-equivalent bastard sword in an encounter for 5th-level characters.) Finally, the treasures as written are simply not very imaginative - if treasure placement is run as written, your entire party will end up with gauntlets of ogre power +2. Partially, this is deliberate. The module is written to be mostly core-only, and there's not that much variety in core. However, for those who have access to the Magic Item Compendium (among other books), there are a lot more opportunities to be creative with treasure placement.

So, this guide will be written for those who have access to non-core books and are looking to make the Red Hand of Doom module more interesting for their players. I will point out that the best treasures are ones that you cherry-pick for your players, and ones that will become useful in interesting ways throughout the rest of the module. So what I'll do here is list MIC-equivalent levels, suggest ways to distribute them, and note specific items that might be useful (and in some cases, that I used.)

Note that this guide is not intended to rework the equipment of NPCs in the module. It's kind of boring that your party will probably end up with a bunch of useless sets of +1 armor and weapons, since they're standard issue for some types of NPCs, but tweaking all that treasure would also mean re-working many major NPCs, which is beyond the scope of this guide. So I might mention specific pieces of gear held by specific NPCs, but by and large I'm going to leave that stuff alone - you should modify it if you modify the NPCs themselves. (And I certainly recommend doing so.)

One note about WBL: RHoD is somewhat front-loaded as far as treasure goes. There's a lot of it in chapters 1 and 2, and not much in chapters 3 and 4. WBL is, and always has been, a guideline, and nothing more. So I'm going to try to hew fairly closely to the values of the treasures as presented in the module - I think the front-loading is deliberate and a good decision.

Chapter 0
Regardless of whether your party developed organically or started at 5th level, there's a decent chance that they will have +1 weapons and/or armor at this point. If they do, focus more on minor, miscellaneous items; if they don't, they probably should by the time they hit 6th or 7th level. As you will see, there will be ample opportunities to do so.

Chapter 1
Marauder Attack: There's some gold in a burned-out farmhouse nearby. The party may be in need of hard coin to spend in town, so I'd leave this as is.

If your party knows what's what, they'll loot the bodies - this will be the first of many times in which they will end up with what is commonly referred to as "vendor trash". Sigh.

Blackwater Causeway: The infamous hydra. In the mud, there's a +1 mithral breastplate. 9th level (!) This is a really good item for a bard, along with a barbarian or any other front-liner who values movement or can't wear heavy armor - but it's a lot of treasure to give to one character this early on. You can swap it out for 2 7th-level items - consider an adamantine weapon (useful for destroying the bridge) or a lesser metamagic rod (useful for pretty much everything).

Vraath Keep: This is a biggie. The manticore has some gold and trade goods - leave it, it's what a manticore would have.

Koth has a bag of holding. You want the players to get this, if at all possible. Bags of holding enable all sorts of creative possibilities.

In the vault:
Staff of Life
Huge Spiked Gauntlet +1
Gauntlets of Ogre Power 8th level
+1 frost bastard sword 11th level
and the equivalent of 3,550 gp.

I would recommend leaving in the staff of life, as your players will not have access to resurrections for most of the campaign - this allows them the chance to make a mistake. Once.

Similarly, the spiked gauntlet is important for plot reasons.

The problem with the sword is that it's a type of weapon that most characters can't use, and it's too powerful. You'll be giving the fighter-type a massive boost and leaving everyone else in the lurch. My suggestion is to break it down into two 7th-level items (approximately +1 weapons or +2 armor) and a 9th-level item (an immovable rod is great for this). To keep the +1 weapons from being boring, throw in some weapon crystals - least truedeath will come in very useful, a sort of Chekov's Gun if you will.

Alternately, if you're interested in using legacy weapon rules (I know - but there are some real masochists out there) this is an excellent place to introduce such a weapon.

Turn the 8th-level item into a wand with 10 charges of some 3rd-level spell that your party lacks, and put the rest of the treasure towards whoever still doesn't have anything.

When choosing treasure here, try to figure out items that will make the battle for Skull Gorge Bridge more interesting. I gave out a ring of feather falling, with excellent results.

Skull Gorge Bridge: All the notable treasure here is equipment of either Ozyrrandion or the hobgoblins. Leave it as it is, but if you feel like you sold the players short in the vault at Vraath's Keep, you can put a "mini-horde" on the far side of the bridge. If they take out the bridge before searching the tower, they'll have fun finding this stash...


Chapter 2
Impending

Chapter 3
Impending

Chapter 4
Impending

Chapter 5
Impending

Suggestions are, as always, appreciated.

*There was an excellent thread on the WotC boards that did something similar, but as far as I can tell, it disappeared in the Great Upheaval.

kjones
2009-11-24, 08:03 PM
Added Chapter 1 - this post reserved for future updates.

Thurbane
2009-11-24, 09:09 PM
I still LMAO every time I think of the vault - my character was a Cleric of St Cuthbert, but I had taken EWP: Bastard Sword...the DM was almost sure I had cheated and read the module, but it was just dumb luck! :smallbiggrin:

Milskidasith
2009-11-24, 09:15 PM
I'm not really sure why you think that, at seventh level, a +1 Frost bastard sword is overpowering; it's +1d6 damage on a normal +1 weapon, which isn't much at all. Plus, it's an exotic weapon most people wouldn't use... it's probably vendor trash for most people.

Seatbelt
2009-11-24, 09:32 PM
I often refluff items to fit the PC they're intended for. The +1 Fullplate of Awesome is clearly designed for the party tank. But in game x the party tank is a barbarian. So its +1 Breastplate of Awesome. That Frost Bastard Sword has been a Greatsword and a Longbow in two different games I've run. I'e never actually handed it out as a bastardsword.

In Ravenloft, the Sun Sword was almost a fullblade, but the party decided to give it to the character who actually used that type of weapon, so I left it alone.

d13
2009-11-24, 09:44 PM
kjones, I freakin' love you xD.

I'm having a hard time refluffing the loot and NPCs for my group, so this is the best I could hope for.

AslanCross
2009-11-24, 11:04 PM
I'm not really sure why you think that, at seventh level, a +1 Frost bastard sword is overpowering; it's +1d6 damage on a normal +1 weapon, which isn't much at all. Plus, it's an exotic weapon most people wouldn't use... it's probably vendor trash for most people.

I don't think it's that it's overpowered---I think it's because it is high-level (at least following MIC's guidelines) vendor trash that could otherwise have been broken up into cheaper, far more useful items.

Gpope
2009-11-24, 11:24 PM
What's the big deal with the bastard sword? A greatsword-wielder can pick it up and wield the bastard sword with no penalty. Sure, it's weaker than a greatsword or other true two-hander... which is neatly offset by it being a pretty potent magical item for that level, yes? Compare 2d6 vs. 1d10+1d6.

If someone did happen to pick up exotic weapon proficiency for one-handing it, well, congratulations. Your prize for picking a crappy feat is a sword that's somewhat cooler than you could expect to get at this level.

Myshlaevsky
2009-11-24, 11:46 PM
What's the big deal with the bastard sword? A greatsword-wielder can pick it up and wield the bastard sword with no penalty. Sure, it's weaker than a greatsword or other true two-hander... which is neatly offset by it being a pretty potent magical item for that level, yes? Compare 2d6 vs. 1d10+1d6.

If someone did happen to pick up exotic weapon proficiency for one-handing it, well, congratulations. Your prize for picking a crappy feat is a sword that's somewhat cooler than you could expect to get at this level.

I think most groups would rather have kjones' suggestion of multiple, useful magic items replacing one underwhelming-but-high-level sword. It's not that it's too strong, it's that it's not good treasure.

arguskos
2009-11-25, 12:09 AM
What's the big deal with the bastard sword? A greatsword-wielder can pick it up and wield the bastard sword with no penalty. Sure, it's weaker than a greatsword or other true two-hander... which is neatly offset by it being a pretty potent magical item for that level, yes? Compare 2d6 vs. 1d10+1d6.

If someone did happen to pick up exotic weapon proficiency for one-handing it, well, congratulations. Your prize for picking a crappy feat is a sword that's somewhat cooler than you could expect to get at this level.
The other thing is that the greatsworder doesn't get to use his nifty nifty feats for greatswords on that bastard sword, even if it IS alright.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-25, 12:12 AM
Weapon Aptitude.
Or take feats that aren't greatsword-specific, because IIRC there aren't too many of them that are great.

kjones
2009-11-25, 02:24 AM
What's the big deal with the bastard sword? A greatsword-wielder can pick it up and wield the bastard sword with no penalty. Sure, it's weaker than a greatsword or other true two-hander... which is neatly offset by it being a pretty potent magical item for that level, yes? Compare 2d6 vs. 1d10+1d6.

If someone did happen to pick up exotic weapon proficiency for one-handing it, well, congratulations. Your prize for picking a crappy feat is a sword that's somewhat cooler than you could expect to get at this level.

My problem isn't so much with the sword as with the fact that you're giving one player this sweet item, and everyone else gets nothing. I think it's much more preferable to "share the love", so to speak. Especially if you consider that the original treasure is this sword, plus gauntlets of ogre strength... in most parties, those would both go straight to the fighter-type. And everyone else is left sitting around like the red-headed stepchild on Christmas morning.

The other problem is that if they do treat it as "vendor trash", which they may very well do, since as you point out it's not all that much better than a greatsword +1 (although good luck finding anyone in the Vale with enough coin to pay market value... I suppose you could barter) then it's a lot more money then they should have at that point. That sword is worth more than all the rest of the treasure in Chapter 1 combined.

Also, I forgot to mention this originally, but Vraath Keep is a great place to introduce a legacy weapon, should you so desire. (Why you would is beyond my ken - but I've been toying with homebrewed legacy weapon rules for sometime, so there you go.) I don't want to sidetrack this thread into a discussion of legacy weapons - I'm simply noting that this fits, plot- and level-wise.

Doc Roc
2009-11-25, 02:41 AM
I'm not really sure why you think that, at seventh level, a +1 Frost bastard sword is overpowering; it's +1d6 damage on a normal +1 weapon, which isn't much at all. Plus, it's an exotic weapon most people wouldn't use... it's probably vendor trash for most people.

Full agreement. A +1 Frost Bastard sword would go straight to the vendor in almost any party I've ever run with or GM'd for. I think that since you (as above mentioned) think many groups will vendor trash it, you may just wish to offer gold or some sort of magical IoU here. The issue is that people really don't have time to shop in RHoD, but you would like to give them a chance, just once or twice, to really choose some items. The vault seems like it might be a good way to do this. Rationalize it with some sort of puzzle or almost-broken forge engine.