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Myrmex
2009-11-25, 12:13 AM
Our low level adventuring party (currently 500 xp from level 5) recently broke an orc/gnoll slaving operation, and freed a tribe of about 70 goblins (+women & children). They are starving in the woods, and their homeland has been depopulated of wildlife by their rapacious former overlords.

They're forest goblins (not from UA, they just live there). They're chaotic neutral, cowardly, highly religious, and tribal. They have a lot of potential, and dwell in an immense forest that the DM has described as "frikkin huge". However, they are probably all level 1 commoners atm, but the DM has told us that we can teach them stuff. Our hobgoblin psychic warrior is in charge of them, as their chieftain. The goblins had been conducting raids on travelers, but their new chieftain has ordered them to stop (and it has). The goblins are allies with wargs. Between goblin & warg spies, we will know everything that passes along the road.

Our current plan is to build them up to a force that can defend itself, from both self-righteous non-monstrous races, and evil forces that want cheap, smart labor. Our long term goal is to collect non-evil misfit creatures and unite the goblin clans under one banner and become a regional plan.

In the short term, we're going to start a merchant company to disguise our activities with the tribe. We're going to have them "raid" our caravans for supplies that we'll send out to them. We're contemplating having some sort of insurance scam with that, or perhaps have them hit rival caravans. Unsure how nefarious we want to be. At the very least, with our newfound wealth, we can reinvest it into trading and use the guise as traders to mask our movements against the myriad factions we've likely pissed off. We DO have the backing of a huge, beaurucratic, mage guild/academy that loves money & trinkets. We don't really trust them, though, because they are composed of seriously powerful wizards that could pop over and take what they want from us, even if the two halfling wizards are attending school at their university (you ever have to tell a long dead creature that the reason you're in his tomb is for a "school project"?).

After we get the goblins to erect a barracks & wall, we're going to try and get them to cut fire wood, harvest magical components, and make potions for us & to sell. Oh, and we're also rolling up new characters (mostly goblinoids) to be goblin leaders while our other characters go on adventure.

I think that's all the relevant information.



tl; dr version
What would you guys do with a fledgling goblin tribe with absolutely no resources in a large forest next to a major trade hub & powerful mage academy?

Vitruviansquid
2009-11-25, 12:17 AM
"What could you do with a bunch of young men who can only bang their heads all day?"

"You start a revolution, Lars."


Personally, I'm in favor of a mass exodus to a rich and fertile land... where we subjugate and enslave the defenseless natives

mikeejimbo
2009-11-25, 12:18 AM
My first thought on reading the title was "Interbreed!"

I have a messed up mind.

Saintheart
2009-11-25, 12:44 AM
Teach a goblin to fish, and you feed him for a day.
Give a goblin a gun ... aaand the whole metaphor breaks down. :smallbiggrin:

Narazil
2009-11-25, 12:53 AM
Teach a goblin to fish, and you feed him for a day.
Wait, what? :smallconfused:

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-25, 01:02 AM
Hmm... Well if I could keep the rest of the party from killing them (racists), I'd try to help them.

Start off with teaching them some of the basics of survival so they can stay fed and sheltered, then I'd get a few hundred gold worth of tools. Trapping, lumbar and herbs would have to be the first steps to financial stability, as I'd want to avoid any semblance of hostility.

A fortified village would have to be made. As would a small trading outpost close to the main road.

Myshlaevsky
2009-11-25, 01:03 AM
Wait, what? :smallconfused:

Goblins eat a lotta fish.

Jayngfet
2009-11-25, 01:05 AM
Build up a fortress and apoint your most loyal goblin in charge, after teaching him how to keep rebellion from you down. Now you have a base to bring important NPC's back to that would know of attack in advance.

Optimystik
2009-11-25, 01:16 AM
Teach a goblin to fish, and you feed him for a day.
Give a goblin a gun ... aaand the whole metaphor breaks down. :smallbiggrin:

You forgot: Have a goblin take 5 levels in cleric, and 915 of them eat forever.

BobVosh
2009-11-25, 01:17 AM
Teach a goblin to fish, and you feed him for a day.
Give a goblin a gun ... aaand the whole metaphor breaks down. :smallbiggrin:

Give the goblin a gun and he gains levels. Then he puts ranks into survival and the tribe eats forever.

Jergmo
2009-11-25, 01:25 AM
Teach some of the goblins about herbalism, over time gather herbs that can be used for medicine/poison/magical components/etc. and start a botany garden in the village for profit. Also, since you have little in the way of farmland, they could at least facilitate food growth with mini hanging gardens from tree branches, as well as harvesting fruit trees and bushes. It's not a perfect solution, but it helps to assuage the problem.

Shyftir
2009-11-25, 02:11 AM
70 goblins huh? hmmm sounds like a lot of potential exp...
I kid, I kid.

Train them, then start a mercenary band. When they've gained enough levels to become self-sufficient destroy some well made bandit camp with your gobbo buddies' help. Help them get a society going and then walla permanent extremely friendly outpost and base of operations with minions.

Crafty Cultist
2009-11-25, 03:10 AM
Buildings could be noticable to travellers in the forest. an underground burrow would be more covert and the goblin's darkvision negates the need for light sources. narrow tunnels also allow tuckers kobold-esque defensive tactics.

averagejoe
2009-11-25, 03:24 AM
Step 1: Goblins steal underpants.

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit.


70 goblins huh? hmmm sounds like a lot of potential exp...

Sure, now. If, however, you help them survive and allow them to breed, somehow controlling the population...

dsmiles
2009-11-25, 05:39 AM
Teach a goblin to fish, and you feed him for a day.
Give a goblin a gun ... aaand the whole metaphor breaks down. :smallbiggrin:

No, sorry...give a goblin a gun...aaand you've got 40k...:smallbiggrin:


http://kofler.dot.at/40k/units/Ork_Grotz.gif


Seriously, I once enslaved an entire tribe of kobolds. You know in the 3e adventure Sunless Citadel? Yeah, that tribe. A 3rd level LE Hextor-worshipping-Blackguard-in-progress with his own slave population to mine out the area, and restore the citadel.

I know, I know...that's not the way it's supposed to go, but my groups have always been a little sandboxy. Following the takeover of the citadel, we managed to take over the nearby town economically (slave labor in the mines means we sold that ore at about 80% profit). We drove their miners out of business by undercutting their prices, and our cleric offed the mayor, and I was elected.

But that's neither here nor there. An evil party would keep the goblins as slaves, and do something like that. Alternatively, a CE party would probably just kill all of them. A neutral party might have them build a town, and rule it as their mayor, but they would be free citizens of the town. A good party would teach them skills and give them enough money and food to last until they could form their own economy. All of it is good RP and should be rewarded with XP.

bosssmiley
2009-11-25, 07:56 AM
Gobbo Fortress, Deathtrap Dungeon Challenge. :smallbiggrin:

(with 70 starting characters its like playing on easy mode!)

T.G. Oskar
2009-11-25, 08:04 AM
First, is there a cleric that can make daily divinations? Of the kind of "will this goblin die horribly?"

Second, is your party composed, aside from the PsyWar, of a: Barbarian, Monk, Cleric, Paladin, 1/11th of every class in the PHB?

Third, do they protect a poorly locked and untrapped treasure with a simple +1 short sword?

Have you found a cave with zombies, but they aren't zombies but rather other kinds of mindless and ravenous creatures? Perhaps plant-life?

Is one of your goblin-racist friends a Ranger with both TWF and Archery, and has as favored enemies goblinoids?

If you say yes to any of the abovementioned (or even if you say no to all of the above), this is a good thing to do with a goblin camp (http://goblins.keenspot.com/).

ravenkith
2009-11-25, 08:27 AM
There is a low level spell called wall of salt. Creates permenant salt....

Check the prices of salt in the phb....

Use this to start a trading economy for your gobbos.

dsmiles
2009-11-25, 08:44 AM
There is a low level spell called wall of salt. Creates permenant salt....

Check the prices of salt in the phb....

Use this to start a trading economy for your gobbos.

However, you must be careful. If you flood the market, the price will plummet...:smalltongue:

ravenkith
2009-11-25, 08:59 AM
However, you must be careful. If you flood the market, the price will plummet...:smalltongue:

Pfeh, by the time the market catches up to your shenannigans, you'll already have your seed money fro grander projects (read: lumber/paper mill)

Come on, it's a HUGE frikkin forest waiting to be exploited carefully nurtured as it is turned into useful materials?

dsmiles
2009-11-25, 09:09 AM
No, I'm a republican. Soooo...exploited is the proper word. :smallwink:

Lapak
2009-11-25, 09:50 AM
...my first, instinctive response was

"what would you do with a tribe of goblins?
what would you do with a tribe of goblins?
what would you do with a tribe of goblins
early in the morn-ing!

Stick 'em in a longboat until they're sober...."

Based on that, I'm going to say that you have the ideal number of goblins to train as the crew of a privateer. If you're near a body of water, they can become self-sufficient that way, and it plays against type. No one expects goblin pirates!

dsmiles
2009-11-25, 10:06 AM
I'm afraid they do...:smallbiggrin:


http://www.reapermini.com/graphics/gallery/4/03211_G.jpg

FinalJustice
2009-11-25, 10:28 AM
Get your 5th level?

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-25, 11:35 AM
I'm afraid they do...:smallbiggrin:


http://www.reapermini.com/graphics/gallery/4/03211_G.jpg


Goblins Ahoy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EF47ny4gBw)

Zovc
2009-11-25, 11:56 AM
I'd definitely like to "nurture" them into a domesticated settlement, preferably one where I would be loyalty, or treated like it.

What? I'm Lawful Evil? No way! I'm doing it for them, so it's Neutral Good! Altruism, I swear!

Tyndmyr
2009-11-25, 12:02 PM
tl; dr version
What would you guys do with a fledgling goblin tribe with absolutely no resources in a large forest next to a major trade hub & powerful mage academy?

Pie. Delicious goblin pie.

LibraryOgre
2009-11-25, 02:24 PM
My suggestion would be forest husbandry.

They have a lot of forest. With a few wood axes, some rope, and some block and tackle, they can not only build their own homes, but also produce timber and/or charcoal for sale. Use human or semi-human intermediaries to sell it in the human markets, while women and children gather food and the like from the forest. I'd suggest half-elves, if you have access to any, for the intermediaries... they're well-trusted, generally, but can do the mercenary line.

It's a legitimate enterprise, and using human or semi-human intermediaries to sell the stuff means you have to worry less about racism. There's plenty of material around, and careful husbandry should let a small band thrive.

Stycotl
2009-11-25, 05:34 PM
I'd definitely like to "nurture" them into a domesticated settlement, preferably one where I would be loyalty, or treated like it.

What? I'm Lawful Evil? No way! I'm doing it for them, so it's Neutral Good! Altruism, I swear!

loyalty, huh? nothing like allegiance to the loyal crown...

JonestheSpy
2009-11-25, 05:54 PM
I'm actually a little surprised at the lack of interesting ideas with so many responses. Sounds like a great basis for a campaign to me - but hey, I'm a Civilization addict.

Yeah, as a couple of folks have said, the group is not without resources at all, they're in the middle of a huge forest.

First, buy them decent tools so they can take advantage of said resources.

Second, see if any of them might have any talent ofa druidical nature, and find someone to train them. Forest, y'know...

Really, what a lot of it boils down to is how your DM handles training. Thre should be some mechanism for creating Experts and Warriors ot of commoners aside from them miraculously accumulating enough XP to be a Commoner 1/Expert 1 or whatever. Hmm, you might have to gather enough resources to build a Training Academy - no,no, forget I said that, wrong game type.

Fhaolan
2009-11-25, 06:05 PM
Problem is, no matter what you do, if you make them flourish you're going to have a bunch of adventurers come round and wipe them out.

Alignment has nothing to do with it. It's a 'Build it and they will come' problem. No matter what it is; a citadel, a village, a freaking *coat rack*, as long as it's in a fixed location someone in the campaign world will want to destroy it.

Zovc
2009-11-25, 06:11 PM
loyalty, huh? nothing like allegiance to the loyal crown...

I said preferably! I mean, it's not like there's any motivation to be nice to the person who freed you from slavery and gave you the knowledge and skills needed to live on your own. It's... no big deal if they don't treat me like a king, really! Totally cool with that...

*smashes a random item on his way out*

chiasaur11
2009-11-25, 06:17 PM
Goblins?

Well, you could send them to Ankh Morpork to work at the unseen university.

Can't guarantee anything, mind...

Logalmier
2009-11-25, 06:56 PM
Teach a goblin to fish, and you feed him for a day.
Give a goblin a gun ... aaand the whole metaphor breaks down. :smallbiggrin:

Give a goblin 10 gp, and he's rich for one day of his life.
Give a goblin a ladder, and he's the wealthiest man alive.

taltamir
2009-11-25, 07:05 PM
1. Rename cheiftain into king, set down laws for your kingdom, accept anyone of any race. Make it very clear to the goblins that you ONLY eat dumb ANIMALS; not other sentients, not even if they are already dead.
2. Have them build an actual VILLAGE and start a farming operation
3. Build a school, all young goblins go there to learn how to properly farm, fight, check for magic talent, and the laws of the land, etc... Hire a few teachers from nearby towns.
4. Start trade with nearby human towns.
5. Adventure to rescue more goblinoids to live in your village, to forge ties with nearby kingdoms, etc...

I mean, what do you expect to do with them?
If you want to exploit the hell out of them in the short term... Select an alignment you wish them to be. Select a were creature of said alignment. Get one to infect you, then go around and infect the entire town. Make a big ceremony about it. Whenever you shift, willingly or due to full moon, you will have to roll a will save or be permanantly changed to the alignment of the were-creature, and act it out..
So were wolves act chaotic evil in wolf form (unless they made their will save, but EVENTUALLY they fail it). Were BEARS act... ALWAYS LAWFUL GOOD!
So yes... there is a "were paladin" out there called the were bear.

Yahzi
2009-11-25, 10:22 PM
Make cheeseburgers?

Otherwise... 70 goblins isn't really that many. A typical Knightly fief had 250-1000 peasants or more. You don't have a kingdom; you barely have enough servants to staff a Baronial castle.

I recommend arming the goblins with crude weapons, letting them burn a few peasant huts, and then recruiting brave young men from the town to root out the goblins. Give your humans better weapons, and hire the ones that survive.

Now you have the beginnings of an army. Which is, as always, the beginnings of a kingdom. :smallsmile:

Myshlaevsky
2009-11-25, 10:24 PM
...servants to staff a Baronial castle.

I second Yahzi's excellent suggestion.

Myrmex
2009-11-26, 08:48 PM
Goblins update:
We were losing goblins to giant spiders in forest, so we hunted the spiders down, uncovered some sort of plot, killed the evil creature that was controlling them, stole their eggs for the goblins to raise for spider mounts, and brought back huge spider venom for the village shaman to work with. All the dead spider corpses are being turned into food. Now that there's no malign intelligence guiding the spiders' behavior, the goblins can begin hunting them as a food source. Our brave actions have rallied the goblins, and they are becoming more active in defending themselves.

We've got the goblins relocated to the top of an old crypt we cleared out. The crypt is going to make the foundation of a wizards tower/keep we're planning on building at the site. The goblin's town hall, at the moment, is a large cave that has the entrance to crypt. The goblins are currently setting up a barricade for defense, and clearing trees. Seeing spiders the size of elephants carrying off their friends has motivated them a bit.

The goblins are also welcome to moving into the crypt, for now. They are down their studying the traps to learn how to make their own. The crypt will probably serve as a fortress, should raiders come raiding.

We've also discovered a ton of ruins in the forest, which we will probably begin cannibalizing for, well, everything.

Does anyone know the generation time of a goblin?

Coidzor
2009-11-26, 09:24 PM
What would you guys do with a fledgling goblin tribe with absolutely no resources in a large forest next to a major trade hub & powerful mage academy?

Large forest + no resources does not compute....

Myrmex
2009-11-26, 09:26 PM
Large forest + no resources does not compute....

You are naked.
There is a tree.

Do you have resources?
No; you are naked next to a tree.

Myshlaevsky
2009-11-26, 09:29 PM
You are naked.
There is a tree.

Do you have resources?
No; you are naked next to a tree.

That just sounds suspicious.

chiasaur11
2009-11-26, 11:58 PM
I still say you have the goblins dribble candles at the mage academy.

There's precedent.

LibraryOgre
2009-11-27, 02:39 AM
You are naked.
There is a tree.

Do you have resources?
No; you are naked next to a tree.

Is there a rock? I break it against another rock so I have a cutting edge. Not great, but better than being naked.

Is there a smaller tree? Can I push that tree over?


Is there a broken tree limb? Will it function as a club?

Do not lose sight of the forest for the trees... even naked, there's a fair amount you can do in the forest.

SaintRidley
2009-11-27, 02:41 AM
:xykon: Sacrifice minions!

Subotei
2009-11-27, 04:53 AM
Has anyone asked the goblins what they want to do? Perhaps they want a liberal democracy with elected leaders. There's nothing like rule imposed from outside to ferment revolution....

Acanous
2009-11-27, 06:18 AM
Pick up the Stronghold Builder's Guide.

Build yourself an underground citadel out of that crypt.

Train up the goblins and get them some better equiptment (a few minor magic items, a wand of CLW and such). Trap the HELL out of the new citadel, and have your wizard cast Contingeancy on each of you- that you'll be teleported back to your fortress if any non-goblinoid sets off a trap.

Keep all your loot from questing there. Sooner rather than later, some bandits are going to come a 'raiding.

It's like a farm, for XPs.
ta daa

Myshlaevsky
2009-11-27, 06:27 AM
Pick up the Stronghold Builder's Guide.

Build yourself an underground citadel out of that crypt.

Train up the goblins and get them some better equiptment (a few minor magic items, a wand of CLW and such). Trap the HELL out of the new citadel, and have your wizard cast Contingeancy on each of you- that you'll be teleported back to your fortress if any non-goblinoid sets off a trap.

Keep all your loot from questing there. Sooner rather than later, some bandits are going to come a 'raiding.

It's like a farm, for XPs.
ta daa

That would be awful. Animals probably wander in and out of there all the time. You should just provide a means for the goblins to summon you - assuming they are competent and you can trust them, which are admittedly qute big 'ifs'.

BobVosh
2009-11-27, 06:41 AM
Obviously I would cast an epic spell that lets people summon me whenever they say the proper words. They may then sell a child to me that is a blood relative. If they wish to recant this they must than travel, mostly alone, through my incredibly pointless difficult maze. There they must speak the proper words to regain the child. All of this within 3 days.

The material focus is an incredibly large cod piece. I shall also become the self proclaimed goblin king. Using prestidigitation I should be able to attempt to intimidate with street magician skills, and not very good ones at that. All shall tremble before my mighty codpiece of +9. (yes, it is epic)

Myshlaevsky
2009-11-27, 06:48 AM
Obviously I would cast an epic spell that lets people summon me whenever they say the proper words. They may then sell a child to me that is a blood relative. If they wish to recant this they must than travel, mostly alone, through my incredibly pointless difficult maze. There they must speak the proper words to regain the child. All of this within 3 days.

The material focus is an incredibly large cod piece. I shall also become the self proclaimed goblin king. Using prestidigitation I should be able to attempt to intimidate with street magician skills, and not very good ones at that. All shall tremble before my mighty codpiece of +9. (yes, it is epic)

You know, you remind me of the babe.

BobVosh
2009-11-27, 07:02 AM
You know, you remind me of the babe.

What babe? ;)

Acanous
2009-11-27, 08:18 AM
The Babe With the Power

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-27, 09:40 AM
You are naked.
There is a tree.

Do you have resources?
No; you are naked next to a tree.

Depends on the tree.

Birch? Peel the bark and make all kinds of things. Bowls and spoons, tinder, shelters, canoes. Heck, my ancestors used birch for everything.

Is it an ever green such as a pine or spruce? harvest the pinecones and lower branches for food and shelter. Spruce branches, the sap, and the new growth on the ends of the branches are all usable for shelter or food.

With fallen leaves and a few sticks I can show you how to make a shelter so warm you'd be comfy even in a raging storm.

Scrape the underbark on a willow and you have a weak but usable pain medicine. It isn't great raw but it's something.

Alder tree bark is good for tummy pains of all sorts.

A fallen tree is a wealth of tools. A bow and drill fire starter and an atl atl are simple tools and easy to make with nothing more than a sharp rock. Wooden hunting spears and clubs: get them to pull up a good size sapling, burn the roots clean. Burn it through about three feet from the roots. snap off the branches. You now have a spear and club with fire hardened points.

A fish trap can be made in any shallow river/stream with just sticks. Nothing more.

About the only thing that they wouldn't be able to use would be mountain ash berries. I'm sure they are poison. A good rule to follow is if the birds eat it, dig in.

BRC
2009-11-27, 09:57 AM
I would recommend getting what allies you can.


Also, that major trade hub nearbye, see if you can strike up some sort of deal with them. Roads through forests need protection and maintenance. See if the major merchants in the city would be willing to pay the goblins to keep the roads clear of bandits and in good enough shape for travel.
If they are unwilling to think of the Goblins as anything but bandits, see if you can set up some sort of Tribute scheme.You know
"If the Goblins start raiding your caravans, you will lose lots of money. You could hire mercenaries to wipe out the Goblins, but that would also cost lots of money.

Or, you could pay the goblins a little bit every so often to not raid the caravans. You lose less money and nobody has to die. It's better all around".

Also, start finding some local resources you can exploit. You're in a forest, so Lumber is a good option, however, if there is something rarer that the goblins can get better than anybody else, that would be preferable.

There is a Wizards academy, maybe have the Goblins start collecting spell components for the Wizards. Or creating the magical ink needed to scribe scrolls and write things in Spellbooks.
Once the goblins have something to trade, they can become friends with the merchants in the trade hub, which means their economy will be boosted, they won't have to worry about the merchants sending mercenaries to kill them, and if they are attacked then the merchants may even defend them.
The important thing is to establish them as Not Monsters as quickly as possible.
Goblins make good miners, with their large numbers, small size, and Dark vision. See if you can start up a mining operation.

Those ruins, since this is DnD, I'd bet that there are valuable magic items in those Ruins, see if the Wizards would be willing to pay to study them.

Slayn82
2009-12-07, 08:55 AM
Does anyone know the generation time of a goblin?

2nd edition: Nine Years for full maturity. And commonly 3-4 babies per gestation. And 2 reprodutive cicles per year. Heh, second edition Haste spell aged the subject one year. Made me a fortune in cattle.

Kol Korran
2009-12-07, 09:02 AM
strange thing, a group of a friends of mine (4E, 1st levels) just battled a tribe of warring goblins and killed their king. the shaman pleaded for thier lives, and declared the fighter who dealt the killing blow their new cheiftain... so very unexpectedly, they have a small (and quite ineffective- they didn't kill one 1st level character) warring goblin band on their hands.
i imagine they won't think as far ahead as some of the suggestions on the thread though.

Kol.

dsmiles
2009-12-07, 11:04 AM
The Babe With the Power

What power?