[3.5/PF] At what level should a PC grow to large or huge size?

[harpy]

So I'm hard at work on a system to customize races a bit more and one "very large" thing that has hung on the horizon was integrating large and huge size PCs.

The basic idea is that the race the PC belongs to grows up into a new size bracket. Part of it now has to do with figuring out at what level it would be ok to have these growth spurts without derailing the game.

Right now I've dialed them to:

Large (tall) 9th level
Huge (long) 13th level
Huge (tall) 17th level

The big issue with these sizes mostly comes down to weapon damage and reach.

For weapon damage the average number of points raised from medium to large is 2.5 points worth of damage, although that can go higher if the player is min-maxing their weapon usage.

Going from Large to Huge leaps up the ladder even higher, with an average of 7 points above what medium does. If the player is using a monk then that can reach almost 10 points of average damage higher.

Then of course there is reach. Where the medium PC threatens up to 24 squares with reach weapons and spiked armor, things ramp up quickly with large. Large (long) has a potential area of 32 squares while large (tall) can cover 96 squares.

Going to huge gets more intense, with huge (long) covering up to 112 squares and huge (tall) covering 216 squares when using a reach weapon along with spiked armor or a natural weapon.

Those are the big hurdles, so it's just an issue of trying to figure out at what level it would be appropriate for these things to appear.

[Lycanthromancer]

Enlarge person and expansion basically allow you to be Large whenever it would benefit you, a number of times per day.

So, level 1 it is.

Combined with the Touchstone feat, you can emulate Huge at level 1.

Combined with Jotunbrud, you can emulate Gargantuan at level 1.

Possibly.

[Gpope]

In terms of game balance allowing a permanent size increase isn't that big, no pun intended. You don't want to let Large characters run amok at low levels (especially if they're eligible for things that raise their size even larger), but I would think by level 5 or so it's not a big deal. I think you could get by lowering the growth stages by up to 4 levels apiece without breaking the game. Maybe not quite that many to start with, but certainly by the end. At level 17 the wizard is casting Shapechange, no one cares if you're Huge.

The problem is when you're trying to balance races that grow vs. races that don't grow (unless I've misunderstood your proposal, and you're planning on creating a system where everybody turns into giants as they level up.) Most racial abilities are fairly weak to begin with and are pretty inconsequential by the time you get to mid levels. If you're trying to balance "doesn't sleep quite as much" vs. "gets to be Huge at high levels"... it ain't gonna happen.