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View Full Version : [3.5] Low-Level Warlock Feat Options?



Kosjsjach
2009-11-25, 01:28 AM
A friend of mine will be trying out D&D for the first time.

She'll be playing a homebrew race: she had her heart set on catfolk, but the DM vetoed LA races so I threw something together (+2 dex -2 wis, small size, 30 ft. speed, low-light vision, +2 Listen and Spot, and some cat-themed bonuses to balance and tumble) and got it approved.

She was originally going to play a Sorcerer, but to avoid the headache that comes with learning and picking spells for the first time, I suggested Warlock.

We're starting at 2nd level (I'll be playing an Adamantine Warforged dungeon crasher, mwahahaha), and at this point I'm expected to help her out however I can (not that I mind). I'm here to ask if there are any particularly good feats to run past her that I've overlooked (and believe me, I've looked). Fey Heritage is underwhelming, I don't think she'll like the flavor of Fiendish Heritage, Precise Shot has Point-Blank Shot as a prerequisite (which, while not bad, is a bit flavorless)... and that's pretty much all I've found. I could always just suck it up and suggest feats like Improved Initiative or somethingsuch.

TL;DR: What are some good low-level Warlock feats?

Boci
2009-11-25, 01:38 AM
Fey heritor line?

Zaq
2009-11-25, 01:41 AM
Blend into Shadows (from Drow of the Underdark) is a great feat for a Warlock who's willing to burn an invocation known on Darkness, but it might be a little bit complex for a first-timer. (It's not THAT hard, but compared to a lot of others... well, the nuances of hiding and hiding in plain sight aren't always intuitive.)

Shape Soulmeld is a decent choice because it can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. It can be as simple as "here are some cool new abilities you can choose, and if you like this a lot, we can expand what it does later" without getting too deep into Incarnum, or you can make it a sub-theme of the character, since Warlocks can do passably (not great, but passably) devoting feats to esoteric causes like Incarnum dabbling.

Glaivelocks love Combat Reflexes, but your friend probably isn't playing a Glaivelock.

I don't have the book open, so I forget the prereqs on Mortalbane (BoVD), but it's a solid damage booster at early levels.

Maybe something from Tome of Battle? Level 1 might not be the best time to take Martial Study, but it's not out of the question.

If you're worried about saves, Force of Personality can help a CHA-focused Warlock. I'm not too fond of it myself, but it can still help.

Maybe a Devotion feat? Knowledge Devotion is always fun, as is Travel Devotion on a Glaivelock.

Of course, you'll have to look far and wide to find a character who doesn't benefit from Improved Initiative.

I'm partial to feats that dabble in other class features. Bind Vestige, Shape Soulmeld, Hidden Talent, Truespeak Training/Least Utterance of the Evolving Mind (note: don't actually take this option. I'm just listing it for completeness.), Martial Study, Draconic Aura, things like that.

Do any of these seem helpful? Mostly I'm just randomly brainstorming, but hey, something might be useful.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-25, 01:41 AM
Improved Initiative and Mortalbane.

Optimystik
2009-11-25, 01:42 AM
Although you already threw something together, I'd suggest Tibbit (Dragon Compendium) for the race. +2 Dex, -2 Str, Small, can turn into a house cat at will, retains feline traits in humanoid form, no LA.

Anyhoo, Flyby Attack is a must, Improved Initiative is always good... it depends a lot on the kind of warlock she wants. Blaster? Invoker? Glaivelock?

There's a nice list here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2915.0).

BobVosh
2009-11-25, 01:44 AM
Although you already threw something together, I'd suggest Tibbit (Dragon Compendium) for the race. +2 Dex, -2 Str, Small, can turn into a house cat at will, retains feline traits in humanoid form, no LA.

Anyhoo, Flyby Attack is a must, Improved Initiative is always good... it depends a lot on the kind of warlock she wants. Blaster? Invoker? Glaivelock?

There's a nice list here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2915.0).

Does that race keep pounce in humanoid form?

Optimystik
2009-11-25, 01:51 AM
Does that race keep pounce in humanoid form?

I don't think so, but a warlock probably won't be pouncing much anyway.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-25, 01:53 AM
I don't think so, but a warlock probably won't be pouncing much anyway.

Man, an Hellfire Glaive shadowpouncing build would be nice.

Optimystik
2009-11-25, 01:56 AM
Man, an Hellfire Glaive shadowpouncing build would be nice.

Hellfire Heathcliff?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-25, 02:21 AM
Man, an Hellfire Glaive shadowpouncing build would be nice.Can't pounce or Shadowpounce with an Eldrich Glaive, IIRC. It's a full-round action that allows a full-attack, not just a full-attack.

Kosjsjach
2009-11-25, 02:29 AM
Man, I love this forum. :smallbiggrin:


Do any of these seem helpful? Mostly I'm just randomly brainstorming, but hey, something might be useful.
Helpful, yes. This is exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for.
Blend Into Shadows is several shades of awesome, but Hide isn't a class skill for Warlocks so its utility wouldn't hold out in the long-term.
I like the Shape Soulmeld idea, but our DM isn't the most... adventuresome when it comes to allowing supplements, and I've already pushed my luck as it is :smallredface:. The same goes for the Tome of Battle feats. (Besides, I'm not too familiar with the incarnum system yet myself, so I'm not comfortable trying to push for it.)
Combat Reflexes is great for a glaivelock... what methods are there for making your opponent provoke AoOs? I'll it by her.
Devotion feats. Can't believe I forgot about 'em. Their limited use without Turn Undead stings a bit, but Knowledge Devotion would work fantastically coupled with the Otherworldly Whispers invocation.
Zaq... thank you. :smallsmile:

Mortalbane. There's one I hadn't heard about. If she wants to deal crazy damage at low levels, I'll suggest it.


Although you already threw something together, I'd suggest Tibbit (Dragon Compendium) for the race. +2 Dex, -2 Str, Small, can turn into a house cat at will, retains feline traits in humanoid form, no LA.

Anyhoo, Flyby Attack is a must, Improved Initiative is always good... it depends a lot on the kind of warlock she wants. Blaster? Invoker? Glaivelock?

There's a nice list here.

That list is precisely what I'd been searching for before posting this. I even came across that thread, but in a different format, so it didn't contain the relevant post and I was unable to find it. Thank you.

I had abstractly considered suggesting Tibbit, but I didn't have the relevant info at the time. Now that I do (*cough*), I'll run it by the player and the DM.

Again, gotta say, I love this forum. Thanks, everyone.

Fizban
2009-11-25, 03:09 AM
If you're feat restricted, no Warlock can go wrong with meta-SLA feats and extra invocations. I don't think there are any meta-SLAs you can take at first, but you could probably take a Sudden metamagic feat. The suddens can only be used once per day, but you can take them earlier, apply to your best stuff without the hoops in the meta-SLA feats, and apply them to any SLA you know rather than just the one you picked. Sudden Still may be really dull, but stilling Walk Unseen could very well be the difference between shuffling away quietly and being burned at the stake.

Darrin
2009-11-25, 06:40 AM
Can't pounce or Shadowpounce with an Eldrich Glaive, IIRC. It's a full-round action that allows a full-attack, not just a full-attack.

Travel devotion works very nicely.

Also, there may be an interesting loophole for a mounted Warlock. Normally, if your mount charges or moves more than 5', you can only make a single attack. However, you can use SLAs while mounted. So you could have your mount charge/move/etc., and then use Eldritch Glaive as a full-round action.

Duke of URL
2009-11-25, 07:16 AM
Several, less "adventurous" choices that can work for Warlocks:


Ability Focus (eldritch blast) [+2 DC to any EB essence? Yes, please!]
Improved Initiative ['nuff said]
Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot [a great combo for low levels, though becomes relatively useless at higher levels due to the comparative ease of succeeding on a touch attack]
Skill Focus (UMD) [skill focus is normally a bad, bad choice, but in a low-level game, between this, a high CHA, and Deceive Item, a Warlock can take 10 on UMD checks for pretty much anything other than high-level scrolls -- in a higher level game, take this only if retraining is allowed]

Optimystik
2009-11-25, 07:49 AM
That list is precisely what I'd been searching for before posting this. I even came across that thread, but in a different format, so it didn't contain the relevant post and I was unable to find it. Thank you.

You're welcome. :smallsmile:


I had abstractly considered suggesting Tibbit, but I didn't have the relevant info at the time. Now that I do (*cough*), I'll run it by the player and the DM.

Again, gotta say, I love this forum. Thanks, everyone.

Here's the full story on Tibbits, warlock-useful bits bolded:



Monstrous Humanoid (shapeshifter.)
+2 Dex, -2 Str
Small Creature
20 ft Move Speed.
Darkvision 60
+2 Spot
+2 Jump & Escape Artist
Feline Transformation: The tibbit takes on the form of a housecat with colors based on the hair color of the tibbit in humanoid form. - At will, as a standard action, with a 1 hour wait period after reverting to humanoid form to change back to a cat.

In Cat form:
- Size becomes Tiny
- Speed increases to 30 ft.
- -8 Str
- +2 Dex (She's now at +4)
- 1d2 claws
- 1d3 bite
- full attack 2 claws and bite (-5 on the bite)
- No additional attacks from BAB
- Nonmagical items transform with it and provide no bonus, but magical items change shape to fit and make sense on a cat, continuing to provide benefits. (Example - a magic ring or amulet becomes a collar. Magic boots become booties etc.)
- Tibbits in cat form cannot manipulate fine objects with their paws, speak, or cast spells with verbal or somatic components. (She can still use all warlock abilities in cat form, because they are SLAs.)
- Tibbits in cat form have Scent. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm)
- Speak common and Feline (they can talk to normal cats.)
- A slain tibbit cat reverts to humanoid form, over the course of 1 round.
- Any magic that can detect a polymorphed creature can detect the truth behind a tibbit's cat guise. Magic that detects magic but does not detect polymorphed creatures does not help in distinguishing a tibbit. Otherwise, anyone spotting a tibbit in cat form has difficulty distinguishing one from a regular cat.
- Changing back to humanoid form requires a full round action.
Favored Class: Rogue
LA 0

Duke of URL
2009-11-25, 08:05 AM
Tibbits in cat form cannot manipulate fine objects with their paws, speak, or cast spells with verbal or somatic components. (She can still use all warlock abilities in cat form, because they are SLAs.)

I disagree. The description of invocations clearly states that they are treated as SLAs, except that they require somatic components and provoke AoOs.

Optimystik
2009-11-25, 08:11 AM
I disagree. The description of invocations clearly states that they are treated as SLAs, except that they require somatic components and provoke AoOs.

All SLAs provoke AoOs. It's Supernaturals that don't.

CA says the Somatic components for all Invocations are "simple." I'd say it's a DM call.

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-25, 08:21 AM
Although you already threw something together, I'd suggest Tibbit (Dragon Compendium) for the race. +2 Dex, -2 Str, Small, can turn into a house cat at will, retains feline traits in humanoid form, no LA.

Anyhoo, Flyby Attack is a must, Improved Initiative is always good... it depends a lot on the kind of warlock she wants. Blaster? Invoker? Glaivelock?

There's a nice list here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2915.0).

I second this. Tibbit with Imp. Initiative and flyby attack.

ravenkith
2009-11-25, 08:41 AM
Might pick up wild/hidden talent and psionic shot feats for extra damage...


WTH is tibbit from?

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-25, 08:42 AM
Dragon Compendium.

Zovc
2009-11-25, 10:13 AM
WTH is tibbit from?


Dragon Compendium.

A bored wizard once created a vizzerdrix tibbit out of a bunny cat and a piranha human. He never probably made that mistake again.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-11-25, 10:25 AM
Might pick up wild/hidden talent and psionic shot feats for extra damage...

I highly agree for 3 feats you can add an aditional 2d6 dmg every round though you won't be moving...

if you go the psi root. I would sugest taking a couple of psion levels (or wilder)
and modifing the eldritch mage(can't remember name, its from c. mage though) using the psionic-magic transparancy rules.. makes for a fun class.

Smeggedoff
2009-11-25, 11:25 AM
Do invocations that give flight fulfil the prerequisites for Flyby attack then? I ran into this problem with a Dragonfire Adept as Flyby attack has "Flight Speed" as a prerequisite.

jiriku
2009-11-25, 11:42 AM
Do invocations that give flight fulfil the prerequisites for Flyby attack then? I ran into this problem with a Dragonfire Adept as Flyby attack has "Flight Speed" as a prerequisite.

Yes. But the feat becomes useless when the invocation is inactive.

For the OP, new players usually struggle least with feats that grant passive bonuses to common rolls and feats that let them do their main schtick more. So mechanical benefits like Improved Initiative, Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes/Great Fortitude, Point-Blank Shot/Precise Shot, Ability Focus, and even Weapon Focus are appropriate, as are feats such as Empower Spell-Like Ability, Quicken Spell-Like Ability, Fly-by Attack, and Extra Invocation.

Radiun
2009-11-25, 11:42 AM
Do invocations that give flight fulfil the prerequisites for Flyby attack then? I ran into this problem with a Dragonfire Adept as Flyby attack has "Flight Speed" as a prerequisite.

When the invocation is active, the feat is active
When the invocation is inactive, the feat is dead weight.

I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere that you can take a feat when you meet the requirements (I take this feat with my invocation active, ha-ha!), but when you lose the requirements, you keep the feat, but it is inactive.
Just can't cite a source:smallredface:

Smeggedoff
2009-11-25, 12:58 PM
Ah, I see. I know on the SRD it says that losing enough a of a stat through loss or drain to invalidate a prerequsite doesn't lose you the feat, just makes it unusable until you recover the stat.
I just didn't want to assume it worked in the other direction. Thanks guys.

Alex112524
2009-11-25, 01:17 PM
When the invocation is active, the feat is active
When the invocation is inactive, the feat is dead weight you activate it again.

Fixed that for you.