Couple of ToB questions

[BooNL]

So, in an effort of trying out new stuff I've already tackled MoI to the point of understanding. Next up, ToB.

Actually, I've toyed with the system before and I like it, I just don't have a lot of experience with it. So, I've got a couple of questions.

1. Every discipline lists associated weapons. There's a couple of class features and feats that mention these weapons, but I can't see any mention of them in the "Blade Magic" (what a stupid name...) section.
Do you have to wield an associated weapon to be able to use the strikes and other abilities of a discipline?

2. You have a couple of maneuvres known and a couple of maneuvres readied, check. Can you ready a maneuvre only once or are you allowed to pick the same maneuvre a couple of times?

3. Adaptive Style. This feat allows you to switch around your maneuvres as a full-action. From what I understand, this also means they are usable again in combat, right? Are you able to pick the exact same set of maneuvres, or do you have to pick different ones each time?

4. The unarmed swordsage. They gain the unarmed progression of monks, is this just the damage increase, or also the damage type? I take it Flurry isn't include in the package, right?
Also, they lose light armour profiency, but if I understand correctly, they still keep their own listing of Wisdom to AC. So if I were to get light armour proficiency from a different source, I would still get my Wis to AC, right?

Thanks guys :smallsmile:

[NEO|Phyte]

So, in an effort of trying out new stuff I've already tackled MoI to the point of understanding. Next up, ToB.

Actually, I've toyed with the system before and I like it, I just don't have a lot of experience with it. So, I've got a couple of questions.

1. Every discipline lists associated weapons. There's a couple of class features and feats that mention these weapons, but I can't see any mention of them in the "Blade Magic" (what a stupid name...) section.
Do you have to wield an associated weapon to be able to use the strikes and other abilities of a discipline?

2. You have a couple of maneuvres known and a couple of maneuvres readied, check. Can you ready a maneuvre only once or are you allowed to pick the same maneuvre a couple of times?

3. Adaptive Style. This feat allows you to switch around your maneuvres as a full-action. From what I understand, this also means they are usable again in combat, right? Are you able to pick the exact same set of maneuvres, or do you have to pick different ones each time?

4. The unarmed swordsage. They gain the unarmed progression of monks, is this just the damage increase, or also the damage type? I take it Flurry isn't include in the package, right?
Also, they lose light armour profiency, but if I understand correctly, they still keep their own listing of Wisdom to AC. So if I were to get light armour proficiency from a different source, I would still get my Wis to AC, right?

Thanks guys :smallsmile:
1) You can use any weapon for a maneuver, unless you find one that says otherwise.

2) Maneuvers aren't spells, you can't double up on them. This is spelled out somewhere in the book, not sure where off the top of my head.

3) The generally-accepted view is that Adaptive Style does indeed reready any expended maneuvers, which is why Swordsages always take it.

4) You don't even need proficiency, just get a mithral chain shirt. Getting ACP to basically everything is moot when the ACP is 0. Though technically they should probably have their AC changed to no armor.

[Shpadoinkle]

1. Every discipline lists associated weapons. There's a couple of class features and feats that mention these weapons, but I can't see any mention of them in the "Blade Magic" (what a stupid name...) section.
Do you have to wield an associated weapon to be able to use the strikes and other abilities of a discipline?

No, but there are a couple feats that grant you bonuses when you use a maneuver with an associated weapon of the discipline it's from.


2. You have a couple of maneuvres known and a couple of maneuvres readied, check. Can you ready a maneuvre only once or are you allowed to pick the same maneuvre a couple of times?

No. You can only have one "instance" of a maneuver ready at a given time, ever.


3. Adaptive Style. This feat allows you to switch around your maneuvres as a full-action. From what I understand, this also means they are usable again in combat, right? Are you able to pick the exact same set of maneuvres, or do you have to pick different ones each time?

I'm not sure of the official stance, but I'd say you can just re-ready allt he maneuvers you've expended so far without changing any of them.


4. The unarmed swordsage. They gain the unarmed progression of monks, is this just the damage increase, or also the damage type? I take it Flurry isn't include in the package, right?
Also, they lose light armour profiency, but if I understand correctly, they still keep their own listing of Wisdom to AC. So if I were to get light armour proficiency from a different source, I would still get my Wis to AC, right?

It's not an official variant, so there are no concrete rules for it. It'd be up to the DM running the game.

[9mm]

1. Every discipline lists associated weapons. There's a couple of class features and feats that mention these weapons, but I can't see any mention of them in the "Blade Magic" (what a stupid name...) section.
Do you have to wield an associated weapon to be able to use the strikes and other abilities of a discipline? no it doesn't matter what weapon you use.


2. You have a couple of maneuvres known and a couple of maneuvres readied, check. Can you ready a maneuvre only once or are you allowed to pick the same maneuvre a couple of times?
by Raw. yes. There isn't a line in the entire book that says you cannot ready multiple instances of a maneuver. Those who say you can't are quoting a custserve ruling, and custserve is as likely to be followed as their rulings are to make sense.


3. Adaptive Style. This feat allows you to switch around your maneuvres as a full-action. From what I understand, this also means they are usable again in combat, right? Are you able to pick the exact same set of maneuvres, or do you have to pick different ones each time? by raw you reset all maneuvers to readied and to what ever maneuver you want to them to be; by RaI you just change maneuverers; this is one of the "ToB three" that will involve DM Fiat.


4. The unarmed swordsage. They gain the unarmed progression of monks, is this just the damage increase, or also the damage type? I take it Flurry isn't include in the package, right?
Also, they lose light armour profiency, but if I understand correctly, they still keep their own listing of Wisdom to AC. So if I were to get light armour proficiency from a different source, I would still get my Wis to AC, right?


Unarmed Swordsage is an unofficial variant, there for this is the DM's call.

[Douglas]

by Raw. yes. There isn't a line in the entire book that says you cannot ready multiple instances of a maneuver. Those who say you can't are quoting a custserve ruling, and custserve is as likely to be followed as their rulings are to make sense.
There is no explicit statement that you cannot ready the same maneuver multiple times, but there certainly are statements and language that imply that. The Warblade and Crusader class descriptions specifically mention that at level 1 every maneuver the character knows is readied because the numbers of readied and known maneuvers are the same. Every time maneuvers readied are mentioned, there and elsewhere, it's described as choosing which ones, not how many times for each. The wording is always about how many maneuvers you can ready, not how many slots you have for readied maneuvers. The latter is what is specifically laid out for spellcasting and is why preparing the same spell multiple times is legal. The former allows only for a maneuver to be readied or not readied.


by raw you reset all maneuvers to readied and to what ever maneuver you want to them to be; by RaI you just change maneuverers; this is one of the "ToB three" that will involve DM Fiat.
RAI is debatable and not definitely known. I think the mention of Crusaders immediately getting new granted maneuvers is pretty strong evidence that refreshing readied maneuvers is RAI, but it's not absolutely conclusive. Regardless, RAW and RAB (Rules As Balanced - seriously, the "normal" Swordsage recovery mechanism is so weak it's broken, in the sense of not working) are that Adaptive Style resets all your maneuvers readied to not expended.


Unarmed Swordsage is an unofficial variant, there for this is the DM's call.
It's right there in Tome of Battle near the end of the Swordsage class description. I'm not sure how you can get any more official than that.

If I remember the wording correctly, Unarmed Swordsage loses light armor proficiency (just get a Mithral Chain Shirt, you still get Wisdom to AC and the only penalty for non-proficiency is based on the armor check penalty, which is 0) and gain this (replace Monk with Swordsage):

Unarmed Strike

At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.

[BooNL]

Thanks for your time guys. Very good feedback!