Challenged by DM (3,5

[DJDizzy]

Heyo, I was challenged by my DM to make a cleric WITHOUT healing spells or any non-core things at all to prove to the rest of the party that clerics certainly can kick the ass of monks, pallys, fighters, rangers, rogues etc. Since we are running a no-heal party, the heal skill is crucial with my DMs homebrew of it.

My stats are as follow:

Str: 18
Dex: 8
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 10
Domains: War, Good.

Books allowed: PHB and DMG.

Can the might playgrounders suggest a build I could use?

[The Glyphstone]

What level? Core-only removes the ability to be better than the fighter all day for 1 set of spells, but you can still be better than the fighter in several combats of your choosing depending on level.

[DJDizzy]

Starting level: 1

[Ponce]

Yeah, level is very important. What is your race? Human?

Core-only means straight cleric. I suggest the Travel and Trickery domains if you are allowed to change them.

Travel - Cleric mobility problems are obliterated. The spells combined with the special power means nothing can stop you from going where you want. That is, right next to your enemy so you can bludgeon him to death.
Trickery - A whole host of incredibly useful spells. However, a lot of them only apply in the late-game, so if you are a very low level, maybe something like War would be a lot better.

Starting feat should be Power Attack. After that, I suggest Improved Turning, Improved Initiative, and Extend Spell. Cleric feat choice is a bit limited in core, unfortunately.

After that, load up on buffs.

Divine Favour, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith, etc...

Buy a +1 weapon of your choosing, probably a Greatsword via the War domain. Add a bunch of special abilities to it, probably the energy abilities, then buff it with Greater Magic Weapon to increase the enchantment bonus as well and get a weapon better than anyone else in the party.

Do the same with your full plate and an animated shield.

Done!

Edit: Well, I guess that's all in the long-term, then! There isn't much to be said when it comes to planning the first level of a core-only build.

[DJDizzy]

Thanks, I was looking for a long term build, although you are really locked in what feats you take as a cleric in core only. I will have to chat with my DM about taking Holy Warrior, although he said Divine Metamagic and Persist spell is out of the window because it is "Too broken" (Yeah right, last time he gave someone a familiar with full wiz spell progression)

[mabriss lethe]

Heyo, I was challenged by my DM to make a cleric WITHOUT healing spells or any non-core things at all to prove to the rest of the party that clerics certainly can kick the ass of monks, pallys, fighters, rangers, rogues etc. Since we are running a no-heal party, the heal skill is crucial with my DMs homebrew of it.

My stats are as follow:

Str: 18
Dex: 8
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 10
Domains: War, Good.


Books allowed: PHB and DMG.

Can the might playgrounders suggest a build I could use?

what level?

aside from that. With the way you have him statted out...

Feats: Power attack is sort of a no-brainer. Improved initiative also not a bad core-only feat for you. Combat casting or skill focus (concentration) are also not terrible options. Blind fight isn't a bad choice. With Charisma that low, I wouldn't worry too much about focusing on turning undead.

Have you considered a mounted cleric build? Sure, you won't be able to go whole hog in the first few levels like a fighter can. but you could pick up the Big Three feats +power attack as a human by 6th level. (mounted combat/rideby attack/ spirited charge) Your BAB is going to keep you behind on iterative attacks, so dumping all your damage into a single strike might go pretty well and staying mounted will make up for the cruddy 20ft move speed for being in medium or heavy armor. (of course this is made even better if there's a god who fits the bill and has a lance as a favored weapon. If not, the DM might let you fudge that part. depends on him, the setting, etc. Of course, a valiant Good/War god favoring a lance doesn't sound particularly unreasonable.)

Skills: Concentration, and Heal are good ones. Ride, definitely, if you're going for a mounted build. Knowledge Religion has been one of the more useful skills in every game I've ever played.

[Eldariel]

Can you readjust your stats for 13 Int; I'd almost take the hit to Con for it? I personally find Improve Trip invaluable in Core, especially since you're capable of casting Righteous Might on your own accord. Unfortunately you'll never have Combat Reflexes (without massive magical boosts to Con, anyways), but your spells should make up for that.

Also, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain is a v. good investment once you qualify; the normal weapon list of a Cleric isn't that good for melee domination, though Longspear is a fine weapon on its own right.


Other than that, Extend Spell (for Greater Magic Weapon all day), later on Quicken Spell (Quickened Divine Favors are very key), mayhap Craft Wondrous Items or Craft Magic Arms & Armor, or even Craft Rod (note, you need only one of each Crafter per party so if someone else has any of those Crafts, you need not overlap). Much of your buffs can be shared though; stuff like Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Heroes' Feast, etc. is going to benefit everyone, but you should ask 'em to at least provide you with an equivalent level Pearl of Power for the help.

Further, get Beads of Karma to cast them at vastly higher CL than normally available (along with any other hour/level buffs you're casting). And yeah, I agree with the Domains; Travel, Trickery and Luck are some of the better ones for a melee type, and Trickery has by far the best high-level spells. Travel is just useful, and Luck has a nice granted power, and Moment of Prescience.

The biggest issue by far is that none offer a good level 1 Domain-spell; Strength is really the only one with a good one in Enlarge Person. Trickery/Travel would have great spells for you 2-9 though (something like X/Invisibility/Fly/Dimension Door (or Confusion)/Teleport/X/Greater Teleport/Polymorph Any Object/Time Stop; X would be a repeat of the earlier spells, probably metamagicked like Quickened Invisibility or something).


So yeah, I'd suggest:
1. Combat Expertise
Human. Improved Trip
3. EWP: Spiked Chain
6. Power Attack
9. Extend Spell
12. Quicken Spell
15. Craft or Combat Reflexes
18. Craft or Combat Reflexes

With the option of going Mounted Combat too; Spirited Charge deals obscene damage. If you can't get Improved Trip, you'll be much weaker as a build, but at least it'll be easier to make:

1. Power Attack
Human. Extend Spell
3. Craft Wondrous Items
6. EWP: Spiked Chain (though not nearly as useful without Improved Trip)
9. Quicken Spell
12. Whatever
15. Whatever
18. Whatever

Or just take Spirited Charge-line early and profit. Don't waste a feat with Improved Turning; your Turn Undead should only really be used when you need to channel holy energy (the alternative use listed in PHB) with that Charisma; even Improved Turning is gonna be worse than just Hulk Smash. Btw, if going Spirited Charge, it's worth considering MWP: Lance over EWP: Spiked Chain.

By the way, a PrC that is consideration-worthy, there's Thaumaturgist in Core. It's not a bad PrC by any stretch of imagination. It has a horrible entry prerequisite feat, but Planar Cohort could give you a constant mount and the Contingent Conjuration is very nice.


And very late (once you have 9th level spells), it's worth considering a level in Hierophant for Divine Reach or some such.