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Korivan
2009-11-25, 10:51 PM
I was looking at some threads about the differences about the different systems and it got me thinking. What are some of the things people homebrew?

For starters, I was thinking about the haste spell, and that in 2nd edition it gave you a +2 to initiative, and in 3rd it gave you a partial action. What about using 3.5's version, giving the +2 to initative (as a circimstance bonus), and giving the partial action, but limiting it to only a single attack, move action, or free action (with rules that you can only Quicken spell only once per round.)? Over powered?

I had more ideas, but I cant think of any right now. Anyways, just wondering how others have helped improved the game for them via homebrew.

erikun
2009-11-25, 11:17 PM
You can only quicken spell once per round anyways.

And granting one extra standard action with Haste is what made it broken in 3.5e to begin with. Casting two spells per round? Yes, please!

Common house rule: With two weapon fighting, you can swing both weapons with any single attack (move > attack, charging, AoO).

ex cathedra
2009-11-25, 11:22 PM
You can only quicken spell once per round anyways.

And granting one extra standard action with Haste is what made it broken in 3.5e to begin with. Casting two spells per round? Yes, please!


You mean 3.0. But, yes, a third level spell did effectively give you the entire epic Auto Quicken Spell feat line.

Relatedly, swiftblades (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) get 3.0 haste as a pseudo-capstone.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-25, 11:45 PM
And Swiftblade 9 is considered awesome despite losing 3 levels of casting.

My list is going to be:
Ban Wizards, Artificers, Archivists.
Druids are split into 2 classes, with one getting Ranger spellcasting and AC-3, the other losing Wildshape and getting AC-3.
Clerics must be Cloistered.
Celerity and Contingency are banned.
Any method of reducing metamagic is banned.
Every class gets an additional 2 skill points per level.
Everyone gets the Able Learner feat for free.

That's what I've got so far. I may add more, but I'd like to keep it as close to sane as possible.

ex cathedra
2009-11-25, 11:51 PM
I'm going to do this as succinctly as possible:

This. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124216)

BenTheJester
2009-11-26, 12:03 AM
Polymorph: Restrain/Remove

Make Druid take the variant from PH2

HCL
2009-11-26, 12:20 AM
cloistered cleric is generally better than regular cleric so I would not consider that much of a nerf.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-26, 12:24 AM
cloistered cleric is generally better than regular cleric so I would not consider that much of a nerf.Yes and no. My group isn't optimizers(though one may be trying to turn into one) so all I really need to do is make sure the Cleric doesn't step on the Fighter's toes. A slight power-up is fine, since the primary thing we use clerics for is buffing, which powers up the party, not an individual.

BenTheJester
2009-11-26, 12:35 AM
cloistered cleric is generally better than regular cleric so I would not consider that much of a nerf.

I never understood why this variant was always considered balanced enough to be used without being frowned upon.

For all it gains, it loses: 1/4th BAB(Yes! Clerics don't rely on Divine Power to fuel their BAB anyway!) and Martial Weapon Proficiency(War domain, here I come!)

ex cathedra
2009-11-26, 12:38 AM
I would be more inclined to pick up Planning, Undeath, and Knowledge Devotion for my cloistered cleric of wee jas. Weapons are okay. Extend Spell and Extra Turning are better.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-26, 12:49 AM
I never understood why this variant was always considered balanced enough to be used without being frowned upon.

For all it gains, it loses: 1/4th BAB(Yes! Clerics don't rely on Divine Power to fuel their BAB anyway!) and Martial Weapon Proficiency(War domain, here I come!)It gains skill points, a decent domain, a couple skills, and Bardic Knowledge.

Loses BAB, HD, AC, and Weapon Proficiency. Yes, those things can be overcome, but it's not as easy. And the things they gain don't add to their combat. For my level of optimization, it's a nerf to their melee, which is what I care about.

Saintheart
2009-11-26, 01:06 AM
If you're talking house rules, these are some that I use on my current 3.5e game--

- No Attacks of Opportunity, and any feats addressing them (giving or avoiding) no longer exist and are not prerequisites for anything else.
- Charge becomes a standard action instead of full-round action (which means the enemy can do "charge cycles" where they back up 10 feet with the move action and then charge to give themselves +2 to AC.
- Dodge provides a flat +1 AC bonus; no selection against a target required.
- Heighten Spell is free to spellcasters.

Admittedly this is for a group who aren't optimisers by any stretch of the imagination, but it just streamlines things (essential given it's PbP.)

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-11-26, 02:00 AM
The polymorph rule my group uses is as follows: Any [Polymorph] spell turns you into an exact, right-from-the-Monster-Manual copy of a creature except that (A) you keep your own Int score [mostly to allow you to turn into nonsapient/nonsentient creatures but also to prevent you from becoming something with Int 30 to help you with Knowledge] and (B) you don't get any limited-use abilities ["limited use" being defined as anything less than "once per round, every round, all day, every day," so anything from a dragon's every-1d4-rounds breath weapon to innate spellcasting is out.] Also, in general any buffs currently on you expire and damage taken is transferred proportionally between forms, though there are 1 or 2 abilities that let you get around those to a limited extent.

It's worked out very well for us. Druids are no longer buff-up-and-kill-everything-while-casting powerhouses, you can't turn into a solar to get cleric casting [or summon it, since [Summoning] spells have the same limited-use clause], and changing forms is now a heck of a lot faster; no recalculation, just "Here are your stats, subtract -2 from Int-based checks because you have a 14 and it has an 18, you don't get its casting, go."

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-26, 02:36 AM
Oh, forgot one. Alignment no longer exists. Alignment-based effects based on enemies and allies. The only immune things are those which are specifically called out as neutral(animals, constructs, etc).

BooNL
2009-11-26, 03:25 AM
Check out the recruitment thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132798) for my latest game. The houserules listed are some of my standard ones.

Doc Roc
2009-11-26, 03:42 AM
I'm going to do this as succinctly as possible:

This. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124216)

Also
This. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124216) We've... sort of done a lot of testing.

Triaxx
2009-11-26, 05:45 AM
Skill Focus on a cross-class skill makes the skill a class skill.

Polymorphs are subject to DM approval.

Curmudgeon
2009-11-26, 07:13 AM
For all it gains, it loses: 1/4th BAB(Yes! Clerics don't rely on Divine Power to fuel their BAB anyway!) and Martial Weapon Proficiency(War domain, here I come!)
See, you want to get into combat.

I would be more inclined to pick up Planning, Undeath, and Knowledge Devotion for my cloistered cleric of wee jas.
And you want to spam Divine Metamagic. (You also want to grab more power than is permitted, since Wee Jas doesn't have either Planning or Undeath in her portfolio. More house rules?)

As for me, I choose Celerity (higher base speed) and Pride (reroll 1s on saving throws). I want to survive.

For house rules: I've got a way to handle the whole Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange line of spells.
You've got to have personally seen one of the things you want to change into.
You need to succeed on the required Knowledge check to know what it is you're seeing:

6 different Knowledge skills to cover all the different creature types
trained only
DC = 10 + HD of creature
P.S.: The deities with Planning include: Gond, Helm, Ilneval, Red Knight, Siamorphe, Ubtao (all FR) and Bralm. For Undeath it's Kiaransalee, Velsharoon (FR) and Afflux. There's no overlap here. If you want both domains you have to give up worshiping a particular deity, which means giving up spells like Visage of the Deity. You can't have everything.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-11-26, 07:25 AM
Clerics get more Skill Points, Monks get full BAB, Paladins are based completely on Wisdom, favored class instead grants either +1 HP or +1 Skill Point per level, Human favored class is any NPC class, and Spellcasters can Eschew Materials without the feat.

ex cathedra
2009-11-26, 08:42 AM
And you want to spam Divine Metamagic. (You also want to grab more power than is permitted, since Wee Jas doesn't have either Planning or Undeath in her portfolio. More house rules?)

More-or-less, yes, those are house rules. I'd like to think that they're reasonable ones at that. Few of my DMs are stringent on domains as long as they fit the fluff. I'd say that planning and undeath fit moderately well with Wee Jas at the very least. I'm also fond of the Magic, Madness, Inquisition, Celerity, and Travel domains, for various reasons.

Out of curiosity, from what source did you produce that list of deities and linked domains? I always have trouble finding domains suiting a deity due to the amount of material detailing domains and deities. If there's a compilation of that knowledge I'd be very grateful for it.

Emmerask
2009-11-26, 09:01 AM
1) No Polymorph spells allowed
2) Conjuration Cration Spells(those with ranged touch attack like orb of x) are Ranged Attacks rather then Ranged Touch Attacks and behave like missiles in any way.
3)Crit/Fumble System stolen from Rolemaster :smallbiggrin:
4) Roleplaying increases or decreases a skillcheck (where it makes sense diplomacy etc) or substitutes a skillcheck if it was really awesome/horrible

5) Awesome > Gamerules

Cyanic
2009-11-26, 09:47 AM
Here are my standards:


Dex modifier on attack rolls, not Str mod.
Monks get 1/2 level divine casting progression.
Monks get full BAB, flurry of blows is gone though.
Paladins get 1/2 level divine casting progression.
Blackguards get 1/2 level arcane casting.
All skills are class skills for everybody.
There is no spell failure chance if you are proficient with your armor.
AoO's don't exist, readied action to attack is the best you get.
Crit range cannot exceed 17-20 by any means.
Natural 1 on attacks and saves is not an automatic failure.
There is no death from massive damage.


Oh yeah, and:

Player cheese will be countered by DM cheese of equal or greater lameness, so be careful.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-11-26, 09:50 AM
Forgot an important one of mine: Dex mod to damage on ranged attacks.

Ecalsneerg
2009-11-26, 09:54 AM
Here are my standards:


Dex modifier
Won't that make melee types pretty MAD, especially Paladins?

Cyanic
2009-11-26, 10:34 AM
Won't that make melee types pretty MAD, especially Paladins?

Yes, but it seems to make more sense. Why would my strength somehow determine my accuracy ? It also is a bit offset with the new casting prowess the palis get.

Ecalsneerg
2009-11-26, 10:36 AM
It makes more sense than Dex being an uberstat that determines AC, to hit for all attack rolls, initiative and a fair whack of skills. Fluff-wise... Strength affects momentum, and a faster strike is harder to dodge.

loopy
2009-11-26, 10:41 AM
No +1 BAB requirement for Weapon Finesse. Thats all I can think of atm.

(I'm a rogue player. It irks me.)

Mike_G
2009-11-26, 10:49 AM
It makes more sense than Dex being an uberstat that determines AC, to hit for all attack rolls, initiative and a fair whack of skills. Fluff-wise... Strength affects momentum, and a faster strike is harder to dodge.

In actually combat, dex kinda is an uber stat. Good luck landing hits on or parrying the Jackie Chan clone, even if you are Andre the Giant.

To actually make sense, attack bonuses should be a combination of Str and Dex, but that's not how D&D works. You need co-ordination to put your attack where you want it, and power just isn't accuracy, but a strong blow can push through a weak parry, and since armor makes you harder to hit (AC vs DR) the Str bonus to hit can be rationalized as helping do damge through armor.

I think allowing a player to choose Dex or str with light weapons at least makes sense.

Curmudgeon
2009-11-26, 11:00 AM
Out of curiosity, from what source did you produce that list of deities and linked domains?
Many sources, and dozens of hours of work. There's an in-progress version here (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/domains.html).

ex cathedra
2009-11-26, 11:27 AM
Many sources, and dozens of hours of work. There's an in-progress version here (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/domains.html).

That's terrific. Thank you very much for sharing.

Stycotl
2009-11-26, 11:30 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121368

scroll midway down the first post to the "houserules" spoiler; those are the rules that i work by. they are still a work in progress––i just added two new rules yesterday (or maybe it was early this morning...).

Akal Saris
2009-11-26, 11:36 AM
The quick and dirty I usual start a game with:

1. No death from massive damage at the 50hp mark
2. No favored class restrictions on multiclassing (exp penalties)
3. No polymorph, PAO, draconic polymorph, etc.
4. Weapon Finesse doesn't require +1 BAB
5. Experience is effectively modular: you'll level 1/session each time

It works well for my group. Switching the games I run to PF will make 1, 2, 4, and partially 3 part of the core gameplay, which I like.

Cyanic
2009-11-26, 11:37 AM
To actually make sense


Attack roll : 1d20 + (skill ranks in relevant weapon) + str mod + dex mod + other

but I ain't gonna roll that, or rebrew the AC system ... or maybe I should... with armor adding HP instead of hit difficultly and dex being the relevant dodge stat, and % glance chances and shield giving cover rather then some dumb AC number ...oh OH OH ... *runs off to be a nerd* :smallbiggrin:

Tshern
2009-11-26, 11:41 AM
And Swiftblade 9 is considered awesome despite losing 3 levels of casting.

My list is going to be:
Ban Wizards, Artificers, Archivists.
Druids are split into 2 classes, with one getting Ranger spellcasting and AC-3, the other losing Wildshape and getting AC-3.
Clerics must be Cloistered.
Celerity and Contingency are banned.
Any method of reducing metamagic is banned.
Every class gets an additional 2 skill points per level.
Everyone gets the Able Learner feat for free.

That's what I've got so far. I may add more, but I'd like to keep it as close to sane as possible.
Funny how you seem to nerf everything else and then just go and give Clerics a boost.

Oslecamo
2009-11-26, 11:53 AM
-Use the GITP diplomacy rules.
-As actualy written on the rules, but many times perversed, teleport and greater teleport don't work into and out of certain places in the world due to their natural properties.
-I define what counts as an ally or not.
-I decide what you know from a knowledge check or not.
-Polymorph is allowed as written, but for good forms you'll basicaly need a miniquest to find and research said form. Same for planar biding, gate, and all their friends :smallbiggrin:
-Due to magic's power, pretty much every monster in the world has evolved to develop anti-magic tactics. Don't expect to ever run into big slow monsters whitout ranged attacks. Expect to run in plenty of monsters with high spell resistance, high saves, immunities, craven, high mobility and/or disabling/dispeling abilities of their own.
-Nightsticks don't stack. Other stuff may also not stack.

Tshern
2009-11-26, 12:07 PM
Two cents from the Bank of Tshern: Gentlemen's agreement. If the players start breaking action economy or pull infinity loops from their pockets, they will face similar strategies. So far this has been very succesful, no-one abuses Celerity, Shapechange and its younger cousins are used with caution and everything flows smoothly.

Doc Roc
2009-11-26, 01:10 PM
I will back this.

Tshern
2009-11-26, 07:46 PM
I will back this.
Ah, my favourite D&D Doctor!