View Full Version : Weapon Modifications & Questions(Crits, Enchantments)

2009-11-26, 01:12 PM
Alright. This is a three part thread, but before I get to that, let me get my introduction out of the way.

I'm Talon and I live in Okinawa (Currently visiting Mississippi). I'm currently playing Pathfinder as a Chaotic Neutral(Mostly good) Barbarian. I enjoy drow and dwarves, but dislike elves(Too haughty), nobles(too haughty), lawful alignment(Too haughty), and yogurt(Too haughty). Moving on!

First off: Questions.

What gets multiplied by a critical hit? I've seen a lot of different takes on this(House ruling, yada yada), but from what I understand as per RAW, the only things that multipled through the crit is the weapon + str modifier.

So this brings me to my second question: Weapon Modifiers.

A good example is the Fever Iron of Faerun -- This grants weapons a +1 fire damage bonus due to the material thats its made out of. So lets say a Great Sword made out of steel deals 2d6 damage and on crit is x2.

Damage multipliers on a steel great sword becomes (2d6+(1.5xstr mod))x2, correct? Does this mean on a Fever Iron Great sword it becomes (2d6+1+(1.5xstr mod))x2

What about damage feats? Does this multiply on crit as well?


Third question. If your weapon multiplier goes up for any reason (x2 -> x3), and this is a permanent change, does this increase the damage of Firey Burst, or its counter parts? What if the damage becomes x5 (As per a scythe)? Does the FB now become 4d10?


Bonus Round!

1) I'm looking for a way to be a 'monk' without being 'lawful.' Is there any way to be a fist-using, no-armor wearing bad ass chaotic neutral character, or am I forced into the lawful route via monk?

2) I'm also looking for more weapon modfications. Heres the books that I have so far that modify weapons (Non-enchantments)

Magic of Faerun
Swashbuckling Adventures
Bastion Press - Arms & Armor.

Any other books that might have decent weapon modifications?

Thanks in advanced,

2009-11-26, 01:14 PM
1.Unarmed Swordsage (Tome of Battle) or getting the DM to wave the stupid alignment rules.
2.Magic Item Compendium?

2009-11-26, 01:52 PM
Does the Magic Item Compendium work for 3.5? And is it more than just magic-items? I'm not looking for enchantments, but what can modify the weapon underneath.

2009-11-26, 02:31 PM
Oh, you mean the base non-magical weapon.

And I don't know why MIC wouldn't work with 3.5, seeing as how it is 3.5.

2009-11-26, 02:54 PM
3.5 edition, correct?

For a critical hit, you multiply the base damage from the weapon, along with any modifiers such as STR bonus, magic bonus from the weapon, bonuses from feats, and so on. Precision damage (such as sneak attack from the rogue) and extra damage dice (such as from the magical Flaming properity) are not multiplied.

In general, everything gets multiplied unless the bonus specifically says otherwise. Read the entry for rogue and Flaming, and you will see that they specifically say the damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.

Found here:


You are a level 3 rogue (+2d6 sneak attack) with 20 Strength (+5) wielding a magical +1 Flaming Fever Iron Greatsword (+1 from magic, +1 from Fever Iron, +1d6 from flaming). You also have the Weapon Specialization feat (+2 damage) somehow. Don't ask me why.

The damage you deal on a hit while flanking is 2d6+11+3d6. That's 2d6 base, +7 from strength, +1 from the magical enchantment, +1 from fever iron, +2 from the Weapon Specialization feat, +2d6 from sneak attack, +1d6 from flaming. For a critical (x2), you would dead 4d6+22+3d6. The base damage (2d6) is multiplied, and so is the +11 damage. The +3d6 bonus dice are not multiplied.


For your third question, it would mostly be up to the DM. I can't think of a time when the issue came up, and the text for Flaming Burst could be read either way - either it applies to the multiplier on the base weapon, or it applies to the multiplier when you swing it around.

+4d10 for a x5 critical weapon would make sense, yes.


1.) The unarmed variant of the Swordsage (Tome of Battle) is probably the closest you're going to find. Getting the DM to allow chaotic monks is certainly a possibility, as being lawful isn't exactly much of a restriction. I suppose a wildshaping druid would technically fit, although it probably does not match the nature of your request. :smalltongue:

2.) There aren't a lot of ways to modify a base weapon, mainly because of "King of Smack" abuse. There are several prestige classes that can make a weapon more effective while used (Weapon Master improved the natural crit range, I believe) and several materials which can change a weapon's properities. The biggest way to modify a weapon is to just wield a bigger one. Enlarge Person will increase the size of the weapon (and damage dice it deals) while any race with Powerful Build (such as a Half Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants)) will allow you to wield large weapons from the start.

2009-11-26, 03:34 PM
"King of Smack" abuse?

Heres what I'm trying to figure out.

*FLUFF*My character (Barbarian from the frozen north) has been sent out on his 'vision quest'. His goal is simple: Become the strongest. He believes by eating the meat of strong, magical beasts, he'll gain their strength. He also knows that he'll need a weapon to do so. When he returns in 10 years, hes going to become the 'King', so to speak of his tribe, and lead them to greatness. His weapon of choice is a Zweighander, a powerful weapon, but the weight is a constant reminder of the burden that he'll have to carry once hes his tribe's King.*FLUFF*

The character currently wields a zweighander (As per Swashbuclking Adventures):
Two handed Large martial weapon, 3d4 20 crit x4 damage, 15 lbs, slashing only.

The current way I'm seeing things is to add the following weapon modifications onto it

Zwieghander Final Form
Serrations: +50gp, No weight, No Feat, -2 Hardiness, +1 damage
Heavy Blade: +4gp, No weight, Exotic Weapon Profiency(Heavy Bladed Weapons), +1d4 dmg
Fever Iron: +1,500gp, Steel weight, No Feat, +1 Fire damage, No Cold Enchants
Zwieghander: 50gp, 15lbs, Martial Weapon, 3d4 slashing, 20 crit range, x4 multiplier
Heavy Weapon: 2xGp?, x2lbs?, Exotic Weapon Profiency(Heavy Zweighander), 1d4 -> 1d6
Masterwork: +500 gp, +1 to hit, can become enchanted.

Serrations: Pg 34 of Bastion Press - Arms & Armor
Heavy Blade & Zwieghander: Pg 165-166 of Swashbuckling Adventures
Fever Iron & Heavy Weapon: Pg 178-179 of Magic of Faerun


The 'Heavy Weapon' modification is still up in the air, I haven't been able to contact my DM about it. Basically I want the weapon to be.... Heavier, using more of the same material to make it bigger.

Now, the Heavy Blade feat pushes the balance of the blade towards the blade itself. If it becomes a bigger blade, does the die go from 1d4 -> 1d6 as per Heavier Weapons rules? It makes sense to me because the blade, infact, does get heavier, so there would be more weight on it, but like I said, its still up in the air.


The enchantments I'm thinking about adding onto this are Jagged (+3) and Firey Burst (+2). Jagged says it "cannot be stacked with the Keen quality."; does this bar me from having a feat that increases the threat range? (Jagged adds 1d6 damage, and +1 to crit multiplier)

Also, is there any other way to get a weapon past the +5 max enchantments for flavors (Not the generic +5, but stuff like Firey Burst, Jagged, Keen and the like).

Also, any other good enchantment suggestions for a weapon?

Thanks again

2009-11-26, 04:45 PM
It sounds like you're using some 3.0e material, which may not mix well with 3.5e stats. (Edit: Nevermind, it looks like you're using 3rd party material. This is even harder to define here and even more into DM-decision territory, because there is no "official" position on how it interacts with established material.)

As for special materials, Adamantine (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#adamantine) comes to mind for cutting through... well, anything. It won't overcome all Damage Reduction, but it does cut through golems really well and basically ignores hardness (so you can cut through stone like butter). You'll need to talk to your DM about a Heavy Adamantine weapon, though.

A Heavy Zwieghander would deal 3d6 damage, yes. I'm not sure if a Heavy Zwieghander with the Heavy Blade feat would deal 4d6 or 3d6+1d4, though. That's up to your DM to decide, as it could work either way.

No clue where Jagged comes from, but if it doesn't work with the Keen ability, then it probably shouldn't work with Improved Critical or the Keen Edge spell.

If your party is good at working together, having one of the spellcasters cast Greater Magic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm) on your sword means you could just have a +1 enchantment and use the other +9 on abilities. Of course, it requires the party to always be together each day, and to avoid being dispelled, which may not always be practical....

Note that there is not a limit to the abilities you can put on a sword. You cannot add over +5 to the damage enchantment and cannot add over +10 total, but nothing restricts you from a +1 Holy Flaming Merciful Ghostouch Disrupting Undeadbane Light Mace.

Good weapon enchantments include Wounding (+2, CON damage), Speed (+3, hasted), Ghost Touch (+1, hit incorporeal). Holy (+2, +2d6 vs. evil) is good in most campaigns, as you fight a lot of evil stuff. Merciful (+1, +1d6 but subdual) can also be useful if you're trying to take captives, or don't care how something drops.

There are some really good enchantments, like one that allows you to change the material of your weapon, but I don't have those splatbooks. (I also don't have the link to Wizards' forum with the relevant thread.)


For the curious, the "King of Smack" was a theoretical build which applied size increases and dice multipliers to deal absurdly large amounts of damage. It is like the Heavy Weapon properity you have listed, except applied multiple times. I think it topped out at 64d6 or 96d6 damage, or something similar.

Needless to say, if you do find the build, I would not recommend using it in-game. (It's funny to theorize about, but your DM might have problems with a character enlarging to 50' tall and swinging around something the size of the Empire State Building.)

2009-11-26, 06:04 PM
What gets multiplied by a critical hit? I've seen a lot of different takes on this(House ruling, yada yada), but from what I understand as per RAW, the only things that multipled through the crit is the weapon + str modifier.
Here's the 3.5 rule:
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
So if it's not extra damage dice, you multiply it. A +5 flaming and shock weapon? Flaming and shock are 1d6 each of extra damage, so they don't get multiplied, but the +5 does. Sneak attack with Craven feat? That's nd6 + 1 point/character level. The nd6 is extra damage dice, but the rest of this precision damage gets multiplied. STR bonus, Ranger favored enemy bonus, Knowledge Devotion bonus -- these are all some number that doesn't involve rolling any dice, so they all get multiplied.