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View Full Version : [3.5] Feat help for Divine trickster (thrower build)



Smythen
2009-11-27, 03:06 AM
Hi Guys.
Im building a divine trickster (dagger/dart thrower). He will be a whispergnome, so with the standard entry into Divine trickster i will only get 7 feats in total over 20 lvls (no flaws allowed).
(all books alowed, except Tome of batle and unearthed arcana. I will probably have average to high stats)

As i will be throwing, i would like to go TWF. But what about the rest of my feats, any ideas?

Im also thinking of making a dip into Pious Templar to get metle. That leaves me with 3 class lvls, that im not sure what i should use for, maybe cragtop archer to get some super range (though its almost imposible to meet the feat requirements.


So my build would look like this, with the feats still being debateable:
LVL Class Bab SA Caster lvl Feat
1 Rogue 0 1d6 0 -- TWF
2 Cleric 0 1d6 1
3 Rogue 1 1d6 1 -- Quick draw
4 Rogue 2 2d6 1
5 Cleric 3 2d6 2
6 Cleric 4 2d6 3 -- extend
7 DivineT 4 2d6 4
8 DivineT 5 3d6 5
9 DivineT 6 3d6 6 -- ITWF
10 DivineT 7 4d6 7
11 DivineT 7 3d6 8
12 DivineT 8 5d6 9 -- Holy warrior
13 DivineT 9 5d6 10
14 DivineT 10 6d6 11
15 Cleric 11 6d6 12 -- GTW
16 DivineT 11 6d6 13
17 DivineT 12 7d6 14
18 Pious T 13 7d6 14 --
19
20

Eldariel
2009-12-01, 05:43 AM
I suggest slightly superior entry: Rogue 1/(Cloistered) Cleric 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 3/Divine Trickster 10

This enables you to only lose one caster level. That's important since you really need to get Divine Power ASAP if you plan on TWFing. The last levels you could use with whatever. I don't see how Cragtop Archer helps a Sneak Attacking [Sneak Attack damage doesn't work beyond 30'] TWF thrower build [thrown weapons have a short range anyways], especially since you can't spare the feats no matter how you try.

I mean, honestly, TWF line is 3 feats and you need at least Quick Draw for decent throwing. Then you want some divine feats & metamagic, Rapid Shot, Power Throw and you notice that whops, you've been out of feats for quite a while now. Btw, just take something that continues your divine casting. Divine casting is good. Maybe even just continue Cloistered Cleric; it has nice skill points and all.

Smythen
2009-12-04, 07:06 AM
Im sure you mean Shadowbane stalker?
I like you entry advice, im just not sure about the cloistered cleric. Poor BaB seems to be the only drawback, but it will delay me access to improved and greater TWF.
And i will loose evasion from the rogue aswell as more BaB.

Cragtop Archer is definely out of the game. Caster lvl, and bonus feats is all that matters to me at the high end.
1 lvl of Pious templar is still in the game, an ekstra domain and metle is worth alot.

Eldariel
2009-12-04, 07:18 AM
Im sure you mean Shadowbane stalker?
I like you entry advice, im just not sure about the cloistered cleric. Poor BaB seems to be the only drawback, but it will delay me access to improved and greater TWF.
And i will loose evasion from the rogue aswell as more BaB.

Cragtop Archer is definely out of the game. Caster lvl, and bonus feats is all that matters to me at the high end.
1 lvl of Pious templar is still in the game, an ekstra domain and metle is worth alot.

Just use Divine Power once you gain access to it; your BAB will be horrible anyways and one extra point isn't gonna matter as much as the extra skill points.

And not taking extra Rogue levels only costs you Evasion (get the Ring); your BAB with Cleric 3/Rogue 2, Cleric 4/Rogue 1, Cloistered Cleric 3/Rogue 2 and Cloistered Cleric 4/Rogue 1 is pretty much all the same (well, Cloistered Cleric builds lose 1 BAB compared to straight Cleric but gain so many skill points that it's an easy trade). If you have fractional BAB, it's gonna be much easier for you.

And bloody hell, you're a Rogue; 2+Int skills per level for 3-4 levels just doesn't cut it. 6+Int is muuuuuch much more doable. And getting ITWF and GTWF is gonna take forever anyways; just roll with it. You could use the Gloves of the Balanced Hands [MiC] or something to gain item-based ITWF until you can pick the feat.

Smythen
2009-12-04, 07:33 AM
TWF just seems to be the only way for this guy to get of alot of attacks, that are needed for SA, and buff dammage from divine spells.

For the metamagic feats ill just go with extend what else is needed.

Ill have to bow down to your argument about the entry and Cloistered Cleric for skill points. The next big question is will my GM allow varriant classes.

Eldariel
2009-12-04, 07:38 AM
Well, Divine Metamagic [CDiv]: Persistent Spell [CArc] could be a great way to keep your buffs up. That costs you two more feats and requires Turn Undead-attempts to fuel Divine Metamagic, but it's pretty solid either way (you can use stuff like Reliquary Holy Symbol [MiC] and Nightsticks [Libris Mortis] to fuel it better than you can afford on your own).

Either way, I'd pack Quicken Spell. It's excellent especially with stuff like Divine Favor later on. It's a good feat to take around level 12. Other than Extend/Persistent/Quicken, I think you don't need anything, and you shouldn't probably pick up Persistent unless you're going to DMM it.


Note that domains can help you with your feats. Planning grants Extend Spell, Elf grants Point Blank Shot, Undeath grants Extra Turning (for Divine Metamagic), etc. So yeah, I suggest looking into Domains that'd help you since you're very feat-starved. Spell Compendium has pretty much all the interesting ones.

Smythen
2009-12-04, 07:45 AM
Note that domains can help you with your feats. Planning grants Extend Spell, Elf grants Point Blank Shot, Undeath grants Extra Turning (for Divine Metamagic), etc. So yeah, I suggest looking into Domains that'd help you since you're very feat-starved. Spell Compendium has pretty much all the interesting ones.

Trickery is necessary to enter divine trickster, so that one is certain.
PLaying a cloistered cleric ads knowledge domain.
celerity would be my first option for +10' move hase and other good domain spells.
War from pious templar (if chosen) grants weapon focus. ups.
thats pretty much the options, any ideas for other ways to grap extra domains.

Smythen
2009-12-04, 07:50 AM
Well, Divine Metamagic [CDiv]: Persistent Spell [CArc] could be a great way to keep your buffs up. That costs you two more feats and requires Turn Undead-attempts to fuel Divine Metamagic, but it's pretty solid either way (you can use stuff like Reliquary Holy Symbol [MiC] and Nightsticks [Libris Mortis] to fuel it better than you can afford on your own).

Either way, I'd pack Quicken Spell. It's excellent especially with stuff like Divine Favor later on. It's a good feat to take around level 12. Other than Extend/Persistent/Quicken, I think you don't need anything, and you shouldn't probably pick up Persistent unless you're going to DMM it.


thats way to many feats spend on metamagic, as i wont be a primary caster. Ill stick to extend. and feats that makes him a better thrower (more attacks, dammage and range).

BTW is there away to get acces to ranger spells as a cleric?

Eldariel
2009-12-04, 07:59 AM
thats way to many feats spend on metamagic, as i wont be a primary caster. Ill stick to extend. and feats that makes him a better thrower (more attacks, dammage and range).

BTW is there away to get acces to ranger spells as a cleric?

Before Miracle? Well, few, but they're mostly quite abusive (the literal interpretation of Extend Spell-feat, some Dweomerkeeper tricks...). And definitely pick up Quicken Spell no matter what you do; Extend is useful, but Quicken basically doubles your actions. It doesn't matter whether or not you're a primary caster; being able to cast twice the buffs in one round really improves your throwing damage.

Divine Favor alone is +3 To Hit and +3 To Damage. Divine Power gives you full BAB among others. Righteous Wrath of the Faithful [SC] gives you some Morale-bonuses, extra attack and so on. Spells are the best sources of extra damage and hit bonus for you; being able to cast 'em while making full attacks is incredible.


Extra Domains: Well, there's a feat named Planar Touchstone [Planar Handbook], which can be bound to location "Catalogues of Enlightement" - that allows you to pick one Domain Granted Power. Contemplative [CDiv] PrC allows you to gain a couple Domains with few levels. Few other PrCs also add more Domains.

Smythen
2010-02-16, 05:20 AM
I took all your advice and made the character, dropped the knifefighting part and ended up making a cleric - archer build.... :smallsmile:

Best of all i found the spell Lore of the gods. +10 to knowledge (if you deity grants knowledge domain) checks for 10min/lvl. And the skilltrick, colector of stories (+5 kvowledge to identify creatures, once per encounter) So my knowledge devotion makes up for the lack of BaB, until i get divinepower.

All in all an effective char, with a cool concept that makes the Rangers favorite enemy ability look stupid.

I still hope to get some items that lets me twoweapon fight and throw around daggers. Thx again for all your help.