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MichielHagen
2009-11-27, 09:35 AM
I am planning on building a tank, but i could use some good starting points.
The character needs to be able to stand in the frontline without worrying too much about being smacked to bits.

Books: Core, all 3.5 books (Completes, Races, ToB, ToM, ....).
No dragon magazine stuff, no setting specific books except for Faerun.

What i need is Feats, Races, Classes, PrC's, items so i have some starting points to build a tank.

It is not all about optimization, something fun, different, flavorfull is well appreciated too.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-27, 09:37 AM
What do you mean by Tank? Someone who can dish it and recieve it? Warblade or Crusader. Someone who can force enemies to attack him? Knight or Crusader. Someone who can prevent damage to the party? Conjurer/Malconvoker.

MichielHagen
2009-11-27, 09:39 AM
Like i said:

"The character needs to be able to stand in the frontline without worrying too much about being smacked to bits."

Protecting the others is what he is trying to accomplish.

Edwin
2009-11-27, 09:43 AM
How complicated do you want it to be?

A simple fighter with a high con score can be reasonably good at taking and doing damage, though there are some interesting things out there.

Knights have taunting abilities, a nice repertoire of neat skills and abilities revolving around tanking, so they're a decent choice. Has to be lawful though.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-27, 09:49 AM
I'd recommend Crusader or Knight, then. Knight gets you the ability to force enemies to attack you based on your Cha, which can be awesome if you play it right(insult fighting is awesome RP). Crusader is better at both defense and offense, but isn't as great RP and requires more work to get the enemy to attack you. For race, anything without a penalty to Con, Str, or Cha works, though I love the idea of a Heroyanki Crusader.

MichielHagen
2009-11-27, 09:57 AM
How complicated do you want it to be?


Complication is not a problem. I have a decent knowledge of D&D and the time to research the rest.

I have considered Crusader at first, but since our last "tank" had some levels in it, i might try to avoid it.

The Knight is an option i am going to look into, reading the book right now.

I am having trouble finding anything about Heroyanki...

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-27, 10:05 AM
Complication is not a problem. I have a decent knowledge of D&D and the time to research the rest.

I have considered Crusader at first, but since our last "tank" had some levels in it, i might try to avoid it.

The Knight is an option i am going to look into, reading the book right now.

I am having trouble finding anything about Heroyanki...OA. They're a race with the ability to turn into a Sparrow. A Sparrow using Stone Dragon is just too cool. And White Raven would be obvious.

Ianuagonde
2009-11-27, 10:18 AM
For feat, Steadfast Determination is an excellent choice. Use your Con instead of Wis on will saves, and you no longer autofail fort saves on a natural 1. Smart casters (and most are) usually toss their will-spells on the tank. The only downside is that you need the mostly useless Endurance feat as a prereq.

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-27, 10:23 AM
depending on the DM, endurance can be a good thing

Dacia Brabant
2009-11-27, 11:33 AM
If psionics are allowed, Psychic Warrior does well at tanking, and Half-Giant or Goliath (Powerful Build), Elan (Enhanced Elan Resilience, or trading PSPs for HP at a nice exchange rate) or Kalashtar (making Monk useful, if only as a 1-level dip) (Edit: nevermind, didn't notice the Faerun-only requirement) for races depending on what you want to get out of it.

You're heavily armored and armed, and you're self-buffing so you don't have to feel like you're reliant on the party wizard or cleric to let you do your job. Your powers give you a nice range of combat tricks and ways to soak damage as well as dish it out. There's a feat tree that gives you a melee touch attack essentially 1/round (and you have as many bonus feats as you'll need to cover it). And if you don't like the new agey pseudo-scientific flavor of D&D psionics (most folks don't) just treat it as another form of sorcery and use gemstones instead of crystals.

Gnaeus
2009-11-27, 11:47 AM
Clerics make great tanks. Druids make good tanks, and bring a spare tank with them.

ErrantX
2009-11-27, 11:57 AM
A good tank build would be to play a Crusader/Cleric and go into Ruby Knight Vindicator, get tower shield proficiency if you'd like, and get Travel Devotion. Swift actions to move yourself around at the cost of turn attempts? Yes please. Devoted Spirit and White Raven maneuvers? Yes please. Clerical magic available to 9th level? Oh heck yes please!!

There's a reason it's called the Ruby Knight Windicator! I'm playing one in my friend's game and it's a blast.

-X

Radiun
2009-11-27, 11:57 AM
Clerics make great tanks. Druids make good tanks, and bring a spare tank with them.

On that note, Dire Bat animal companions with Natural bond to offset the level penalty make superb tanks, having high AC and Saves.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-11-27, 05:23 PM
I'd make a Dragonfire Adept, from Dragon Magic. Wear full plate armor and use a tower shield, don't worry about nonproficiency penalties. Every day use Endure Exposure on your whole party. Take the feat Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon, and spam your entangling breath attack every round. Also take Dreadful Wrath in PGtF if your DM will let your breath attack activate it. Your opponents will be debuffed by entangle and shaken, taking a significant penalty to attacks and movement. You'll be dealing constant damage every round, thereby presenting yourself as a threat and as the source of their penalties. Your high AC combined with their penalties to attack will ensure that you won't take many hits at all, and if possible get someone else in the party to use a reach weapon with Combat Reflexes (or get Leadership) to discourage enemies from maneuvering past you to get at other party members.

Keld Denar
2009-11-27, 05:32 PM
ToB for dummies (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=357.0)

I'd suggest some kind of Crusader/Warblade hybred. You want Thicket of Blades, a reach weapon (Spinning Sword from Secrets of Sarlona is a 1handed reach weapon, otherwise use a Spiked Chain or similar reach/adjacent weapon). Crusader gives you some nice defenses with Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon maneuvers to heal you and prevent damage, while Warblade gives you some big beaters in Iron Heart and Diamond Mind. Iron Heart also allows you to nab Stormguard Warrior, a pretty potent beatdown feat for any AoO centric build.

AslanCross
2009-11-27, 05:41 PM
I'd go with Knight/Crusader. You can actually tell the monsters to attack you, can take damage well, can stop them from going around you (Thicket of Blades + Bulwark of Defense + Vigilant Defender), and can heal as well as hit really hard.

The White Raven Defense stance gives you an AC boost (although none of the White Raven weapons are reach weapons, unfortunately).

I'd recommend warforged with a glaive (since you can initiate maneuvers with the warforged's natural slam attack without provoking AOOs), but since you can only use Faerun-specific books, that's out.

cZak
2009-11-29, 03:59 PM
How about warforged as a race: improve your DR with feats so by level 9 you'd have DR 5/ -.

And make your primary weapon vampiric (MIC); you get back 1d6 hp every time you damage something.

Having a construct/ homonculous with fast healing and the SLA of Shield other also extends your life pretty well.

Anonymouswizard
2009-11-29, 05:21 PM
I'd make a Dragonfire Adept, from Dragon Magic. Wear full plate armor and use a tower shield, don't worry about nonproficiency penalties. Every day use Endure Exposure on your whole party. Take the feat Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon, and spam your entangling breath attack every round. Also take Dreadful Wrath in PGtF if your DM will let your breath attack activate it. Your opponents will be debuffed by entangle and shaken, taking a significant penalty to attacks and movement. You'll be dealing constant damage every round, thereby presenting yourself as a threat and as the source of their penalties. Your high AC combined with their penalties to attack will ensure that you won't take many hits at all, and if possible get someone else in the party to use a reach weapon with Combat Reflexes (or get Leadership) to discourage enemies from maneuvering past you to get at other party members.

No. We do not want ASF for our abilities. That would be Bad. BAAAAAAD!

AslanCross
2009-11-29, 05:40 PM
How about warforged as a race: improve your DR with feats so by level 9 you'd have DR 5/ -.

And make your primary weapon vampiric (MIC); you get back 1d6 hp every time you damage something.

Having a construct/ homonculous with fast healing and the SLA of Shield other also extends your life pretty well.

He said he's not using any setting-specific books apart from Faerun books, so Warforged is a no-go unless his DM considers Races of Eberron as one of the Generic Races books instead of an Eberron-specific book.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-29, 05:42 PM
Warforged is either in MM4 or MM5.

Glimbur
2009-11-29, 06:00 PM
No. We do not want ASF for our abilities. That would be Bad. BAAAAAAD!

ASF is only a problem if you want to use abilities that check for ASF in combat. Just take Invocations that are all-day buffs, like the aforementioned Endure Exposure.

arguskos
2009-11-29, 06:02 PM
Warforged is either in MM4 or MM5.
MM3. :smalltongue:

Also,

OA. They're a race with the ability to turn into a Sparrow. A Sparrow using Stone Dragon is just too cool. And White Raven would be obvious.
You and the damn Hengyokai. There was the Tibbit too. Do you just really like tiny frikkin' characters? :smalltongue:

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-29, 09:08 PM
You and the damn Hengyokai. There was the Tibbit too. Do you just really like tiny frikkin' characters? :smalltongue:My backup is a 12' tall winged War Hulk in massive armor. Not to mention the(so far conceptual) Pacifist Sorcerer who specializes in fire damage. I play characters with oddities to them.

mabriss lethe
2009-11-29, 10:00 PM
I just put together a raptorian ruby knight vindicator. It's a pretty nasty customer.

WeeFreeMen
2009-12-02, 12:35 AM
I just put together a raptorian ruby knight vindicator. It's a pretty nasty customer.

Im interested.
May we see it? :D

Person_Man
2009-12-02, 10:30 AM
Guide to Melee Combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026).

Scroll down, and you'll also find links to my Knight Handbook (which has many builds on it), Shield Guide, Power Attack Guide, etc.

Here are a couple of good stock tanks builds:

Hellreaver

Barbarian 1/Paladin of Freedom 4/Hellreaver X

Barbarian for Pounce (Complete Champion variant) and Rage.

Paladin of Freedom (Unearthed Arcana variant) for immunity to Compulsion, Cha to Saves, and Turn Undead.

Hellreaver (Fiendish Codex II) for Mettle, Immunity to Fear, and the ability to heal 10/20/30 (depending on your level) every round of combat as a Swift Action.

You can get Evasion from a ring (DMG). Or you can swap out Barbarian for two levels of Rogue or Monk or Divine Oracle (Evasion in mechanus gear!)

Also be sure to pick up the Tabard of Valor: When reduced to 50% hit points or less, you gain Mettle. If you already have Mettle, you gain Improved Mettle (which works just like Improved Evasion, but for Will and Fort Saves). A must have for any Knight/Hexblade or Knight/Hellreaver. Complete Champion pg 142.

So, high hit points, Pounce, high Saves, immunities, full BAB, and the ability to heal yourself every round of combat. And all of your feats are open for whatever combo you want. Pretty much everything you need in a tank.
Sir Wisdom the SAD

Elan Paladin 4/Sanctified Mind 1/War Mind 5/Sanctified Mind 2-6

A Paladin using the Serenity feat (Dragon Magazine, also on Crystalkeep, also a common houserule) uses Wis instead of Cha for all of his class abilities. So now your Wis improves all of your Saves (and it effectively doubles up on your Will Save), and you can use it for Smite (bonus to hit) and Turn Undead uses (various Divine feats).

Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. Unlike most other classes, you can enter it at ECL 5. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.

War Mind (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:War_Mind) is a nifty PrC. His best class feature is Sweeping Strike, which can be abused all kinds of ways with Attack of Opportunity combos. But he also gets Wis based Psychic Warrior power progression. It's relatively fast progression, too. At ECL 15, you essentially have the same powers as a 15th level Psychic Warrior.

The Intuitive Attack (Book of Exalted Deeds) feat allows you to use your Wis bonus for your To-Hit bonus with simple or natural weapons.

The Enhanced Elan Resilience (Complete Psionic) feat improves your Elan ability to spend your Power Points (based on Wis) to negate damage to 4 points per power point spent. You can also burn 1 point to get +4 to your Saves for 1 round. Though you need to be careful about this, as both are an Immediate Action, and thus can be done once per round. Alternatively or in addition, you can also get temporary hit points with the Vigor power, and/or heal with Hostile Empathic Transfer when you need to. And/or you can set up the standard Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion combo. Just be mindful that you have very limited power points, though you're helped out by bonus power points from a high Wis, and can buy a Mindfeeder (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mindfeeder) weapon to get more.

Plus Mage Slayer feats have no effect on manifester levels, as the transparency rules have no effect on feats (otherwise a Psychic Warrior could take Practiced Caster and metamagic feats, which they can't). So casters have a lot to fear from you.

Buy a Monk's Belt, and you get Wis to AC (including Touch AC). Improve both AC's even higher by using the Shield and Inertial Armor powers. And since you're not wearing armor, you can buy a Ring of Evasion, just to be extra cautious.

To top it off, take a look at the Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) to get free movement every turn, so that you can make a full attack every round. (Not that you need it. You have Hustle. But it's nice to be thorough).

Put it all together, and you get a PC who has Wis based Turn Undead, Saves, To-Hit, AC, and (essentially) hit points, with full BAB, 15th level Psychic Warrior abilities, plenty of divine and psionic options, and numerous useful class abilities.

Hentai, the Knight Protector

Whatever Knight X

Cha > Dex > Str (13+)> Con > Int (10+) > Wis (dump): Basically, this Knight has three goals:

1) Get access to Standstill (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Stand_Still), Combat Reflexes, Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane), Supernatural Opportunist (Tome of Magic), and Frightful Presence (Draconomicon).

2) Getting ridiculous reach. This can be accomplished a number of ways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777). It should be relatively easy for you to get 30+ feet of reach with a moderate investment. If a friend isn't willing to buff you (Enlarge Person), take the Arcane Schooling (Player’s Guide to Faerun pg 33) and now you can use wands without UMD.

3) Find a way to consistently deal 40ish damage per hit - not very hard with decent Str, a two handed weapon magic weapon, etc. This will make the Reflex Saves needed to accomplish any type of movement and the Concentration checks needed to cast ridiculously hard.

Put these together with your Knight class abilities (Bulwark of Defense, Vigilant Defender, Daunting Challenge, Test of Mettle) and basically everyone within your reach will be screwed one way or another. Stand near the party Wizard or whoever needs to be protected the most, and the enemies will come to you, even without Test of Mettle.

The down side of this build is that it really doesn't come together until at least ECL 12ish, if not much higher. It lacks any offensive combo besides Fear, though you could certainly add some at high levels. And your DM is definitely going to use lots of very long range enemies against you, so be prepared.

Flaming Homer, the Bowling Ball of DOOM!!!

Goliath
Barbarian 1/Fighter 6/Psychic Warrior 2/Pyrokineticist 1/Warmind 5/Full BAB class X

or

Half-Giant
Barbarian 1/Fighter 6/Pyrokineticist 1/Warmind 5/Full BAB class X

If your DM cares about experience penalties for multi-classing, you'll want to use Goliath Barbarian 6/Fighter 6/Pyrokineticist 1/Warmind 5/full BAB class. Or if you're willing to give up all day Pounce, the quickest method to get the combo working is Half Giant Fighter 6/Pyrokineticist 1/Warmind 5/Full BAB class X. You could also drop Pyrokineticist, if you don't care about Touch Attacks.

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Knockback, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Hold the Line, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Karmic Strike.

Other Feats for Consideration: Improved Unarmed Strike, Battle Jump, Mage Slayer, Extra Rage.

Books: SRD, Complete Warrior, Races of Stone (Knockback), Unapproachable East (Battle Jump), Dungeonscape (Dungeon Crasher ability), Complete Champion (Barbarian Pounce variant).

Before combat, use the Expansion power on yourself to increase your reach. Also, you should also note that all whips, including fire lashes, don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. So you'll need Improved Unarmed Strike, armor spikes, or a natural weapon to make AoO. My preference is Claws of the Beast. Note that the FAQ specifically clarifies that you can switch between a two handed weapon and a natural weapon for in the same round. If your DM doesn't agree with the FAQ, you can use Bite of the Wolf or dip into a one level of Monk instead.

There are also a variety of spells, feats, items, and special abilities that improve your natural reach, and I suggest you use whatever you can.

Charge 10 feet into your enemy. Make a touch attack with your Fire Lash as a two-handed weapon (as it explicitly says you can in the FAQ). Transfer your full BAB to Leap Attack to increase your damage. Make sure that your initial enemy is close to you when you attack him if possible, as you want to keep your enemies in your threatened area each time you knock him back.

If your enemy is standing next to another enemy, each attack also applies to them (Warmind Sweeping Strike). Since Sweeping Strike requires that you move no more then 10 feet during your turn, you can use Hustle+Psionic Dimension Door to move around the battlefield. But your reach is pretty huge, so you shouldn't have to do that very often. You can also just wait for your enemies to come to you, and ready an action to smack them when they come near you.

Each enemy that you hit gets a free Bull Rush attempt (Knockback) on each attack, applying your damage and Leap Attack bonus to the opposed Str check.

This should allow you to push your enemy several spaces backwards. For each space you move your enemy backwards, you may also shift him one hex to the left or the right (Shock Trooper). If this pushes your enemy into the same hex as another enemy, you get a free Trip Attempt on each of them (Shock Trooper, again).

Assuming you still threaten their spaces, each successful Trip gets a free follow up attack (Improved Trip), and each successful melee attack gets a free Bull Rush, which can start another Shock Trooper+Improved Trip combo. And every melee attack can also apply to someone standing next to your enemy using Sweeping Strike.

If you kill someone (you will) you get a Cleave attack, which will also apply to whoever is standing next to them, and start the Attack+Bull Rush+Trip+Attack... combo, again.

And at any time you can Bull Rush an enemy into a wall or other inanimate object, you get to use the Dungeon Crasher ability to deal an extra 8d6 + (3 x Str mod) damage, in addition to your insane Leap Attack damage. This is really easy to pull off, since with Shock Trooper and your uber Bull Rush multiplier, you should be able to fling enemies pretty far. Alternatively, you can have a friend summon a wall in the middle of the battlefield, forcing your enemies to walk around it, and giving you something to Bull Rush them into.
Also note that dead bodies are considered objects, and not allies or enemies. So once you kill something, you should be able to fling enemies into their dead comrades (though your DM will probably rule that they need to be Large size or bigger in order for this to work).

In addition, a whip provokes an AoO from your enemy whenever you use it while adjacent to it. This is a great opportunity for you, because thanks to Karmic Strike it essentially gives you another chance to start up your chain of attacks if by some odd chance you miss on your first touch attack. Though obviously if you're more defense oriented, you'll want to keep your enemies 10 feet away from you when you hit them with the lash.

Using the Complete Champion Barbarian variant, you get Pounce. So you get a full attack virtually every round.

Or if you'd prefer better Expansion and less Pounce, you can dump your Barbarian levels and invest in more Warmind levels earlier instead, depending on Psionic Lion's Charge or Hustle when you need a full attack.

If someone charges you (they pretty much have to in order reach you) you get a free AoO from Hold the Line, resolved immediately before the charge attack, in addition to the normal AoO you'd get for them moving through your threatened area. Which AGAIN, can trigger your combo.

Be sure to buy a backup reach weapon that doesn't deal fire damage. Your DM is most definitely going to throw fire immune enemies at you. See Invisibility or something similar will also help a lot, as will flight.

Also, I'm well aware that this requires an obscene number of feats for the full combo to work. If you think its too many, just drop feats from the end of the list. All you really need is Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Knockback, Shock Trooper, and Dungeoncrasher. Everything else is just gravy.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-02, 12:00 PM
May I make a suggestion if you don't want to do a knight crusader?

I would sugest doing a knight + trip build... so mabye a knight/fighter or knight/psi warrior... even though most of these will be MAD

Battle field control builds are realy the best "tanking" builds in d&d for non casters.

I think the knight cut off point is 3 or 4.

so i would go knight3-4 / Fighter x or psiwarrior x/ barbarian 1 (for pounce/rage)