Am I a space parasite?

[Ichneumon]

First of all, the content of this post is not entirely seriously. In fact, the thoughts here were inspired by watching a Star Trek episode. I offer these thoughts, that interested me, to you for your own reflection.

How do we know our thoughts, our consciousness really our own and not somebody elses? How do we know this body is really ours?

Imagine, a strange space parasite, taking over the nervous system and using my body to interact with the fysical world, imagine it capable of reading my old memories (but it would retain its own personality, not take over mine), so it could blend in more easy. Let's assume that modern medical technology isn't capable of detecting this parasite in normal procedures and only if it were actively searching for such a parasite.

Now, such a parasite would of course be aware of it's own parasitism. However, imagine that because of some kind of accident it would lose its own memories and only retain those of the host. Now, imagine such an event would happen very early in the hosts childhood, like when he/she was still a baby. The parasite would grow up, shape it's personality and identity, as if it were fully human and no-one would notice the "person" wouldn't be the child, but a parasite within.

Discuss.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Because when a Yeerk takes over your body, you're left completely conscious and watching as the Yeerk manipulates your friends and family.

They made that very clear in the books. :smalltongue:

[Ashen Lilies]

Assuming it happens as you describe... Why does it matter? You grew up human, you look like a human, you act like a human, you feel like a human, love and hate like a human... Do I need to go on, or can I go and wash my mouth out for saying something so cliche and sappy? :smalltongue:

I mean, okay, you've technically comitted murder, but nobdy's perfect.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Assuming it happens as you describe... Why does it matter? You grew up human, you look like a human, you act like a human, you feel like a human, love and hate like a human... Do I need to go on, or can I go and wash my mouth out for saying something so cliche and sappy? :smalltongue:

Right up until the parasite reaches puberty at 60 years of age and becomes a child-sized insect-like carnivore with a lamprey maw the size of a sink full of razor-sharp teeth.

...Then again, it'd still feel all those human emotions and memories. Hopefully.

[CrimsonAngel]

So when I was 11 an emo parasite crawled into me the died when I was 12 1/2. It's the only explination.

[Ashen Lilies]

Right up until the parasite reaches puberty at 60 years of age and becomes a child-sized insect-like carnivore with a lamprey maw the size of a sink full of razor-sharp teeth.

...Then again, it'd still feel all those human emotions and memories. Hopefully.

5gp says it'll use its newfound parasite powers to seek out and destroy all the other parasites in the world, before nobly committing suicide-by-Torchwood, thereby halting the Space Parasite invasion of Earth.

[Tiger Duck]

You know if I was, that would explain a lot ^^

[Mauve Shirt]

What an excellent excuse to avoid responsibility for my actions!
I'd be doing well in school, but a space parasite took over my brain at a young age, and it doesn't know how to learn the way the school system wants it to.

[GoC]

"Me" refers to the software running on the hardware that is my brain.
Whether I am a space-parasite or not is irrelevant.

[Mercenary Pen]

Because when a Yeerk takes over your body, you're left completely conscious and watching as the Yeerk manipulates your friends and family.

They made that very clear in the books. :smalltongue:

But how do you know that the books weren't authored by someone infested by a yeerk who was trying to cover it up?

[Atelm]

Higurashi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) had something similar in the form of the "Hinamizawa Syndrome", much paranoia, maniacal laughter, and bloodshed ensued. :smallamused:

[Ichneumon]

"Me" refers to the software running on the hardware that is my brain.
Whether I am a space-parasite or not is irrelevant.

I agree. "you" would still be yourself, only the source (the hardware, body) the "You" originates from would be different. Although I can't say I would be totally indifferent about being such a parasite.

[Flickerdart]

I'd be interested in finding out whether the space parasite would give me psionic powers. Which it should by the Rule of Cool.

[Coidzor]

Well, morally I guess it depends on what happens to the base consciousness. Is it "I have no mouth but I must scream?" "Dreamless Coma?" "Dream Coma?" "Death of original consciousness?"

The only way to know for one's self would be fairly easy. If one were the parasite at the helm of the body, then the parasite would be aware of its nature. If one were but a human/host thing, one would be capable of wondering and questioning whether they had a clear line of memory back through the ages.

There is no way for anyone else to know, or even get suspicious that something is up with the body unless the parasite is an idiot and is too obvious about a change in personality, which could be passed off in a number of ways anyway.

The second example is exactlyalmost like transporter clones being the result of murdering the original person in the course of transporting them rather than being the actual person who stepped into the transporter, except that we don't know whether the host-person is destroyed by virtue of being parasitized or merely stuck in stasis as a baby's dormant mind in an X body or the baby's mind has developed along with its body but is basically the same as the parasite due to being in the same body-mind and experiencing the same things with the same memory.

Though, simply by virtue of being a disparate entity within the same flesh, the development of the parasite consciousness could be different depending upon what sort of baseline tendencies they have to react to certain things in their nature, even if subjected to the exact same nurture that the host would have in a hypothetical timeline where it was not possessed as a baby.

[Recaiden]

It doesn't matter. Since I've lost my memory, there is effectively no difference.

[Gaelbert]

Descartes had a scenario similar to this. He wondered if maybe we weren't actually experiencing the world at all, that maybe we were in some sort of magical device controlled by a demon. And then he wondered if we were real at all. And that's where the "I think, therefore I am" comes from. He said that since he had thought, then there must be something to do the thinking. The way he reasoned out of the demon device part was a little ridiculous, so my brain chose to forget it.
At least that's how I remember it. There's your tangentially relevant information of the day.

[golentan]

Okay, first of all this is coming up WAY too often for me to feel comfortable.

So welcome, brother, to earth. Enjoy your stay, visit the tourist destinations, and don't drink the water (there's either fluoride or parasites, depending on where you live). There is no immigration process, as nobody seems to realize we aren't already citizens, so if you want to stay good on you, and if not I'm working on a zero point drive but won't let you on board.

Now that that's out of the way, why do you care? Consider your answer carefully.

I care because it gives my access to years of memory and handy technical skills as needed (I can pick Locks. And reason the function and repair of engines. And build a plasma rifle, but keep that one under your hat), an extra sensory suite (a few wavelengths in terrible resolution only, sadly) and a convenient mental buffer when things get rough (I view myself as a Symbiote. And that goes for me as well.) while retaining the benefit of hands. Side effects may include dissociation, and it all may be in my crazy, crazy head. But then where did I learn how to pick locks? And how do I know when they turn on the X-ray machine next door with perfect accuracy?

Since you evidently don't have that, I don't see why it matters. Be a good person, and you can't really be held responsible for pre-amnesiac decisions in any moral sense, and no court in the world would convict you.

[Moff Chumley]

Since you evidently don't have that, I don't see why it matters. Be a good person, and you can't really be held responsible for pre-amnesiac decisions in any moral sense, and no court in the world would convict you.

And in the end, isn't that really all that matters?

[golentan]

And in the end, isn't that really all that matters?

No, what really matters is pudding, with noodles in it.

After that, what matters is that you only commit crimes that the police (and then judge, and then jury) feel so silly describing that they just go to their happy place and start humming rather than writing you up.

[Ichneumon]

I think from now on I'm going to call myself, in private, #29, after the day when I discovered what I really am, an alien parasite. A number, because I don't know my origin or anything of my history, except this unquestionable fact.

[golentan]

I think from now on I'm going to call myself, in private, #29, after the day when I discovered what I really am, an alien parasite. A number, because I don't know my origin or anything of my history, except this unquestionable fact.

May I suggest #55 (Chechea Ineka, or Chechine for short) as a base six alternative? I like base six, all of my internal metrics have thirteen points (0, 6 positive, 6 negative).

[pendell]

This reminds me amazingly of the concept of Otherkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin) which I asked about several months ago. No one on this board would admit to being one of these people, but people who have this feeling of ... alienation? Unworldliness? .... is not uncommon.

Does it really matter, though, whether you're a space parasite or a cheetah or possessed by spirits or 100% human? We still live in a world dominated by people who are (apparently) human and it's our job to make do as best we can. I think we all have to learn to be human and accept the human world even if we aren't, in fact, biologically homo sapiens.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Zanaril]

Should it be worrying that this is something I've already wondered about repeatedly? :smalltongue:

I think it's just one of those questions we delight in not being able to answer; such as whether colours look the same to other people, or how we can ever be sure whether or not we're dreaming.

[golentan]

This reminds me amazingly of the concept of Otherkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin) which I asked about several months ago. No one on this board would admit to being one of these people, but people who have this feeling of ... alienation? Unworldliness? .... is not uncommon.

But...

The problem I have with Otherkin is that it seems to fall into the particular false dichotomy here. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfJesusThenAliens) I don't accept all of the crazy otherkin stuff. I just don't. It don't make sense. I don't expect other people to take me seriously without proof either, which I am naturally reluctant to give having been dissected once before.

Basically, I'm willing to believe that other people like me exist. I don't believe that everyone off the street who claims it is serious, or correct (hence my tongue in cheek responses), and am more likely to recommend a psychiatric appointment than anything else.

Which, I know you said "not entirely serious" Ichneumon. But if you are at least partially serious I see I edited that part from my first post. So I'd like to recommend at least one trip to the psychiatrist's. If it's true it can't do any harm (they can't commit you unless you are a clear risk to yourself and/or others, and can't share information unless the same), and if it's not you might escape winding up being that crazy guy on the streets who everybody gives a wide berth. Okay, probably not that bad, but you know what I mean.

[Ichneumon]

May I suggest #55 (Chechea Ineka, or Chechine for short) as a base six alternative? I like base six, all of my internal metrics have thirteen points (0, 6 positive, 6 negative).

What language is that?

I'll give your advice proper consideration, thank you.:smallsmile:

[Solaris]

This could provide an interesting explanation for the jump between human and proto-human.
Ignores science, of course, but all the best stories do.

[Pyrian]

Discuss.Isn't that what we call a "soul"? :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

This could provide an interesting explanation for the jump between human and proto-human.
Ignores science, of course, but all the best stories do.

Then you'll love a certain science fiction writer. :smallwink:

Though, I'm probably a bit muddled, but accepting it as morally neutral/approvable to do this to sapient creatures seems like it would clash with one's persona as expressed through previously stated stances about the rights of non-sapients.

[Athaniar]

This sounds like a cool idea for a Stargate episode...

[golentan]

Though, I'm probably a bit muddled, but accepting it as morally neutral/approvable to do this to sapient creatures seems like it would clash with one's persona as expressed through previously stated stances about the rights of non-sapients.

Wait... What? Who?

If you're commenting on me, living justifies almost everything (and I've been pretty consistent on that). I wouldn't hold a vampire personally accountable for trying to eat me, but I'd still try to stake him if a blood bank couldn't fill the position.

[Ichneumon]

Wait... What? Who?

If you're commenting on me, living justifies almost everything (and I've been pretty consistent on that). I wouldn't hold a vampire personally accountable for trying to eat me, but I'd still try to stake him if a blood bank couldn't fill the position.

I think he's talking about me. I'm a vegan.

Anyway, could you tell something more about being a symbiote?

[GoC]

May I suggest #55 (Chechea Ineka, or Chechine for short) as a base six alternative? I like base six, all of my internal metrics have thirteen points (0, 6 positive, 6 negative).
55 base 6=35 base 10 :smallconfused:


such as whether colours look the same to other people
I've always seen that particular "question" as meaningless in the same sense as "Could the blue exasperated fruit fly overlap with itself in matters related to postmodernism?" is meaningless.

[Quincunx]

Postmodernism? Don't be silly, it's psychoanalytic symbolism! (upon seeing the listeners' expressions) . . .what? Actually, golentan, I think you grasp that they're both problems of translation, in which case your jokes are too deadpan for me.

Pyrian: If it is, that would explain. . .damn near everything, really. Enough so to dry up whatever babblings I was about to contribute. (thinks.)

[golentan]

55 base 6=35 base 10 :smallconfused:

Doh! I hate conversions, I always carry too much.

Being a symbiote. Work together for your common good? What I do is draw a line between human memories and feelings and my own, allowing two beings with a shared set of experiences rather than forcing one side or the other into core dominance. I mean, we basically have identical memories, and so a nearly identical personality (adjusted by emotional states. I have abhuman emotions). Then we make communal decisions (which has occasionally led to arguments over what to do in a given situation), and swap off physical control vs. sensation as necessary/sensible.

[Groundhog]

This sounds like a cool idea for a Stargate episode...

Um...I thought that was what the Goa'uld did already.

[GoC]

Postmodernism? Don't be silly, it's psychoanalytic symbolism!
That... actually works?:smallconfused::smalleek:

[SDF]

If you could download a brain into a device and export it to other systems(bodies, whatever) would they all be you? There would be a lot of the same running around but they wouldn't be the original. The problem is continuity of consciousness. The original you is always going to be the same data running on the same brain continuously and linearly, any deviation is in a sense death.

[golentan]

If you could download a brain into a device and export it to other systems(bodies, whatever) would they all be you? There would be a lot of the same running around but they wouldn't be the original. The problem is continuity of consciousness. The original you is always going to be the same data running on the same brain continuously and linearly, any deviation is in a sense death.

This is unrelated to the issue at hand. A continuous consciousness doesn't require the same body, merely the same material running the same software, yes? So. Ve haf alien tinking apparatus, Jah? Und eet move from host body to new host body, Jah? Zo, host bodies are not in actuality runnink mental programz, as clever leetle parasite eez controlink separate organeezm from vithin, Jah so?

[Quincunx]

For me, Ichneumon's original premise fails (as usual, I'm sorry to say, Ichneumon proposes a self-sufficient yet closed system of thought--more on that later). How few adults have retained the limitless self-love of their childhood selves, and they yet have a shared identity between the child which believed without proof and the adult which has experienced its limits? Survivors say that the trauma 'made them what they are', even from trauma strong enough to dislodge the soul, if soul there is; the trauma is absorbed into the life and the continuum of bodily occupation. Even the folk who cleave their memories to avoid dwelling on a trauma still accrete experiences, if segregating the new ones to one 'split personality', and still claim ownership of the whole. The original resident of the mind, in its limitless acceptance, cannot be displaced.

The continuum of identity also fits with the idea of the soul as the sense of alienation, the limitless self-love which says "even though you have suffered exactly as I have suffered, you are not me" (and then follows with the lie "you do not understand me"--now trace for me the idea that understanding is a fault to be denied).


That... actually works?:smallconfused::smalleek:

Well, yes. Personal perception of color is like the personal perception of symbols--a useful but limited and closed system that might not have relevance to someone else, anything else outside of that system, or reality. If you can't seem to describe Mauve Shirt to someone else, well, maybe the problem in communication is your listener having no idea what color 'mauve' means. (I can properly sort shades of pink, mauve, and purple into a continuum of color, but curse me if I could point to one paint chip and tell you "THAT one is mauve".) The personal, closed system of psychoanalytic symbolism can tell you the meaning of blue, of flies, and which symbols can be used for exasperation (not blue). It might be useful if you would like to draw an avatar that a surrealist would appreciate. It wouldn't be useful in trying to tell another poster that you're exasperated.

[Shyftir]

Yes, you are a space parasite.

But since all life forms attempt to propagate somehow, whether completely voluntary or not, at some point your space parasite self WILL attempt to reproduce. That action will most likely make the truth very obvious at some point.

[Athaniar]

Um...I thought that was what the Goa'uld did already.

Take over hosts, yes, but that was the criteria for the whole thing to work. Goa'uld memory loss, however, that I don't remember happening.

[Prime32]

I hear Exiles had one member of the team get taken over by some body-stealing villain. They couldn't get him out, so they brainwashed him into thinking he was the host.

[Groundhog]

Take over hosts, yes, but that was the criteria for the whole thing to work. Goa'uld memory loss, however, that I don't remember happening.

You mean if the Goa'uld didn't destroy the host's personality, just subverted it, and then lost its memory, leaving it with the memory and personality of the host? Then the person would appear to have miraculously recovered, but retain all of the Goa'uld powers, right?

[Athaniar]

That was the premise of the thread, yes. Forgot about the powers, though, that'd make it even more interesting.

[thubby]

if I hijacked some poor slob's body, sucks to be him. I don't define myself by the squishy meat puppet accessory.