A question for people who have read the Dragonlance series... [Archive]

pita

2009-11-29, 04:12 PM

The first trilogy is Chronicles. It starts with Dragons of Autumn Twilight, then Dragons of Winter Night, and then Dragons of Spring Dawning
The second trilogy is Legends. It starts with Time of the Twins, then War of the Twins, and then Test of the Twins, the absolute best Wizards released book I've ever read.
However, that's where Dragonlance ends, and nobody ever wrote books that completely destroyed the character of Raistlin or said that Sturm and Kitiara had a son, because that would be completely idiotic and nobody would ever do it.
EDIT- Although I rather liked Steel, so maybe you might want to try Dragons of Summer Flame when you're done with the Legends trilogy. And the third Weiss & Hickman trilogy is pretty good, even though my official stance is "it sucks and no true nerd would ever read it".
Don't go into these books expecting high quality fantasy, except for the later bits of the Legends trilogy. If you read them just for fun, they're quite a bit of fun.
Oh, and never, ever, EVER, read anything not written by Weiss and Hickman. Those two are the creators of Dragonlance, and everybody else who writes in it seems hell-bent on destroying it.

Jamin

2009-11-29, 04:28 PM

I like the 3rd Series about the same as the originals(Which is to say they are some of my favorite books ever) . But I will agree pita that anything not by Weiss and Hickman sucks.

raitalin

2009-11-29, 05:49 PM

Yep, stick to Weiss and Hickman:

1.Chronicles
2.Legends
3.Second Generation
4.Dragons of Summer Flame
5.War of Souls

That'll do.

I haven't read The Lost Chronicles, but I likely will now that I'm aware of their existence.

pita

2009-11-29, 11:37 PM

I absolutely loathed Second Generation.

Gaelbert

2009-11-30, 12:19 AM

As someone who owns over a hundred Dragonlance books... I completely agree. Read Weiss and Hickman only. You will miss nothing.

warty goblin

2009-11-30, 12:20 AM

Order is good, but not required. I started reading the War of Souls trilogy first, and it made sense, but having the previous trilogies definitely help.

I'd start with Chronicles, then go on to Legends. After that I'd read the Soulforge and Brothers in Arms, which are quite good and fill in some gaps. Then Dragons of Summer Flame. The Second Generation is honestly optional-I've never read it, and I figured the War of Souls fine. That coincidentally is the next stop. After that it's on to the Dark Disciple trilogy, which I actually quite like.

pita

2009-11-30, 06:06 AM

Cheesegear

2009-11-30, 06:26 AM

At some point, I heartily suggest you pick up The Minotaur Wars by Richard A. Knaak as well.

Probably my favourite set of DragonLance novels, including even the eleven ten (because Second Generation is terrible) by Weiss and Hickman.

pita

2009-11-30, 09:30 AM

I have actually heard good things about the Minotaur Wars, but I've always been panicked because:
A. I have never found a copy.
B. It's not Weiss and Hickman.
Also, a point you may want to know:
Wizards of the Coast fired Weiss and Hickman for being late with Dragons of the Hourglass Mage, so it's written by someone else and published under their name.

Kaiser Omnik

2009-11-30, 10:05 AM

I absolutely recommend the Raistlin Chronicles (2 books) after you've read the first two original trilogies.

As for books written by others than Weis and Hickman... I liked The Legend of Huma, although it differs somewhat from the legend told in Chronicles.

The J Pizzel

2009-11-30, 10:09 AM

Kaiser Omnik

2009-11-30, 10:12 AM

The Second Generation is actually before Dragons of Summer Flame. The reason it's so mindbogglingly horrifying is because Hickman and Weiss saw what other people did to their world, and tried fixing it.

Guys, can you at least try to be a little moderate? While I didn't like Second Generation that much, maybe the OP himself can judge if it's mindboggling horrifying or not?

You know, saying you didn't like all the books by others than Weis and Hickman is one thing...saying those books are all so horrible that one should never read them, is another. One is your opinion and the other is stated like it is a fact.

Mr. Scaly

2009-11-30, 11:00 AM

This. This humble post represents the vast knowledge that Pita has of all things Dragonlance. He is the Sage of Krynn. Heed his words, recite them, study them, for they are good and true.

I disagree. Does that me a Dragonlancist Reformist, or a Dragonlancist Orthodox? :smallwink:

The chronological order goes something like this:

Chronicles. (Soulforge and Brothers in Arms take place before these. Do read them. They're interesting character pieces.)

Legends.

Second Generation.

Dragons of Summer Flame + The Chaos War series.

Dragons of a New Age. (Never got around to reading these ones, but they're by Jean Rabe whose done some good work and some bad work.)

The War of Souls.

The Dark Disciple.

Some further interesting trilogies which fit in at different points in the general timeline are:

Kang's Regiment. My personal favourite books.

The Minotaur Wars trilogy. By Richard Knaak, second only to Weis and Hickman.

Dalamar the Dark. A nice character piece for Dalamar.

The Elven nations. Shows how Qualinesti and Silvanesti split apart in the first place.

The Taladas trilogy. I hear good things about it. Takes place on another whole continent.

The Ogre Titans. Also by Knaak.

The Lost Chronicles. Takes place during the original trilogy and fills in some of the gaps in the first novels. I recommend them highly.

Stonetellers. Another piece by Jean Rabe. It has issues, but I like them anyway because they're about goblins.

And of course it's worth it to take a look at the various anthologies. Heroes and Fools in particular has a good ratio of 'great' to 'bad' stories.

Mikeavelli

2009-11-30, 01:44 PM

Notes:

The Wizards Trilogy (The Night of the Eye, the Medusa Plague, and the Seventh Sentinal) isn't by Weis and Hickman, but is actually quite good.

The rest of the War of the Lance era stuff is hit or miss, as has already been explained in this thread.

Similarly, all the non-Weis and Hickman stuff post-Summer Flame is horrendous, it's best if you didn't even know that stuff existed.

Weis and Hickman went on to write the Death Gate Cycle, a 7-book long series that I think is actually better than their Dragonlance stuff.

pita

2009-11-30, 02:53 PM

This. This humble post represents the vast knowledge that Pita has of all things Dragonlance. He is the Sage of Krynn. Heed his words, recite them, study them, for they are good and true.

I think I'm going to sig this. I'm going to sig this.

Guys, can you at least try to be a little moderate? While I didn't like Second Generation that much, maybe the OP himself can judge if it's mindboggling horrifying or not?

You know, saying you didn't like all the books by others than Weis and Hickman is one thing...saying those books are all so horrible that one should never read them, is another. One is your opinion and the other is stated like it is a fact.
Here are the facts:
A. I claim I know something, therefore:
B. I am right.
It's simple logic. You should learn from my example.

Tyrant

2009-11-30, 04:52 PM

Also, a point you may want to know:
Wizards of the Coast fired Weiss and Hickman for being late with Dragons of the Hourglass Mage, so it's written by someone else and published under their name.
I would think this would be illegal. They were also pretty quick to sign the copy I have at GenCon, which I would think they wouldn't want any part of. They were also selling the book at their booth at GenCon. Basically, they seem pretty happy to take credit for it so I find it difficult to believe they didn't write it.

ghost_warlock

2009-11-30, 05:07 PM

re: those who say only read Weiss and Hickman; bull.

Several of the short stories collected in various books are rather good. For instance, the Dragons of Krynn is good and doesn't, for the most part, star any of the 'main' characters of the series.

Likewise, many of the stories in the Tales series were quite good. Heroes I & II were also enjoyable.

I found most of Richard A. Knaak's stuff to be entertaining and often humorous.

For the record, though, I hated Dragons of Summer Flame as well as virtually all of the Fifth Age/Second Generation glorified toliet paper.

Gaelbert

2009-11-30, 09:58 PM

Going through my collection again jolted my memory.

Read:
Rise of Solamnia Trilogy
Ergoth Trilogy
Kang's Regiment Trilogy

Emphasis on the Kang's Regiment and the Solamnia Trilogy. Those were excellent reads.

ninjalemur

2009-12-01, 01:00 AM

Weiss and Hickman are definitely the best, but I was a little dissapointed by the War of the Souls (I thought the super dragons were stupid). Knakk is number two, and the Minataur Wars and Ogre Titans are worth checking out. I also think that there are some gems hidden among the crap of the rest of the books, such as the book about Huma, the prequel book about Verminaard, the second book in the Elvin Nations, and several short stories. The best DL books are the Lost Chronicles. The short stories Wanna Bet, Colors of Belief, and the Silken Threads are also good, short reads.

UnChosenOne

2009-12-01, 01:46 AM

Personaly only Darconlance book-seeries that I've found worthy of reading are: Chronicles
Legends
Kang's Regiment
The War of Souls
The Lost Chronicles

I also you should try to get the Death Gate Cycle. As it's (like Mikeavelli said) better than their Draconlance stuff.

Cheesegear

2009-12-01, 05:57 AM

I like any book that does not contain Tanis or Raistlin. To that end, my favourite series are;

War of Souls. This was actually the first set of DL books that I ever read. And I loved it (and it's what got me hooked on DL in the first place, in the end).
If you're going to put dragons in your setting. Put Dragons in your setting. Don't give them half-arsed bit-parts. To this day, Solomirathnius (commonly known as 'Mirror' :smallwink:) and Razor remain two of my favourite characters from the setting. Oh, and Galdar. :smallamused:

Having mentioned a minotaur...The Minotaur Wars. One of the few series in DragonLance not written by Weiss & Hickman that is still worth reading (and in fact is better than some of the books that W&H have published). Unlike Salvatore and his Drow; Knaak takes his 'Monster Race' (in this case, Minotaurs and - later - Ogres) and he keeps them 'Monsters'.

And, of course, Ogre Titans. A follow-up to the Minotaur Wars. And, whilst Golgren might be un-ogrelike in many respects, he's still an ogre at heart. And it shows. I consider it a huge disappointment that Faros (from TMW) hasn't shown up to smack Golgren around yet.

Also, just because Tasslehoff Burrfoot might be your favourite character, that doesn't mean you should read Kendermore (Tas' 'prequel' story). EVER.
It is awful. Not least because it has Orcs...
...On Krynn...
...A place where Orcs don't exist...:smallannoyed:

Hallavast

2009-12-01, 06:24 AM

I like any book that does not contain Tanis or Raistlin. To that end, my favourite series are;

Having mentioned a minotaur...The Minotaur Wars. One of the few series in DragonLance not written by Weiss & Hickman that is still worth reading (and in fact is better than some of the books that W&H have published). Unlike Salvatore and his Drow; Knaak takes his 'Monster Race' (in this case, Minotaurs and - later - Ogres) and he keeps them 'Monsters'.

Eh? What do you mean "keeps them 'monsters'"? I couldn't help but compare the minotaur empire to that of ancient Rome all throughout the series. Knaak has actually been praised for the "human" appeal of his minotaurs, and he said that was one of his main objectives for the trilogy. I would actually qualify General Raam as an archetypical "everyman". If anything I would call the drow more monstrous than Knaak's minotaurs due to the absolutely malicious theme of their society.

Also, just because Tasslehoff Burrfoot might be your favourite character, that doesn't mean you should read Kendermore (Tas' 'prequel' story). EVER.
It is awful. Not least because it has Orcs...
...On Krynn...
...A place where Orcs don't exist...:smallannoyed:

I never read Kendermore, and I don't plan on it. Kender are a unique race that add flavor to Krynn's setting, but in my opinion, they should be just that; background characters. Tasslehoff was a nice comic relief in the first trilogy, and I mildly enjoyed his character growth in the War of Souls series.

However, kender (like gnomes) do NOT need to be major characters in every Dragonlance book. I rather enjoyed the break from them in the minotaur wars, but unfortunately, Weis and Hickman insist on remaking the same character over and over again and making them a hero's sidekick in every book (albeit each new kender or gnome usually has some character trait or novelty that gives a slightly altered spin on what would be exactly the same character). As I think about it more, I would probably list gully dwarves in this category as well.

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-01, 07:14 AM

And, of course, Ogre Titans. A follow-up to the Minotaur Wars. And, whilst Golgren might be un-ogrelike in many respects, he's still an ogre at heart. And it shows. I consider it a huge disappointment that Faros (from TMW) hasn't shown up for Golgren to smack around yet.

Fixed that for you. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not feeling a lot of love for the Chaos War. That's one of my favourite parts of the setting actually...gotta love those end of the world type scenarios. I've read five out of the six books and would recommend them all...even the one set in Mt. Nevermind shockingly dark.

Hallavast, I think that gnomes mostly show up in novellas. Apart from Gnosh and Gnimsh I can't recall any gnome sidekicks or comic relief in the main series.

Hallavast

2009-12-01, 07:30 AM

Hallavast, I think that gnomes mostly show up in novellas. Apart from Gnosh and Gnimsh I can't recall any gnome sidekicks or comic relief in the main series.

2 is quite enough. :smallannoyed:

pita

2009-12-01, 08:09 AM

I would think this would be illegal. They were also pretty quick to sign the copy I have at GenCon, which I would think they wouldn't want any part of. They were also selling the book at their booth at GenCon. Basically, they seem pretty happy to take credit for it so I find it difficult to believe they didn't write it.

That's a report I read quite a while ago. I don't know if it had been resolved.
A quick google search led me to this (http://www.enworld.org/forum/media-lounge/220612-wizards-coast-cancel-publication-dragonlance-dragons-hourglass-mage.html)

toasty

2009-12-01, 08:09 AM

I read the Minataur Wars Trilogy by Knaak, the 1st one was the best, the 2nd one was okay, and the third was a somewhat disappointng conclusion, but fun.

I also read some Knaak Dragonlance stuff, the Legend of Huma and Kaz the Minataur both I thought were very enjoyable.

Like people have said the Dragonlance books are not high brow literature. The original trilogy was actually the novelization of Weis and Hickman's playthrough of the original dragonlance campaign! But that being said, as far as cliched, fun, fantasy novels go I think Weis and Hickman do a very respectable job.

Besides Knaak and the Original Trilogy, I haven't branched out much though.

Cheesegear

2009-12-01, 08:12 AM

Fixed that for you. :smallbiggrin:

Maybe it's 'fixed'. However, I'd still like to see Faros show up in Ogre Titans, just so Golgren can smack Faros around (or vice versa :smallwink:) and give a 'the devil you know' speech. And if Golgren was removed from power, things would not end well for the Minotaurs.

As for 'Monsters being Monsters', I mean that Knaak didn't take Faros - a Sargas-worshiping minotaur - and turn him into a wuss. Faros is a minotaur, and, anyone who messes with him gets turned into a mushy red paste. As they should. That's what you get for messing with a servant of Sargas (rather than the comparatively less violent 'human' version; Sargonnas). And a minotaur no less.

Galdar (of the War of Souls) is also a minotaur. But, he's considerably less...Minotaur-y than those seen in The Minotaur Wars (following around a human...Pfft!). But, he does get to ride a dragon. One of my favourite dragons characters in fact. :smallbiggrin:

And Golgren; Although he doesn't like doing it. He does actually appear to be proficient in pulling off the 'Ogre Solution' (smash it's face in) to any given problem. Despite his apparent un-Ogre-ness, Golgren is an ogre. And anyone who says differently, doesn't say anything ever again.

Unlike Drizzt (and to a lesser extent Jarlaxle) who are hardly considered Drow at all, except for the fact that they are elves, and have blue/purple skin.

People like Drow because they're sadistic and borderline psychotic - and evil. Not because they wangst for eight pages straight. At least Salvatore tries to make Obould a convincing Orc.

As for Kender and Gnomes...I like all the gnomes in the setting.
Conundrum (by Jeff Crook), the book, about the gnome of the same name, is genuinely funny. Certainly, there's a slight difference in character between this Conundrum and the Conundrum in the War of Souls. But, they're by different authors. You can't expect it to be perfect. It's still a book about gnomes. And it's awesome.

As for Kender...No. They're awful. Tasslehoff Burrfoot (the original, that is) is the only one I like. I didn't much care for him in Legends (partly because I didn't like that series much at all...Stupid Raistlin).
Towards the end of Dragons of Summer Flame, Tas' inner monologue almost makes me cry. And I'm reading/checking it right now to make sure I'm right about it...I am. :smallfrown:
Tas in the War of Souls is vastly superior to any other kender. Ever.

I think in all 'original series' Tas does something amazing that actually makes him the real hero of the party. Like Sam in Lord of the Rings.

I also wish that the idea of the Everman was carried on more.

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-01, 11:16 AM

Hallavast, does it comfort you then that Gnosh faded into obscurity and that Gnimsh is very very dead? Hehe. I think that Jeff Grubb treats gnomes in just the right way so that you can enjoy their inherent goofiness yet take them seriously too. He's the gnome author, so to speak.

Maybe it's 'fixed'. However, I'd still like to see Faros show up in Ogre Titans, just so Golgren can smack Faros around (or vice versa :smallwink:) and give a 'the devil you know' speech. And if Golgren was removed from power, things would not end well for the Minotaurs.

Whole heartedly agreed with...those two are like Batman and the Joker. Sort of. Well, they hate each other enough for it. :smallbiggrin: And true...if the Titans or anybody else takes control over the ogres then all out war is on the horizon. And the minotaurs don't have mages.

Lots of stuff that I agree with...

Here here. The trick to making good books about the 'monster' races is showing them just being their monstrous selves but making it so the reader can understand why they're monstrous.

monomer

2009-12-01, 01:15 PM

Chronicles and Legends are definitely the best.

As other people mentioned, there are some decent books to be found in the rest, but they are few and far between. People have already mentioned the Legend of Huma, which I remember as being pretty decent, though the rest of the Heroes series was pretty poor. I think the Elven Nations trilogy was pretty good too.

The one series that stands out in my mind as being particularly bad is Preludes, which takes place in the 5 years prior to the star of chronicles. Darkness and Light was about how Kitiara and Sturm hitch a ride to the moon with a bunch of Gnomes. It is surprisingly even more terrible than it sounds. Amazingly, The Brothers Majere found a way to lower the bar even further.

I never did get to the second generation, or anything following those books, but I remember not-hating the stories about Caramon and Tika's sons, which were brought over from the Tales trilogy of short stories.

Tyrant

2009-12-01, 02:09 PM

That's a report I read quite a while ago. I don't know if it had been resolved.
A quick google search led me to this (http://www.enworld.org/forum/media-lounge/220612-wizards-coast-cancel-publication-dragonlance-dragons-hourglass-mage.html)
This (http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Press/?doc=20080721) came out a few months after the chat died on your link. I found the link to that on the Dragonlance Homepage (http://www.dragonlance.com/) which leads me to believe it isn't PR BS. And to clarify my earlier statements, the book came out just before GenCon this year (August of this year).

There was an issue with it where WotC cancelled it. The authors missed an apparently important deadline. Both sides said this, along with whatever spin you want to read into it. Eventually, they came to an agreement and worked things out. This pushed the release from July of last year to August of this year. That, along with everything else, leads me to believe they are in fact the authors of the book.

Edit to add: As for the topic, the only books I have read have been by either Weis and Hickman or at least Weis. I liked all of them, however I thought Legends was the best of the lot by far. I have considered the Minotaur Wars and a few other odds and ends.

pita

2009-12-02, 03:01 AM

It appears I was mistaken.
My shame floods me like a floody thing.

Solaris

2009-12-02, 03:11 AM

Like people have said the Dragonlance books are not high brow literature. The original trilogy was actually the novelization of Weis and Hickman's playthrough of the original dragonlance campaign! But that being said, as far as cliched, fun, fantasy novels go I think Weis and Hickman do a very respectable job.

Not exactly. They had to follow along with the modules until about the end of Autumn Twilight or the middle of Winter Night, I forget which, but their play differed vastly in many respects from the story. I picked this data up from the annotated version of the Dragonlance Chronicles.

Personally, I only liked the Chronicles and Kang's Regiment trilogies.

Tyrant

2009-12-02, 01:51 PM

It appears I was mistaken.
My shame floods me like a floody thing.
Don't feel bad. I was honestly wondering if I had somehow missed something and wondering if perhaps you were right.

Not exactly. They had to follow along with the modules until about the end of Autumn Twilight or the middle of Winter Night, I forget which, but their play differed vastly in many respects from the story. I picked this data up from the annotated version of the Dragonlance Chronicles.
I think the writing improved after that point as well. I think I remember in the notes that it mentioned in the playthrough that Riverwind was killed by the dragon in Xak Tsaroth. It's been a while since I read that though so I could be mistaken.

BatRobin

2009-12-02, 05:58 PM

So, just to clarify, which are the real/original ones and what order should I read them in again?

Kaiser Omnik

2009-12-02, 06:03 PM

So, just to clarify, which are the real/original ones and what order should I read them in again?

Read the Chronicles trilogy, see if you like them. If so, read the Legends trilogy. Then, if you want to follow the timeline of Weis and Hickman's books, read Dragons of Summer Flame and the War of Souls trilogy. Then again, at that point, you'll probably be familiar enough with the setting to decide which other Dragonlance books you may like.

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-02, 08:52 PM

I think the writing improved after that point as well. I think I remember in the notes that it mentioned in the playthrough that Riverwind was killed by the dragon in Xak Tsaroth. It's been a while since I read that though so I could be mistaken.

In their defence, he was really badly injured by the dragon to the point where, as a child, I was appalled by the detail they put in.

warty goblin

2009-12-02, 09:08 PM

In their defence, he was really badly injured by the dragon to the point where, as a child, I was appalled by the detail they put in.
Yeah, the whole initial dragon attack was perhaps needlessly slowed by some leading exposition, but after that was freaking terrifying.

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-03, 12:01 PM

Yeah, the whole initial dragon attack was perhaps needlessly slowed by some leading exposition, but after that was freaking terrifying.

Yep yep. Over the whole first couple trilogies I'd say that Cyan Bloodbane was probably the most effectively frightening dragon that made an appearance, but in the first book good old Onyx took the cake.

starwoof

2009-12-03, 12:11 PM

Conundrum is a book about gnomes that build a submarine and attempt to discover why continents float. Its funny. Read it!

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-03, 01:55 PM

I've always thought that the best gnome stories are written by Jeff Grubb.

Tyrant

2009-12-03, 03:03 PM

In their defence, he was really badly injured by the dragon to the point where, as a child, I was appalled by the detail they put in.
Yeah it was a little detailed. Then again, fighting a four legged acid spout probably shouldn't end well for some members of a (likely overmatched) party.

Solaris

2009-12-03, 07:00 PM

Don't feel bad. I was honestly wondering if I had somehow missed something and wondering if perhaps you were right.

I think the writing improved after that point as well. I think I remember in the notes that it mentioned in the playthrough that Riverwind was killed by the dragon in Xak Tsaroth. It's been a while since I read that though so I could be mistaken.

Tanis. When they were lowering him down into the well and he took a swing at it with the Blue Crystal Staff. It... didn't end well for the half-elf.

onthetown

2009-12-03, 08:46 PM

I've read all the Weis/Hickman ones that "follow the storyline" set out from Chronicles. When I read them, I generally go:

Raistlin Chronicles
Chronicles
Lost Chronicles
Legends
Second Generation
Summer Flame
War of Souls
Dark Disciple

I'm looking to read the trilogy with Night of the Eye... anybody know if that's still in print, or will I have to go to the used bookstore?

Edit: Ah, I've read some of the Anvil of Time. It's okay, too.
Double Edit: And I guess The Dark Disciple trilogy is just Weis, not including Hickman. :smalltongue: Oops.

warty goblin

2009-12-03, 09:05 PM

Tanis. When they were lowering him down into the well and he took a swing at it with the Blue Crystal Staff. It... didn't end well for the half-elf.

Although hitting a dragon with a magical staff while dangling down a well may be among the more awesome ways to die. Certainly more awesome than the way Tanis actually died.

Although honestly I like the way Tanis died. It was an excellent subversion of audience expectations. I mean big desperate battle at the scene of a past big desperate battle, where Tanis' friend died in the climatic showdown? Yeah, getting stabbed in the back by a random dude wasn't what I saw coming either.

Tar Palantir

2009-12-03, 11:07 PM

I recommend Chronicles first, but other than that, I can't even begin to sort it out.

Tyrant

2009-12-04, 01:11 AM

Tanis. When they were lowering him down into the well and he took a swing at it with the Blue Crystal Staff. It... didn't end well for the half-elf.
Maybe it has been too long since I read that.

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-04, 01:29 AM

Although hitting a dragon with a magical staff while dangling down a well may be among the more awesome ways to die. Certainly more awesome than the way Tanis actually died.

Although honestly I like the way Tanis died. It was an excellent subversion of audience expectations. I mean big desperate battle at the scene of a past big desperate battle, where Tanis' friend died in the climatic showdown? Yeah, getting stabbed in the back by a random dude wasn't what I saw coming either.

YES! Yes, oh God yes... People can say what they will about it, but Weis and Hickman can write some damn fine death scenes. Even when it's not super dramatic and awesome like facing down a dragon it's moving. I still cry when i read how Flint died. Spoilers in invisi text.

Question. I have the original chronicles in paperback...would you say that getting the annotated chronicles is worth it?

ninjalemur

2009-12-04, 01:46 AM

All of you who are talking about wanting to see a Faros/Golgren showdown.... have you read the newest Ogre Titans book? Just got it yesterday and it's pretty good.

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-04, 01:50 AM

All of you who are talking about wanting to see a Faros/Golgren showdown.... have you read the newest Ogre Titans book? Just got it yesterday and it's pretty good.

It's out?! Gah! And it's too close for Christmas for me to go around buying it for myself...

Solaris

2009-12-04, 11:54 AM

YES! Yes, oh God yes... People can say what they will about it, but Weis and Hickman can write some damn fine death scenes. Even when it's not super dramatic and awesome like facing down a dragon it's moving. I still cry when i read how Flint died. Spoilers in invisi text.

Question. I have the original chronicles in paperback...would you say that getting the annotated chronicles is worth it?

That depends on how much of a fan you are. I like 'em, but I wouldn't shell out thirty bucks for the hardcover if I already had the trilogy on paperback.

Juhn

2009-12-04, 06:24 PM

...Am I the only one who thought the Kingpriest Trilogy was good? I liked finding out how things originally went down.

warty goblin

2009-12-04, 06:37 PM

That depends on how much of a fan you are. I like 'em, but I wouldn't shell out thirty bucks for the hardcover if I already had the trilogy on paperback.

The Annotated Chronicles at least are available in paperback now, I'm fairly sure Legends are as well. Although they may not be ideal for a first read through, as the annotations can be a bit spoileriffic.

tribble

2009-12-04, 06:48 PM

I'd recommend the dragons of autumn whatever it is to dragons of spring dawning trilogy and the short stories.

Drakyn

2009-12-04, 09:43 PM

...Am I the only one who thought the Kingpriest Trilogy was good? I liked finding out how things originally went down.

I can't speak on writing quality (I read the books, but this was about five+ years before I developed the ability to criticize anything I read, which still is fairly pathetic today), but I was always rather disappointed that despite all the fleshing-out it still didn't do anything to make the cataclysm less loony. It was interesting seeing it all laid out and set up, yeah.

Tyrant

2009-12-04, 10:09 PM

The Annotated Chronicles at least are available in paperback now, I'm fairly sure Legends are as well. Although they may not be ideal for a first read through, as the annotations can be a bit spoileriffic.

They're both available in paperback. They're the ones I read actually. I had a pretty good idea of the outline of the story before I ever read it, but those notes are pretty spoiler laden (and it's near impossible to not read them). I think my personal favorite was in Legends where it mentions Crysania going blind very early on in the notes even though it doesn't happen until very near the end of the book
Nothing like throwing out plot points from near the end of the story. Then again, I think Chronicles at least warned about that in the preface somewhere. Oh well, I still really enjoyed Legends.

Mr. Scaly

2009-12-05, 12:50 AM

They're both available in paperback. They're the ones I read actually. I had a pretty good idea of the outline of the story before I ever read it, but those notes are pretty spoiler laden (and it's near impossible to not read them). I think my personal favorite was in Legends where it mentions Crysania going blind very early on in the notes even though it doesn't happen until very near the end of the book
Nothing like throwing out plot points from near the end of the story. Then again, I think Chronicles at least warned about that in the preface somewhere. Oh well, I still really enjoyed Legends.

Whoa. Those really are pretty big spoilers.

Hmm. Luckily I've read them many times.

Lupy

2009-12-05, 10:42 PM

Read Chronicles and Legends. After that, read what you will, but know that the War of Souls never happened. Also, only Weis and Hickman may write books with Raistlin in them.

Gaelbert

2009-12-06, 02:26 AM

...Am I the only one who thought the Kingpriest Trilogy was good? I liked finding out how things originally went down.

I thought it was a good one. Not necessarily a must read, but far better than most trilogies out there.

bosssmiley

2009-12-07, 09:48 AM

Yep, stick to Weiss and Hickman:

1.Chronicles
2.Legends
3.Second Generation
4.Dragons of Summer Flame
5.War of Souls

That'll do.

Dragonlance is the cancer that killed old-school Leiber/Pratt-derived D&D and replaced it with the heavily brandified Shannara/Eddings-verses that Paizo, Kenzerco and WOTC have pushed on us. It is also the setting that gave the world Aspie-Gnomes, Kender and Gully Dwarves.

Read it as a cautionary lesson and a big fat "how not to..." guide.

Kaiser Omnik

2009-12-07, 10:13 AM

onthetown

2009-12-07, 10:36 AM

Dragonlance is the cancer that killed old-school Leiber/Pratt-derived D&D and replaced it with the heavily brandified Shannara/Eddings-verses that Paizo, Kenzerco and WOTC have pushed on us. It is also the setting that gave the world Aspie-Gnomes, Kender and Gully Dwarves.

Read it as a cautionary lesson and a big fat "how not to..." guide.

I love Dragonlance. It's my favourite book series, and I happen to love having D&D campaigns in the setting as well.

It's all a matter of opinion, really...

BatRobin

2009-12-07, 07:50 PM

The fact that a lot of people like Dragonlance will hopefully convince the OP that this is untrue.

(I agree with this statement.)

:smallbiggrin:

I asked for the Chronicles Series (Dragons of Autumn Twlight and Winter Night and Spring Jump ro whatever) for Christmas. :cool:

mallorean_thug

2009-12-07, 09:52 PM

If you are to read Dragonlance, start with the Weis and Hickman books in the order already delineated by the rest of the board posting in this thread. While I would say that anything Dragonlance not by Weis and Hickman is horrible, this is only from personal experience which mostly consisted of grabbing random other Dragonlance books off of the shelf of the library. Not being able to recall if or which of the other books I did read, I can only say to follow the advice of my fellow posters rather than to discard several shelves worth of books immediately.

When I read the books, I enjoyed them. They came at a time when I appreciated having a large number of fantasy books available to tear through, and they introduced me to D&D style fantasy settings. However, don't read them expecting the best the fantasy genre has to offer. It is clearly D&D setting pulp. As it would be off topic in this thread, pm me if you want to know what I feel is the best the fantasy genre has to offer. Out of Dragonlance on the other hand, I feel the Legends trilogy is the best overall for a variety of reasons, most of them involving the character of Raistlin.

Solaris

2009-12-07, 10:34 PM

Dragonlance is the cancer that killed old-school Leiber/Pratt-derived D&D and replaced it with the heavily brandified Shannara/Eddings-verses that Paizo, Kenzerco and WOTC have pushed on us. It is also the setting that gave the world Aspie-Gnomes, Kender and Gully Dwarves.

Read it as a cautionary lesson and a big fat "how not to..." guide.

... Because other people liked it more than the kind you liked, and therefore it is Bad? It's okay to like one style, but other people like different styles. That's why D&D is good, because we can all like our own little styles of settings and we don't have to all like the same ones. Honestly, man, I don't see the point in saying what you said.

Ridureyu

2009-12-10, 09:06 PM

... Because other people liked it more than the kind you liked, and therefore it is Bad? It's okay to like one style, but other people like different styles. That's why D&D is good, because we can all like our own little styles of settings and we don't have to all like the same ones. Honestly, man, I don't see the point in saying what you said.

I really hope we don't get into any kind of setting wars, and "my personal preference is better than your personal preference." Does nobody remember how much death and destruction was caused by people liking Eberron?

BatRobin

2009-12-27, 11:24 AM

Thanks to all of you guys, I got the Chronicles Trilogy for Christmas and love the first book. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Foeofthelance

2009-12-27, 11:23 PM

What's the third book in the Kang's Regiment trilogy?

Viera Champion

2009-12-28, 08:22 AM

Ok so I have read the childrens version of the Chronicles now I'm going to read the original three Chronicle books. So I went to borders to get them and what I didn't notice till I got home was that I had only paid attention to the numbers on the books instead of the title or series. So I ended up with Book 1 of the Chronicles (Which I did want), Book 2 of the Lost Chronicles, and Book 3 of War of Souls (Which I have book 1 of but I still dont want to read it yet).

pita

2009-12-28, 12:20 PM

Drakyn

2009-12-28, 01:02 PM

What's the third book in the Kang's Regiment trilogy?

There's a few short stories sprinkled before Doom Patrol and Draconian Measures and between them (the original origin of the bunch), but I'm not even sure there is a third one. Anyone else know the answer to this?

Solaris

2009-12-29, 05:24 AM

There's a few short stories sprinkled before Doom Patrol and Draconian Measures and between them (the original origin of the bunch), but I'm not even sure there is a third one. Anyone else know the answer to this?

There isn't, apparently.

Blas_de_Lezo

2009-12-29, 07:51 AM

Chronicles of the Dragonlance.

Legends of the Dragonlance.

All the others are garbage, you just can skip them.

Mr. Scaly

2010-01-03, 12:57 AM

Speaking of Kang's Regiment, any thoughts on how a third book might have been written? The existing two complimented each other so well, I'm kind of at a loss on how the story would end.

Lupy

2010-01-03, 02:12 PM

Chronicles of the Dragonlance.

Legends of the Dragonlance.

All the others are garbage, you just can skip them.

This man speaks the truth. The War of Souls never happened, avoid it like the Zombie-invaders.

Drakyn

2010-01-03, 02:25 PM

Speaking of Kang's Regiment, any thoughts on how a third book might have been written? The existing two complimented each other so well, I'm kind of at a loss on how the story would end.

You're right, I'm not sure. I've no doubt there's bits of short story material scattered about the draconians setting up their city, but another novel seems like it would need some sort of real conflict to keep going, and lord knows they earned a nice break after what they went through. They could set one in the "present day" or whatever time it is currently, but that'd be more like the start of something new than the continuation of their previous story. It was all about finding a home and a future, and honestly, throwing another major obstacle for them to scramble over after the second book would strain belief a little.

Cheesegear

2010-01-03, 04:47 PM

This man speaks the truth. The War of Souls never happened, avoid it like the Zombie-invaders.

It all depends on how much you want to know about the setting.

IMHO The War of Souls is the best of the real set. It was also about 'fixing' everything that was wrong with the DragonLance setting at the time. War of Souls made DL better. Not worse.

First, no Tanis and no Raistlin. Awesome. Girard and Galdar are actually two well-written character who don't have a cry about how hard everything is every ten minutes (I'm looking at you, Tanis), and just do what they set out to do.

It also has a bunch of scenes with Dragons kicking the crap out of...A lot of things. And Mirror and Razor (another two of my favourite characters from the entire setting of DragonLance) teaming up together to go on wacky adventures and having some very heartwarming moments. A Chromatic and a Metallic...Who'd a thunk it? And Tas - as always - 'doing what he's got to do.' Tas is a lot less...Kender...In WoS. I liked the change.

...And, finally, Takhisis gets what's coming to her because the Gods stop pussing around the issue.

The Dark Disciple (otherwise known as 'Amber and X') trilogy is also worth reading as it's by Weis herself. Also, it has Gods running around causing havoc.

Thoughts and reviews on the Elven Exiles is mixed.

As has been mentioned; Richard A. Knaak and Jeff Grub are the only two authors you should be reading if not reading Weis & Hickman books...Everything else just...Depends on what you like. If you hate elves, don't be reading Elven Exiles. If you hated War of Souls (which I didn't, not by a long shot), you wont like Dark Disciple.

Mr. Scaly

2010-01-04, 01:09 AM

It all depends on how much you want to know about the setting.

IMHO The War of Souls is the best of the real set. It was also about 'fixing' everything that was wrong with the DragonLance setting at the time. War of Souls made DL better. Not worse.

I don't really get the hate for the War of Souls personally. I hear accusations that it's a giant retcon but really, if you read the material that comes after then the term Age of Mortals still makes sense, and probably more so than before.

First, no Tanis and no Raistlin. Awesome. Girard and Galdar are actually two well-written character who don't have a cry about how hard everything is every ten minutes (I'm looking at you, Tanis), and just do what they set out to do.

Actually that reminds me of a talk me and my sister were having about characters angsting about how hard life is. We agreed that Tanis goes overboard while Raistlin has the right amount of angst, because whereas the former is always miserable about his problems all the time the latter converts it into constructive emotions like homicidal rage. :smallwink:

...And, finally, Takhisis gets what's coming to her because the Gods stop pussing around the issue.

Man, I really did not see that scene coming. That climax had to be one of the most memorable I've ever read.

The Dark Disciple (otherwise known as 'Amber and X') trilogy is also worth reading as it's by Weis herself. Also, it has Gods running around causing havoc.

Agreed. The way Krynn's pantheon interacts these days rivals Zeus and his family for stability and family togetherness. We actually get to see some of the less often visited gods too. Plus Rhys Mason rivals Faros and Golgren for the bad ass normal crown and Nightshade is the best kender in Dragonlance.

Thoughts and reviews on the Elven Exiles is mixed.

I read the first one...as far as I'm concerned the elves are still wandering the desert being killed off by raiders and minotaurs. They never reached Khur and the tangled mess of a plot they find there. When I want to read about elves I'll just reread 'The Puppet King' or maybe the Kinslayer Wars.

You're right, I'm not sure. I've no doubt there's bits of short story material scattered about the draconians setting up their city, but another novel seems like it would need some sort of real conflict to keep going, and lord knows they earned a nice break after what they went through. They could set one in the "present day" or whatever time it is currently, but that'd be more like the start of something new than the continuation of their previous story. It was all about finding a home and a future, and honestly, throwing another major obstacle for them to scramble over after the second book would strain belief a little.

I guess it must be hard to come up with a credible threat after fighting for your race's very survival time and time again. I can't see how Weis would have been able to top herself for another book. The most recent I've heard from Kang's people was a brief scene in Amber and Ashes...apparently they've been accepted enough by the world that two draconians can walk through Solace without molestation.

Cheesegear

2010-01-04, 07:09 AM

I don't really get the hate for the War of Souls personally. I hear accusations that it's a giant retcon but really, if you read the material that comes after then the term Age of Mortals still makes sense, and probably more so than before.

It was a massive retcon because...Seriously, the world was going to crap after Dragonlance: Legends. Different authors were screwing with Krynn. And it had to be fixed. Seriously, they killed off Goldmoon. That wasn't right.

War of Souls was also supposed to kick off the new edition.

We agreed that Tanis goes overboard while Raistlin has the right amount of angst, because whereas the former is always miserable about his problems all the time the latter converts it into constructive emotions like homicidal rage.

Correction, Faros has the right amount of angst. And turns it into balls-to-the-wall awesome.

Plus Rhys Mason rivals Faros and Golgren for the bad ass normal crown and Nightshade is the best kender in Dragonlance.

Faros and Golgren are not normals. Faros is just awesome. Golgren is...Well, also awesome.

I think Tas remains the best kender in Dragonlance (the novel Kendermore never happened). For his ability to make me cry near the end of the Chaos War. And the fact that Tas is actually the one who consistently saves the day when everything turns to crap. Tas in War of Souls...Best. Kender. Ever.

Nightshade is good though. Of course.

Mr. Scaly

2010-01-04, 02:35 PM

It was a massive retcon because...Seriously, the world was going to crap after Dragonlance: Legends. Different authors were screwing with Krynn. And it had to be fixed. Seriously, they killed off Goldmoon. That wasn't right.

War of Souls was also supposed to kick off the new edition.

It didn't get THAT bad after Legends. I only started getting confused when the dragon overlords were brought into the thick of things, and I'd probably have cut that trilogy more slack if I'd read all three instead of the middle book. Maybe...that was a pretty weird trilogy though.

And fair enough, that makes some sense.

Correction, Faros has the right amount of angst. And turns it into balls-to-the-wall awesome.

I stand corrected and wonder why he never occurred to me int he first place.

Faros and Golgren are not normals. Faros is just awesome. Golgren is...Well, also awesome.

I'll consider it a three way tie then since I can't think of anyone else who even approaches their level.

I think Tas remains the best kender in Dragonlance (the novel Kendermore never happened). For his ability to make me cry near the end of the Chaos War. And the fact that Tas is actually the one who consistently saves the day when everything turns to crap. Tas in War of Souls...Best. Kender. Ever.

Nightshade is good though. Of course.

Tas...weaves in and out of good character status for me. Sometimes he's too 'perfect,' and able to do anything and everything while making the others look like hopeless morons. Thanks to the Lost Chronicles I can now pinpoint the exact moment when Tas turns from an insufferable **** to a potentially likeable character (page 544, paperback edition of Dragons of the Highlord Skies) but he has relapses at times. It's been a while since I read the War of Souls series...I may have to do that again.