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Brendan
2009-11-29, 06:29 PM
say someone is a rogue 12 or so and a shadowdancer 1, and has enough ranks to survive a hide with a minus 20 for charging or combat, can they hide in plain sight during their attacks on the enemy?
Or to put it simply, can you hide from someone you are trying to kill, while they are trying to kill you?

Lord Thurlvin
2009-11-29, 07:35 PM
Yeah, but even with shadow armor the -20 brings the spot check down to something that most enemies can actually make with good luck. It gets even better when the rogue has spring attack.

Human Paragon 3
2009-11-29, 07:37 PM
Throw in Dread Comando. You gain the ability to hide while moving at no penalty and run or charge with just a -10 to hide. Dodge and Mobility are prereqs, but if you want spring attack anyway, might be just the thing.

Kelb_Panthera
2009-11-29, 07:37 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, as long as your shadow dancer remains in the shadows for the entire duration of the encounter he can remain hidden from sight for the entire encounter regardless of what actions he takes as long as he makes the appropriate hide checks.

Levithix
2009-11-29, 07:50 PM
Your biggest problem (assuming you can make the hide checks) is that, unless I'm missing something, you would still need to use all your move actions to hide.

Lord Thurlvin
2009-11-29, 08:02 PM
Your biggest problem (assuming you can make the hide checks) is that, unless I'm missing something, you would still need to use all your move actions to hide.

You only use a move action to hide immediately after a ranged attack, according to 3.5. Moving more than half speed adds another -5 penalty, though.

Curmudgeon
2009-11-30, 10:37 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, as long as your shadow dancer remains in the shadows for the entire duration of the encounter he can remain hidden from sight for the entire encounter regardless of what actions he takes as long as he makes the appropriate hide checks.
You are mistaken in this case.
A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow. The Shadowdancer doesn't need to hide in shadows; the shadows just have to be within 10'. That's why this ability is Supernatural (i.e., magic). Unless you throw in an Antimagic Field, the Shadowdancer can hide 10' away from the shadow of a blade of grass. Nifty, huh?

Your biggest problem (assuming you can make the hide checks) is that, unless I'm missing something, you would still need to use all your move actions to hide. Nope.
Action: Usually none. Except in the special case of the Sniping rules, Hide doesn't require its own action. And you can Hide while attacking:
Itís practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging. No, the real problem, as Lord Thurlvin mentioned, is that if you fail your Hide check while you're making a full attack right in someone's face you're in for a world of hurt.

Completely legal maneuver. Completely risky legal maneuver.