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View Full Version : Can You Use Permancy On Gentle Repose? (3.5)



FerhagoRosewood
2009-11-30, 07:52 PM
...Welp asked the whole question in the title.

Anyways, can you?

Assassin89
2009-11-30, 07:55 PM
I would say no, as Gentle Repose is not on the list of spells that can be used on objects or another creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm).

Saintheart
2009-11-30, 07:57 PM
Rather a pity, too, since it'd be a nice touch to add to cathedrals filled with fallen heroes of a particular god -- the faithful keep the body preserved as a constant reminder of their gratitude, or respect, or something...

Arakune
2009-11-30, 07:58 PM
Rather a pity, too, since it'd be a nice touch to add to cathedrals filled with fallen heroes of a particular god -- the faithful keep the body preserved as a constant reminder of their gratitude, or respect, or something...

Ring of gentle ripose. Also, a mean of immortality with clone.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-11-30, 08:02 PM
Bummer.

It would have worked for a storyline reason for the game I'm DMing.

Tiki Snakes
2009-11-30, 08:04 PM
Gentle Repose can be permenancied, actually.

If you are the DM. Or if the DM says so.
(Can't really see it breaking anything. Plus it makes plenty of sense.)

Dusk Eclipse
2009-11-30, 08:04 PM
Remember, As a DM you can do

Edit: I hate ninjas

FerhagoRosewood
2009-11-30, 08:04 PM
Gentle Repose can be permenancied, actually.

If you are the DM. Or if the DM says so.
(Can't really see it breaking anything. Plus it makes plenty of sense.)

Well I would be the DM...

sambo.
2009-11-30, 08:07 PM
It would have worked for a storyline reason for the game I'm DMing.

there you go then.

Permanency CAN be used on Gentle Repose by the plot-hook in YOUR campaign.

you are the DM, you have the power!

FerhagoRosewood
2009-11-30, 08:10 PM
there you go then.

Permanency CAN be used on Gentle Repose by the plot-hook in YOUR campaign.

you are the DM, you have the power!

Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

Zeta Kai
2009-11-30, 08:13 PM
Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

You'll get over that, eventually. It passes with time. :smallwink:

Tiki Snakes
2009-11-30, 08:13 PM
Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

Well, it's not like it's ruled out by name. If anyone asks, let the same ruling count for PC's, too. That way, it's not so much 'by the power of plot' as much as it is just your official interpretation.

Saintheart
2009-11-30, 08:14 PM
Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

http://www.jeromestokesministry.com/i//you-can-do-it.jpg

:smallbiggrin:

FerhagoRosewood
2009-11-30, 08:16 PM
O.O;

Alright then... My next question would be what would the minimum caster level be?

Ponce
2009-11-30, 08:21 PM
O.O;

Alright then... My next question would be what would the minimum caster level be?

Probably low, in line with similar-level spells...

Put it this way, if a player asked you to permanency Gentle Repose, would you let him?

Saintheart
2009-11-30, 08:23 PM
O.O;

Alright then... My next question would be what would the minimum caster level be?

At the risk of ninja'ing, I would've thought 11th level, since Gentle Repose is a 3rd-level spell, and other 3rd-level spells under Permanency attract a minimum CL 11 requirement...? :smalleek:

Assassin89
2009-11-30, 08:24 PM
O.O;

Alright then... My next question would be what would the minimum caster level be?

I would say level 11, as Gentle Repose is a third level spell on the wizard/sorcerer list, and other third level spells follow this rule.

Edit: someone's risk of ninjaing was fulfilled.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-11-30, 08:25 PM
Probably low, in line with similar-level spells...

Put it this way, if a player asked you to permanency Gentle Repose, would you let him?

Well considering the lack of revive spells in my game (it's very limited), yeah.

FinalJustice
2009-11-30, 08:53 PM
Create a use-activated item of Gentle Repose? Not exactly rules per se, but in the 'guidelines'.

ericgrau
2009-11-30, 09:12 PM
You can keep re-casting it so a DM can have his plot point. A long fallen hero is waiting for the time of evil before he comes back to life, kept reposed and guarded by a small group of faithful clerics.

Ravens_cry
2009-11-30, 09:44 PM
You can keep re-casting it so a DM can have his plot point. A long fallen hero is waiting for the time of evil before he comes back to life, kept reposed and guarded by a small group of faithful clerics.
Then a small bad slays the guards, steals the body and turns it into an undead under his control. Meanwhile, the Big Bad, who the fallen hero was meant to protect against, arises anew to trouble the world anon.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-11-30, 09:49 PM
Then a small bad slays the guards, steals the body and turns it into an undead under his control. Meanwhile, the Big Bad, who the fallen hero was meant to protect against, arises anew to trouble the world anon.

While this sounds like the making of a great plot point, the use of Gentle Repose in my game is more for a body that will be almost forgotten.

Haven
2009-11-30, 10:07 PM
Since resurrection is really limited, I don't think there would be a balance problem with changing the spell's duration to permanent in your campaign (aside from possibly putting taxidermists out of business, I guess), or allowing a custom researched version with a permanent duration that's a level higher.

Mewtarthio
2009-11-30, 11:48 PM
Isn't there a certain third-party supplement that has a tunic of gentle repose which lasts indefinitely (as well as allowing undead to retain certain... miscellaneous functions)?

Platinum_Mongoose
2009-11-30, 11:51 PM
Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

Just play to the rule of "Because it's cool!" :D

It really is an awesome visual concept that Saintheart set forward, the hall of fallen heroes. I may steal if I ever run DnD again.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-01, 01:04 AM
Just play to the rule of "Because it's cool!" :D

It really is an awesome visual concept that Saintheart set forward, the hall of fallen heroes. I may steal if I ever run DnD again.

Yeah I gotta say I like the concept as well.

Callista
2009-12-01, 02:10 AM
But then, what would you do if your particular fallen hero had gotten himself fried crispy by dragon breath, or been relieved of his brains by zombies, or died in some other particularly messy manner?

Hmm, come to think of it, is it possible to cast spells like Mending on a corpse? Technically, it IS an object... If so, that'd make the mortician's life a lot easier.

Tackyhillbillu
2009-12-01, 03:08 AM
you are the DM, you have the power!

BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEsHUel04dY)

hamishspence
2009-12-01, 03:49 AM
there is a Robe of Gentle Repose in the City of the Spider Queen adventure.

I'd say it is within the DM's discretion to allow permanancy to work on spells not on the list- a room of Gentle Repose would make a good equivalent of a freezer or stasis field.

Zaq
2009-12-01, 04:29 AM
Forget Gentle Repose. Store it in a vat of Quintessence! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm)

Asheram
2009-12-01, 06:47 AM
Time to pick up "stonghold builders guide"

Pantry of Preservation; You build this into a stronghold space, (Or a church) and nothing will spoil inside it. Any corpse taken out as fresh as they're brought in. (effectively an AoE Gentle Repose)
Also called a Morgue of Preservation.

Page 80 of Stronghold Builders Guidebook.

Also quite cheap for what it offers.

Edit; Note that the name is just a name for the effect, there's no physical change in the room

JeenLeen
2009-12-01, 09:45 AM
IIRC, Permancy does say that others spells can be 'permanenced' by DM discretion, so it's still following the rules.

If resurrection is rare in your game and you don't want it to be common to keep someone in 'Raise Dead'-level preservation, I do recommend going with what was said above and have it be a custom-researched spell. I could see a level 5 or 6 spell being a permanent version of Gentle Repose, maybe a corollary that it doesn't work on undead if you want to prevent potential abuse of PCs making and hiding undead.
(The PCs could still find a scroll or spellbook with the custom spell if you want them to be able to use it for plot reasons.)

Cyclocone
2009-12-01, 09:53 AM
If you just need to store some dude for a really long time just use Temporal Stasis.

Wulfram
2009-12-01, 10:01 AM
The duration is already very long, so I can't see that making it permanent would be too much of a problem - if anything it's too expensive, since you're paying XP for an effect that you could get anyway by using a 2nd level spell about once a week.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-01, 10:03 AM
Glass case full of nitrogen or some other inert gas.

What?

PurinaDragonCho
2009-12-01, 10:17 AM
Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

One thing I never liked about 3.x was the fact that players got access to everything - there was an assumption that if it could be done, the players could do it. In a way, it was like pulling back the curtain and seeing Oz. I see no problem with there being things in the world that the players don't know how to do, so long as it isn't abusive. And I see very little potential for abuse in allowing an NPC to permanency gentle repose, but not allowing the players to do it.

Teddy
2009-12-01, 10:46 AM
IIRC, Permancy does say that others spells can be 'permanenced' by DM discretion, so it's still following the rules.

Jup, it does (in the PHB, SRD seems to have ignored it). Players can research new applications of permanency in the same way as researching new spells. And the DM might do in whatever way he likes it.

Optimystik
2009-12-01, 11:12 AM
It lasts days/level, doesn't it? Extend it, return and cast it every month or so. Stick your simulacrum in the same room with a ton of copper pieces and instruct him to keep preparing and casting it. Have a Warforged or Elan do it.

Personally, I like the Quintessence idea.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-01, 11:14 AM
Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

Just add a small list of additional spells that can be permanencied, with prices, as a house rule. If available to everyone, it ain't cheating. Examine this list closely, though, there are a few spells that break the world if permanencied.

Edit: Also in SBG, I believe there is a corpse holder that is designed specifically for this task.

Telonius
2009-12-01, 12:01 PM
Depending on how you read the "Target" line, Flesh to Stone might have the same effect as a permanent Gentle Repose (without the XP loss that Permanency incurs).

SartheKobold
2009-12-01, 12:46 PM
I seem to remember from some supplement Campaign Setting <coughghostwalkcough> had a spell like that. It also kept undead from rotting and getting all smelly...

Teddy
2009-12-01, 01:12 PM
Depending on how you read the "Target" line, Flesh to Stone might have the same effect as a permanent Gentle Repose (without the XP loss that Permanency incurs).

Dead people are objects. FtS doesn't affect objects.

Ravens_cry
2009-12-01, 01:23 PM
Dead people are objects. FtS doesn't affect objects.
Animate Objects the corpse, and then Flesh to Stone.

Telonius
2009-12-01, 01:38 PM
Dead people are objects. FtS doesn't affect objects.

Using that literal of an interpretation, you can build a statue, cast "Stone to Flesh" on it to turn it into a corpse; but then you can't cast "Flesh to Stone" on the corpse to turn it back into a statue. While that might be the literal read, it seems to me that RAI the spells are supposed to be able to counteract one another.

... also, I think I have a new idea for a Bard pretending to be a Necromancer. :smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2009-12-01, 01:48 PM
Using that literal of an interpretation, you can build a statue, cast "Stone to Flesh" on it to turn it into a corpse; but then you can't cast "Flesh to Stone" on the corpse to turn it back into a statue.

That's how it works actually, otherwise Undead would be suckers for Flesh to Stone.

Fhaolan
2009-12-01, 01:52 PM
I had a thought. Rare event, yes, but bear with me.

Could you have the Gentle Repose actually be renewed constantly rather than a permanency? Perhaps even renewed without the 'casters' realizing that's what they're doing?

I've got a mental image of a monastic church, with the standard prayers being said on a regular basis (six to eight times a day if you follow the old Catholic system). Mixed into the standard prayers is a special renewal ritual. The priests have forgotten what it's for, and since it's been part of the daily rituals for generations, it's just not occured to them that it's anything unusual.

If the PCs figure it out, they've now got a renewal ritual for Gentle Repose. It may have restrictions such as 'has to be cast x number of times every day', or 'needs x number of people casting', or at least they need to still spend a reasonable amount of spell research time to work out the details.

Kobold-Bard
2009-12-01, 04:10 PM
I remember reading somewhere the maths for Permanency. Can't remember where exactly, might have been DMG2. It gave you the CL and XP costs for each spell level, allowing a legal way to Permanency Time Stop :smallcool:

Shademan
2009-12-01, 04:13 PM
Yeah, I know.

I just like to play it as close to the rules as possible.

SCREW THE RULES, YOU HAVE MONEY!

FerhagoRosewood
2009-12-01, 05:04 PM
I considered Flesh to Stone as well but it didn't fit what I was going to do.

Alot of these item ideas are fun, as well as people returning to cast it, but the person who is going to get this spell cast on them is a NPC from the past. And they have been forgotten, lost in history, in their makeshift tomb.

I'd say more, but I don't want to spoil it in case my group reads this.

Ormur
2009-12-01, 05:21 PM
I thought about this as a DM too and I'd allow myself to do it. If they can embalm Lenin and put him on display in real life you should be able to do it to King Awesome the Longsincedead with magic in D&D.

Yzzyx
2009-12-01, 07:22 PM
The Glass Coffin here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x) might work. Other than that, remember, the Dungeon Master's ability to make up the rules is a rule.