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View Full Version : Is there seriously no 0 LA race with a Cha bonus?



Talbot
2009-12-01, 01:44 AM
I've been looking through my books and the Crystal Keep, and it seems like Cha is more or less impossible to come by. Is there some obscure race from a Dragon Mag or something I could use, or am I just SOL?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-01, 01:46 AM
Spellscale, from RotD, +2 Cha, -2 Con.
Lesser Aasimar +2 Wis, +2 Cha.

Yukitsu
2009-12-01, 01:49 AM
Star elves from unapproachable east as well.

Eldariel
2009-12-01, 02:06 AM
Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold: -4 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Int, +1 Wis, +3 Cha. Also, nice chassis for a Sorcerer.

Talbot
2009-12-01, 02:09 AM
Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold: -4 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Int, +1 Wis, +3 Cha. Also, nice chassis for a Sorcerer.

That sounds ideal... what are the relevant books I'd need to do it?

Eldariel
2009-12-01, 02:14 AM
That sounds ideal... what are the relevant books I'd need to do it?

Races of the Dragon and Races of the Dragon. You may also want to consider Races of the Dragon. Additionally, Races of the Dragon may be useful. Though you'll have to draw upon a rule in Draconomicon IIRC.

But that's really a minor point; the basic crux of it: You're a Dragon as per Dragonwrought [RoTD] feat. Therefore, you gain aging bonuses without taking penalties. In effect, you exchange a feat for slightly better-than-average mental stats.


Oh, and Desert Kobold (and other environmental Kobold-variants) are in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) (alongside the original).

Mando Knight
2009-12-01, 02:15 AM
Races of the Dragon (for the Dragonwrought template. I believe that it may just be WotC online material as well) and Unearthed Arcana (or d20srd.org, for the "Desert" Environmental Racial Variant)

Zaq
2009-12-01, 02:34 AM
People always forget Hellbred, from Fiendish Codex II. They have two flavors; one has +2 CON and -2 INT, and one has +2 CHA and -2 CON. The second flavor, which is relevant to this discussion, also gets increasingly nice darkvision and eventually telepathy. They also get Devil's Favor as a bonus feat, and some minor skill bonuses. They've got fun fluff, too. I like Hellbred.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-12-01, 02:45 AM
Magic Blooded (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.0Index-Templates.pdf) (page 15) is a +0 LA template that gives Wis -2, Cha +2. Add it onto any race that already gets a Cha bonus and you're good to go.

OMG PONIES
2009-12-01, 11:15 AM
I see your little lizard and raise you a venerable magic-blooded unseelie fey spellscale. -8 STR, -4 DEX, -10 CON, +1 WIS, and +9 CHA. You'll be the best looking corpse in the party.

Kylarra
2009-12-01, 11:17 AM
I see your little lizard and raise you a venerable magic-blooded unseelie fey spellscale. -8 STR, -4 DEX, -10 CON, +1 WIS, and +9 CHA. You'll be the best looking corpse in the party.
The solution is clearly to become a necropolitan asap. :smalltongue:

OMG PONIES
2009-12-01, 11:20 AM
One sexy zombie.

Kylarra
2009-12-01, 11:22 AM
One sexy zombie.
Isn't there a feat that gives undead CHA to hp since they have no con?

Ravens_cry
2009-12-01, 11:28 AM
One sexy zombie.
Well, with a ring-o-gentle repose. . .

The Glyphstone
2009-12-01, 11:53 AM
Isn't there a feat that gives undead CHA to hp since they have no con?

Unfortunately no. It's a special trait given to select undead, almost all printed post MM3.

BenTheJester
2009-12-01, 11:54 AM
Isn't there a feat that gives undead CHA to hp since they have no con?

Dry Liches get that, I doubt it comes in feat form

Kylarra
2009-12-01, 11:59 AM
Unfortunately no. It's a special trait given to select undead, almost all printed post MM3.
Sadness, I guess our hypothetical undead will need to become a dry lich then!

SaintRidley
2009-12-01, 01:04 PM
Sadness, I guess our hypothetical undead will need to become a dry lich then!

And make it , what is it, 13 levels with minimal Con.

Mystic Muse
2009-12-01, 01:08 PM
they only get a -1 assuming they roll an 18. of course when you have d4 hit dice.:smallamused:

Kylarra
2009-12-01, 01:15 PM
And make it , what is it, 13 levels with minimal Con.Yeah well, no one said it would be easy.

Boci
2009-12-01, 01:19 PM
they only get a -1 assuming they roll an 18. of course when you have d4 hit dice.:smallamused:

Hence the necropolitant template to turn that into d12+0.

Myrmex
2009-12-01, 01:39 PM
The solution is clearly to become a necropolitan asap. :smalltongue:

Unfortunately, only humanoids can undergo the transformation into a necropolitan.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-12-01, 02:54 PM
No no no, you take the Frail (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) flaw. You'll have 1 HP at level 1, and get 0 HP at every level after that. If you ever hit level 20, you'll still have only 1 HP. The only thing I can think of that could reasonably survive with that would be a Psion with the Vigor/Shared Pain Psicrystal trick, which could actually work out quite well.

mikeejimbo
2009-12-01, 02:56 PM
No no no, you take the Frail (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) flaw. You'll have 1 HP at level 1, and get 0 HP at every level after that. If you ever hit level 20, you'll still have only 1 HP. The only thing I can think of that could reasonably survive with that would be a Psion with the Vigor/Shared Pain Psicrystal trick, which could actually work out quite well.

It's like the 55 HP monk from Guild Wars!

ericgrau
2009-12-01, 03:53 PM
Being old gives a +2 to all mental stats and -3 to all physical. Venerable a +3 to mental and -6 to physical. It's not just for dragonwrought kobolds.

Devils_Advocate
2009-12-01, 07:36 PM
But... but... then your disadvantage will effect you! It defeats the purpose of extreme min-maxing optimization! (http://agc.deskslave.org/comics/AGC22-2.GIF)

Gametime
2009-12-02, 01:16 AM
But... but... then your disadvantage will effect you! It defeats the purpose of extreme min-maxing optimization! (http://agc.deskslave.org/comics/AGC22-2.GIF)

While most min-maxing casters would gladly accept a -6 penalty to a physical stat in exchange for a +3 to a mental one, very few would accept a -6 penalty to the stats that govern initiative AND hit points. It's more like max-mining, at that point; you've gone so overboard at optimizing a single aspect of your character that you've rendered him weaker than he would've been if you'd left well enough alone.

(Also, your disadvantage effecting you would be quite a sight indeed. More common is a disadvantage affecting you.)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-02, 01:22 AM
While most min-maxing casters would gladly accept a -6 penalty to a physical stat in exchange for a +3 to a mental one, very few would accept a -6 penalty to the stats that govern initiative AND hit points. It's more like max-mining, at that point; you've gone so overboard at optimizing a single aspect of your character that you've rendered him weaker than he would've been if you'd left well enough alone.I've seen a couple builds that can handle it. Druids, either Casting or AC-focused, can often survive simply by flying around as a bird rather than being a Bear. Elf Wizards can do it too, through a combination of Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Nerveskitter, and a hummingbird.
(Also, your disadvantage effecting you would be quite a sight indeed. More common is a disadvantage affecting you.)I've made characters based around a disadvantage before. Oftimes, mechanically subpar feats, spells, or classes get my juices flowing.

Brother Oni
2009-12-02, 07:40 AM
I've made characters based around a disadvantage before. Oftimes, mechanically subpar feats, spells, or classes get my juices flowing.

That wooshing sound you hear is the difference between effect and affect flying over your head. :smalltongue:

Affect (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affect)

Effect (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/effect)

Signmaker
2009-12-02, 08:54 AM
That wooshing sound you hear is the difference between effect and affect flying over your head. :smalltongue:

Affect (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affect)

Effect (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/effect)

Must...resist...urge...to...xkcd...

I failed.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/effect_an_effect.png

Brother Oni
2009-12-02, 10:01 AM
Must...resist...urge...to...xkcd...

I failed.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/effect_an_effect.png

It's not really being an amateur grammar nazi if the poster missed the entire point. :smallbiggrin:

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-02, 11:05 AM
(Also, your disadvantage effecting you would be quite a sight indeed. More common is a disadvantage affecting you.)
Effect:something that is produced by an agency or cause; result; consequence
Effected:To bring into existence.
I've made characters based around a disadvantage before. Oftimes, mechanically subpar feats, spells, or classes get my juices flowing.I've had character concepts created by disadvantages before. Therefore, my characters have been been effected by them.
It's not really being an amateur grammar nazi if the poster missed the entire point.So, do I get to add another silhouette to my laptop?

Brother Oni
2009-12-03, 07:26 AM
I've had character concepts created by disadvantages before. Therefore, my characters have been been effected by them.


True, but Gametime was referring to the difference between effect and affect, not to the fact that you can create characters as a result of disavantages.

It just seemed to me that you missed the point of his post.:smalltongue:

Devils_Advocate's original post had the incorrect usage of effect.


So, do I get to add another silhouette to my laptop?

Depends on whose's silhouette it is.

Jagyr_Ebonwood
2009-12-03, 12:08 PM
Well, if you're playing Pathfinder (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/index.html), you could use gnomes (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/races.html#gnomes), half-elves (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/races.html#half-elves), half-orcs (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/races.html#half-orcs), halflings (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/races.html#halflings), or humans (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/races.html#humans).

Jayabalard
2009-12-03, 01:50 PM
Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold: -4 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Int, +1 Wis, +3 Cha. Also, nice chassis for a Sorcerer.hmm... it looks like there aren't any negatives to str/dex/con (I'd expect to see a -6 ) due to age in those stats.

Tanaric
2009-12-03, 01:51 PM
hmm... it looks like there aren't any negatives to str/dex/con (I'd expect to see a -6 ) due to age in those stats.

The Dragonwrought feat makes you immune to aging penalties.

nekomata2
2009-12-03, 01:52 PM
I believe the Dragonwrought bit makes them not take the physical penalties for aging, by giving them to Dragon type or something...

Edit: ninja'ed!!!

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-03, 01:53 PM
The Dragonwrought feat makes you immune to aging penalties.Also, incidentally, allows you to take Epic feats at level 1 and changes your type to Dragon, allowing all sorts of shenanigans.

Jayabalard
2009-12-03, 01:53 PM
The Dragonwrought feat makes you immune to aging penalties.yeah, I just caught that part.

OMG PONIES
2009-12-03, 01:54 PM
Now, not to derail the thread, but:

A.) Does the dragonwrought feat really make you a true dragon, or just give you the dragon type? I am AFB at the moment, so forgive my ignorance.

B.) If it makes you a true dragon, don't you then advance in dragon age categories, rather than regular age categories? And do those categories have ability bonuses/penalties at all?

Tanaric
2009-12-03, 01:56 PM
Now, not to derail the thread, but:

A.) Does the dragonwrought feat really make you a true dragon, or just give you the dragon type? I am AFB at the moment, so forgive my ignorance.

B.) If it makes you a true dragon, don't you then advance in dragon age categories, rather than regular age categories? And do those categories have ability bonuses/penalties at all?

It makes you a Dragon, and according to the Draconomicon, a True Dragon is a dragon that advances through age categories (or, rather, Lesser Dragons are those that do not). The writers of RotD saw fit to give Kobolds dragon age categories alongside normal adult/old/venerable, in addition to a feat that changes their type to Dragon. Hilarity ensues when you add in Loredrake.

Jagyr_Ebonwood
2009-12-03, 09:09 PM
Also, incidentally, allows you to take Epic feats at level 1 and changes your type to Dragon, allowing all sorts of shenanigans.

I'm not much of a CharOp guy, so could you explain how you get [Epic] feats at level 1 with this?

Eldariel
2009-12-03, 09:31 PM
I'm not much of a CharOp guy, so could you explain how you get [Epic] feats at level 1 with this?

According to Draconomicon, Dragons qualify for epic feats based on their age category rather than HD or Level. It just so happens that due to the above, old-enough Dragonwrought Kobolds can have age category of Old or higher on level 1, which means they qualify for epic feats.

That's a part I wouldn't use though; Dragonwrought negating aging penalties is actually pretty fair and makes the race actually good, but Dragonwrought picking up epic feats pre-epic or taking upon the sovereign archetypes or such kinda breaks things.

deuxhero
2009-12-03, 09:39 PM
I don't know, outside of the spell casting stuff, a LOT of the epic feats are really really lame.

Starbuck_II
2009-12-03, 09:45 PM
I don't know, outside of the spell casting stuff, a LOT of the epic feats are really really lame.

How many venerable Dragonwroughts are non-spellcasters? Seriously, I haven't seen it yet.

Demons_eye
2009-12-03, 09:56 PM
I have made like 3.