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OMG PONIES
2009-12-01, 11:19 AM
So, my post in the LA +0 CHA bonus thread resulted in some crazy -10 CON build. Which got me thinking...what if you crazy folk threw your op-fu into reverse and focused on making the weakest character possible, attribute-wise?

I'm thinking of three different flavors: level 1, level 10, and level 20. Layer on the templates (as long as they stack properly), age penalties, etc. 28 point buy, and every attribute must have a value (sorry undead and constructs). All WotC books and Dungeon/Dragon magazines allowed. Basically, I'm trying to see if we can squeak out a character with a 1 in every attribute.

Edit: We want this character to be weak walking out the door. As such, they should not be under the effect of any ability draining spells/effects. I want to see how low we can get the stats in character creation alone.

Fluffles
2009-12-01, 11:21 AM
Str, Con, and dex can be done by getting drained. Feeble mind takes care of Int and Cha, wis I'm not sure about.

JeenLeen
2009-12-01, 11:27 AM
Are you assuming a point-buy system or rolling for stats? If rolling, can you disregard the rules for re-rolling?

If yes, you can have someone start with all 3s, at least in theory. You can lower some physical stats to 1 by aging.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-01, 11:29 AM
Str, Con, and dex can be done by getting drained. Feeble mind takes care of Int and Cha, wis I'm not sure about.

Aillp (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm) drains 1d4 wis, with its incorporeal touch

Edwin
2009-12-01, 11:29 AM
So, my post in the LA +0 CHA bonus thread resulted in some crazy -10 CON build. Which got me thinking...what if you crazy folk threw your op-fu into reverse and focused on making the weakest character possible, attribute-wise?

I'm thinking of three different flavors: level 1, level 10, and level 20. Layer on the templates (as long as they stack properly), age penalties, etc. 28 point buy, and every attribute must have a value (sorry undead and constructs). All WotC books and Dungeon/Dragon magazines allowed. Basically, I'm trying to see if we can squeak out a character with a 1 in every attribute.

Edit: We want this character to be weak walking out the door. As such, they should not be under the effect of any ability draining spells/effects. I want to see how low we can get the stats in character creation alone.

Well, it would infinitely tricked, since just about every template and race gives both plusses and minuses to ability score. Hell, a good deal of them only adds +2 to some ability score, without a penalty.

OMG PONIES
2009-12-01, 11:31 AM
28 point-buy is not assumed, but mentioned specifically in the OP. :smallbiggrin:

Otherwise, this exercise would be fairly easy. I mean, getting all 3s and aging to old would take care of the three physical stats (since I assume there's a rule that you can't have a stat below 1 in character creation). If we can't have all stats at 1, I want to see what the worst stats we can conjure are.

Cyclocone
2009-12-01, 11:33 AM
Take the Pathetic flaw several times for each stat?

Then use all the feats to get Toughness.

Douglas
2009-12-01, 12:04 PM
I remember seeing a level 20 psion build that ended up as a nonmagical sandwich. It was called Nup-nup, I believe.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-01, 01:33 PM
According to the PHB, you need to reroll if your stats are below a certain limit. IIRC, using those rules, the worst you can start with is 13/10/10/10/10/10, so there's no way to roll and start with straight 3s. That said, if you go, say, Dragonborn of Bahumet Dwarf Necropolitan, you're able to go 18/8/8/8/8/8, then put the 18 into Con, then turn your con to -, leaving you with 8/-/6/8/8/6. Doable by 3, with no LA.

arguskos
2009-12-01, 02:06 PM
I remember seeing a level 20 psion build that ended up as a nonmagical sandwich. It was called Nup-nup, I believe.
No, Nup-Nup is a Wiz 10/Psion 10 with an Int of 10 who has a total of 0 hp at level 20. :smallbiggrin: Sadly his thread was eaten by the WotC thread purge, so I can't find him anymore. :smallfrown:

Grushvak
2009-12-01, 02:23 PM
No, Nup-Nup is a Wiz 10/Psion 10 with an Int of 10 who has a total of 0 hp at level 20. :smallbiggrin: Sadly his thread was eaten by the WotC thread purge, so I can't find him anymore. :smallfrown:

Only way to see these old threads is through the wayback machine. I'd copy-paste them here but I'm too lazy.

Psionic Sandwich is the best character ever.

Bagelz
2009-12-01, 04:36 PM
goblin straight sorcerer (also usable orc or kobold)
starting 15str, 10dex, 10con, 8int, 18 wis, 8 char
13str, 12dex, 10 con, 8 int, 18 wis, 6 char.

this eliminates his/her ability to cast spells, gives 1 skill point per level, bad base attack bonus,
the only thing not horrible about this is a good will save. put all your available skill points in cross class skill like knowledge astronomy.

take nothing but metamagic feats. you are useless, but you can make a will save.

Brendan
2009-12-01, 04:55 PM
At higher levels, disjoin an artifact. lose all casting. Be something with a bad constitution. have no hp. take exotic weapon proficiency a bunch of times with a weapon that is not in that time period.

mikeejimbo
2009-12-01, 04:57 PM
goblin straight sorcerer (also usable orc or kobold)
starting 15str, 10dex, 10con, 8int, 18 wis, 8 char
13str, 12dex, 10 con, 8 int, 18 wis, 6 char.

this eliminates his/her ability to cast spells, gives 1 skill point per level, bad base attack bonus,
the only thing not horrible about this is a good will save. put all your available skill points in cross class skill like knowledge astronomy.

take nothing but metamagic feats. you are useless, but you can make a will save.

Wis is way too high. I don't believe this test is "Worst character" but literally "Worst stats."

jiriku
2009-12-01, 05:32 PM
prestige from sorcerer into alienist. Presto! Instant Wisdom loss, plus some skill penalities, and as a bonus, more metamagic feats you can't use.

Do be sure not to put more than 4 ranks in any one skill, to avoid the chance of getting skill bonuses from skill synergy.

OMG PONIES
2009-12-01, 05:55 PM
According to the PHB, you need to reroll if your stats are below a certain limit. IIRC, using those rules, the worst you can start with is 13/10/10/10/10/10, so there's no way to roll and start with straight 3s. That said, if you go, say, Dragonborn of Bahumet Dwarf Necropolitan, you're able to go 18/8/8/8/8/8, then put the 18 into Con, then turn your con to -, leaving you with 8/-/6/8/8/6. Doable by 3, with no LA.

Though this is the spirit I like to see, we need to find a better way to deal with the CON, since each attribute must retain a value. Is a venerable character a good way to go, or do the mental bonuses outweigh the physical penalties? I think a mineral warrior venerable dragonborn dwarf is a good start.

Krow
2009-12-01, 06:06 PM
A friend of mine played something like that once. Except he wasn't that cruddy, having one decent stat (Dexterity at an 18 - rolled). The rest of the stats were quite horrible:

Strength 12
Constitution 6!
Intelligence 9!
Wisdom 8!
Charisma 15 (YAY - No use whatsoever)

Plus this is his stats pre-race. He's a Moon Elf... :smallconfused:

The problem with this build is that he was a multiclass (Fighter / Ranger / Druid / Wizard...yeah), relying on his ability to dual wield for offensive capability with no damage bonuses whatsoever, like sneak attack, rendering him as useful as my Character's pet rock... which still dealt more damage due to Dragonfire Inspiration. The most ironic part is due to some bad rolls by the DM, he managed to survive halfway into the campaign, until he was one shotted by some Umber Hulk...

He went by many names:
XP-sink and "The Load"

===

Just wanted to share that one. But I'm quite interested in seeing one heck of a craptastic character constructed on this thread.

elonin
2009-12-01, 08:51 PM
Play a wizard and be a complete moron with spell selection and general strategy. For example make all of your spell selections open/close just in case.

SurlySeraph
2009-12-01, 09:43 PM
Take the Pathetic flaw several times for each stat?

Then use all the feats to get Toughness.

Nah, use it to get Vile feats, and then get the Saint template, which makes you lose all Vile feats you have. I used this in a de-optimization contest we had a while back, but I can't find the thread.

EDIT: Here it is. Just take the Pathetic [ability score] feats a bunch more times.

I've got my build!

Gud-gud, Neutral Good Sanctified Venerable Kobold Fiendish Flamewreath Warlock 8
Str 1 (0 if the Pathetic Strength flaw can reduce it to 0)
Dex 4
Con 1
Int 21
Wis 18
Cha 9 (11 and don't take Pathetic Charisma if you rule that a Warlock must have 11 Cha)

Skills:
11 Craft (Basketweaving)
11 Craft (Bookbinding)
11 Craft (Calligraphy)
11 Craft (Cobbling)
11 Craft (Gemcutting)
11 Craft (Painting)
11 Craft (Pottery)
11 Craft (Sculpting)
8 Craft (Weaving)

Equipment:
+1 Heavenly Burst kukri. The Heavenly Burst ability is from the Book of Exalted deeds. On a critical hit against an evil opponent, the opponent takes 3d6 damage and must save or be blinded, but the wielder takes 1d2 Str damage. Since Gud-gud has 1 Str, this means that any time he manages to do significant damage, he paralyzes himself. A +2 Vicious cold iron weapon would be slightly more pessimized, as it would guarantee that he knocks himself unconscious whenever he makes an attack, but I'll let him keep this almost-advantage because the flavor of the Heavenly Burst weapon works well with his build.
If he already has 0 Str through the Pathetic Strength flaw or a -2 Cursed Belt of Giant's Strength, he doesn't need this weapon.

Ring of X-Ray Vision. If he leaves it on for more than ten minutes a day, he dies from Con damage.

Flaws: All of them, and trade them in for Vile feats. If you want to limit them, only Pathetic Constitution and Frail (taken as a young adult, back when he had 4 Con) are necessary.

Feats: All Vile feats. There are 33 of them, so I can take one for every feat I get even counting in flaws. It doesn't matter exactly which ones he takes - you'll see why in a moment.

Invocations:
Doesn't matter. You'll see why in a moment.

This build relies on the beauty of the Sanctified template, from the Book of Exalted Deeds. A Sanctified creature is an evil creature that has survived the Sanctify the Wicked spell - a spell that has been referred to as Holy Mindrape, as it imprisons the target's soul in a gem for a year and brainwashes him into a Good-aligned creature.
A Sanctified creature has +2 LA. It gains a few minor benefits (like Tongues and Magic Circle Against Evil), but the important part of this build is that a Sanctified creature loses all Vile feats it has, *and* all pre-existing supernatural and spell-like abilities. Therefore, a Warlock who takes this loses pretty much all his class features. The reason I'm using the Fiendish Flamewreath class variant is because it replaces Fiendish Resilience with another spell-like ability, so he loses that, too. All the poor Warlock is left with is DR 2/Cold Iron and Deceive Item, which is useless if he doesn't have any magic items to use it with.

Backstory:
Gud-Gud was a big nasty evil warlock. He was completely evil and irredeemable, except for his curious obsession with making artwork, and all his power stemmed from pacts he had made with fiends. Even though he was physically pathetic, Gud-Gud's intelligence made him a deadly opponent.
Fortunately, one day Gud-Gud was defeated by a group of nice paladins. Rather than doing something so horrible as kill him, they decided to lock his soul in a gem for a year and brainwash him into a humble servant of good. When Gud-Gud was released, he was overjoyed. Now, after long years working on behalf of good, Gud-Gud lives only for his art, as there is nothing else he is physically strong enough to do.
Gud-Gud never forgot how to plan, and he wears a Ring of X-Ray Vision to make sure no one sneaks up on him. Unfortunately, when he forgets to take the ring off he dies, but that's OK. Gud-Gud is always wary against evil, and he carries his Heavenly Burst kukri everywhere, knowing that if he is up against a weak opponent such as another kobold, there is a slight chance that it will kill his opponent before it paralyzes him.

HP: 8d6 minus 40. With Frail, he gets 0 HP.

Saves:
Fort +2 base, -6 final (-3 without flaws)
Ref +2 base, -4 final (-1 without flaws)
Will +6 base, +8 final (+11 without flaws)
+2 on all saves vs. evil creatures, for what itís worth.

AC 8, 10 against evil creatures (9, 11 against evil creatures if the Vulnerable flaw isn't allowed)

DR 2/Cold Iron

Attacks:
Light Ray +1 (only usable once per round), 3d6 damage vs. evil creatures only.
Kukri +0/-5, 1d4+1 damage. On critical hit against evil creature, additional 3d6 damage and save vs. blindness, but wielder takes 1d2 STR damage.

Analysis: Gud-Gud may survive an attack, provided his opponent doesn't have a Cold Iron weapon and rolls unusually badly for damage. However, it is very difficult to not hit Gud-Gud, and most hits will knock him out instantly. Gud-Gud can't be mind-controlled thanks to his permanent Protection from Evil, and his Will save is decent, but with two negative saves he has little chance against anything that isn't mind-affecting. Gud-Gud has Aura of Menace, which gives minor penalties to nearby enemies who haven't hit him yet. Gud-Gud gets a lot more benefit out of Aura of Menace than most creatures would, as once he's hit the fight is usually over. Gud-Gud's Light Ray is his only hope, as it deals reasonable damage and has range (since even if he has enough Str to move, he has a flaw that halves his movement speed). However, it only affects evil creatures, and so won't protect him from mice, sparrows, or other creatures that could easily kill him. His kukri is, of course, worse than useless, as if he ever rolls high enough to hit his opponent, it'll probably be a critical hit that'll paralyze him.
On the bright side, Gud-Gud's Tongues ability and high Int and Wis mean that he can come up with good plans, or talk about his artwork, in any language. Too bad he doesn't have the charisma to convince anyone of what he's saying...

EDIT: Factored in Small size and stat increases. Added every flaw possible. Added an analysis.

SilverClawShift
2009-12-01, 09:56 PM
Play a wizard and be a complete moron with spell selection and general strategy. For example make all of your spell selections open/close just in case.

No way.

You'll stumble into a dungeon made of doorways that fall into platforms when they open, and the only way through is by having 55 copies of Open/Close prepared.

Maybe our DM panders to us too much...

ocdscale
2009-12-01, 10:26 PM
Play a wizard and be a complete moron with spell selection and general strategy. For example make all of your spell selections open/close just in case.

What are the stats of this wizard? Did you read the OP?

kjones
2009-12-01, 10:27 PM
No way.

You'll stumble into a dungeon made of doorways that fall into platforms when they open, and the only way through is by having 55 copies of Open/Close prepared.

Maybe our DM panders to us too much...

How 'bout Arcane Mark instead?

Milskidasith
2009-12-01, 10:33 PM
How 'bout Arcane Mark instead?

Your obsession with marking all your property is used as proof in a trial that you weren't the guy who killed Dead McNPCJustThereToBeKilledToPanderToTheArcaneMarkGuy .

What? It's a common name in my state.

Kylarra
2009-12-01, 10:53 PM
Venerable Gheden Half-Stained Glass Golem Magic-blooded desert kobold.
with Base rolls of 13/10/10/10/10/10
becomes 5/4/4/5/9/7

kjones
2009-12-02, 12:23 AM
Your obsession with marking all your property is used as proof in a trial that you weren't the guy who killed Dead McNPCJustThereToBeKilledToPanderToTheArcaneMarkGuy .

What? It's a common name in my state.

I tried, but I couldn't come up with a less useful cantrip to fill all your slots with. Repair Minor Object (SpC), maybe? But that's almost certainly more useful.

Douglas
2009-12-02, 12:31 AM
I tried, but I couldn't come up with a less useful cantrip to fill all your slots with. Repair Minor Object (SpC), maybe? But that's almost certainly more useful.
Launch Bolt. Can't get much worse than a cantrip that is entirely replaced by a single nonmagical item costing 35 gp.

Let's see, for this to actually be useful a) shooting a single crossbow bolt would have to be your best available option, b) you would have to have a crossbow bolt, and c) you would have to not have a light crossbow. Oh wait, this spell does negate the need to load the crossbow. Still...

ericgrau
2009-12-02, 12:41 AM
So far...

venerable (-6 physical, +3 mental) arctic kobold (-2 str, -2 con, +2 dex, -2 wis)
gear: ring of clumsiness (-4 dex), armor of rage (-4 cha), robe of powerlessness (-10 str, -10 int)
-18 str, -8 con, -8 dex, -7 int, +1 wis, -1 cha

str 18 => 1 (16 points)
con 10 => 2 (2 point)
dex 16 => 8 (10 points)
int 8 => 1
wis 8 => 9
cha 8 => 7

No stat above 9 and an average of 5. It's a start.

rockdeworld
2009-12-02, 01:16 AM
When you finish, make it a wizard and have it fight an optimized fighter. Just for an example.

Edit: If it has high enough stats to cast spells, of course.

Arakune
2009-12-02, 01:22 AM
Launch Bolt. Can't get much worse than a cantrip that is entirely replaced by a single nonmagical item costing 35 gp.

Let's see, for this to actually be useful a) shooting a single crossbow bolt would have to be your best available option, b) you would have to have a crossbow bolt, and c) you would have to not have a light crossbow. Oh wait, this spell does negate the need to load the crossbow. Still...

Launch colossal bolts

Andras
2009-12-02, 01:27 AM
Launch Bolt. Can't get much worse than a cantrip that is entirely replaced by a single nonmagical item costing 35 gp.

Let's see, for this to actually be useful a) shooting a single crossbow bolt would have to be your best available option, b) you would have to have a crossbow bolt, and c) you would have to not have a light crossbow. Oh wait, this spell does negate the need to load the crossbow. Still...

Use it to launch Colossal-size ammo. Suddenly, Launch Bolt becomes far, far better.

Edit: beaten like a red-headed stepchild

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-02, 02:35 AM
Don't forget to take a Weapon of Legacy to add fun BAB, save and skill penalties. There are some truly awful weapons in that book. Can you take more than one WoL, I wonder?

OMG PONIES
2009-12-02, 12:54 PM
Venerable Gheden Half-Stained Glass Golem Magic-blooded desert kobold.
with Base rolls of 13/10/10/10/10/10
becomes 5/4/4/5/9/7


So far...

venerable (-6 physical, +3 mental) arctic kobold (-2 str, -2 con, +2 dex, -2 wis)
gear: ring of clumsiness (-4 dex), armor of rage (-4 cha), robe of powerlessness (-10 str, -10 int)
-18 str, -8 con, -8 dex, -7 int, +1 wis, -1 cha

str 18 => 1 (16 points)
con 10 => 2 (2 point)
dex 16 => 8 (10 points)
int 8 => 1
wis 8 => 9
cha 8 => 7

No stat above 9 and an average of 5. It's a start.

Now this is what I'm talking about! Kudos to ericgrau for having multiple stats at one, and props to Kylarra for doing pretty darn well without gear. Any ideas on templates we can saddle ericgrau's poor old lizard with? I think we can get those stats lower.

Also, can a character take the pathetic flaw multiple times?

Cieyrin
2009-12-02, 01:47 PM
Don't forget to take a Weapon of Legacy to add fun BAB, save and skill penalties. There are some truly awful weapons in that book. Can you take more than one WoL, I wonder?

There are examples in book of having more than one WoL at a time (Devious and Vicious), so yes you can. It's just generally advised that you don't.


Also, can a character take the pathetic flaw multiple times?

Technically, you can only have 2 flaws, so only 2 Pathetics per character.

DementedFellow
2009-12-02, 07:27 PM
Use it to launch Colossal-size ammo. Suddenly, Launch Bolt becomes far, far better.

Edit: beaten like a red-headed stepchild

Let's see if we take Eschew Materials and Launch Bolt, does that mean I can cast this spell as if I was holding colossal size bolts?

OMG PONIES
2009-12-03, 04:07 PM
So, combining Kylarra and ericgrau's two creatures, I have almost achieved the goal. A character so inept that he probably can't even move. The kids...they call him:

Mr. Glass

He begins his humble life as a venerable magic-blooded gheden arctic kobold, with the following stats (using 28 point buy)

STR 11
DEX 13
CON 8
INT 18
WIS 8
CHA 12

However, Mr. Glass is a creature of advanced age and unfortunate lineage, leading to a few specific disadvantages. He begins an adventuring career, which is justified below.

Mr. Glass maintains an excellent intelligence score (19), so he begins a career as a wizard. This build assumes that Mr. Glass is being built at ECL 10, broken down as follows: Conjurer 5/Alienist 2/LA 2/Vecna-Blooded 1. Furthermore, he begins with the Pathetic Wisdom flaw, taken two times*. He becomes a mineral warrior and lives in a dark cave somewhere. As Mr. Glass studies more and more of the arcane arts, he decides to fuse stained glass into his body. However, he fails his Will save and becomes a half stained-glass golem. The poor construct looks for strength in evil, and finds Vecna. Vecna smiles on this sad little lizard and blesses him with years of torture, bestowing upon him the Vecna-Blooded template (for giggles). Additionally, the god of secrets gives Mr. Glass a few magical items. However, now incapable of casting spells, he dons the items without bothering to identify them, only to find out that they are cursed!

*If he cannot take the same pathetic flaw twice, he will substitute Pathetic Constitution for one of them.

Ultimately, at ECL 10, Mr. Glass winds up as a Venerable Vecna-Blooded Magic-Blooded Gheden Half Stained-Glass Golem Mineral Warrior (wielding a Ring of Clumsiness, Armor of Rage, and Robe of Powerlessness) with the following stats:

STR 1
DEX 1
CON -
INT 1
WIS 3
CHA 1

Though the CON score isn't valued due to becoming a half-golem, perhaps the Incarnate Construct template could solve this (and lower the LA). However, I'm not quite sure how the Incarnate Construct template works. But I think this is a good start--a shriveled old kobold with one undead parent made of stone and glass who is so pathetic most people forget he even exists.

rockdeworld
2009-12-03, 06:04 PM
Don't forget int has a minimum of 3 for intelligent races.


Intelligence (Int)

Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons. This ability is important for wizards because it affects how many spells they can cast, how hard their spells are to resist, and how powerful their spells can be. Itís also important for any character who wants to have a wide assortment of skills.

You apply your characterís Intelligence modifier to:

* The number of languages your character knows at the start of the game.
* The number of skill points gained each level. (But your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level.)
* Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft checks. These are the skills that have Intelligence as their key ability.

A wizard gains bonus spells based on her Intelligence score. The minimum Intelligence score needed to cast a wizard spell is 10 + the spellís level.

An animal has an Intelligence score of 1 or 2. A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3.

flabort
2009-12-03, 10:24 PM
Easy: since he's bellow 3 int, he's a babbling moron, without ability to speak. behaves like a wild animal, runs on instict and imediate nessesites alone. for a kobold, who is aproaching sub-animalistic anyways, this isn't too unbelivable.

Hard: he's got chronic alzhimers, and this has caused him to not remember anything since the age of 2, human scale. this is not his real age, since he's a kobold, but he behaves JUST like a 2-year old human, or worse. crying for mommy, ****ting his diapers, being unable to walk on two legs, vomiting in stranger's faces, taking all nutrients in the form of a liquid, and needing to be burped after a meal.

elonin
2009-12-04, 07:08 AM
So, combining Kylarra and ericgrau's two creatures, I have almost achieved the goal. A character so inept that he probably can't even move. The kids...they call him:

Mr. Glass

He begins his humble life as a venerable magic-blooded gheden arctic kobold, with the following stats (using 28 point buy)

STR 11
DEX 13
CON 8
INT 18
WIS 8
CHA 12

However, Mr. Glass is a creature of advanced age and unfortunate lineage, leading to a few specific disadvantages. He begins an adventuring career, which is justified below.

Mr. Glass maintains an excellent intelligence score (19), so he begins a career as a wizard. This build assumes that Mr. Glass is being built at ECL 10, broken down as follows: Conjurer 5/Alienist 2/LA 2/Vecna-Blooded 1. Furthermore, he begins with the Pathetic Wisdom flaw, taken two times*. He becomes a mineral warrior and lives in a dark cave somewhere. As Mr. Glass studies more and more of the arcane arts, he decides to fuse stained glass into his body. However, he fails his Will save and becomes a half stained-glass golem. The poor construct looks for strength in evil, and finds Vecna. Vecna smiles on this sad little lizard and blesses him with years of torture, bestowing upon him the Vecna-Blooded template (for giggles). Additionally, the god of secrets gives Mr. Glass a few magical items. However, now incapable of casting spells, he dons the items without bothering to identify them, only to find out that they are cursed!

*If he cannot take the same pathetic flaw twice, he will substitute Pathetic Constitution for one of them.

Ultimately, at ECL 10, Mr. Glass winds up as a Venerable Vecna-Blooded Magic-Blooded Gheden Half Stained-Glass Golem Mineral Warrior (wielding a Ring of Clumsiness, Armor of Rage, and Robe of Powerlessness) with the following stats:

STR 1
DEX 1
CON -
INT 1
WIS 3
CHA 1

Though the CON score isn't valued due to becoming a half-golem, perhaps the Incarnate Construct template could solve this (and lower the LA). However, I'm not quite sure how the Incarnate Construct template works. But I think this is a good start--a shriveled old kobold with one undead parent made of stone and glass who is so pathetic most people forget he even exists.

I don 't think that you can take the pathetic flaw at all due to having the 18. I like the build where you build have 3's in all ability scores except con which has all of the points then take necropolotin.

OMG PONIES
2009-12-04, 09:54 AM
If Mr. Glass stays a construct and decides not to fiddle with the Incarnate Construct template, would he be able to retain his 1 INT? I think he'd make a lovely window hanging at this point.

Edit: In regards to the pathetic flaw, I was under the impression that you could not take it if your total ability modifiers were +8 or greater. I assumed that this includes bonuses and penalties for age, race, and any inherited templates. If this is the case, Mr. Glass is well below a +8 total. Even if it only applies to original stats before any modification, Mr. Glass squeaks by with a total of +6. My biggest question is still whether or not he can take Pathetic Wisdom twice, or if he has to select a different ability each time he takes the flaw.