Prime20: Taking Advice! Voting Still Open! [d20/Prime20][WIP]

[alchemyprime]

Yes, as the tag will indicate, I too am working on a d20 variant. I'm on the band wagon. Some of you have been helping me.

CONTRIBUTORS

Gwyn Chan 'r Gwll
Moosefisher
Draken
Shmee
Tialait
AnonymousWizard, with the same mindset that makes A20 fun!
Apalala
Obviously, Alchemyprime
Others!


Now, if Prime20 just isn't doing it for you, you have options. You can also check out
d20r (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Main_Page) (who's sorceror became the basis for our Seed system, and I will continue to leech off of for the rest of time, dang it!),
A20WAR (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130275) made by our own contributor, AnonymousWizard,
Frog20 (someone find me a link for this, please?),
H20 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7560968) or
Green Ronin's True20 (http://true20.com/) for those who want a simplified 3.5 experience, or
Paizo's Pathfinder (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG) (which was much of Prime20's inspiration (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/)) or
Ultimate D&D (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/index.php?title=Ultimate_Classes) (which Prime20 branched off of, and I myself contributed to on the Scourge class). You have options, folks.

THE ORIGINAL POST

I've noticed the mentalities behind the others here too:

H20: Seems to be based around a concept similar to True20. I can't read Italian well, so this is mostly hearsay (not heresy I hope).

Frog20: Low magic. Not my style.

d20 Rebirth: I... have taken some of Fax's work I will admit. Fax's sorcerer fit my wizard's Research mechanic, warlock's Channel mechanic and sorcerer's Improvise mechanic very well. I love what Fax did here, and so I will admit, this one is one I'd play, though it is also no my style.

A20: AnonymousWizard's variant. High Magic, low item. Fun. I like the idea. But still not what I aim for.


So I thought, what do I want in Prime20 (originally called d20 Alchemy, I may switch it back).


I want classes that I can build
I want classes that definitely fit a niche (skillmonkey assassin Rogues, pure power fighters, paladins are warriors of a cause, etc.)
I want to follow Rule of Cool. If something is awesome, its in. A neutral paladin of nature, making his smites out of freezing ice and burning fire and stinging acid? Awesome! Good paladins with a smite that buffs all their allies? AWESOME!)
I wanted classes that felt awesome. Priests are conduits of the deities, Occultists covincing people they are gods, martial artist Drizzt/Aragorn rangers, wizards making up new spells.)
I wanted my race to stay important. Dwarves that as they level get DR/adamantine, elves that get bonuses to initiative and AC, halflings that get even better at acrobatics and having sticky fingers, humans that do a bit of everything)
I wanted skills that were easier to manage. A smaller, more condenced list, and skills that advance at a "Half or All" rule. You're ADVENTURERS! You know stuff!
More feats. With fighters getting more talents and less feats, I wanted even more feats. Nonhumans starting with 3 feats? Sounds fun to me.
I wanted you to be able to bring your background into a bit. A city elf, a wood elf and a high elf should all be a little different. I give you Major and Minor traits! Major (stolen from Iron Heroes) and Minor (from Unearthed Arcana) to modify your player further.
More dakka! MORE DAKKA I SAY!
I like guns. I really like guns. So I decided "Let's have guns."
I wanted people to have more goodies, more options (well, not too much the casters. Mainly the non casters). Give paladins Auras and spellcasting like a bard. Give fighters talent trees and feats. Give rogues paths to follow as rogues! You can be a rogue and NEVER LEARN TO SNEAK ATTACK! You can be a barbarian that NEVER RAGES! It's fun! You can, of course, still do the old ways...
Somehow, I gave druids more options and lowered their power. I have no idea how I did that...
I figured there are some classes that can be combined: Soulborn, you're a Paladin build now. Dragonfire Adept, you're now Draconic Warlock.
I freaking hate dual casting PrCs. I just decided to make dual casting core classes. Warlord, Paladin, Occultist, welcome to the dual casting club.
I liked some of 4e's ideas. So I implemented them after a fashion (Healing Surges replaced with Reserve Points, at will cantrips and eventually 1sts, rechargeable 2nds through 4ths after you get high enough level, epic spellcasting based on metamagic ffeats and researching spells built into classes)
Most of all, I wanted a system where building my character was almost as fun as playing him. Where I kept having options to exploit. Where, by pure calculation of options, I can tell that I have over a few bajillion ways to build a sorcerer before I pick spells.


Those were my design tennants. I set out to fill them. And when peopl easked why, like how this fixed D&D 3.5, I answered
"It doesn't."
When asked "Why then?" my only answer would be
"Because it's awesome."

And that's my mentality. I like it. And so I want to know: Who wants to help me reinvent the car without reinventing the wheel? Who wants to make d20 with more dakka? MORE DAKKA?

The sort of game where your party at 1st level can be Captain America, Kenshin Himura, Vash the Stampede, Freddie Mercury, and Wanda Maximoff, and it's EXACTLY WHAT'S TO BE EXPECTED AT 1st.

Geez... Maybe I should just call this Exalted d20 and be over with it.

Still, just some fun thoughts. Wanted to know what people thought, and what this sort of proposal makes people feel. Who would be excited to jump on this bandwagon (I'll share with those who wanna help before I share around.)



So why are we here? (I'm assuming you jumped the spoiler) Simple. We want to make a d20 variant that is... how do I put this...

We want more dakka.

MORE DAKKA!

Rule of Cool must reign supreme! You guys are HEROES! Why do we need REALISM? We need EPIC INSIDE as early as 1st level! Wizards making new spells, fighters doing things through sheer badassery (which from this point forward will not only be a feat tree, but a noun), rogues being everything they are on TV (except life draining hotties. Unless you're into that, which I suppose they can be), bards being less spoony, more "Freddie Mercury meets the Music Meister meets Spike Spiegel meets the Doctor".

This is the Highest Powered Variant we have. High magic, high power, high magic item (or at least standard WBL). Fighter not being "the meat shield" but being the guy who's pulling off techniques that make Mortal Kombat characters look upon in awe. WITHOUT MARTIAL MANEUVERS! (Rangers, Warlords, Bards and Paladins get THOSE...).

This is Prime20. Our idea: Rule 0 and Rule of Cool should be ONE AND THE SAME!

This is the sort of game where your first level conjurer's theme song is "Awaken MustaKrakish" by Dethklok, where your rogue is already more ninja than a ninja, where memes are built into class features.

No. Seriously. We've come to the conclusion that bards need an ability to play people off. It either involves a vaudeville piano or a cat.

This is not the system for "gritty realism". This is the system where Tengan Toppa Gurren Langan weilding the Goldion Crusher from Gao Gai Gar would be considered UNDERPOWERED. Where the Tarrasque can make Nyalthotep IMPLODE and a 1st level party makes The King In Yellow WET HIMSELF. Where commoners say "Candlejack" and FINISH THEIR DAMN POSTS!!! Where DMs use HYPERBOLE!

Welcome, to Prime20.

CLASS LIST

Barbarian:
Draft 1 IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23907610/Barbarian) FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169380826/f3cb5767/Barbarian.html)
Bard: IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/26233598/Bard)
Battle Medic: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 0)
Cleric:
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23882090/Cleric)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/168993473/dff50045/Cleric.html)
Druid:
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23850789/Druid) FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/168434775/5f2928ef/Druid.html)
Fighter: Draft 1
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23790313/Fighter) FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/167339684/b753f60d/Fighter.html)
Draft 2 In Browser (http://www.scribd.com/doc/24880993) For Download (http://www.4shared.com/file/190170450/dfd3fc54/Fighter2.html)
Monk: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
Occultist: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
Paladin: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 2)
Ranger: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 2)
Rogue: Draft 1
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/24132240/Rogue)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/173658133/90588b1b/Rogue.html)
Sorcerer: Draft 1
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23698065) FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/165738642/4637286e/Sorcerer.html)
Warlock: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
Warlord: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
Wizard: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 3)

Others: ... Wait til I got those done, bub.


RACES
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23940098/Prime-20-Races)
FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169931715/24446731/Prime20Races.html)
Kobolds! Hooray! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7819971&postcount=146)

RACIAL ADVANCEMENT
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23940101/Racial-Advancement)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169932662/e616a18c/Racial_Advancement.html)

VARIANT RULES
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23936450/Prime20-Variant-Rules-Document-1)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169837028/9aa0d2b3/Prime20_Variant_Rules_Document.html)

[Anonymouswizard]

Welcome to the club! This looks like a decent set of criteria, so how do you intend to fulfil them? Mind if I "adopt" ideas that I like?

Now, I like the idea of classes being able to follow different paths, I did put it in right after the normal classes, the VARIANT CLASSES. But paths sound good, what I really want to play is a magical rogue who doesn't have to tek levels in arcane trickster.

Now for a big question:
Magic: what system do you intend to use. Are you going for the Vancian spell slots, the universal spell points, the hp draining system, skill use, bio-magic? This will be a important choice, and I hope that this turns out well. Who knows, maybe we'll see you on the list of successful 3.75 editions.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Your little synopsis at the beginning made me think that perhaps someone should collect all of the variant/revamped/etc. systems on the board in one place for easy reference--you know, "If you want X style for homebrew, see homebrew system Y."

Anyway, your goals look worthwhile, and I fully support the emphasis on Rule of Cool. I'm working on a revamp of my own at the moment, or I'd pitch in and work some things up, but I can of course comment on classes and such that you write up.

[acedrow]

I really like the idea of adopting the skill trees, and inter-class-customization of 4e into 3.5 (that was pretty much the only aspect I liked about it before I dropped my 4e Players Handbook off at a used bookstore), it seems like you have a very clear image of what you want to accomplish, and I'd like to see where you go with this.

[alchemyprime]

Welcome to the club! This looks like a decent set of criteria, so how do you intend to fulfil them? Mind if I "adopt" ideas that I like?

Now, I like the idea of classes being able to follow different paths, I did put it in right after the normal classes, the VARIANT CLASSES. But paths sound good, what I really want to play is a magical rogue who doesn't have to tek levels in arcane trickster.

Now for a big question:
Magic: what system do you intend to use. Are you going for the Vancian spell slots, the universal spell points, the hp draining system, skill use, bio-magic? This will be a important choice, and I hope that this turns out well. Who knows, maybe we'll see you on the list of successful 3.75 editions.

I use... a variant of Vancian.

0 is always At Will. Beyond that its vancian, except that only your three highest spell levels (to a max of 4th) have slots. Below that you have Recharges and (for 1st eventually) At Wills. That's right. When you get 7th level spell slots, your 1sts become WHENEVER YOU DAMN WELL PLEASE!

"I wanna cast Magic Missile. A thousand times. I'll take a thousand rounds, but that's okay. I can do that."

As for your "Magical Rogue" idea...
Rogue Talents allow for magic, as do the Racial Advancements (but with certain schools tied to certain races). So... you play a drow rogue or gnome rogue, expect a lot of spell fun from that.

Alternatively, you can always multiclass into a casting class, but rogues will get a little magical oomf. If they so choose, of course. They can also easily do whatever they want within rogue.

I need to finish Warlord, Wizard, Warlock, Occultist and Paladin before I revise the Barbarian, Rogue and Fighter (they need more oomph). Then I will release it as an Alpha PDF.

I will admit. I didn't do all the work. I took some mechanics from Pathfinder, some from Stanzy's Ultimate D&D, some of Iron Heroes, some Eberron, some my own ideas. This is a system for the guys who bought all the D&D 3.5 books. This is the variant for the guy who goes "Hey, I wanna play a binder and a cleric, but I can't choose." And then they go "Play an Occultist" and they'll be all "YAY!"

Yes. That's really how we do it.

Lemme list the classes for you.
Barbarian: The savage. You can be a noble savage, a loud shouty barbarian, a ragebarian, there are quite a few options.
Bard: Draws a bit more on factotum. Gets weapon abilities, perform powers, spells. Think Captain America, Indiana Jones and Freddie Mercury as one character.
Battle Medic: The Healer after growing a beard. Gets a positive energy eldritch blast and can easily fight undead and demons more effectively now.
Cleric: The ward of a god or philosophy. They get more domains over all, but start weaker. Also, all domain and clerical powers use the same pool as Turn Undead.
Druid: Now customizable by environment and aspect of nature!
Fighter: Less feats (1 less), but now with full talent trees, weapon specializations, armor power, and the power to retrain his bonus feats at level up.
Monk: HE ACTUALLY DOES STUFF NOW!
Occultist: A binder/divine caster dual caster. He uses the vestiges to convince people he is a god and make a cult. Think cleric/binder/thrallherd.
Paladin: A warrior of a cause. Choose an order based off of G-N-E, smite modifications on L-N-C, and Boons based on WHATEVER YOU DANG WELL PLEASE. Also, your Source of Power, which you can pick. Wanna cast? Cast. Wanna bind? Bind. Wanna be a martial artist? Do so. Wanna use incarnum? Knock yourself out. Pick one and stick with it. We'll give you Auras for FREE!
Rangers: No longer Druid Light. Now they are essentially bounty hunters, protectors, and have a good amount of Swordsage mixed in. Using some of the Disciplines here on the boards.
Sorcerer: Hey. You know how you have magical blood? IT HAS MECHANICAL BENEFITS NOW. Sorcerers: The Monstrous Arcanist.
Warlock: They make deals for power. They can be themed around Elementals, Fiends, Fey, Celestials, Dragons, or Aberrations.
Warlord: An Aura/Martial Artist class. They work off the principal of "Inspiring" and of "Being Awesome."
Wizard: The Smart Arcanist. The can make their own spells. I REPEAT: RESEARCHING SPELLS HAS MECHANICS NOW. THANK YOU FAX! And they also get bonuses based on their schools (ie. Necromancers are Necromancery, Diviners are Diviney, Frost Mages are Frosty).


So those are what the classes will look like when they are done.

[Anonymouswizard]

I
Monk: HE ACTUALLY DOES STUFF NOW!
But, but, but, but, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! It denies the first law of character creation: avoid the monk. do you want to suck?

What sort of stuff, run up walls, cast divine spells, cast arcane spells, track, steal, any of the above?

[alchemyprime]

But, but, but, but, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! It denies the first law of character creation: avoid the monk. do you want to suck?

What sort of stuff, run up walls, cast divine spells, cast arcane spells, track, steal, any of the above?

Track, run up walls, use ki abilities (similar to vestige powers, but picked at level up), steal, punch through walls, force poisons he's been hit with into his galbladder and force it into a hit in the future. Give himself DR, jumping over other enemies. Very wuxia, anime influenced Monk, without Martial Maneuvers, unlike Rangers, Warlords and some Paladins.

[Dante & Vergil]

Wizard: The Smart Arcanist. The can make their own spells. I REPEAT: RESEARCHING SPELLS HAS MECHANICS NOW. THANK YOU FAX! And they also get bonuses based on their schools (ie. Necromancers are Necromancery, Diviners are Diviney, Frost Mages are Frosty).

I would like a link to the bolded, if you don't mind.:smalltongue:

Also, if anyone needs to see variant magic systems/spellcasting classes, I have quite a few from my scourings of the Inter- I mean Zendikar, and had to fight life and limb for them so be grateful if you see them at all!! (I'm kidding, you can ask to see them and I'll get them up, though it may take a while as there are a lot of them.)

[alchemyprime]

I would like a link to the bolded, if you don't mind.:smalltongue:

Also, if anyone needs to see variant magic systems/spellcasting classes, I have quite a few from my scourings of the Inter- I mean Zendikar, and had to fight life and limb for them so be grateful if you see them at all!! (I'm kidding, you can ask to see them and I'll get them up, though it may take a while as there are a lot of them.)

Its actually a modified version of an old version of Fax's Sorcerer.

[Dante & Vergil]

A modified version of the old sorcerer? Was the old sorcerer any different fromt the one Fax has now?

[alchemyprime]

... I dunno... It was only a month and a half ago. Its probably the same one, except I've allotted Slot Costs.

[alchemyprime]

Currently working on some additions to the Fighter: Talents. Every odd numbered level gives you a bonus feat and a talent. At first you can only learn Least Talents. At 11th level, the Lesser Talents become available and then at 17th, Greater Talents are available.

These are a work in progress, but hopefully these will give the fighter some much needed oomph.

Oh, and those even numbered levels? Armor Training, Weapon Tricks, Weapon Training, Art of War abilities and Warcraft abilities are gained then.

SAY NO TO DEAD LEVELS!

Well, I give you Fighter Talents. Enjoy.

Talents (Ex): Talents are abilities fighters figured out from skirmishes and scuffles, not from theory. Talents come in three flavors: Least, Lesser and Greater. A fighter may use each talent as often as the talent says. You can always take a weaker talent for that level. All ability rolls for Talents are 1d20 + ½ your Fighter level + the modifier of the relevant ability. The Talent will list the ability score it needs.


Least Talents:
Dust Cloud: Once per encounter as a standard action, you may kick up dust to obscure vision. The dust cloud covers a 20ft by 20ft area and lasts for 10 rounds The dust obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can’t use sight to locate the target.*
Razzle Dazzle: This is an at-will talent. You spend a standard action. Your next melee attack also Dazzles the target for 1 minute. They can attampt a Fortitude Save to negate this. This is an Intelligence based talent.
Shake it Off: As a standard action, the fighter may reroll any one saving throw for an ongoing effect that he already failed. He may use this ability once per round.
Sure Shot: Once per encounter, you may use a swift action to make the range for your next ranged attack go out to line of sight. Treat all of your damage dice as if you have rolled a 1 for this attack, but you are granted a +20 to your attack roll.
Thickened Blood: Once per encounter as a standard action, the fighter grants himself DR 2/bludgeoning for 1 round per level of fighter the character possesses.

Lesser Talents:
Plow: At the start of your first turn, you may move yourself adjacent to one foe. The movement is considered and treated as a charge, but with range 3x your movement score and ignoring any difficult terrain or obsticals. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity this round.
Steelbolt: Once an encounter, spend your swift action. Your next attack is against every enemy withing a 30 ft line of you. For each one you hit, deal your weapon damage. You can use a Duel skill with this talent.

Greater Talents:
System Shock (Ex): Once per Encounter, you may choose to attempt to just deal massive damage. You must make a successful touch attack to hit. A miss does not expend a use of this power. Any creature hit takes 2d6 points of damage per character level (to a maximum of 40d6). A creature that makes a successful Fortitude save is partially affected, taking only 5d6 points of damage. The save is Strength based.

[alchemyprime]

UPDATES

Class progressions:


Barbarian: First draft done, but definately need a second draft.

Bard: I will be turning Bard into another dual caster. Arcane/Martial, Arcane/Psionic or Arcane/Binding will be your options.

Battle Medic: I really need to increase the power of this guy. He's already a tier 3 class by normal standards, but he needs some more spell options. More healing, maybe a touch of transmutation and summoning. All the non-damaging battle powers (grease, sleep, etc.)

Cleric: I'm pretty happy with cleric. I say we keep him as is, maybe expand the Clerical Order powers slightly.

Druid: ... I made him weaker... I brought him down from Tier 1 to Tier 2. Wait... I'm aiming at everyone being tier 2 or 3. This is good.

Fighter: Working on Second Draft. Fighter Talents are coming along well. I think his second draft will be done within a day or two.

Monk: Yeah... she's going to need some help. Important steps: give them more stuff to do. Give them even more stuff to do. Find better art than the PHB I had.

Occultist: Capstone ability is bugging me and I need to make the spell list, but beyond that I like it.

Paladin: Just need to add in the Sources, and add in more Orders, Boons and Focuses. So I have the outline, I just need to color by number.

Ranger: Actually, I'm pretty happy here. Second draft may add in a bit more martial adept stuff, but having Ranger be the new Swordsage is something I like.

Rogue: I want to expand his options and maybe add a little more dakka. More bonus feats? Perhaps a path to look at.

Sorcerer: I gotta finish the Improvise write up and Sorcerer is ready to go!

Warlock: I haven't even started here besides a black Warlock.doc. I know what I want here. I just haven't gotten anything on paper. But I did Occultist in just under a week, so... I think I can do this.

Warlord: Wow... I have a rough draft and the Marshal class and the Warblade to build on. A dual caster with a d12 hit die sounds fun, especially since I'm giving him Martial/Aura as his casting. So... he's mainly a walking Shammy Totem from WoW.

Wizard: I need to fill out the rest of the school training and the Research ability needs to be copy pasta in.



As for 3.5 classes I didn't address...


Samurai: ???

Ninja: Elemental themed assassin build rogue? I guess?

Sohei: Do we need him as more than a Paladin variant?

Psion: I'm seeing something similar to how I have wizard.

Wilder: An emotion themed wilder wounds fun. Very Blackest Night. THE POWER OF LOVE COMPELS YOU! LOVE ME! LOVE ME! Now I'm sad... enjoy the acid rain of my torment... *sigh*

Psychic Warrior: ... What? You really thought I wouldn't use him?

Soulknife: I'm thinking making him a Psionic/Martial class. Another dual class, I know, but still... he could use the dakka, no?

Incarnate: We need a main Incarnum class. As it is, we have the Sub Casting Paladin.

Totemist: See Incarnate.

Soulborn: You're in paladin too, missy. Tough luck.

Binder: He needs some love down the road.

Shadowcaster: ... Must... avoid... compulsion... to make... into... wizard variant!

Truenamer: WOW... This one will be TOUGH... so tempted to avoid touching with two ten foot poles that used to be a ladder... But he has requests... YOU'RE GOING TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST TRUENAMER! I love ya, but dang if your mechanics aren't the wobbliest thing since the Weebles.

Dragonfire Adept: Hi Draconic Warlock. What're you doing outta you cage?

Dragon Shaman: You've been absorbed into Warlock, Sorcerer and Paladin. Suck it up.

Knight: Why do we need knights when we have Paladins of every alignment and Warlords? In fact... Warlord is essentially Knight/Warblade/Marshal, so...

Beguiler/Warmage/Dread Necro: You'll get your time, buds. Don't worry.

Wu Jen: You're a wizard school now. Live with it.

Favored Soul: You'll get yours one day, man.

Shugenja: Wow... really want to incorperate him into Favored Soul.

Spirit Shaman: I freaking hate Spirit Shaman... Though the idea of combinign Shaman, Dragon Shaman and Spirit Shaman into Shaman sounds nice. Aura/Divine caster with totem themed powered.

Swashbuckler: Let's get you back into Fighter and Rogue where you belong...

Hexblade: Has been incorperated into Warlock and Paladin and will be mixed into Beguiler.

Healer: You're the battle medic now. Get off this list.

Swordsage: You'll return, old friend. Though Ranger is now your stepson.

Warblade: You'll come back too buddy. Plus you kind of exist already in the Warlord and Ranger.

Crusader: You stay away! You're in paladin now, you hear me? YOU'RE PALADIN NOW!

Complete Psionic: ... Um... look, Complete Psionic classes... we had a fun time, really we did... but you're being Liquidized. Lurk, ypu're a Soulknife build. Ardent, welcome to Psion. Divine Mind, you don't even have a place here, but Wilder will carry your torch. Erudite, you're just a psion variant. Now get off your pedestal.

Savant: You live on in all dual caster classes, my friend.

Mountebank: Rogue kinda absorbed you too, buddy.

Jester: You're a bard build. Sorry.

Urban Druid: Really? You really thought you'd be more than a druid build? HA! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Assassin: Wow, assassin... you're a rogue path... please... don't kill me... I have a wife and kids... in Harvest Moon at least...



So yeah, that's the class list.

Now for the races I'm including right off the bat


Humans, duh.
Aasimar
Changelings
Dromites, sans LA
Drow, sans LA.
Dwarves, now 20% more dwarfy!
Elves
Gnomes
Halflings
Half-Drow (mechanically different than Half-Elves!)
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Maenads
Shifters (with Saurian built in!)
Warforged

Also, at 2nd level and every 4 levels there after, you get a +1 to a skill from your Racial Skill List.
At 3rd and every 4 thereafter (except 11th...) you get a +1 to one of the two stats your race favors (Humans, Half-Elves, Half-Drow and Changelings all can pick whatever.)
At 5th and every 4 levels thereafter, you get to pick a new Racial Ability your race qualifies for (like Dwarves getting Energy Resistance (Cold) or DR 2/Adamantine, or Elves getting Spell Resistance or a +2 to Initiative, or Gnomes getting Color Spray 1/day. Humans get a nice list to pick off of too. Luck Points!)

So yeah. Just some teasers on how races will work now. Build a race! Build your class! Make your character as they are in your mind!


So yeah. Any thoughts on that?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So yeah. Any thoughts on that?

Not really...not without a link to what you've actually done.

[alchemyprime]

Not really...not without a link to what you've actually done.

Fair enough. ... I'm almost done with the fighter... once I'm done, I'll load up his PDF.

... While we're on the subject, anyone have any good art of a fighter? And if its a female, one with... I dunno... reasonable armor?

(This armor rule I won't care so much about with other classes, but paladin, warlord and fighter it will grind my gears.)

[acedrow]

Hey alch, do you have a website, or other place where you're bringing together your rules? Besides the forum, that is.

[Roderick_BR]

I want classes that I can build
I want classes that definitely fit a niche (skillmonkey assassin Rogues, pure power fighters, paladins are warriors of a cause, etc.)
I want to follow Rule of Cool.

You won me on these alone :)
I'll be waiting to see how it'll come out.

[alchemyprime]

Hey alch, do you have a website, or other place where you're bringing together your rules? Besides the forum, that is.

Not yet. Once I have things ready (meaning my classes are done) I'll set up a wiki. Or at least have PDFs on my 4shared account. But as of now, its just here.

And Roderick, what's your favorite class? Maybe I'll post that up a little faster for ya.

[Roderick_BR]

Not yet. Once I have things ready (meaning my classes are done) I'll set up a wiki. Or at least have PDFs on my 4shared account. But as of now, its just here.

And Roderick, what's your favorite class? Maybe I'll post that up a little faster for ya.
Paladin. I guess you'll want to finish the fighter and the cleric first, though.

[alchemyprime]

Paladin. I guess you'll want to finish the fighter and the cleric first, though.

Cleric is done, fighter almost. And paladin is perhaps the most customizable class we have.

Pick 1 of 4 types of spell casting (Divine, Binding, Incarnum or Martial Maneuvers)
Pick auras.
Pick your paladin order (5 per alignment, you pick 1)
Pick focuses every time you get another smite per encounter.
Pick boons (Mounts, turns, other powers)

I think paladin is coming out really well. He was going to get posted after the big 4 (Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard).

[alchemyprime]

Okay, for all of you to see, I give you:

THE SORCERER IN BROWSER! (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23698065)
THE SORCERER DOWNLOAD! (http://www.4shared.com/file/165738642/4637286e/Sorcerer.html)

The first class I finished.

You'll notice a lot of stuff already existed in this. In fact, the Heritages were just me simplifying the Heritage feats, the Bloodlines were all from (I wanna say Crystal Keep... that site with the weird pdfs) though I modified them, and the talents were all ACFs for familiar.

And the Improvise System was me modifying the Sorceror from Fax Celeste (who if I mispell your name, a thousand apologies). The art... I sadly cannae remember where it was from. I beleive I gained it from a VERY early edition of the Ultimate D&D Necromancer.

Also, I experimented with the formatting and realized standard fit best. Sorry, the tables ended up getting split up a bit.

Oh, and the dice in the Spells per day table:

The numbers are Spell Slots per day.
The dice (the XdY+Z) is recharge rounds. After casting a spell of this level, you must wait that many rounds before you can use that spell level again.

When it says At Will... its At Will. If you have the actions to spend, you can cast it.


But I hope you all enjoy this update. Next up will be Fighter!

[alchemyprime]

... In what experts are calling a "shameless bump"...

Update: Just filling out more Fighter Talents for the Fighter. So far, he does things like no other class.

The Tanks:
Fighter: The Debuffing tank. He makes all of his enemies suck.
Paladin: The bit of both tank. Relies heavily on smites to do this. Thankfully, he's getting them per encounter now (a trend I noticed other designers are doing).
Warlord: The Buffing Tank. Yes, he's the tank. But he's also your friend. He makes every team mate better.

Looked over the classes today. I don't think anyone besides monk is below Tier 3 now. Fighter is a very high 3, maybe even a low 2. Paladin is definately a low 2. Warlord... he's not even half done, so I can't judge that.

Cleric and Wizard are still Tier 1. Sorcerer is a much higher 2 I'd say. And druid is following suit.

I have no idea why I'm telling you all this. >.>


MAGIC! Right, magic...

Okay. I know I detailed it above so...

RESERVE POINT AND HIT POINTS!

Why use set hit points? Makes things easier. No more "my barbarian has less hp than the wizard, stupid dice" unless the DM wants it that way.

How'd I get the starting numbers? I orignally tried 2x Max, but it was still a little low. I tried 3x, but... only Low BAB classes felt right at that number. Barbarians were CRAZY with 36 hp at 1st! And fighters with 30? A little high to start. But I liked Wizards and Sorcerers (okay, at the time it was JUST sorcerers) with 18. So I messed around, and eventually realized that 2x Max + 6 was the best result.

And Reserve Points? I made it 1.5 times. So I beleive starting should be 3x + 8, and level up be "2x Average" instead of "Average + .5" like HP was.

I like these numbers. Makes leveling up easy.

Why use reserve points? Well... I figure with more HP, that's all well and dandy, but it doesn't really help my biggest problem: clerics don't heal enough. So I figured, let the characters heal themselves on top of it.

Oh, and we have 5 saves now... hehehe... result of using "Players Roll All The Dice"

Defence is replacing AC. Calculated the same, except the 10 standard is 1d20.
Fort, Ref and Will are the same EXCEPT! You may pick the higher of (Str or COn for Fort saves, Dex or Int for Ref and Wis or Cha for Will). I liked this. Makes games a little tougher. Also, makes folks a little less MAD.

The last save is Death. It's a simple d20 roll. Only a few places give you a bonus. When dying, roll above 10 to stabilize, roll below 10 three times and you die, and roll a Natural 20 and reset to 0 then spend Reserve Points to get back up (to a max of 1/4 total hp).

And if you heal over your Max HP, you can then start healing RP. Unless that's at max too. Greedy person.

PROFICIENCIES

Your armor and sheilds are no different, except if you wear armor, you use that bonus over your Defense bonus for you Defense save.

Weapons are group based now. And we have a few new weapon groups: some racial ones (Drow, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Orc) as well as Rifles and Guns.

And yes, with Rifles and Exotic Weapon PRoficiency, some BFGs become available.

SKILLS
Skills work like this now: No more 4x at 1st level. No more points each level. You get skills at 1st level in your class.
If you spend a Skill Point on a skill it is TRAINED. If you don't, it is UNTRAINED.
If a class is on your class skill list, you get a +3 bonus to that skill.
When you multiclass into a new class, you get half their skill points, and all their class skills get a +1. Even if you already had it (so a Fighter 1/Paladin 1 would have a +4 to Intimidate, without their Trained or Untrained bonuses)
Trained skills have Ranks equal to your Character level.
Untrained skills have a bonus equal to 1/2 your character level. This goes away in favor of the Ranks if you train in it.
So that Fighter 1/Paladin 1? If he trained in Intimidate, he has a +6 bonus before he adds his Charisma mod. If he's a paladin, IT BETTER BE HUGE! (Paladins are based on Charisma, Wisdom and STrength, primarily.)

AFTERTHOUGHTS
Hope to have fighter up tomorrow or by monday. Also realizing how silly it is to post classes before races. Oh well. If you REALLY want to use them once I have the ones you want up, use standard 3.5 races until then. Though, honestly, the Pathfinder versions are a little closer to what I ended up with.

Oh, humans?

Add in a +1 to Fortitude, Reflex and Will saves.
Get 1 Weapon Proficiency (not a whole group, just an extra weapon. Any one.)
You extra Skill Point each level is now an extra Skill Point at 1st level (to Train a skill) and you can pick one skill to be a class skill for your first class, even if its not normally.
You pick a favored class at 1st and stick with it. Favored Classes are no longer "no XP penalty" because no one gets that. Favored classes are "+1 HP per level and you can train one extra Class Skill in it" Bit more fun.

And on that note, I leave you with a pictue of Perry the Platypus. Curse you, Phineas and Ferb Marathon!


http://www.edugizelle.co.za/Sepelong/perry-the-platypus.jpg

[alchemyprime]

Alright folks, it's a little later than I wanted, but THE FIGHTER IS HERE!

In Browser (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23790313/Fighter)
For Download (http://www.4shared.com/file/167339684/b753f60d/Fighter.html)

The fighter... well... I had to give him more powers.

Bonus Feats: 10
Art of Battle: 5
Warcraft: 5
Talents: 13
Veteran
Shift Tactics
Weapon Training: 4
Weapon Mastery
Armor Training: 4
Armor Mastery

All by 20th level. At first, its +6 Defense Bonus, +1 BAB, Good Fort, Poor Ref and Will, a Bonus Feat and Least Talent.

Talents... are somewhere between a warlock invocation and a martial maneuver.

Hm... what class should come next? I want you folks to vote which class I should upload next:

Barbarian
Bard
Battle Medic
Cleric
Druid
Monk
Occultist
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

What sounds fun next?

[Shmee]

My vote goes for the Barbarian....

... naturally...

[Anonymouswizard]

I vote for wizard.

And for HP? I stole something from the Starship trooper RPG (d20 style), Where everyone begins with their constitution in hp and gets 1 or 2 extra points each level. What I did was to give everyone their constitution+a bonus from their class at 1st level, and then a half the 1st level bonus+their constitution modifier after that. So a 1st level barbarian and a 1st level wizard both with 10 constitution get 20 and 12 respectively. The bonuses went like this: Barbarian 10/5, fighter/paladin/ranger/defender 8/4, cleric/druid/monk 6/3, bard/thief 4/2, and wizards/sorcerers/warlocks/wizard variants 2/1. So a 20th level wizard with 10 con has 10+2+19hp (31 hp), while a 20th level barbarian with 10 con has 10+10+95hp (115hp), while a fighter with 10 con has 10+8+76hp (94hp), a cleric with 10 con has 10+6+57hp (73hp), and the thief with 10 con has 10+4+38hp (52 hp). This means that the meat shields have a nice large amount of hp that scales quickly, while wizards have a low amount at all levels. Looking at this I might go back and change the numbers to be slightly higher for thieves, bards and primary arcane spellcasters, so they can survive more at high levels (need a way to make the defender good at defending, maybe a 5th level ability that lets him taunt as a free action).

Edit: the sorcerers spells per day look a bit weird at the high levels, is that spells per encounter the roll?

[alchemyprime]

I vote for wizard.

And for HP? I stole something from the Starship trooper RPG (d20 style), Where everyone begins with their constitution in hp and gets 1 or 2 extra points each level. What I did was to give everyone their constitution+a bonus from their class at 1st level, and then a half the 1st level bonus+their constitution modifier after that. So a 1st level barbarian and a 1st level wizard both with 10 constitution get 20 and 12 respectively. The bonuses went like this: Barbarian 10/5, fighter/paladin/ranger/defender 8/4, cleric/druid/monk 6/3, bard/thief 4/2, and wizards/sorcerers/warlocks/wizard variants 2/1. So a 20th level wizard with 10 con has 10+2+19hp (31 hp), while a 20th level barbarian with 10 con has 10+10+95hp (115hp), while a fighter with 10 con has 10+8+76hp (94hp), a cleric with 10 con has 10+6+57hp (73hp), and the thief with 10 con has 10+4+38hp (52 hp). This means that the meat shields have a nice large amount of hp that scales quickly, while wizards have a low amount at all levels. Looking at this I might go back and change the numbers to be slightly higher for thieves, bards and primary arcane spellcasters, so they can survive more at high levels (need a way to make the defender good at defending, maybe a 5th level ability that lets him taunt as a free action).

Edit: the sorcerers spells per day look a bit weird at the high levels, is that spells per encounter the roll?


Spells work like this.

If you see a NUMBER, that is spells per day.

If you see a DIE ROLL, that is a cool down time. Meaning that to cast that spell level again, you must wait that many rounds.

If you see AT WILL that means... its At Will. Duh. You have infinity slots.

0 level spells are always at will, as per Pathfinder.

So a 20th level Sorcerer has 6 9th level spells per day, 6 8th level spells per day, 6 7th level spells per day. He must wait 1d8 rounds between casting 6th level spells, 1d6+1 rounds between casting 5th level spells, 1d6 rounds between 4th level spells, 1d4 rounds between 3rd and 2nd leel spells and can cast 0s and 1sts as long as he has the actions to do so.,


So if the Sorcerer cast MEteor Swarm, he loses 1 spell slot of 9th level that day. If he casts Lightning Bolt he must wait 1d4 round before he can cast another Lightning Bolt, or a Fireball or any 3rd level spell. But the other 9 levels (0-2nd, 4th-9th) are still available to cast in that time.
If you roll a 1, you have 1` round without that slot. It does not come back next round.

So rolling a 3 on the 1d4 is
Round 1: Cast
Round 2: No spell
Round 3: No spell
Round 4: No spell
Round 5: You can cast again.

Also, he can burn slots to do metamagic. Let's say Mr Sorc 20 needs a level 7 slot to cast a Maximized Shout or some reason, he can count that as a 4th and a 3rd or a 6th and a 1st (spending a slot and making 1st unreachable), or just a 7th. He CANNOT cast it as two 3rds and a 1st, and just take double recharge from the 3rd.

If you spend a 1st level for Metamagic and it is already At Will, you DO NOT get the slot back next turn. You wait 1d3 rounds.

Yeah it feels MMO ish. Shush. I like it like that.

[Athaniar]

This looks promising indeed. Until I stumbled upon this thread, I didn't realize we even needed a d20 like this. Now, I can't understand why this hasn't been done earlier. Do continue making this. Also, I vote Paladin.

[The Demented One]

You're probably going to want to take a look at Exalted's stunting mechanics.

EDIT: Actually, based on your first post, it also sounds like you'd probably enjoy Exalted in general.

[The-Mage-King]

...This is awesome...

[alchemyprime]

I realized after a while that implementing every variant I like would involve rehauling the classes (blame Draken for that, actually). So I started with the Barbarian, and Healer and Bard.

Why start there? I dunno. Seemed right.

Eventually I just did an archive binge of every d20 book I owned that wasn't setting specific. I went nuts. I even read a few setting books like the Eberron and Forgotten Realms books. And the Dragonlance CS and Pathfinder and the old Sztanzy Ultimate D&D, and a little of the Tombowings continuation. And Fax Celeste's d20r, and then I started compiling.

Sorcerer was pushed ahead by Gwyn Chan 'r Gwyll, who's favorite class is sorcerer (or was, until I told him about my progress on Occultist and Paladin. Now he's conflicted.

Moosefisher kept pushing forward Fighter and Warlord (he wants to play Kamina) so they got moved ahead.

I wanted ranger to be awesome, but I hate the "Druid Lite" ranger. So ranger spells are all Druid spells now. Rangers get maneuvers. Its cooler like that. Makes the fighting aspect cooler.

Also. I hate theurges. HATE.

HATE!

HATRED!

ALCHEMYPRIME YOU HAVE MUST RAGE TOWARDS THEURGES. WELCOME TO THE d20 BRANCH OF THE RED LANTERN CORPS.

No thanks, I'm waiting for the Blue or Green ring. Or Orchid, if it pops up. >.> My DA followers know about that.

Anyway...

Theurges: You're GONE. I'll be making core classes to fill your roles (I'm also not too keen on PrCs... but they may return. We've had ideas.).
Casting types:
Arcane
Aura (the only casting without a Magic Rating)
Binding
Divine
Incarnum
Martial Maneuvers
Psionics

And the classes with the combos!
Arcane/Binding: Bard
Arcane/Martial: Bard
Aura/Binding: Paladin
Aura/Divine: Paladin
Aura/Incarnum: Paladin
Aura/Martial: Paladin AND Warlord
Binding/Divine: Occultist

I know. That's it for now. I do plan on making more. Guys, you're getting 3 binding classes. Not as tough as Binder, but still... dude. 3 binding classes. Two tanks and an adept with binding. You're getting an Arcane/Martial class. You're getting two classes with Auras. Constant bonuses guys. Really.

And I do plan on making more dual casters in the future, but I want the classes I started on out there first. Also, Binder will come. I just wanna see how well people react to Bindadin, Occultist and Binding Bard first.


So yeah, thank your fellow playgrounders (Draken, Shmee, Tialait, Moosefisher, and Gwyn Chan 'r Gwll) for egging me along on this. Thank you comic readers for getting the Blackest Night references.

And I'd like some votes. EGG ME ON PLAYGROUND!

Bard needs some love, but so do my finals. Its like I'm in a Finals Crisis. Hm... I'll do my studying a bit later. I'll work on Paladin and Bard while I listen to Cake and Jonathan Coulton. They'll be up a little later this week. Wizard needs a LOT of work. So far only Diviners, Abjurers and Conjurers are done, and we know we all wanna be Necromancers and Transmuters.

I mean, we do, right?

Right?

Guys, I need some reassurance! AAAHHHH!


Okay, I'm better now.

This is Alchemyprime, your schizotypal, obsessive personality, homebrewing friend.

[Anonymouswizard]

Drop the evoker, or make him work at high levels (+2 damage per die?).

[Lady Tialait]

I have been summoned! or something like this.

i would like to see your Druid Alch. So get it done. *cracks her whip*

Thus far, I give this my seal of approval

http://frostii.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/seal-of-approval.jpg

[alchemyprime]

Drop the evoker, or make him work at high levels (+2 damage per die?).

Evokers will get lots of fun little tricks.

Perhaps my favorite is that there are no Banned schools, just Opposed Schools.

So if you choose Necromancy as an opposed school, you just have a -1 MR with those spells. (MR is Magic Rating. It replaces Caster Level.)


Also, there will be three types of paths for wizard:

Mage/Universalist (The everything wizard)
Specialist (School wizard)
Collegecian ( A wizard from a wizard college, their special list is smaller, but more focused. Like Frost Mages, Plant Mages, etc. They'll have cooler names, I swear.)

Sound good to you?

[The-Mage-King]

I vote wizard next.

[Moose Fisher]

My goal isn't Kamina, it's non-casters that don't get shoved out of the limelight by casters.

So, let's see some more non-casters, like barbarian or monk.:smallbiggrin:

[Anonymouswizard]

Yes it does. I will be satisfied if only the generalist wizard gets done for now.

[alchemyprime]

Because Tia was harrassing me...


THE DRUID!

Yes, you finally have a divine caster to play, people!

IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23850789/Druid)
FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/168434775/5f2928ef/Druid.html)

Now, I should mention, all my downloads are .pdf format, and I use Scribd for my In Browser method. So you all should go update your Adobe Readers while you're at it.

So... I guess you could have a party of a Druid, Fighter and Sorcerer now...

Hm... well Cleric is ALMOST done. And Bard is pretty close. Fun Fact: The Weapon Tricks the Fighter has were originally a Bard mechanic. Bard still has the Utility aspect of them, but not the bonuses, as that was originally in fighter.

So... off to work. And updates may be staggered until Wednesday. After that, school is done til January, so I'll have more time in December to finish up more classes.

[Stormthorn]

I was wondering if you could put links in the OP also so i dont have to dig through the text of the whole page each time.

[alchemyprime]

I was wondering if you could put links in the OP also so i dont have to dig through the text of the whole page each time.

Working on that. Just lemme set that up... And done.

[Athaniar]

The druid is also awesome. A high level of customization leads to more interesting classes, in my opinion. I like that you also seem to think so.

[alchemyprime]

Okay guys. Like I said, I have finals next week, so the fact I'm getting any of these done is amazing.

I really wanted Paladin or Wizard to be next, or even Bard.

But we'll have to settle... for cleric...

IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23882090/Cleric)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/168993473/dff50045/Cleric.html)

Cleric: Overall power increased, turn undead cheese somewhat decreased by switching to Divine Power. Also, the Background will allow you to play a nice, pacifist priest or a zealous war priest or a cloistered monk all with the same class and have mechanics reflect it.

Okay, cloistered is just the UA variant... shut up....

[Shyftir]

For races I see no hobgoblin.


How can you claim to let Rule of Cool determine everything without any FREAKING HOBGOBLINS!!!

Hobs are one of the sweetest races lore wise. More ancient militaristic fallen empires than you'd dare shake a stick at.

I want you to take hobgoblins from "the race with the dumbest LA adjustment" to "the race that is totally cool but fits in well with everything else anyway."

That is all.

[alchemyprime]

For races I see no hobgoblin.


How can you claim to let Rule of Cool determine everything without any FREAKING HOBGOBLINS!!!

Hobs are one of the sweetest races lore wise. More ancient militaristic fallen empires than you'd dare shake a stick at.

I want you to take hobgoblins from "the race with the dumbest LA adjustment" to "the race that is totally cool but fits in well with everything else anyway."

That is all.

If you notice, Shyftir, I really don't have any monster races beyond drow. YET.

These are classes and races I'm just working on as I go. Personally, yes, hobgoblins are militaristic, but they always seemed so... boring to me. In Eberron they were okay, but me? I'll always think drow and ilithids are the coolest. Dunno why...

But hobgoblin will come. Eventually. Right now I wanna knock out the main 15 classes, then the 13 races (I think its 13... oh geez... can't remember...), and then the rules document (it's mostly a conversion deal). Then I will start adding more races and more classes. But for now, I just want to focus on a playable system.

Also... trying to make more barbarian powers. Something on par with the Fighter Talents. But used when being barbaric (read: Using Rage or similar ability).

Also...
POST REPLY 42! WOO-HOO!

[alchemyprime]

BARBARIANS! BARBARIANS BARBARIANS!

Yes, a class so sexy, I could only use women as the pictures (because all the male ones were Conan or Dave... :smallmad:), I present the Barbarian!

IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23907610/Barbarian) FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169380826/f3cb5767/Barbarian.html)

The Barbarian

Barbarism: Rage or one of five alternatives. Frenzy, Blood Oath, Fetish, Shouts or Tattoos
Special Abilities: Exactly what it says on the tin
Danger Sense: Trap Sense Plus!
Damage Reduction: Even bigger!
Hit Points: Dude! It gets 30 at 1st level! 30!
Barbaric Talents: Make Barbarism cooler! Expect a similar system for Paladins and smites! Note: The double indents require the single indent power above them to be taken. So to take Elemental Favortism, you need Elemental Barbarian, and you need Elemental Favortism to have Elemental Aspect. This was kept in mind with their design.
Uncanny Dodge: You need it!
Rough: Defense Against Diplomancy!


I hope y'all enjoy this!

[Shmee]

Yay! Barbarians! As for the pictures, at least you didn't put Red Sonja with the whole chain-mail bikini thing. Of course, you should have told me you wanted more barbarian pictures, and I would have pointed out my favourite barbarian of all times... Groo the Wanderer. (http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/g/groo.htm)

But yeah, perhaps you should update your class list so we could vote/egg you on to bring out another class?

Keep up the good work!

[alchemyprime]

Updated barbarian due to an editing error. Thank Moosefisher for catching it.

[alchemyprime]

Voting is now being counted.

I never said you guys can't vote for more than 1 class. But I will say you can't vote for the same class twice. Unless you're me. I vote for all of them a bajillion times.

My votes are cast.

So tell me what classes you wanna see, in order of importance, annouced classes first, then any ideas or adaptations you want to see or have me address!

Thanks Playgrounders!

[Dogmantra]

I approve. I'll be following this, and I therefore would like to see the Warlord, Warlock or Bard next.

[Athaniar]

I vote for the Paladin, Monk, and Occultist. Oh, and the Ranger. And the Rogue too, just because I can.

[alchemyprime]

Paladin is 80% finished.

Monk needs to be second drafted, but so far... honestly? Who would be insulted if I just mixed in Psychic Warrior. We all know you're gonna multiclass anyway.:smalltongue:

Warlord and Warlock are current blank .doc files. :smallbiggrin:

Occultist... is done except for two things: Capstone ability and spell list. All binders can bind everything, as long as vestige abilities don't conflict with alignment (like Eurynome can't have Lawful binders once her hammer becomes Anarchic. Well... she COULD. But it wouldn't be a good idea.

And for now, binder refers to Binding Bards, Binding Paladins and Occultists. As there is no "Binder" class yet...)


Bard is nearly done. I just need to add in his dual casting and he's done! He won't just straight Dual Cast like Paladin, Warlord or Occultist, but instead be able to pick and choose a few abilities: A soulmeld or two here, a vestige there, etc.

Don't expect a REALLY big update until after Wednesday. I have a lot of life to catch up on. But I would appreciate ideas, votes, and anything else yous can all throw at me.

[Dogmantra]

Warlord and Warlock are current blank .doc files. :smallbiggrin:

I still wanna see 'em! :smalltongue:

[Anonymouswizard]

Although I want to see the wizard, it is going to be best to do the rogue next. That way you are going to have one of each role.

[Moose Fisher]

Monk and Rogue, we must see your interpretations of the 4 basic roles.

[alchemyprime]

OH MY GOD OVER 1000 VIEWS!

Also, I figure... we have 4 classes. Let's start some playing.

RACES
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23940098/Prime-20-Races)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169931715/24446731/Prime20Races.html)
Some of these are the Pathfinder Beta races, some are full on upgrades. Includes Human, Aasimar, Changeling, Dromite, Drow Elf, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Half-Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Hobgoblin, Maenad, Shifter and Warforged. With pictures.

RACIAL ADVANCEMENT
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23940101/Racial-Advancement)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169932662/e616a18c/Racial_Advancement.html)

What is this? Quite simply, as you level up, your racial abilities get stronger. Sometimes a skill bonus, sometimes your ability adjustments, sometimes your racial abilities. You pick and choose racial powers like feats. It's pretty fun. Got my group excited.

VARIANT RULES
IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23936450/Prime20-Variant-Rules-Document-1)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/169837028/9aa0d2b3/Prime20_Variant_Rules_Document.html)

All the variants to play your character with. It's a HUGE document. 41 pages. Has all the background feats, all the major traits, etc. So much to tweak... it took forever. But this document was the reason I redid the races and classes.

*phew*

So, go, play, have fun. And keep voting and bumping the thread, folks!

Hope y'all enjoy it!

[alchemyprime]

MY OBSESSIVE PERSONALITY HAS DEMANDED I BUMP THIS THREAD TO THE TOP!

AND IN RETROSPECT, I AM FORCED TO ASK "WHY?"


Yep. Just a bump. Still, how's everyone liking everything. We good? Any other classes you're looking for perhaps? I know Monk and Rogue are wanted for some love. I am working on rogue, just also trying to do work and school and housework at the same time.

[Shmee]

I'm actually very curious to see how you will Primetize (new word there?) the Ranger class...

So yeah, 1 vote for the Ranger over here.

[The Tygre]

I'm curious; what changes do you plan to make to monsters? How does this all interact with Tome of Battle? And... uh... I've got nothing else.

I'm really looking forward to watching this system grow.

[Lady Tialait]

I'm curious; what changes do you plan to make to monsters? How does this all interact with Tome of Battle? And... uh... I've got nothing else.

I'm really looking forward to watching this system grow.

Sush you! Or he will give Manuvers to monsters.....and scare everyone.

[alchemyprime]

I'm curious; what changes do you plan to make to monsters? How does this all interact with Tome of Battle? And... uh... I've got nothing else.

I'm really looking forward to watching this system grow.

Tygre, Tygre, burning bright, in the forums of the night,
you ask me what monsters bring to the fight?
I rework CR, as well as sift
Through all the adventurer's newest gifts.
Monsters will built a similar way
and will make those "heroes" pay.
Reserve Points, more hit points, casting the same,
more feats, stronger skills, they will not be tame.
Give them a wench and they shall beat her
worse than I ruined this poem's meter.

Really? I'm reworking players first. Then I'll be making monsters reflect these changes. In the end, I hope to replace the wonky Challenge Rating system with a new Challenge Level system. Essentially, all the Players Levels added up should be within (number of party members) of all the monster's CLs added up. So a wyvern will be a challenge for (hopefully) 1 Level 6 adventuer, a boss for a 5, and an easy monster for a 7.

Also, yes... some monsters may be getting extra goodies... perhaps a few kobolds with some Shadow Hand maneuvers, some orcs with soulmelds, some dragons with tougher spells.

Oh. That is one thing I intend to do. When I stat up the monsters... expect them to fun to run.

Mr Tarrasque! Hello, welcome to our parlor! Hm... I see you took Toughness 6 times. Well, you do gain 16 HP by virtue of the new HP system alone, so lets elminate those. Here is your 864 Reserve Points. Oh, regeneration, that will be so useful!. Let's take those 6 toughnesses, give you some useful feats. Shape Soulmeld, perhaps an Improved Grab...

Yeah.

Monsters will be tough. And I will be (hopefully) finding artists to reflect that.

In the mean time, I advise DMs (Or PrimeDMs: Prime Dungeon Masters!) to look at a monster. Think about what you would toss as a Gestalt character. And keep that mentality for a while.

Also, working on rogue. May not be able to toss it in, but rogue... he's getting a nice trick or two. Rogues will feel a little bit like bard, but that's because I'm using rogue to test a system for the bard. So rogues will be fun. Also, once that is done... I pdf it, upload it, and post it. Now, any concerns? Comments? Playtesting reports in the last 24 hours? anything?

[Moose Fisher]

Careful, HP bloat is something that doesn't lead to fun. It slows down 4e too much and leaves a feeling of monotony/grinding.

Lots of HP for boss monsters is fine, but not for generic baddies.

[alchemyprime]

Careful, HP bloat is something that doesn't lead to fun. It slows down 4e too much and leaves a feeling of monotony/grinding.

Lots of HP for boss monsters is fine, but not for generic baddies.

That is true. The problem for most monsters is they HAVE Reserve Points. They just can't USE them.

So when it says "You drain X RP from the monster" you CAN.

Also, each monster it's just "Add HD + 6 or Hit Die + whichever is lower". So a kobold will get 7 hp, while a nymph gains 12. The most that'll get added is 18. And that's why we had to take the tarrasque's toughnesses (and he lost 2 total hp too! That's right, one less stab before wishing him away now.

Also... did the Posts per Page go up? I thought it was 25...

[Shmee]

As far as I could remember, it was always 30 posts per pages.

[alchemyprime]

Ah. Right then...

Well... rogues are coming along well.

Dudes...

Path of the assassin. Each step gets you 1d6 sneak attack, and each step after 1st, gets you abilities in addition. It's fun.

Also,

Everyone gets some sort of talent or path. Non casters are a bit more free in their choices than casters.

For example: Rogues and Wizards both have paths.

When a rogue gets to pick his two paths at 1st level, he can advance in any path. So an Assassin 1/Silvertongue 1 Rogue (both those are paths) at 3rd can advance one path. He can become an Assassin 2/ Silvertongue 1, an Assassin 1 / Silvertongue 2 or, maybe just advance to Assassin 1/Silvertongue 1/Expert 1, or Spy 1 or anything.

A wizard picks the Necromancer path at 1st. At 5th... her gets the second step. That's it. He can pick and choose his discipline paths (though he ALWAYS has 1st step in Arcanist), but rogue gets to pick and choose everything.

Just some explaination to bump the thread with. :smallwink:

[alchemyprime]

WAHOO! 1400 hits!

Also, finals are killing me. I will try to get rogue done soon though. He's 80% done, and I chose a drow for his main art work. Makes it look cool.

[dragonfan6490]

Alchemy, the effort you have put into this is amazing...I love your Druid and plan on using several of your rules for my own game. Keep up the good work and I will be anxiously awaiting your final work.

[Lady Tialait]

WAHOO! 1400 hits!

Also, finals are killing me. I will try to get rogue done soon though. He's 80% done, and I chose a drow for his main art work. Makes it look cool.

Alch! Don't you dare be with the making yourself sick!

Remember what happened last time you got overworked. The writers tryed to give you super powers...it didn't work. But you DID almost die.

spider xam...spider xam

[alchemyprime]

Alchemy, the effort you have put into this is amazing...I love your Druid and plan on using several of your rules for my own game. Keep up the good work and I will be anxiously awaiting your final work.

Thanks for the kind words. I'll be constantly updating the pdfs. Now, again, I leeched a LOT of good people, from Monte Cook, Rich, Dave Noonan, Fax Celeste, Sztanzy and many others. I'm not reinventing the wheel, just the car around it.

Also... expect great things from the wizard. And warlord, who's more of a Warblade/Marshal gestalt than anything.

[alchemyprime]

Alch! Don't you dare be with the making yourself sick!

Remember what happened last time you got overworked. The writers tryed to give you super powers...it didn't work. But you DID almost die.

spider xam...spider xam

I'll have you know, they tryed killing me off twice this season too with disease and failed. Antibiotics is fun.

Seriously though, they do write me like the normal version of Peter Parker, and it freaks me out... :( I'm not allowed to have cute redheads anymore either. The Universe and Joe Quesada work together man.

Also... I just want everyone's opinion: should Monk be the third MArtial Adept, alongside Warlord and Ranger? Or should it stay totally talent/skill/feat based, like Rogue and Fighter? I want opinions, because making Rogue a MArtial Adept will be a LOT easier than talents, but I'm torn on where I want it.

Also, I could just make it a psionic class, but I HATED 4e for doing that. But everyone uses Talashtora... hrm...

Thoughts folks?

[Lady Tialait]

I see the Monk having a psionic power advancement like the psionic warrior, with a bit of an edited list. AND having manuvers. Infact, in my home game, ToB is ONLY for Monks, I ripped the swordsage advancement and recharge and pasted it onto the Monk. It worked out...but doesn't bode well for the Monk.

Anyway, yeah, Monks are psionic...at least...mystical monks are.

[alchemyprime]

Hm...

Martial Maneuvers: Via training, you know how to extend the body's power OVER 9000!

Incarnum: Using the power of the soul to bring your power OVER 9000!

Psionics: FOcusing your mind to bring your power OVER 9000!

Ki: Combining mind, soul and body together. So... 27000? Or =<= 27003?

Wait...

The monk talent trees:

Martial Maneuvers The Path of the Body: Gives martial maneuvers at a rate similar to swordsage. Since Warlord = Warblade and Paladin = Crusader and Ranger = Swordsage/Warblade, I can see that being beneficial.

Psionic Power The Path of the Mind:Giving yourself a few psionic powers, like a lighter version of the psychic warrior list.

Chakra Binding The Path of the Soul: An improved version of the Soulblade (the bind your sword guy), you open chakras and bind your soul to it, closing that slot to magic item benefits, but opening yourself to new powers and abilities.

Ki/The Path of Enlightenment: Basic extraordinary monk powers. Perhaps even a few capstones based on your favored path. I could even see making additional Embodiment caps.

Embodiment of the Soul, Embodiment of the Body, Embodiment of the Mind, Embodiment of Enlightenment, Embodiment of the Deity, Embodiment of Speed (suicide attack that kills the Anti-Monitor? Maybe...)

[alchemyprime]

Bump power 70!

[Dante & Vergil]

I'm going to go with Wizard as my vote.

[alchemyprime]

I finished the rogue. I will upload it tomorrow. This connection sucks. School's is better.

[DracoDei]

I want to see Rangers... but only because I am curious as to what in the world make you think that Falling Anvil would be an appropriate option for them.

[alchemyprime]

I want to see Rangers... but only because I am curious as to what in the work make you think that Falling Anvil would be an appropriate option for them.

Well, I was looking for disciplines to tie to their weapon styles. Black Rain here on the boards fit gun style, and I found a few others for archery, wrestling, TWF and sword and board. But nothing seemed for one ranger archetype I love, the crazy old hermit in the woods. Falling Anvil seemed just right when mixed with Desert Wind and the Environment Variants (ie. Chilling SNow and the othe rchange then energy type variants).

I could see a Gnome Ranger (twf) with powers in Swamp and Falling Anvil (Swamp is the Acidic Desert Wind). He'd attack an intruder with a long sweeping path of his blades, come in close, and poke him in the eyes. The hunter would chase him, and the ranger would end up in drag, pretending to be a beautiful woman, woo the man, then as he's revealed do that classic "stunning kiss" Bugs does then do a cool midair combo.

It seemed so right to me, combining Yoda and Bugs. :smallbiggrin:

[DracoDei]

Ok... I guess if you have "Crazy Old Hermit" as an architype then that works.

[alchemyprime]

You know how this works! ROGUE TIME!

IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/24132240/Rogue)FOR DOWNLOAD (http://www.4shared.com/file/173658133/90588b1b/Rogue.html)

I know you can download from Scribd. But weaker connections hate Scribd in my experience. 4shared is simply a mirror.

Rogue... was mainly just Sztanzy's old rogue, I'll admit. I did tweak a few things, like make the dual path levels and increase bonus feats to not just be tricks. And modify for my rules (Defense save, contacts, rep, etc.)

But hey, now we have all four roles! Hooray!

Bard, Ranger and Occultist should all be coming soon. Wizard, Paladin and Monk all need some more work.

[Lady Tialait]

You will make ze Monk, or I will keel joo.

[alchemyprime]

You will make ze Monk, or I will keel joo.

Quit tempting me to invoke Godwin.

And Monk needs to built from the ground up. He'll take a while. Ranger and bard are mostly done, but Ranger needs gun rules to fish itself out. I do need to make monk soon, don't get me wrong. He and bard will be secondary psionicists, and monk will be ABLE TO SURVIVE WITHOUT MAGIC ITEMS! He can still USE them. But when everyone is stripped to their skivvies, cold, on the wall, he STILL can be at full power.

So yeah.

[Anonymouswizard]

If the wizard is not the next one posted I will kill you painfully with my most powerful spells.

But wait, if you don't post the wizard I won't have any SPD!! Nooo!!!!!!

And I'm not multiclassing into sorcerer. I have bad charisma. It's a dump stat.

[Apalala]

Haven't read the other material yet, so I'm not sure how balanced it is compared to everything else, but the path system of the rogue could use some tweaking, I think.

As it stands, you get 15 steps along the various paths, and each path is 10 steps long. So, the standard rogue will walk down one path and halfway down the other.

The problem is that the paths themselves vary quite a bit. Take the Assassin. Death Strike. Not bad for the 5th step. A very assassin-ish power.

Poison Resistance, on the other hand, hand out +2 versus poison at level 11 at the earliest and the upgraded version available at level 17 makes it all the way to...+5.

Maybe if you fundamentally changed the rules of poison, such that most monsters used it and things like a periapt of proof against poison--which costs 27,000 gp and grants IMMUNITY to poison--it would be worthwhile, but even at its best, the two abilities aren't exactly fun and are only as worthwhile as the dm makes them.

Or take Athletic Agility. What if a rogue wants to take Expert path, but has a higher strength than dexterity?

Barter on path of the silvertongue....At level 20, your wealth by level is 760,000, and this gives you a total discount on items of up to...2,000 gp. Even if it wasn't capped, it's all more bookkeeping for the rogue and not that cool.

Friends, the 5th step...lets you use a spell the wizard already has from level one.

I think the paths in general could use a boost, but I also think you should rework the way you walk down them. Say, you can take any step along a path, but each step has a minimum level. Bonuses like sneak attack would still stack based upon the total numbers of steps you've taken.

[alchemyprime]

If the wizard is not the next one posted I will kill you painfully with my most powerful spells.

But wait, if you don't post the wizard I won't have any SPD!! Nooo!!!!!!

And I'm not multiclassing into sorcerer. I have bad charisma. It's a dump stat.

Look. I know you want wizard. Here's the problem with that. IT ISN'T NEAR DONE! I am working on the mechanics behind specialists, academicians and mages. So far only conjurers (who are more summoners) and diviners and abjurers are done.

Monk, bard and ranger are much closer.



Haven't read the other material yet, so I'm not sure how balanced it is compared to everything else, but the path system of the rogue could use some tweaking, I think.

As it stands, you get 15 steps along the various paths, and each path is 10 steps long. So, the standard rogue will walk down one path and halfway down the other.

The problem is that the paths themselves vary quite a bit. Take the Assassin. Death Strike. Not bad for the 5th step. A very assassin-ish power.

Poison Resistance, on the other hand, hand out +2 versus poison at level 11 at the earliest and the upgraded version available at level 17 makes it all the way to...+5.

Maybe if you fundamentally changed the rules of poison, such that most monsters used it and things like a periapt of proof against poison--which costs 27,000 gp and grants IMMUNITY to poison--it would be worthwhile, but even at its best, the two abilities aren't exactly fun and are only as worthwhile as the dm makes them.

Or take Athletic Agility. What if a rogue wants to take Expert path, but has a higher strength than dexterity?

Barter on path of the silvertongue....At level 20, your wealth by level is 760,000, and this gives you a total discount on items of up to...2,000 gp. Even if it wasn't capped, it's all more bookkeeping for the rogue and not that cool.

Friends, the 5th step...lets you use a spell the wizard already has from level one.

I think the paths in general could use a boost, but I also think you should rework the way you walk down them. Say, you can take any step along a path, but each step has a minimum level. Bonuses like sneak attack would still stack based upon the total numbers of steps you've taken.


... Well, I rushed the Rogue. I took Ultimate rogue and tried to crank his power up a bit. I knew it needed more attention on the paths, I just wanted to get something out for people to have all 4 roles filled. I will be continuing to work on the rogue later.

Actually, the way i mentioned it worked is you can't advance the same path more than once per level. So you can't get to Assassin 2 at 1st level.

On poison: I'm a DM who beleives an encounter is a reaction to the players. Those kobolds you ran into? They'll be like Tucker's Kobolds more often then not. The wizard following you? He'll be paranoid, already took an antitoxin 35 minutes ago, etc.

On Expert: That was the result of a crash. I was going to make that an option to be Dexterity or Intelligence

On Barter: ... Um... um... LOOK A DISTRACTION!

Yeah, I can see your point. I kinda trusted Sztanzy a bit much with that one.

Friends: I will admit, its a little later than wizard, sorcerer or even fighter gets equivalent abilities. I think I'll jump that one around a bit.

I gotta get ready for my last final. Have fun everyone!

[Apalala]

Okay, read through the sorcerer and fighter to get a better grasp of the power level you're going for.

Wow! Sorcerer gets a massive boost. Recharge for spells is a truly massive boon to what is already a powerful class, and the sorcerous talents range from mediocre--Draconic Ray, Red--to broken--Draconic Ray, Silver.

Heritage abilities seem pretty minor, but aren't too bad.

With that huge boost to sorcerers, I was sort of expecting fighters to get some massive love. Hmm. Armor training and Veteran boost what the fighter was already more than capable of doing, having a high AC and Attack.

Weapon talents are a good idea, if unbalanced against each other.

Taking a look at Art of Battle, and....oh, hell no! Don't put in Foil Enemy. Don't don't don't. Just...don't. Do not do it. Nooooo. You have an ability that neutralizes 99% of the enemies in the game, right next to stuff like "add your dex mod to ranged attack damage rolls" and "give an adjacent ally +2 AC for one round".

Finally, talents. By and large, they are not worth it, mostly because they require a standard action to perform. Take blinding strike for example. You have to spend one standard action preparing it, and then you need to both hit them and get them to fail their fort save. All that for 1 round of blindness. Compare that to the Monk's stunning fist. It is not a very favorable comparison, AT ALL. To the monk! Use stunning fist as your template for these and make such things a free action.

Okay, back to the rogue. They need a huge boost. Big big big. First, making it possible to ditch sneak attack is a good idea, but if a rogue is giving up all of their damage potential in combat, the reward had better be damn well worth it. Skill rerolls aren't that valuable because skills aren't that valuable. Rare is it that a bad skill check is going to put you in peril. Spying Sight is a joke compared to sneak attack. Superior Sneak is way too circumstantial and a headache for GM's who feel they have to justify a rogue's suboptimal choices.

Some examples of core ability's for the other paths:

Secrets of the Trade: At each step, a rogue gains the Skill Focus feat and can declare any one skill roll a natural 20. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to the total number of steps, and the use may be after the initial roll, but before the DM tells the result.

Full Confidence: At first step, a rogue learns one language and gains one contact point. Once per day per step, the rogue can force the DM to reroll any check, roll, or save.

Spying Sight: At first step, the rogue learns one divination spell. This spell may be used at will. Each step grants access to a divination spell of the next spell level. At 10th step, the rogue can see into the future, at the DM's discretion.

Superior Sneak: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to all saving throws and AC per step.

All off the top of my head, so probably flawed in one way or another.

[Anonymouswizard]

Maybe make friends charm monster?

[alchemyprime]

Maybe make friends charm monster?

That's the upgraded version, but I like how you thin Anon. Welcome to the FRONT PAGE!

And also, on that mage: how does having mages learn to use their humours sound in spells. Not just blood casting, but Yellow and Black Bile casting, Phlegm Casting, and Plasm Casting! (Okay, so it'll be Sanguine, Choloric, Melancholic, Phlemgmatic and Plasmic, but still, you're draining your body of either Happiness and Blood, Passion and Yellow Bile, Sympathy and Black Bile, Kindness and Phlegm or Insight and Ectoplasm. That's right. YOUR SOUL'S BLOOD to enhance your casting!)

[Anonymouswizard]

And Hippocrates created humour casting, and so created wizardry! Before that everyone believed all magic was from gods.

If you don't feel like churning out the wizard quickly, how about the psion. I would like to see what changes have been made to the class to make it awesome. 25PP at level 1 I'm guessing. They would actually make sense having four different types of power points to represent the humours, as they are casting from their own body. So, psions have six different types of power points, and if they get out of balance he suffers penalties?

[Apalala]

And Hippocrates created humour casting, and so created wizardry! Before that everyone believed all magic was from gods.

If you don't feel like churning out the wizard quickly, how about the psion. I would like to see what changes have been made to the class to make it awesome. 25PP at level 1 I'm guessing. They would actually make sense having four different types of power points to represent the humours, as they are casting from their own body. So, psions have six different types of power points, and if they get out of balance he suffers penalties?

That sounds....incredibly tedious with absolutely no payoff.

[Anonymouswizard]

That sounds....incredibly tedious with absolutely no payoff.

There is pay of: fun. Also: more manifesting but you have to use each discipline you have powers in roughly evenly. It boosts focusing (all powers in 1 discipline means no penalties), and boosts being generalist (more powers per day).

[Apalala]

There is pay of: fun. Also: more manifesting but you have to use each discipline you have powers in roughly evenly. It boosts focusing (all powers in 1 discipline means no penalties), and boosts being generalist (more powers per day).

Psions are already plenty good though. I don't think "Here, have a heap more power, but in exchange you must do a bit more bookkeeping" is quite the fair tradeoff.

[Dante & Vergil]

I noticed that in the Rogue's Assassin path that the Death Attack's DC is 10 + The number of Dice you give up + Intelligence modifier. Why do you have it giving up Sneak Attack dice? The original didn't, so I don't see a reason here either. I say just remove the "give up SA dice" and make the DC 10 + The number of Dice you have + Intelligence modifier. It's not that bad to do it that way.

[alchemyprime]

Actually, I had my own method to emulate the caster's Recharge for psionicists (which monk and bard can be considered lite versions of). All psions have Power Points, true. But they also get Lucid Dream Points.

What are Lucid Dream Points? Exactly what it says. Dreams. You know how when you dream, there's a buncha stuff, but when you wake up, it goes away. It's converted into energy for the plane of dreams. When psions and wilders and soulknives and psychic warriors dream, they pick up the ambient energy from everyone else.

Then, let's say they're out adventuring and the psion has used up some power points last battle. While everyone else is laying around and resting to turn Reserve Points into Hit Points, psionicists are turning Lucid Dream Points into Power Points.

So in battle, you'll have, say, 15 pp. You burn up 10 of those on Energy Rays to deal with those pesky kobolds. Later, you rest and realize "well, I have 23 Dream points and a +3 Int modifier. I'll rest for 4 minutes, each minute transferring 3 ldp to pp, and the last transferring 1." Now you have 15 pp and 13 ldp.

Simple enough?

Oh... and pp? You get your Primary Casting Stat added to them every level. They go up more like HP now.

[alchemyprime]

I noticed that in the Rogue's Assassin path that the Death Attack's DC is 10 + The number of Dice you give up + Intelligence modifier. Why do you have it giving up Sneak Attack dice? The original didn't, so I don't see a reason here either. I say just remove the "give up SA dice" and make the DC 10 + The number of Dice you have + Intelligence modifier. It's not that bad to do it that way.

BEcause... um... I trusted Sztanzy again, and didn't realize which draft of assassin I copied. I copied the old one, not the new one. I knew I'd have to reupload rogue...

[alchemyprime]

*snip*

Okay, back to the rogue. They need a huge boost. Big big big. First, making it possible to ditch sneak attack is a good idea, but if a rogue is giving up all of their damage potential in combat, the reward had better be damn well worth it. Skill rerolls aren't that valuable because skills aren't that valuable. Rare is it that a bad skill check is going to put you in peril. Spying Sight is a joke compared to sneak attack. Superior Sneak is way too circumstantial and a headache for GM's who feel they have to justify a rogue's suboptimal choices.

Some examples of core ability's for the other paths:

Secrets of the Trade: At each step, a rogue gains the Skill Focus feat and can declare any one skill roll a natural 20. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to the total number of steps, and the use may be after the initial roll, but before the DM tells the result.

Full Confidence: At first step, a rogue learns one language and gains one contact point. Once per day per step, the rogue can force the DM to reroll any check, roll, or save.

Spying Sight: At first step, the rogue learns one divination spell. This spell may be used at will. Each step grants access to a divination spell of the next spell level. At 10th step, the rogue can see into the future, at the DM's discretion.

Superior Sneak: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to all saving throws and AC per step.

All off the top of my head, so probably flawed in one way or another.

Okay, modified Full Confidence to be closer to that. Spys now get a few SLAs, like detect poison and comprehend languages gives us a James Bond feel.

On fighter, I will be taking Foil Enemy out, and changing quite a few of the talents to swifts, moves or immediates.

Glad to know you like the sorcerer. I'm proud of him.

Updated Figther and Rogue may be up tonight or tomorrow.

[Apalala]

Glad to know you like the sorcerer. I'm proud of him.

Technically, I only said you made the sorcerer a lot more powerful, not that I liked it. Right now, the sorcerer could use some tweaking with its options, the improvise ability is vague and unappealing, but it's mostly fine, if only because the sorcerer was already powerful and was only made moreso.

Still reading through the classes. The barbarian this time. The alternatives to raging don't seem all that great. Compare the standard 3.5 rage to yours. Yours has fewer total rages, additional bonuses to reflex and will, and damage reduction. However, the barbarian loses out on the constitution bonuses, which increase the rage length, give him temporary hp, and bonuses to his fortitude save. All in all, they're about equal. Not exactly a great thing, since barbarians are already kind of subpar to begin with.

But then there's the Tattoo variant. +6 AC, +2 to saving throws, and fast healing 2. Not so bad. But you can't wear armor. What?! Barbarians have medium armor proficiency, so they could instead be wearing the classic mithral shirt for only 1 AC less. So you have the odd situation of the barbarian who lugs around a suit of armor and slaps it on every day after he finishes being angry. At level 4, you get natural armor +1. An amulet of natural armor costs 2,000 gp, and the two do not stack. Which means when you can afford the 8,000 gp +2 version, you essentially lose a class feature.

Level 8 nets some spell resistance. Not bad. Only works while the tattoos are active and it's 5+hd. So, a much crappier version of the monk's that never gets any better, has a 25% success rate against equal level casters, and something like 5-10% against equal CR casters. Bleh.

Level 12, +8 AC, +3 saves. Both of which can be bought permanently with magic equipment. Fast healing 3. You have 11d12+12*con more hp, so this doesn't scale up AT ALL.

At level 16, resistance to fire and cold. Useful, unless you're being hit with something like a fireball or dragon's breath that makes the 15 less damage look inconsequential.

And the level 20 capstone? +10 AC, +4 to saves, and fast healing 4. Oi...

Why would you give the option for a barbarian to gimp himself?

Shouts. Instead of raging, the barbarian becomes a really, really, really, really, really, really ****ty caster. :(

Frenzy is pretty mediocre.

Fetish is lame.

Blood bond is...okay for the caster with the leadership feat to slap on his cohort, I guess?

All in all, the replacements for the Rage class feature need a lot of work. Lots and lots. For one, being able to rage only once a day from levels 1 to 4 sucks. This is true of 3.5 as well. Why would you give casters rechargable spells and then limit the barbarian to only being a barbarian a few times a day, and then a water down fighter for the rest? Second, a rage should be totally sweet and awesome. +4 to strength and constitution is not totally sweet and awesome. Being able to charge through walls, hurl enemies high into the air, and rip things in half. That's awesome. If there were ever a candidate archetype for super strength in dnd, it's the barbarian. And when I say super strength, I don't mean 30 strength or anything like that. I mean feats of strength independent of rolls to attack and weapon damage.

Okay, special abilities now.

Devastating hit. You sacrifice your full attack for a hit with 1/2hd to attack and hd to damage. So....you sacrifice power for accuracy. Why is it called Devastating Hit? A terrible option regardless.

Fierce Attack. So...it's like Weapon Specialization, an already terribly mediocre feat, only.......worse.....why....?

Fists of fury. Bonus unarmed damage that only increases with barbarian levels and so doesn't work at all with multiclass monks, requires the improved unarmed attack feat, and is never going to overcome damage reduction.

Great Health. Ahem. BONUSES AGAINST POISON AND DISEASE SUUUCK!!!

Hard Charge. Extremely circumstantial and not worth a lot.

The talents are a mixed bunch. One gives you +1 natural armor. Another gives you +2 and the scent ability. Some of them are made mostly useless due to requiring to be raging. Things like the blindsight and ability to breath underwater. Others, like 5% fortification per 4 barbarian levels, are just ****ty. Special comment on Overextertion. You give up your full attack to make one attack, for up to an extra 2*4d8 in damage, at the cost of reserve points. 2*4d8 at the higher levels is crap. Really, really crap. 36 damage on average. To compare, a CR 20 monster is going to have about 250 hp, and a somewhat competent barbarian is going to be full attacking well past 100, probably over 200 in damage. If you're sacrificing a full attack AND reserve points, you should probably be getting something in the deal. All in all nothing too exciting.

Next I guess I'll be looking at the Cleric.

[Apalala]

First off, I see that there are no nerfs for DnD's most powerful class. Oh well.

Spontaneous casting. Quite the huge buff. Hard to imagine anyone picking the Deific Energy option till 20, and even then as an afterthought. In general, the 1, 10, 20 progression seems pretty awkward.

Oh, hey. Defense bonuses. First time I noticed those. Doesn't stack with armor. So, in effect, casters get a free boost to AC and fighters...uh...can buy cheaper armor. Okay...

Backgrounds seem pretty hax.

Aspirant: Two extra skills, extra AC, and an upgraded version of Alacritous Cogitation, which was already one of the wizard's best feats.

Barbarism: Go ahead and take a barbarian's class features on top of being a cleric.

About the Divine Power options: Mostly harmless.

Frankly, I'm a little confused. You make the most powerful classes a hell of a lot more powerful and you make the weakest classes have a glut of mostly useless options.

[Lady Tialait]

I think cool factor is pretty high. How would you suggest bringing up the power of the Barbar? Hmm? I like what he has done...but you might be right that it needs more power.

[Apalala]

Okay, first the Druid, then I think I'm going to take some time having a closer look at how to fix these.

Wilder Lore really doesn't have anything major, though Blood of the Predator makes me giggle. +2 attack with druid weapons, as though a druid would try and hit something without being a giant animal.

Lord of the Wild. So extra spells from domain, or do they just get the bonus, or...? The choices don't seem all that exciting, though Travel is the clear winner.

Paths again. I see Wildshape is still there and as broken as ever. Other paths are very underwhelming. Wouldn't be too bad if you mentioned Natural Spell being banned, I think.

Okay, going to think on the barbarian for a while now.

[Apalala]

Okay, first the Druid, then I think I'm going to take some time having a closer look at how to fix these.

Wilder Lore really doesn't have anything major, though Blood of the Predator makes me giggle. +2 attack with druid weapons, as though a druid would try and hit something without being a giant animal.

Lord of the Wild. So extra spells from domain, or do they just get the bonus, or...? The choices don't seem all that exciting, though Travel is the clear winner.

Paths again. I see Wildshape is still there and as broken as ever. Other paths are very underwhelming. Wouldn't be too bad if you mentioned Natural Spell being banned, I think.

Okay, going to think on the barbarian for a while now.

Well, that took a little longer than I thought.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135644

I mostly started from scratch, but I was definitely aiming for the "rule of cool" with this.

[alchemyprime]

Hey all.

My job has gotten intense, and my brain is racked. I'm gonna leave what's up up, but don't expect an update until after Christmas, and maybe a few days after that.

Because after Christmas, I will run a Christmas campaign (I love Christmas...) for my normal group using the Prime20 rules. So far, we seem to have a Gnome Sorcerer (Fire Bloodline), a Dwarf Wizard, a Human Druid and an Aasimar Psion. I have a VERY rough psion I'm running off of (read: Sztanzy's old Psion updated for the Varianmt Rules) and I will be reorting how they work in taking down Cold Mieser Cryonax and saving Santa Sinter, god of gifts, from him.

Yep. Sure gonna be fun.

Please don't take offense at the synopsis. We're going for a campy feeling.

[alchemyprime]

Pre Xmas Bump

[alchemyprime]

Post XMas bump. I will be playtesting this Wednesday.

Party seems to be:

Aasimar Paladin Maybe this guy, he got jury duty.
Aasimar Psion Psion is confusing the 9 Hells outta me, so she'll be a cleric
Human Bard
Human Cleric (yep. 2 of em).
Dwarf Wizard
Human Druid
Gnome Sorcerer
Shifter Barbarian
Warforged Fighter

And maybe another person or two. In order to do this, I will be using Pathfinder monsters where possible (someone turned the PFSRD into a PDF! I'm so happy now!)

[alchemyprime]

One day til playtest. I'll see how well the Bard's Casting Trees work. At least a bit.

Using a lot of ICe monsters (winter theme), and we have 3 cold resistant characters (Druid, Cleric and Paladin). And a fire mage and a fire sorc. This will be fun.

[alchemyprime]

So I ran two battles.

#1 was against two standard D&D 3.5 clerics, and a few Cold Template summons. Lasted only a bit while people got everything straightened out, and the tank took some nice damage from the Cold Wasp, Giant, but over all: CR 9 battle = too easy for 7 level 7 Prime20 characters.

So next up was... something WAY too hard if this were stamndard D&D or Pathfinder. I used a Pathfinder Adult White Dragon (CR 10) and two Pathfinder Frost Giants (CR 9 each). Total CR should have been CR 12. The sorcerer died, and the wizard took some nice damage, but over all: I've come to the conclusion that six level 7 Prime20 characters can take down a CR 12 enounter. This leads me to beleive that three could take down a CR 10. Or that one could take down a CR 8 (I'm going to test this myself tommorrow. I'm kinda wiped after New Years.) So... I'm going to check this through the levels, running both the Level 7+ game IRL and a Level 1 online (once I am confident in the power behind it).

Oh. And the wizard owned WITHOUT EVEN USING ONE OF HIS CLASS ABILITIES. Making me think... I gotta WEAKEN the one he didn't use, otherwise it'll be too tough. He DID use his Energy Favortism (Fire), making the DC of his Wall of Fire and his MR 1 higher. He DIDN'T use his Exploit Spell power, but I think I'll weaken it from (Int Mod) spells affected to 2 spells affected. (Exploit Spell is essentially Spell Secret from Wu Jen).

Still... It made me happy. And though the sorcerer died, the player refused my "One Free Rez" rule, and instead traded out characters, because he unveiled that until he got to my house, he thought we were playign level 1, not 7, so he wasn't able to plan out too well. He still did good; the problem was that the cleric and the fighter wouldn't help him fight off a frost giant by himself. The bard did. And did some NICE things to that giant.

[alchemyprime]

So I now have two playtest groups: 7th level and 3rd level. So... once I get the classes fixed up a bit more, who'd wanna join a playtest at... say level 15? Or maybe 20?

I don't wanna touch Epic with a 39 and a half foot pole for a while until I have Heroic and Paragon done...

Also... prestige classes. Some I wanna keep. Some I wanna make into feat trees. And Some I wanna make into paths. Like how Assassin is now a Rogue Path. Or a few PrCs will be editable into the Monk. Yeah...

[alchemyprime]

Okay, bringing up Barbarian by giving him Major and Minor Barbarisms (Majors will be 1/battle. Total. Minors will be 1/battle Each. So you can get a few of them. Yes, they are essentially just boosts-like maneuvers, but won't require a Maneuver Rating, liek maneuvers... do... You guys haven't seen Bard, Warlord, Ranger or Paladin yet... so you don't know what the new Martial adepts are like.

And Bards will be fun. 7 different paths of alternate spellcasting to pick from. Our playtest bard has 2 steps Psionic and 3 Martial and he's LOVING IT. Whoever made the Black Rain Discipline (I think it was Demented One, but I wanna give credit where it is due), my bard thanks you greatly.

[alchemyprime]

Minor bump. Hope to have Fighter totally fixed up by Wednesday.

[alchemyprime]

So... question: does anyone even USE the 4shared.com links? I know you use Scribd...


So, updated Fighter and Old Fighter are both up now. For all your wanting needs.

CHANGES
Many talents changed from a Standard to a Swift action (Evaluate is still Standard)
Got rid of foil enemy. We want fighter tough, not make him too tough.

[alchemyprime]

So yeah... Bumping thread. Also...

LET ME KNOW WHO IS INTERESTED IN PLAYTESTING! BETA FOR NOW!

So yes, as I am already Beta testing with my homegroup, I see:

Mages (unschooled wizards) are fun.
Clerics are crazy fun.
Sorcerers should never take on a giant single handedly. But he handled himself pretty well until he died.
Fighters get a lot more mileage with Swift actions. And Warforged make fantastic fighters.
Bards rock my socks. Especially gun specialist bards (he was using some gun feats too and the Black Rain discipline up here in the homebrew section, as well as two Psionic powers and a few spells.)

So bards... they get 3/4 levels worth of casting... in the Learned Talent system. They will never get CLOSE to a secondary's level of utility or duration. They can, however, build their casting to fit their theme. Our 7th level bard had 5 talents to spend (1st and 5th give no learned talents). He opted to spend 2 on Psionic powers (Bolt and Call Weaponry) and 3 on Martial Maneuvers (1 Strike, 1 Counter and 1 Stance).

He's... just about as good as a Gestalt Bard 5 / Psy War 3 / Swordsage 4 would be. Actually, a little behind that powerswise and a little ahead class features wise. But overall: bards are fun and being the generalist is fun again. He feels more like Factotum than core Bard, but still has his bardic music. Everyone at the table felt the bard could hol his own (except in melee. He was range speced, after all.)

[alchemyprime]

Bard is 90% done in First Draft. I just need to find Bard Art.

Also... howcome my thread name changes aren't working? Hrm?

[alchemyprime]

So... I came to noticing... the races are a bit... lacking. I realized we don't have many good... baddie races besides Half-Orc, Drow, Half-Drow, Goblin and Hobgoblin. Maybe Shifter, Human, and Warforged.

And then still...

So I decided to look at some other races to make for Prime20. I'm thinking of adding:

Dhampir: Half-Human, half-vampire
Elan: Former humans, now immortals.
Genasi: Humanoids with elemental backgrounds. Each element/quasielement/paraelement/tainted element will be a trait.
Orc: You know this already...

Are there any other races that merit inclusion in Prime20?

Also, after Friday's playtest, I will upload bard for you folks. I'd upload it now, but it doesn't seem right... maybe I get rid of the Criminal talent tree or the Eldritch talent tree.

[dragonfan6490]

If you could, throw in Dragonborn of Bahamut from Races of Dragon, Goliath from Races of Stone, Raptoran from Races of the Wild and Ilumian from Races of Destiny. That would be teh awesome.

[The-Mage-King]

And prehaps also add in... Maenad from the Expanded Psionics Handbook?

[The Tygre]

I've got a few I wouldn't mind seeing;

Kobolds
Gnolls
Kitsune
Derro
Melniboneans
Yuan-Ti
Warforged
Shadow-folk
Something in an Aberration flavor
Something from Faerie or the Feywild or whatever the Hell it is now

[alchemyprime]

And prehaps also add in... Maenad from the Expanded Psionics Handbook?

Um... we already HAVE Maenad. We have since the begining. Same with Warforged.

I do heartily agree on Illumian, Goliath and Dragonborn. Raptoran scare me slightly though. I was going to make a special racial feature for Elves, Drow, Half-Elves and Half-Drow only: Avariel Heritage and Dranival Heritage: You gain wings. You have a fly speed equal to you base land speed (average).

Kobolds, Gnolls, Kitsune and Spirit Folk are all something I agreed on. The way I'm setting up the cosmology, the Spirit Realm, Faerie and the Positive Energy plane are all going to be combined.

So, list of races to do:

Gnolls
Illumians
Goliaths
Kobolds
Orcs
Elans
Tiefling
Genasi


Also, Avariel and Dranival Heritage, and on top of those, the Modified Prestige Races:

Dhampir (think Blade. FOr the love of all that is holy, think Blade!)
Dragonborn (of Bahamut)
Dragonspawn (of Tiamat)
Revenant (The dead return!)
Planetouched (For those whom Aasimar, Genasi or Tiefling just isn't enough. Part Inevitable Dwarf anyone? Warforged with Slaad blood as a component? Sounds awesome to me.)
Soulcharged (Incarnum variant goodness)
Phrenic (Psionic variant)


I think these should be alternate ways of doing racial progression: You can start up on your normal progression at 2nd level, or jump into these. It'll be a bit tougher, but: you have to give up your Traits to it, and use the new progressions, but power will be slightly higher over all.

And I say that, with a proper quest, you can switch from your original race to a Prestige Race.

Also, changes I will be implementing:

Eliminating Minor Traits. Major Traits stay as just "traits".
Rogue, once it is sorted out, will be replaced with the newer version.
I will be uploading Bard and Ranger in the near future, as well as Occultist. When I do, I need help making the Occultist's capstone ability.


Tomorrow is the unveiling of the paladin to the Playtesters, who I originally thought over powered... until I realized that a caster can do twice the damage and all the effects of a paladin with two feats and an Enervation, and do it better. So paladin smiting and dealing +1d6 damage, rolling attack rolls twice and taking the better, and dealing 1 Negative level if they fail a Fort save doesn't seem so bad. It seems a little closer to Tier 2 or 1, which is where I want everyone.

[dragonfan6490]

Also, as an additional race suggestion, I second the Faerie-type creature, possibly Fey-Touch, from Fiend Folio.

[alchemyprime]

Hrm... fey, eh?

Well... let's see.

Race Ideas:
Killoren?
Trixies (Gnome/Pixies from Green Ronin. I liked them...)?
Dyads?

Prestige Race:
Fey-touched?

These sound satisfactory? Any other ideas?

[The-Mage-King]

Maenads from EPH.

They just scream awesome.

[alchemyprime]

Maenads from EPH.

They just scream awesome.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23940098/Prime-20-Races

There. I told you already, I love Maenads and Warforged, and so there were races from the begining. Maenads are page 15, Warforged are page 18. I know I have no psionic classes NOW, but for when I DO, I put Maenads and Dromites in from the beginning.

Though I realize now I wrote CR instead of Psionic Rating for the Energy Ray ability. Oops.

[The-Mage-King]

Sorry about that. I must have missed them.

Mayhaps a rhino-like race that can have wings?
Flying Barbarians are awesome...

[alchemyprime]

Sorry about that. I must have missed them.

Mayhaps a rhino-like race that can have wings?
Flying Barbarians are awesome...

Hm... maybe not RHINOS... but I can definately see a flying Barbarian race being fun...

I mean, we have Avariel elves, Dranariel drow, their Half-equivalents, Dragonborn/Dragonspawn that pick wings, and MAYBE raptorans and Fey-touched (also, I want to make these prestige races work! These sound fun!)...

Oh. Fun idea. VERY fun idea.

See, for the setting, I was going to make orcs into an animistic incarnum based culture.

So a barbarian with air-step sandals would be VERY appropriate. And Orcs will be VERY fun (you're looking down a -2 Int, -2 Wis, +4 Str, +2 Con race, as far as I plan, with ferocity like a half-orc and instant proficiencies in the new Orc weapon group).

"Why are orc raids so scary, father?"
"Because son... the elves fight from afar, some in the Air... they don't have to look up to fight the orcs. They run right over us, taking a ballista bolt to the chest, a warhammer to the head... and they still cut our warriors clean in two."
"So why don't we take them from behind keeps, like the dwarves?"
"BEcause we just can't do it son. The mountains don't yeild to us so."
"So what do we do, father?"
"Hope and pray. And know that at the end of the day, we're smarter than them. Each orc has the power of his ancestors behind him. Every human has the power we were given."
"What's that father?"
"We've had to fight the orcs without flying archers or giant mountain doors. We've had to fight them with sword and musket for hundreds of years, with spells and prayers and every trick we got. And that's out talent boy. We got EVERY trick."

[Shmee]

Hmmm.... flying barbarian race you say? Don't know if you are going to actually go ahead with your threat Alch, but I am curious to see how this would turn out. Perhaps a case of Air Rage?

[The-Mage-King]

Hmmm.... flying barbarian race you say? Don't know if you are going to actually go ahead with your threat Alch, but I am curious to see how this would turn out. Perhaps a case of Air Rage?

Ow. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun) That one really hurt.

[alchemyprime]

Ow. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun) That one really hurt.

I... I don't get it...

[alchemyprime]

UPDATES

Working on three new segments of races.

New Races:
Elans (who might be refluffed a little)
Genasi
Gnolls
Goliaths
Illumians
Kobolds (baby eating is optional)
Orcs
Ra'Tha (new race I'm working on, big anthropomorphic tiger folk.)
Tieflings

Prestige Races (Races you enter after 1st level, adding onto your earlier race choice):
Dhampir: For when you find out you're part vampire, or that bite just wasn't deep enough.
Dragonborn of Bahamut: The Platinum Dragon has encased you in an egg. When you hatch, you are now a platinum skinned, draconic humanoid.
Dragonspawn of Tiamat: Tiamat has finally gained the ability to spread the Dragontaint to the sentient races after they are born. A vile bleakness of the color surrounds you, coating you, assimilating you, reforming you.
Phrenic: Your natural psionic talents have exploded, making you into a much more powerful adversary.
Planetouched: Some powerful outsider has affected you. How do you let this through?
Revenant: You have died and returned. Yes, you're almost undead now. But isn't it great to see a smiling face again?
Soulcharged: Through some effect of chance, pure incarnum has flooded your body. It constantly seeps out of you now.

Advanced Races:
The Ola: Innately psionic LG race of paladins and scientists!
The Axa: Innately psionic LE race of crazed wizards and xenophobes!
The Amarana: Sister race to the Maenads, they are bronze skinned, fire haired godlike figures! (Read: +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Int)

Also... I am thinking of bringing in some Prestige classes. Any suggestions on what would make good Prestige Classes, and what would make good Prestige Feats?

Ie. Archmage works better as a class, whereas I think most dual casters should be a Core Class or a series of feats.

[The-Mage-King]

I... I don't get it...

Road rage... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_rage)

Now, what does a barbarian do? Rage.

What do you call it when a flying barbarian uses his primary class feature?

I'll leave it to you to figure it out...

[alchemyprime]

Road rage... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_rage)

Now, what does a barbarian do? Rage.

What do you call it when a flying barbarian uses his primary class feature?

I'll leave it to you to figure it out...

I thought it had to do with the general feeling of anger and uneasiness felt on airplanes. Air Rage.


Also, no opinions on PrCs?

[The-Mage-King]

Well, I'd say maybe some of the more badass sounding ones, like the Blood Mage.

[alchemyprime]

Well, I'd say maybe some of the more badass sounding ones, like the Blood Mage.

TMK, any specific ones you think sound Badass?

[DracoDei]

I am just throwing this in before I forget and I realize it won't come up for a while (if ever?):
Wing-Dragons might be especially appropriate in this setting.

[alchemyprime]

You know what, Draco? I think they will be!

Also, still working. Can you guys link me some awesome bard pictures for the bard class?

[alchemyprime]

Okay guys. I need your help.

See... I like doing things by myself, but writer's block has reared it's ugly head. Which looks suspiciously like the now endangered Blobfish. :smallamused:

So, I ask of you for some help with the following articles.

How to work in Prestige Races, and what a Race Conversion would entail.
Artwork. Oh Denier, do I need artwork...
Setting. As odd as it seems, I do have MOST of the setting done, but I would like help. Any ideas for cool locales, gods, organizations, anything, toss it at me! Or even other settings!
Class ideas. For example, Psychic Warrior, Warblade and Warmindwill become fused into the ... I have no idea for a name, and I don't WANT to reuse Warmind. So help there? Or cool concepts for a class that you can fit a few paths into or a nifty customizable mechanic?
MUSIC! I know it seems odd, but part of the Prime20 system will be AMBIANCE! Dimming the lights, using background music and soundeffects, using scented oils to make the room smell like what you need. Dungeons will have playlists listed and scents for rooms!
Any cool mechanics you can think of! Help me out guys! Custom poisons, cool new spells, ways to convert your favorite classes up to our "1, 2, 3 are the teirs for me!" mentality? Bring it ON!


Also...


bump. :smallbiggrin:

[DracoDei]

There is a set of poisons in my extended signature that is meant for defeating animals (much like the poisons on the arrows in The God's Must Be Crazy), the idea was to make something that wouldn't work as well on a humanoid, so I used INT damage. Of course, it also ends up being useful for slowing wizards down... but most of them have nil initial damage so... anyway I had a wereskunk monk who had shuriken coated in that to stop escaping criminals horses before they got too far.

I would like to see some poisons with Nauseated or Sickened as their results... in fact, let me just make a quick table here since I am too tired to do anything that requires thought...
Costs are shots in the dark, Craft DCs even more so.
Name|Vector|DC| Initial |Secondary|Cost|Craft DC
Troglodyte Musk |Inhaled|13|Sickened 10 rounds| None |50 |
Vomit Gas |Inhaled|15 |Sickened 10 rounds|Nauseated 1d4 minutes|100 |
Lemure Brain Juice|Injected|12|Shaken 1d3 minutes|Frightened 2d6 minutes|100 |
Nightmare Draught|Injested|20|Frightened 1d4 minutes|Panicked 2d4 minutes|200 |
Morale Slayer |Injested|20|None|Panicked 2d6 hours|500 |
Vertigo |Injected|15|Shaken if more than 5' feet off the ground, 1d6 minutes|None| |
Duck Bane |Contact|17|Fear of bodies of water larger than self for 1d6x10 minutes| | |
Eye Mist |Inhaled|14|-5 to spot and search checks for 2d6 minutes|-5 to spot and search checks for 2d3 days (stacks with previous)| |
Earwax Hormone|Injected|18|None|-1 to listen checks, repeat this save every hour for 2d8 hours, effects are cumulative, and last 2d6 days, or until a DC 18+penalty to listen checks from this effect Heal check is achieved on character. Failure makes half of penalty perminant from eardrum damage, failure by more than 10 results in perminant deafness until Regeneration or equivalent spell applied.| |

Unless another source is implied, for all fear effects the source of the fear is assumed to be the most dangerous object around, down to and including loved ones armed with so much as a kitchen knife.


Going to submit this now, so people can tell me if the lack of sleep is making me trippy in a GOOD way, or a BAD way.

[The-Mage-King]

MUSIC! I know it seems odd, but part of the Prime20 system will be AMBIANCE! Dimming the lights, using background music and soundeffects, using scented oils to make the room smell like what you need. Dungeons will have playlists listed and scents for rooms!
Any cool mechanics you can think of! Help me out guys! Custom poisons, cool new spells, ways to convert your favorite classes up to our "1, 2, 3 are the teirs for me!" mentality? Bring it ON!


Well... For the first, I suggest anything from Gurren Lagann.

You all expected that, I know.

For the second... I've been tinkering with a system for souls and people who can see them*, and with a little work, I could get it up in a week or so.


* Yes, I did use Bleach as a starting point. A little bit of 'find and replace, though, can deal with that...

[The Tygre]

You need Kyuss in the world somehow. Hell, you need the whole Age of Worms in it.

[alchemyprime]

You need Kyuss in the world somehow. Hell, you need the whole Age of Worms in it.

Of course, man. Kyuss is one of the coolest of the evil beings out there. He's AMAZING!

[The-Mage-King]

My aid is now in the form of a bump for relavancy.

You may thank me later.

[The Tygre]

Mormo from Scarred Lands is also cool. She's basically the mother of all hags and serpent related monsters.

[alchemyprime]

Bard will be up tonight with their crazy Learned Talent trees.
THE BARD IS HERE!

IN BROWSER (http://www.scribd.com/doc/26233598/Bard)
and it's loved friend for download isn't here right now. Because 4Shared is throwing a fit. But you can download it from the In Browser link, but you need a faster connection.

Thanks TMK. Thanks a lot.

Also, Work on the Advanced and Prestige races is coming along. I will upload a new Races Document once I have a few done. At least the Ola, the Axa, the Amarana and a few Prestige Races. I want Revenant and Dragonborn done at least.

[DarkCloud]

MUSIC! I know it seems odd, but part of the Prime20 system will be AMBIANCE! Dimming the lights, using background music and soundeffects, using scented oils to make the room smell like what you need. Dungeons will have playlists listed and scents for rooms!

I am interested in seeing how this turns out.

When you do post this up, could you also post it here instead of just on scribd?

[alchemyprime]

I am interested in seeing how this turns out.

When you do post this up, could you also post it here instead of just on scribd?

If I was better at formatting, sure. But I'm not.

*hinthinttothoseofyouwhocanformat*

[DracoDei]

Huh... no direct mention of Falling Anvil that I could see... guess your plans must have changed.

[alchemyprime]

Huh... no direct mention of Falling Anvil that I could see... guess your plans must have changed.

I made it so bard is able to take almost any discipline. I have made a chart, showing what disciplines are available for what classes. However, I do need to update it to include monk.

Yes, on the chart, only Bard and Ranger have Falling Anvil.

[DarkCloud]

I was only talking about placing the information regarding the rooms' music and aromas here. I can understand the annoyance of placing stat-blocs on this board, but regarding the rooms, could you just cut and paste?

[alchemyprime]

I was only talking about placing the information regarding the rooms' music and aromas here. I can understand the annoyance of placing stat-blocs on this board, but regarding the rooms, could you just cut and paste?

Oh, yeah. For that stuff I will make new Prime20 threads on articles for things like songs, aromas, and other such things.

[DarkCloud]

Sounds great. Thanks!

[alchemyprime]

Bumping this thread. For new interest!

Okay, firstly beyond this: what abilities should a dragonborn need? Or a revenant?

Also, Kobolds. How's this look to yall?

Kobold
–2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma: Kobolds are fast and magical but weak and frail.
Small: Kobolds are Small and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their CMB and CMD, and a +4 size bonus on*Stealth*checks.
Normal Speed: Kobolds have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Kobolds can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Armor: Kobolds have a +1 natural armor bonus.
Crafty: Kobolds gain a +2 racial bonus on*Craft*(trapmaking),Perception, and*Profession(miner) checks.*Craft(trapmaking) and*Stealth*are always class skills for a kobold.
Draconic Blood: All kobolds are inherently descended from dragons, normally of the evil variety. They gain a breath weapon usable once every 1d4 rounds. This breath weapon is either a 15 foot line or a 10 ft cone, picked at character creation, and deals 1d8 damage to those who fail a Reflex Save (DC = 1d20 + Charisma Modifier + ½ character level). This damage is one of four energy types (acid, cold, electricity, or fire). Once it is picked at character creation, it cannot be changed.
Light Sensitivity: A koboldin any light brighter than shadowy illumination gains a –1 on all attack rolls, damage rolls, and Reflex saves, as well as a –2 on her Armor Class.
Languages: Kobolds begin play speaking only Draconic. Kobolds who have high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Salt, and Undercommon.
Favored Classes: Kobolds treat Sorcerer and Warlorck as their favored classes.
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs31/300W/f/2008/208/6/b/Kobold_1__Fireguy_by_clkolbe.jpg

[dragonfan6490]

Firstly: The Kobold looks fantastic. I am really impressed with what you're doing.

Secondly: I'm not really sure what you could do for Dragonborn or Revenent, but I'm definately looking forward to it!

Also, would it be alright to use the stats for your races for my campaign setting? When I post it on the boards, would it be ok if I posted a link over here? Gotta give credit where credit is due. :smallbiggrin:

[alchemyprime]

Firstly: The Kobold looks fantastic. I am really impressed with what you're doing.

Secondly: I'm not really sure what you could do for Dragonborn or Revenent, but I'm definately looking forward to it!

Also, would it be alright to use the stats for your races for my campaign setting? When I post it on the boards, would it be ok if I posted a link over here? Gotta give credit where credit is due. :smallbiggrin:


Dude, go for it! Bring in the traffic! Will you be using the Racial Advancement system as well?

[dragonfan6490]

You bet I will. I couldn't use you're races and not use the racial advancement! I think like 60-70% of the races/class/anything that has actual mechanical rules in my setting is either my own homebrew or homebrew from these forums.

Edit: If you like, when I get the whole campaign setting written up and converted to PDF, I could send you a copy.

[alchemyprime]

You bet I will. I couldn't use you're races and not use the racial advancement! I think like 60-70% of the races/class/anything that has actual mechanical rules in my setting is either my own homebrew or homebrew from these forums.

Edit: If you like, when I get the whole campaign setting written up and converted to PDF, I could send you a copy.

To quote Picard: Make it so!

Glad you like the races! Just wait until the Advanced and Prestige races show up! Goliath will become an Advanced I've decided. Makes it more fun.

[DracoDei]

(DC = 1d20 + Charisma Modifier + ½ character level).
Why the randomized DC?

[alchemyprime]

Why the randomized DC?

Sorry. In Prime20, all DCs from a PC are randomized. All Monsters act as if all d20 rolls there were going to make were an 11.

So a monster lands a Critical Hit if you fumble a Defense Roll and fumbles if you roll a Natural 20 on a Defense roll.

So a PC spellcaster, for a Spell DC, would roll 1d20 + Spell Level + Ability Mod.

Let's say a Wizard is casting Fireball and a troll makes a Reflex Save. While in d20, it would be 13 + Ability mod for the Troll to hit as a DC, in Prime20 it is the Wizard rolling 1d20 + 3 + Ability mod and trying to hit 15.

Make sense?

[DracoDei]

Ah... "Players roll all dice?"

[alchemyprime]

Ah... "Players roll all dice?"

Pretty much. Except DM still rolls monster damage rolls so that he can fudge the rolls a bit. This is epic epic EPIC fantasy. This is Gurren Langan Fantasy. So it's okay to fudge damage rolls a little lower to avoid a TPK.

Yes. That's my philosophy. And I'm sticking to it. Not that I won't kill PCs. I've done it many a time.

[alchemyprime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyhhFzE5O5U&feature=related

Just saying... I think this should be the fight music for every penguin a party encounters.

(Penguin meaning a friend who's been enchanted against the party.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzDsh2kRB2g

And I see this as an excellent song for a king or duke, though it was meant for a jerk of a sailor.

No, not K'Nuckles.

[dragonfan6490]

Just thought I'd give this thread a friendly bump!

[alchemyprime]

Bumping this. I am trying to finish up more classes and races as fast as I can, but I don't want to mess it all up.

[alchemyprime]

Back to the front page! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE BUMP!

I've begun watching TTGL all the way through. Does it show?

[The Tygre]

You're in for a treat. Don't forget to track down the two movies when you're done.

[The-Mage-King]

I must find them... I must...

I own the series on DVD, but I can't find the movies anywhere...

[alchemyprime]

Well, I figure I want Kamina to be what people think of as a warlord in some cases. That character that inspires others, even in his death!

[alchemyprime]

So... I heard you liek kicking reason to the curb and bumping threads beyond the impossible...

I liek combining memes myself.

[The-Mage-King]

i liek using tehm.


http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/038/461/original/Iareseriouscat.jpg?1265227823

[The Tygre]

So that's how this is going to be, huh? Well...

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/shredtastical/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

[The-Mage-King]

http://lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/internet-o_rlyeh_2.jpg

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham:Stop bumping this thread and stop spamming pointless images.

[alchemyprime]

Okay guys... Since I am tired fo just bumping this and not publishing things til they are done, I'm changing formats.

http://prime20project.wikia.com/

There we are! We have a wiki now! Any help moving things over will be mighty appreciated!

[The Tygre]

Ooh, like the new layout. Normally I don't like wikis, but I think I'll manage.

[dragonfan6490]

Coolness Alch. Are you still going to publish your stuff to this thread or is everything from here on out going to be on the wiki?

Edit: By the way, I know you're busy with Prime20, but if you have the chance, would you mind taking a look at my Campaign Setting? Its in my sig, and do you mind if I put a link to this thread in my signature also? Give you a little more traffic.

[alchemyprime]

Coolness Alch. Are you still going to publish your stuff to this thread or is everything from here on out going to be on the wiki?

Edit: By the way, I know you're busy with Prime20, but if you have the chance, would you mind taking a look at my Campaign Setting? Its in my sig, and do you mind if I put a link to this thread in my signature also? Give you a little more traffic.

1. I will look at it once I have a bit more time, but of course. Hell, I'll make a new section for it on the wiki.

2. Totally link this thread and the wiki please. I'd appreciate it.

[Dante & Vergil]

Here's the link for D20 Frog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130254). (Here as well if you don't feel like quoting this post.)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130254

[dragonfan6490]

Hey Alch, how's Prime20 coming along? You haven't updated anything in like three weeks and there's nothing on the wiki. Just don't wanna see this go the way of so many other projects.

[alchemyprime]

I've hit a roadblock. Life is getting a little tough, and my other projects are... less taxing, I'm afraid. And all my playtesters have told me they hate Prime20.

So... I'm putting this on Hiatus for a while, unless one of you wants to update the wiki and help me out. I just got a few other projects that have taken precedence. Like school and work I'm afraid. :smalltongue:

But if one of you guys want to help move what was already published over to the wiki, that'd be mighty appreciated.