What makes it so great anyway?

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

I'm starting to notice a trend in gaming sites. It's a bit of a sickening one too. All too often I'm seeing here and on other sites people asking how they get someone to like something. It's not always tame either, the subject absolutely hates X, but the person wants to get them into it. Then comes the parade of people telling the asker how to get them to like it.
People, we need to start accepting that if someone doesn't take our word for it, we can't convince them to like what we like. Going any further is treading into familiar teritory. When was the last time someone tried to convert you? (Not up for discussion)
We can't make people like the things we like. We can't convince someone to do something they're bound and determined not to. We need to start wrapping our minds around this as gamers, metalheads, or pony enthusiasts. We have to let people come into it on their own. Otherwise you can't complain when people bug you about stuff.
I hope as a community we can keep this in mind, thanks for your time.

[SurlySeraph]

Clearly you hate games, metal, and ponies. Why do you hate games, metal, and ponies so much?

In all seriousness, it's perfectly normal to want others to share in your interests. Most things are more enjoyable with friends, and what better way to get friends who are interested in something than to get your existing friends to enjoy it? It is entirely possible to convince almost anyone to change their minds at least a little on any issue, given the correct persuasion. And there's no reason not to do so, if you'd prefer for them to have an opinion closer to yours.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

No of course. It just seems that the fervor is getting to be in too great of quantities as of late.

[Innis Cabal]

Simple solution: Don't read said threads. Ignore said conversations. You clearly don't like it when people try to convince someone to like something they don't....why bother getting involved what so ever?

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

Simple solution: Don't read said threads. Ignore said conversations. You clearly don't like it when people try to convince someone to like something they don't....why bother getting involved what so ever?

That seemed a little too judgemental :(.

[Innis Cabal]

Your trying to tell people to stop asking others for help convincing someone to like something they don't like. All I'm saying is...if it bothers you...don't read it. I don't see how thats judgemental, it seems that would solve alot of problems, not just on this issue but on a good deal more. Let people learn from their mistakes, if they ask for help and you don't want to give it, don't follow the thread.

[Katana_Geldar]

It must be said: I have been turned off things for the simple reason that someone has hounded me to watch/read it to the point where I say very nicely "Please, stop talking about it!"

[Rescindment]

Actually I tend to agree here, it's worse with T.V shows and movies. I don't understand why i'm simply not allowed to hate Twilight and True Blood. ..i'ma stop there before this just launches into a rant about those two.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I have also noticed a sickening trend in gaming sites.Thread titles that tell us nothing about the topic.

There, I said it.

And to respond to your thread proper-like: People like to do things they like with people they like. And unless they really are dead-set against something due to some extreme reason, opinions can be changed.

[Eldan]

Changing someone's opinion is hard, but not impossible. However, changing someone's preconceptions can be easy, once you get them to look at it. Case in point: the only such threads I remember usually started with: "My friend hates Anime because he thinks it's all shouting teenagers with glowing hair doing martial arts while flying and throwing fireballs. Name me some Anime that's accessible and about as non-DBZ as it can get." That, I'd say, is fair game.
Though, you probably don't mean it like that.

[HotAndCold]

the subject absolutely hates X, but the person wants to get them into it. Then comes the parade of people telling the asker how to get them to like it.

Well, part of this is the idea that "oh maybe they just saw the bad ones; maybe you'll like this one better!" Maybe somebody doesn't like ponies just because a pony bit them when they tried to feed it when they were but kneehigh, but if they were introduced to nicer ponies, they might discover that ponies actually are to their liking!

Or, more to the point, sometimes people are known to argue from ignorance using stereotypes. It's sad, but it happens. Let's say I've played maybe two platformers in my life, but they were both awful platformers. I might come to the assumption that all platformers are like those two and argue that platformers are awful and I hate them, because I've certainly never played one that I liked, when, in objective reality, there are plenty of platformers that I'd get a lot of fun out of, I've just never been introduced to them. Most categories that get brushed with broad strokes like, y'know, universal hatred, tend to have a lot of sub-categories within sub-categories within sub-categories. Like, platformers, you've got 2-D platformers vs. 3-D platformers, and then within 3-D platformers, you've got linear ones like Crash Bandicoot, or sprawling exploratory ones like Spyro, and then there's factors like the importance of the plot and all kinds of things.

This is all assuming that the person in question is talking about a general category, though. If somebody doesn't like a specific game, it's just silly to try to force them to like it. But mostly I see "evangelical" behavior in defense of categories, not specifics.

[Katana_Geldar]

Particularly in the RP board, I have noticed what I call "edition snobbery". Some people just haven't got the resources to get a different edition or they happen to like the one they have for various reasons. Get over it!

[arguskos]

Particularly in the RP board, I have noticed what I call "edition snobbery". Some people just haven't got the resources to get a different edition or they happen to like the one they have for various reasons. Get over it!
Same with hot-button topics, such as Monks, Fighters, and Tome of Battle. If you like the first two, or don't like the latter, lots of folks are HIGHLY interested in "proving" your dislikes wrong, and making you "come to your senses". This and similar trends of "you are wrong and I am right, your feelings be damned" suck, and are very very prevalent on the internet.

I think the anonymity of the internet is the issue, since we can hide behind a screen and not actually have to man up to our statements. That level of protection leads people to claim their way is the best and only way, and everyone else is just wrong. It's something I'm not sure we can avoid, the internet being what it is and all.

[ghost_warlock]

I had a friend once who really hated peanuts. Or, at least, he said he did.

So, to prove him wrong, I slipped some peanuts into an ice cream sundae he was eating.

Turns out he was allergic and he died. I miss him sometimes. :smallfrown:

Oh, hey, the waffles are done! :smallbiggrin:

[Parra]

Am I the only one who noticed the irony of the OP? That is, trying to convince people to stop trying to convince others...

got a giggle out of me thats for sure

[Green Bean]

Am I the only one who noticed the irony of the OP? That is, trying to convince people to stop trying to convince others...

got a giggle out of me thats for sure

A little hypocrisy is necessary for good mental health.

Anyway, on topic. This sort of thing's generally rooted in good intentions. The worst arguments do seem to arise not when the person doesn't want to be persuaded, but when they've got misconceptions that people want to correct. "I don't like Tome of Battle" is fine, but "I don't like Tome of Battle because it's Dragonball Z anime stupid" is another.

[Scorpina]

It seems to me that there is a line somewhere, and where that line is is probably subjective. Thus, I might think I'm just trying to broaden your horizons by bugging you about that one band that I think are totally awesome but you hate, while you think I'm being a pain in the rear. Of course, the circumstances are going to be different depending on context. For example, if you've heard most of said band's songs and you hated every note, I'm probably just badgering you, but if you've heard that one song that gets radio play but all actual fans of the band hate and judged them on that, I'm probably more justified.

Right?

[Green Bean]

It seems to me that there is a line somewhere, and where that line is is probably subjective. Thus, I might think I'm just trying to broaden your horizons by bugging you about that one band that I think are totally awesome but you hate, while you think I'm being a pain in the rear. Of course, the circumstances are going to be different depending on context. For example, if you've heard most of said band's songs and you hated every note, I'm probably just badgering you, but if you've heard that one song that gets radio play but all actual fans of the band hate and judged them on that, I'm probably more justified.

Right?

Well, it's easy to get caught between the "How can you judge them without listening to all their songs?" and "If you hate them so much, why did you bother to listen to all their songs?"

[Killer Angel]

Simple solution: Don't read said threads. Ignore said conversations. You clearly don't like it when people try to convince someone to like something they don't....why bother getting involved what so ever?

Really? :smallannoyed:
Well, sometime you can't. Because, for example, YOU are joining a discussion on fighters, and YOU say that you don't like ToB, and peoples don't accept your position, because you MUST give a reason for your tastes, it's not sufficient to say "I don't like it". And when, always for example, you try to elaborate, just to end the discussion, and you say that you find ToB too much wuxia for your tastes... at this point, the others say that you're wrong because it's not true, etc etc.
I don't care if I'm wrong, i don't like it because i find it too much supernatural for my tastes, please can we move on and continue discussin' fighters?
No, ToB is not as you describe it, you're wrong because etc etc.

Note: i'm not the one discussing against ToB, but I was lurking that thread, and I've seen it derailing in the way described. :smallmad:

[Mando Knight]

We can't make people like the things we like.

Yes, you can, and it's occasionally actually good for you. While things that don't matter (like taste in game types, pizza toppings, music, etc.) shouldn't be fussed about all the time, making people understand and accept (and in some cases like) certain matters is. That's what reasonable debate is for. Brainwashing is more effective, but less ethical.

You'll never get someone to like something by tyrannically forcing them to use/experience it, but you can change hearts and minds with kindness.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

You'll never get someone to like something by tyrannically forcing them to use/experience it, but you can change hearts and minds with kindness.
That was basically the point. You just pout it less convoluted than I did. Thank you ^_^.

[Ichneumon]

Someone convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

[Catch]

You can change hearts and minds with kindness.

I lol'd.

Really, it's our social nature that prevents people from getting along. Race and tribe as lines of division are so muddled that group boundaries are drawn with more abstract distinctions, like values (including social, political and religious) and interests. These aren't much better, and what's worse, they can change, so relatability in social groups can fluctuate, based on the assumption that "we have to agree on the same things to respect each other."

What's worse, everyone has their own barometer of what makes an acceptable acquaintance, so we're always measuring people by what we think they should do or believe, and get frustrated when they don't. It's really only an issue if you make it one, but I can't condemn one method of judgment (say, on anime or preferred D&D systems), but condone another. Your "big issues" might seem trivial to me, but mine aren't any better or worse. For example, if you own a Kindle, we can't be friends. This is categorical imperative.

Arguments about how someone "should" feel are inherently selfish, and pretty darn stupid. It's possible to talk about what you enjoy or dislike without the implication that someone else is wrong. I often find it enlightening to learn about people's tastes and preferences, just for the sake of seeing another perspective. If anything worthwhile comes from a debate over what's awesome/sucks, it's understanding why other people feel the way they do. On the trivial stuff, like media, food and clothing, disagreement is fine, and it's important to be respectful.

Unless you own a Kindle. Then you're dead to me.

[Trog]

Stating your opinion on a topic of discussion is fine. Feeling the need to prove someone else's opinion to be wrong is what gets a little tiring if doggedly pursued. On both sides.

At best, the convincer is just gleefully trying to share the joy as they see it. At the worst, they are feeling the need to put down others to raise themselves up. The resister, at best, already knows their own tastes and the subject at hand and politely declines to be convinced because they have been down that path before. At worst they know nothing of the subject and close-mindedly resist anything they do not already agree with.

The act of convincing (and of resisting) will likely never stop though. It's human nature I think. If it bothers you I'd say it's best to begin to take it less seriously. There is no good or bad but thinking makes it so, as they say.

In the end, though, you'll do what you want to do. :smallwink:

[Morty]

I thoroughly agree with this thread's premise. There are not many things that irritate me more than people who just refuse to be deterred from shoving their preferences into other's faces. It really kind of makes me want to smack them with a wrench with "Get Over It" written on it. Such are the discussions on the Internet, though. We can't let this people on the Internet to continue being wrong, can we?

[Katana_Geldar]

Some people can remain so willfully ignorant though and will just refuse to experience something, even once and when you put everything in front of them and they just refuse to pick up the ball.

I remember an argument I had with my nan once when I offered to show her how to play solitare on the computer. She already knew the game the old fashioned way but insisted that computers were to difficult to understand.

[Gamerlord]

Same with hot-button topics, such as Monks, Fighters, and Tome of Battle. If you like the first two, or don't like the latter, lots of folks are HIGHLY interested in "proving" your dislikes wrong, and making you "come to your senses". This and similar trends of "you are wrong and I am right, your feelings be damned" suck, and are very very prevalent on the internet.

I think the anonymity of the internet is the issue, since we can hide behind a screen and not actually have to man up to our statements. That level of protection leads people to claim their way is the best and only way, and everyone else is just wrong. It's something I'm not sure we can avoid, the internet being what it is and all.

There was an article in the WSJ about "Webtribution".

Turned out your not nearly as private on the interwebs as you think.

I avoid many gaming threads, too many people trying to convert me to Halo.

Edit: Found it! (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703300504574567711684786166.html)

[Froogleyboy]

At the beggining of the summer my friends all thought DnD was Evil/Geeky/Stupid and made fun of me for playing it. And now we have an adventure everyday after class :) so its not impossible

[Morty]

Some people can remain so willfully ignorant though and will just refuse to experience something, even once and when you put everything in front of them and they just refuse to pick up the ball.

I remember an argument I had with my nan once when I offered to show her how to play solitare on the computer. She already knew the game the old fashioned way but insisted that computers were to difficult to understand.

On the other hand, I don't see why it's a problem for anyone but themselves.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

i have this friend who won't stop bothering me because i'm not a halo fan, and refuse to buy it. says he: "come on, it's only $20 now and you never gave it a chance, and all those things you said about it are just wrong"

never mind i've played it a million times, have thought plenty about why i don't want it, and can think of plenty other places to spend $20, it never ends

[snoopy13a]

There was an article in the WSJ about "Webtribution".

Turned out your not nearly as private on the interwebs as you think.

I avoid many gaming threads, too many people trying to convert me to Halo.

Edit: Found it! (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703300504574567711684786166.html)

That's more of people you know using the internet to ruin your reputation.

However, a clever person can identify someone from the internet by using deductive reasoning based on information the unknown person reveals. For example:

Person X reveals through internet posts that:
1) I live in Anytown USA
2) I'm on the boys high school track team there
3) I'm in the drama club

If Anytown, USA only has one high school then our Sherlock-stalker could narrow the person down to a handful of possiblities and with more infomation could actually ID the person.

I don't think this is too common because the vast majority of people either:

1) Aren't clever enough to do this
2) Would see this as absolutely none of their business and wouldn't even try
3) If they are interested in knowing the person better, they'd simply grow a friendship like a normal person would instead of gathering information without Person X's knowledge like a Sherlock-stalker

Still, it important that people hesititate to give out personal details for this very reason. Even innocent seeming ones such as hometown or college can be used as one part of the algorithim.