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LibraryOgre
2009-12-03, 12:47 PM
This is something that I don't quite understand.

How do you have a venerable anything that is only 1st level? Assuming it has a lifespan of even 30 years, what has it been doing for the past three decades that have had no significant impact on it? It gets even worse with races that live longer... humans, elves, dwarves.

Edwin
2009-12-03, 12:55 PM
This is something that I don't quite understand.

How do you have a venerable anything that is only 1st level? Assuming it has a lifespan of even 30 years, what has it been doing for the past three decades that have had no significant impact on it? It gets even worse with races that live longer... humans, elves, dwarves.

How many 1st level venerable people do you see, anyway?

Short of optimizing PC's, of course.

Waylor
2009-12-03, 12:58 PM
Just a regular farmer NPC, though i cant see one of my players making a new character as venerable. If you read some published adventures you can see that venerable non adventurer npcs are commoners 3-6. Theres no point on leveling for commoners, i think i doesnt even make sense, so you're venerable commner (20) human, you have 20hd and more resistance to damage/magic than a young boy.

Or just make him start as one of the npcs classes and then move to wizard/rogue/whatever

golentan
2009-12-03, 01:02 PM
What do elves do for more than a hundred years that has no significant impact on their lives? They hit puberty at around the same time humans do in most fluff, but it's not THAT distracting...

The answer in venerable 1st levels (I think) is they've been scraping by. They have a job, and they do it, and it doesn't give them time to gain a ton of experience. And since they like eating, they keep doing it until they can break free.

Duke of URL
2009-12-03, 01:03 PM
This is something that I don't quite understand.

How do you have a venerable anything that is only 1st level? Assuming it has a lifespan of even 30 years, what has it been doing for the past three decades that have had no significant impact on it? It gets even worse with races that live longer... humans, elves, dwarves.

The only reason I've ever seen to have "venerable" at 1st level is for CharOp. Those guys aren't concerned about RP logic, it's simply a matter of theoretical optimization for them.

Sliver
2009-12-03, 01:09 PM
A wizard did it. Really, the mundane classes have no reason to start as venerable, so you can say that they were the almighty wizard until someone cursed them, stole all their stuff and made them lose all experience. They still remember their special status and power, but have no proof and everybody forgot them.. Or w/e. A wizard did it.

Geddoe
2009-12-03, 01:15 PM
Simply done, you are fresh out of wizard school. Then you sleep with some god's daughter so he puts you to sleep with a magic spell for 50 years. Your punishment is that your youth is gone.

Alternatively, you get raped in some goddess's temple by another god. So the goddess punishes you by using the sleep spell to steal your youth.

jiriku
2009-12-03, 01:15 PM
A level 1 venerable is someone who's led a confined life, or had a life full of wasted opportunities. In the real world, this is the middle-aged woman working at Arby's, the elderly man who's a greeter at Wal-mart, the uncle you have who at age 55 is living with his sister because he still can't manage to hold down a job for more than a few months at a time. These are the people who dropped out, dodged the draft, never went to college, never got married, got passed over for that promotion, missed out on the trip to Asia because they didn't want to spend the money.

In short, they've spent their whole lives putting in the minimum effort necessary just to get by, and they've never really accomplished anything.

They're the most unlikely sort to ever become adventurers, but if someone had a dramatic, pivotal experience late in life, they might come to question themselves and decide they're capable of more. They might decide it's never too late to take a risk.

I read an anecdote by Jack Canfield once (the guy who write the Chicken Soup books). He had interviewed a grandmother who was locally famous for having pulled a car off her grandson when he was being crushed by it. She was reluctant to discuss "the incident", and when he asked her why, she said "If I could pick up a car by myself, something I thought was impossible, how many other things have I not done in my life, just because I thought they couldn't be done?" Jack convinced her that it wasn't too late to do the impossible, and this grandmother who was a college dropout but had always had a love for geology went back to college, earned a geology degree, and began teaching geology at a local community college.

I'd say she was definitely an example of how someone who was still 1st level at a venerable age could decide to start really experiencing life (in the leveling up sense).

Edwin
2009-12-03, 01:20 PM
Except that when you've spend 50 years that way, in and out of jobs that is, you've probably earned an even thousand experience.

When you're level one, cooking a burger is a challenge. A deadly one. :smallwink:

Duke of URL
2009-12-03, 01:23 PM
When you're level one, cooking a burger is a challenge. A deadly one. :smallwink:

Hell yeah. A single bison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bison.htm) (nearest equivalent to a cow in the SRD) is a CR 2 encounter. And if you want bacon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/boar.htm) on that burger, you're up to EL 4 (and enough XP to level up, if you survive the solo encounter).

LibraryOgre
2009-12-03, 03:07 PM
Simply done, you are fresh out of wizard school. Then you sleep with some god's daughter so he puts you to sleep with a magic spell for 50 years. Your punishment is that your youth is gone.

Alternatively, you get raped in some goddess's temple by another god. So the goddess punishes you by using the sleep spell to steal your youth.

See, IMO, those wouldn't count. The increases in mental attributes theoretically represent that you lived your life, not just time served. That's part of why everyone hated magical aging in previous editions... it destroyed your body, but didn't help your mind at all.

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-03, 03:14 PM
Except that when you've spend 50 years that way, in and out of jobs that is, you've probably earned an even thousand experience.

When you're level one, cooking a burger is a challenge. A deadly one. :smallwink:

Most jobs give you 90 days, so they can decide if you're worth keeping. You don't need a resume, or even a strong background, to get a job at the Taco Tiki. You get hired... You screw things up for a month or two. You get fired.

Unless life's DM is generous with RP xp, then your skills, endurance, knowledge, and expertise in field is squat. You are level 1, in all ways that matter. You're a failure.

That's how to be level 1 you're whole life. Never learn. Never grow.

Sploosh
2009-12-03, 03:15 PM
What if he dreamed a life in this comatose state?

Edwin
2009-12-03, 03:17 PM
Most jobs give you 90 days, so they can decide if you're worth keeping. You don't need a resume, or even a strong background, to get a job at the Taco Tiki. You get hired... You screw things up for a month or two. You get fired.

Unless life's DM is generous with RP xp, then your skills, endurance, knowledge, and expertise in field is squat. You are level 1, in all ways that matter. You're a failure.

That's how to be level 1 you're whole life. Never learn. Never grow.

So, what, he lives his entire life without ever having any kind of experience? Unlikely.

Hell, living as a walking, talking failure should give you experience just getting up in the morning. Your sad life story is bound to hand out a bit of RP experience, too.

OMG PONIES
2009-12-03, 03:24 PM
A level 1 venerable is someone who's led a confined life, or had a life full of wasted opportunities....the elderly man who's a greeter at Wal-mart...In short, they've spent their whole lives putting in the minimum effort necessary just to get by, and they've never really accomplished anything.
.

That's right, Wal-Mart doesn't hire retirees who have lived full, significant lives and want part-time work to fill their time. I almost forgot. Thanks for reminding me.:smallannoyed:

Gorilla2038
2009-12-03, 03:31 PM
Walmart is the devil, and actively hunts for the worst people to hire. IF you dont fall into that category, well, even thw best screenign tests fail sometime! :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2009-12-03, 03:33 PM
Too easy. Get level-drained.

@ Jiriku: Was it necessary to slam Wal-Mart employees like that? They may all be shiftless husks in your town, but damn.

vanyell
2009-12-03, 03:33 PM
another possibility:

farmer Joe has lived a long life in Arpee-ville tending to his apple trees. every year or so, the evil empire of tippy comes in and tries to take over with a wight army. after many years of near escapes, farmer Joe decides to take up the [generic holy object here] and fight for his few remaining years.


there we go. a venerable level 1 cleric . possibly even cloistered, for real cheese.

level drain can do that

EDIT: damn ninjas

awa
2009-12-03, 03:34 PM
the entire experience mechanic is unrealistic i wouldn't worry so much about it. Think about it pcs (assuming they don't die) can go from level 1 to 20 in a matter of months or even weeks. Compare that to the grizzled veterans and such who needed years to achieve the same level of skills. Or for example the fact that elves and dwarfs must have extremely sever learning disability to be hundreds of years old and still only level 1, or the fact that it is so much harder for high level adjustment races to earn levels why does a cloud giant have such an exponential harder time learning to be a wizard than a human or hell even a half orc he much smarter logical it should be easier.

"edit i actual got storm giants and cloud giants, and cleric as opposed to wizard confused but the point still stands "

Now those example were just for the sake of argument theirs no point in saying something about how cloud giants have some specific reason they cant learn class levels or any thing similar unless you can do it for all races with racial hit dice and or level adjustment.

I guess the point to take away from my rant is that exp is not realistic and just an attempt to provide game balance for pcs not npcs and theirs no real reason you cant start a game with an old charecter at level 1 with out resorting to magical aging and such.

thubby
2009-12-03, 03:38 PM
So, what, he lives his entire life without ever having any kind of experience? Unlikely.

Hell, living as a walking, talking failure should give you experience just getting up in the morning. Your sad life story is bound to hand out a bit of RP experience, too.

level 1 fighters with 0 experience went through some kind of training. lvl 1 wizards spend ages in an academy. a 0 xp rogue could have spent his life on the streets picking pockets and robing stands. being level 1 means you have gained a command of the basic skills of your class.
someone who has consistently failed at life clearly has no such power.

and having a -6(?) to con at level 1 basically means 1 hp. it might pay off later but later is very unlikely to happen.

drengnikrafe
2009-12-03, 03:47 PM
I was given an answer, once, by and old friend when I asked a simliar question. He told me the following:
"Think of the first level rogue, or the first level fighter. They were something before they were that. The fact that you have 0 experience means you have just started down this particular road. In reality, everything (before it became a PC class) had an NPC class, but for the sake of adventuring, that doesn't count worth a damn. You give up your NPC class levels when you become a PC."

Unless, of course, you'd like to say that people who don't yet have PC levels have no class (not even commoner) beforehand, which would clearly suggest that they also have no skill points, and no hit points.

You could live the first 4/5ths of your life being a commoner, and then take up a sword to be a fighter, and qualify to become a fighter by going through fighter college. When that time comes, it doesn't really matter how many years you pitchforked hay for (except maybe for strength and dexterity), it matters that you now are practicing fighting.

Starbuck_II
2009-12-03, 04:09 PM
This is something that I don't quite understand.

How do you have a venerable anything that is only 1st level? Assuming it has a lifespan of even 30 years, what has it been doing for the past three decades that have had no significant impact on it? It gets even worse with races that live longer... humans, elves, dwarves.

They were never infected with the magical substance (drug) called XP. Thousands of adventurers every year are doing the XP. This builds a tolerance where they need more and more just to get their fix called a level.

It is a sad tale. Millions die every year trying to score some by fighting a dragon or in a war.

That old geezer telling the story was not infected until yesterday when he killed a robber attacking his sheep. He knows he will have to choose a class and maintain his fix from now on.

deuxhero
2009-12-03, 08:37 PM
I personally prefer base level=3. Solves the housecat issue among other things.

jmbrown
2009-12-03, 08:45 PM
This is something that I don't quite understand.

How do you have a venerable anything that is only 1st level? Assuming it has a lifespan of even 30 years, what has it been doing for the past three decades that have had no significant impact on it? It gets even worse with races that live longer... humans, elves, dwarves.

Rob Shneider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYsUSBG0BN4) was an average teenage boy until he ventured into a haunted house and magically aged by a ghost. Trapped in a 70 year old man's body, Rob Schneider has devoted his life to killing ghosts the world over. Rob Schneider IS "The First Level Venerable Adventurer."

Rated PG-13

Gossipmonger
2009-12-03, 08:49 PM
They were never infected with the magical substance (drug) called XP. Thousands of adventurers every year are doing the XP. This builds a tolerance where they need more and more just to get their fix called a level.

It is a sad tale. Millions die every year trying to score some by fighting a dragon or in a war.

That is beautiful. Permission to sig?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-03, 08:50 PM
This is something that I don't quite understand.

How do you have a venerable anything that is only 1st level? Assuming it has a lifespan of even 30 years, what has it been doing for the past three decades that have had no significant impact on it? It gets even worse with races that live longer... humans, elves, dwarves.

Bestow Curse can advance you in age categories as per BoVD. All you need to do is convince your friendly local neighborhood caster to prepare the spell.

Pinnacle
2009-12-03, 08:52 PM
Your level is how powerful you are. Most people never become powerful.

If the village elders all had the ability to take on armies, there wouldn't be anything for the PCs to do. Also, it makes a heckuva lot less sense than them being lower level in the first place.

JadedDM
2009-12-03, 09:06 PM
Ah, but why assume that every adventurer begins their career as a youth? Perhaps the level 1 venerable lived a completely ordinary life, and only took up the sword (or staff or lockpick or lute, or whatever) as a senior.

For instance, instead of a young boy whose family is wiped by orcs, so he becomes an adventurer to avenge them, how about instead an old man whose children and grandchildren are wiped out by orcs, so he becomes an adventurer to avenge them?

Demons_eye
2009-12-03, 09:06 PM
Didn't we have this conversation before and some one linked the goblin online comic as a good reason to be old and adventure?

Starbuck_II
2009-12-03, 09:07 PM
That is beautiful. Permission to sig?

Sure. Much obliged.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-12-03, 09:10 PM
A character could have lived a long, simple, but meaningful life till he/she reached venerable age. Then [insert dramatic event] forced him/her to reconsider his/her role in the world and he/she set forth to [insert goal].

rezplz
2009-12-03, 09:16 PM
Maybe some guy had wealthy parents and he did nothing but sit around, eat, and play the occasional tabletop roleplaying game? ;P!


Oh! Maybe the person was in a coma for 50 years (or however long it was) and just woke up. Could make for interesting RP if all of his/her friends are dead or gone, and everything's different.

quicker_comment
2009-12-03, 09:36 PM
D&D level is primarily a measure of strength. Gaining a level pretty much always means becoming substantially harder to defeat in combat. Many people simply lead peaceful lives and never train in any sort of martial art or applicable form of magic. They never at any point become substantially harder to defeat in combat, so they stay at the normal base level for an adult human for their entire lives. That doesn't mean their lives can't have been rich and fulfilling, it just means they weren't actively involved in violent conflict and did not train for that situation.

Now, D&D utterly fails at simulation, so every interpretation has severe weaknesses. But in my opinion this model (which fails by not letting noncombatants earn non-combat skill points over time) works a lot better than the one where we assume that if a guy is really good at making pizzas, he must be twentieth level and thus able to beat up demons with his bare hands.

Gossipmonger
2009-12-03, 09:43 PM
Sweet deal. Also, to actually participate in the thread:

I really don't see why you couldn't start adventuring at venerable age. Any class at all is a step up from a first level commoner, so you could just assume they retrained into wizard or cleric or what have you.
Levels are abstract enough that it doesn't make much of a difference.

rezplz
2009-12-03, 09:55 PM
if a guy is really good at making pizzas, he must be twentieth level and thus able to beat up demons with his bare hands.

I want to make this character now.

Andras
2009-12-03, 09:59 PM
Would it be that hard to simply believe that they didn't feel the call of adventure until old age?

Sir_Elderberry
2009-12-03, 10:01 PM
we assume that if a guy is really good at making pizzas, he must be twentieth level and thus able to beat up demons with his bare hands.

When the Blood War spilled into the pizzeria, nobody expected to survive, but everyone did. When the police came, they found a hiding, shuddering populace, piles of demon carcasses, and one man standing over them, the battle rage barely lifted from his mind. At that moment, Phillip J Fry knew his life would never be the same.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-03, 10:09 PM
I want to make this character now.We had a Hero System game where we played ninjas that worked in an undercover pizza parlor. One guy specialized in pizza-themed instruments of death (ie, pizza pans as giant shurikens and pizza-cutter melee weapons); one used darts to poison people from afar, and ranged acupuncture to heal the rest of the party, and I had a genius-level IQ that let me make insane inventions to help us on our missions (as well as run the pizzaria; we had trouble paying the electricity bills, so I invented a fusion generator that ran off of Gatorade to bake the pizzas).

We had a pizzacopter and everything.

Pinnacle
2009-12-03, 10:09 PM
Now, D&D utterly fails at simulation, so every interpretation has severe weaknesses. But in my opinion this model (which fails by not letting noncombatants earn non-combat skill points over time) works a lot better than the one where we assume that if a guy is really good at making pizzas, he must be twentieth level and thus able to beat up demons with his bare hands.

I've used a house rule where NPCs, especially older ones, can break their level caps for skill points, possibly feats, and maybe even a few spells. It sounds like I'm giving the NPCs an advantage, but since they're whatever level they need to be anyway I'm actually making them weaker.
That skilled mage who never adventured needed X level spells and Y ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) to fill her role in the game, so using the core rules I would've had to make her level Z all around. My way, she's 1st-level in most respects and weaker overall.

rezplz
2009-12-03, 10:12 PM
We had a Hero System game where we played ninjas that worked in an undercover pizza parlor. One guy specialized in pizza-themed instruments of death (ie, pizza pans as giant shurikens and pizza-cutter melee weapons); one used darts to poison people from afar, and ranged acupuncture to heal the rest of the party, and I had a genius-level IQ that let me make insane inventions to help us on our missions (as well as run the pizzaria; we had trouble paying the electricity bills, so I invented a fusion generator that ran off of Gatorade to bake the pizzas).

We had a pizzacopter and everything.

That's awesome! I seriously need to learn to not drink milk when I'm reading these forums. You don't mind if I steal that idea, do you?

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-03, 10:17 PM
That's awesome! I seriously need to learn to not drink milk when I'm reading these forums. You don't mind if I steal that idea, do you?You can use it, ya. Not like I can stop you, eh?

Don't forget the underground base under Mount Hollywood where Evil Ninjas R Us live (yes, a volcano in the middle of Hollywood).

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-03, 11:08 PM
Oh, by the way, that fusion generator? Powerful enough to run the entire eastern seaboard by itself. Why didn't I just sell electricity to pay the bills?

Homey Ninja don't do dat.

I was always coming up with all sorts of whacked-out inventions that seriously overcompensated for anything we ever needed. I made a death-ray gun that could shoot a hole in the moon that I ever only used on its lowest settings to warm my hot chocolate in the mornings.

Also, our mentor was basically Mr. Miyagi with a harem. He mostly spoke to us through a speaker gadget a la Charlie's Angels.

It was weird...

thubby
2009-12-03, 11:34 PM
on the subject of super citizens, even a high level npc is still terrible, because gear basically makes the character. even a lvl 20 pizza man would get destroyed by any creature above level 5, because he couldn't hurt most of them in a meaningful way.

Gorilla2038
2009-12-04, 12:03 AM
Thats not entirely true...we had a game(my first 3.5, and i should have known better) where the DM gave us NPC wealth by. We had 8 players, and he wanted us to be wowed when the church of pelor sent us 10,000 gold. Total. Average character wealth was about 7000. The party leader(a bard admittedly) didnt have +1 armor at 12th level.

Arakune
2009-12-04, 12:06 AM
Thats not entirely true...we had a game(my first 3.5, and i should have known better) where the DM gave us NPC wealth by. We had 8 players, and he wanted us to be wowed when the church of pelor sent us 10,000 gold. Total. Average character wealth was about 7000. The party leader(a bard admittedly) didnt have +1 armor at 12th level.

That's whe you take craft feats.

Gnomo
2009-12-04, 12:22 AM
This is why I always start my campaigns at level 4; Children are level 1, teenagers are level 2, normal adults are level 3, competent adults are level 4, important people (like the PCs) are beyond that.

This also helps to make more level-adequate NPCs, solves the "house cat" problem, and some other inconsequential issues.

Gorilla2038
2009-12-04, 12:35 AM
That's why you take craft feats.

Would have loved to, but the campaign required casters to be from the magic city of jerk. It gave it a good feel, and as long as your fighting armies and PC's with the same wealth by, it isnt bad at all really.

Sliver
2009-12-04, 12:58 AM
D&D was never the same to me since so many venerable commoners started filming their adventures..

What's next? Them seducing the wench? Starting an evil campaign and raping the village's virgins? Damn it oldies, leave the adventure to the young and twisted!

Myrmex
2009-12-04, 01:01 AM
A level 1 venerable is someone who's led a confined life, or had a life full of wasted opportunities. In the real world, this is the middle-aged woman working at Arby's, the elderly man who's a greeter at Wal-mart, the uncle you have who at age 55 is living with his sister because he still can't manage to hold down a job for more than a few months at a time. These are the people who dropped out, dodged the draft, never went to college, never got married, got passed over for that promotion, missed out on the trip to Asia because they didn't want to spend the money.

In short, they've spent their whole lives putting in the minimum effort necessary just to get by, and they've never really accomplished anything.

They're the most unlikely sort to ever become adventurers, but if someone had a dramatic, pivotal experience late in life, they might come to question themselves and decide they're capable of more. They might decide it's never too late to take a risk.

I read an anecdote by Jack Canfield once (the guy who write the Chicken Soup books). He had interviewed a grandmother who was locally famous for having pulled a car off her grandson when he was being crushed by it. She was reluctant to discuss "the incident", and when he asked her why, she said "If I could pick up a car by myself, something I thought was impossible, how many other things have I not done in my life, just because I thought they couldn't be done?" Jack convinced her that it wasn't too late to do the impossible, and this grandmother who was a college dropout but had always had a love for geology went back to college, earned a geology degree, and began teaching geology at a local community college.

I'd say she was definitely an example of how someone who was still 1st level at a venerable age could decide to start really experiencing life (in the leveling up sense).

I can see middle management retirees becoming venerable, and still staying level 1. Stop hating on the blue collar.

Devils_Advocate
2009-12-04, 01:17 AM
Getting older makes you more experienced, but not necessarily smarter.

The aging rules give older characters higher mental ability scores than younger ones, instead of more XP.

This looks like a case where the rules as written don't make sense, and you have to replace them with something else if you want realism.

Gasp! Who would have imagined coming across something like that in D&D?!

Telonius
2009-12-04, 05:11 AM
Another possibility: human Wizard, apprentice to an Elf magical craftsman. Spends his whole life helping the Elf craft stuff, using cooperative crafting to spend some of his own XP every now and then making the items. Finally retires in old age after he realizes he could have been making much better stuff if he'd just struck out on his own.

Rixx
2009-12-04, 06:26 AM
If you're wondering about old PCs
And other RP facts
Then repeat to yourself, "It's just a game,
I should really just relax."

Pinnacle
2009-12-04, 07:14 AM
Getting older makes you more experienced, but not necessarily smarter.

The aging rules give older characters higher mental ability scores than younger ones, instead of more XP.

Getting older doesn't always make one more experienced, especially not the kind of experience that XP represents. Few people earn much of that at all.
How many people fight monsters with any frequency?
Level is tied to feats and skills, but that's because the rules are written to work well for PCs, not common folk. Most of what a level represents is combat and adventuring experience, not just experience of any kind.
"I went to France! That's a new experience! Watch out, I can punch better now."

Amphetryon
2009-12-04, 07:28 AM
The only reason I've ever seen to have "venerable" at 1st level is for CharOp. Those guys aren't concerned about RP logic, it's simply a matter of theoretical optimization for them.
"My name is Edmond Dantès. For 16 years I was an ordinary person, then the Revolution came, and, because of crimes my father allegedly committed against the revolutionaries, I was locked away in a tower on that island you see on the horizon. For decades I was left there, all but forgotten by those who had me locked away, until, by chance, my jailer was felled by some malady within arms' reach. I was free of the cell, but not the island. I scoured that tiny island for days trying to find anything to aid in my escape, when I encountered a tiny cave. Therein, I found a dust-covered tome with a rusted lock, along with a dagger. Upon poring over the tome by candlelight after my meager evening meal, I found it contained spells, and the means by which to cast them. Diligent study and a marked lack of distractions had me able to master such spells as were labeled 'first circle', and with them and the dagger in my possession, I fashioned a crude raft to get to the mainland, where I began to seek answers, and a life for myself...."

Sliver
2009-12-04, 08:06 AM
"I went to France! That's a new experience! Watch out, I can punch better now."

"I killed a bunch of orcs! Now there is no chance I will fail the history exam!"

kentma57
2009-12-04, 09:21 AM
level 1 fighters with 0 experience went through some kind of training. lvl 1 wizards spend ages in an academy. a 0 xp rogue could have spent his life on the streets picking pockets and robing stands. being level 1 means you have gained a command of the basic skills of your class.
someone who has consistently failed at life clearly has no such power.

and having a -6(?) to con at level 1 basically means 1 hp. it might pay off later but later is very unlikely to happen.

What about Sorcerer?
Maybe they are not a failure just scared of the world, to afraid to do anything in this world of magic and monsters...
One day magic just happens to them, a new way to live is revealed. He is one of them now and it's time to act like it.

EDIT: actualy that could make an interesting character...

Telonius
2009-12-04, 09:33 AM
Getting older doesn't always make one more experienced, especially not the kind of experience that XP represents. Few people earn much of that at all.
How many people fight monsters with any frequency?
Level is tied to feats and skills, but that's because the rules are written to work well for PCs, not common folk. Most of what a level represents is combat and adventuring experience, not just experience of any kind.
"I went to France! That's a new experience! Watch out, I can punch better now."

Depends on what part of France, I suppose. :smallbiggrin:

thubby
2009-12-04, 02:05 PM
What about Sorcerer?
Maybe they are not a failure just scared of the world, to afraid to do anything in this world of magic and monsters...
One day magic just happens to them, a new way to live is revealed. He is one of them now and it's time to act like it.

EDIT: actualy that could make an interesting character...

they may have just never realized they were magical. iirc the signs of being a sorcerer are more or less the same as being haunted, or cursed.