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Anonymouswizard
2009-12-03, 02:12 PM
Inspired by this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133626)

When reading the thread I had an idea that, instead of giving out set abilities (or templates) fighters should gain the choice of a set of abilities that come from training or a supernatural touch. So I proudly present my fighter fix, please PEACH this fix, it needs to be retooled and refined.

Fighter
Fluff as the normal fighter.
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+1|+0|+0|+2|Bonus feat
2|+2|+0|+0|+3|Bonus feat
3|+3|+1|+1|+3|Talent
4|+4|+1|+1|+4|Bonus feat
5|+5|+1|+1|+4|Talent
6|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5|Bonus feat
7|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5|Talent
8|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6|Bonus feat
9|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6|Talent
10|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7|Bonus feat
11|+11/+6/+5|+3|+3|+7|Talent
12|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8|Bonus feat
13|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8|Talent
14|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9|Bonus feat
15|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9|Talent
16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10|Bonus feat
17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Talent
18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11|Bonus feat
19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Talent
20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Bonus feat[/table]
Weapon and armour proficiency: Fighters are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as all armour and shields (including tower shields).
Bonus feats: at 1st level, 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat from the fighter bonus feat list.
Talents: at 3rd level and every two levels thereafter, a fighter can choose any talent from the fighter talent list. Talents are split into two types, called trained (gained from training), and supernatural (others). If he picks a talent that grants him spellcasting he never gains any bonus spells per day or 0th level spells.


Trained talents
Deflection: As an imediate action, you may roll a reflex save with DC 20 in order to deflect any ranged attack at you. If you have a magical weapon or shield, you can even deflect rays, orbs, SLA, su, spells and anything else wich specificaly target you, but the DC becomes 20+corresponding spell level
Magical resilience: You gain the ability to shrug off magical attacks, gaining a +2 bonus to all saves against spells. If the spell in question does not grant a save normally you may attempt a will save at a -5 penalty (includes the bonus granted by this talent).
Mighty blow: the amount of damage you deal when you use the power attack feat increases by 1 point per three points of attack bonus sacrificed.
Skimming blade: When you hit an opponent with a successful ranged attack with a throwing weapon you may have the weapon either attempt to hit a target within 30ft with a -2 penalty to the attack roll, or return to your hand to be thrown again.
Tinkerer: You can build any nonmagical item by a 1/100th of it's market price. Poisons and nonenchanted weapons/armor of special materials count as nonmagical for this. You may craft up to 1000 worth's of items per day. However they're only good in your hands, and everybody will see them as junk, and unwilling to use or buy them.
Weapon trick: By taking a -1 penalty on all attack rolls in a round you may gain a +2 bonus to AC for the rest of the round.
Supernatural talents
Ascendant: You must immediately lose any two of your other talents when you gain this one. You immediately gain the half-fiend or half celestial template, based on whichever is more suited to your alignment.
Call Mind Blade: You may, as a free action which may be performed outside of the normal turn sequence, create a weapon from nothing. When you use this ability, pick any melee weapon in which you are proficient. An example of this weapon appears instantly in your hand, composed of magical or psychic essence (this is considered to have an effective hardness of 15, ignores the hardness of objects with less hardness than it, and ignores damage reduction based on special materials [other than adamantine]). A mind blade has no listed hitpoints, because damage to a mind blade is not relevant to play.
It acts in the exact same way as a normal weapon of its type, with the exception that it can now be thrown with a range increment of 30ft. If the weapon could already be thrown, instead add 30 ft to its range increment.
Your mind blade automatically has a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and effective hardness for every three fighter levels you possess. Additionally, you may add special abilities up to a total bonus equivalent equal to half your fighter level, provided that no special ability has a bonus equivalent greater than +5 or one-third your character level, whichever is less.
Eldritch power: You immediately gain 1 least invocation that you can use as a warlock of half your fighter level. If he has a class level of at least 15 and takes this talent a second time he can choose a least or lesser invocation.
Guardian of the faith: You gain the ability to cast 1st level cleric spells as a cleric of half your class level. You can gain this ability up to 6 times, each time gaining an extra spell level. You gain no domains or domain slots.
Soulsword: when you gain this ability you must choose one weapon that you own, and receive the following benefits: an enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls equal to one quarter your fighter level, and DR 5/- whenever you wield your soul weapon. However,if you are ever seperated from your soul weapon you receive 1 tempory negative level tthat may not be cured until you regain your soul weapon.
Spellsword: You gain the ability to cast 1st level generalist wizard spells as a wizard of half your class level. You may not specialize, and you only scribe 1 new spell whenever you gain a new caster level. You can gain this ability up to 6 times, gaining an extra spell level each time.

If anyone has any ideas for talent's please poet them, I have no inspiration for trained talents.

Edwin
2009-12-03, 02:18 PM
While it seems like a good idea, I'd say that most of the Supernatural talents are.. lacking.

Giving 1st level caster levels is almost useless at levels above 3rd or, in a stretch, 5th.

But as I said, I like the idea. Maybe make it: The Mutating Fighter, and give it a bunch of mutations, in the line of:

Scales of the Lizard, lesser:
Your natural armor improves by one. If you do not posses natural armor, you gain a natural armor bonus of one.

And such like?

Boci
2009-12-03, 02:38 PM
While it seems like a good idea, I'd say that most of the Supernatural talents are.. lacking.

Giving 1st level caster levels is almost useless at levels above 3rd or, in a stretch, 5th.

Could build upon it. Allow them to chanel the spell / cast it as a move action, eventually a swift action.

Edwin
2009-12-03, 02:42 PM
Could build upon it. Allow them to chanel the spell / cast it as a move action, eventually a swift action.

Sure, it could be utilized for something. Magic always can. But there already are a hundred and twenty four classes out there that are basically wizards with swords, so why make another one?

I'd say, in my opinion at least, it would be more interesting to have a fighter that gained animal features as he leveled, or maybe demonic, devilish, draconic, or whatever.

Boci
2009-12-03, 02:44 PM
Sure, it could be utilized for something. Magic always can. But there already are a hundred and twenty four classes out there that are basically wizards with swords, so why make another one?

I'd say, in my opinion at least, it would be more interesting to have a fighter that gained animal features as he leveled, or maybe demonic, devilish, draconic, or whatever.

Isn't that just reflavouring buffs? Also, there's already the totemist.

Edwin
2009-12-03, 02:48 PM
Isn't that just reflavouring buffs? Also, there's already the totemist.

It is. And yes, there is, but we're talking about Anonymouswizard's homebrew here.

Nero24200
2009-12-03, 03:13 PM
If I was giving the fighter supernatural abilties I'd be tempted to add some psionics in (since, in terms of fluff, they seem like the easist and most likely to develop in an otherwise mundane class). Also, rather than just saying "from X list", I might make up a set list for them (possibly tossing in some fighter only spells that work a little better for combat classes, kinda like the Lion's Charge power or Blade of Flames spell from the SpC).

Having said that some of the talents seem a little confusing, let me see if I've got them right...

Cleric of Faith grants cleric spells, with your caster level equal to half your fighter level. You can only prepere 1st level spells, but gain the option of prepering higher level ones by selecting the talent more than once. Is that the right interpretation? How many spells can he prepere?

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-03, 03:42 PM
Cleric of Faith grants cleric spells, with your caster level equal to half your fighter level. You can only prepere 1st level spells, but gain the option of prepering higher level ones by selecting the talent more than once. Is that the right interpretation? How many spells can he prepere?

Yes it is. I might change it so you gain two spell levels at a time, but not any more than that. As I said in the talents section they don't gain any bonus spells at the moment, but I might change it so that they do gain them. I am really looking for ideas for the trained abilities, as it is hard to make abilities without making them ending up with a supernatural theme.

Also I might give them their own spell lists, although arcane caster will most likely use abjuration, illusion, and transmutation spells from the wizard list.

Nero24200
2009-12-03, 04:00 PM
Not sure warlock invocations would be the best idea. They last all day, but are limited in that the choice avaliable is limited compared to wizard spells. If the fighters are only gaining a limited option of spells, I might cut back on the invocations.

Though ideas...

Well, for a supernatural fighter, I wouldn't mind options to maybe reflext certain spells back at the caster (ala spell turning).

Although not particular fantastic despite being magical, how about an ability to throw throwing weapons and have them return even if they don't have the returning enhancment?

Edit: Another, how about a bonded weapon option of some kind? Something like what the Kensai gains.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-03, 04:51 PM
What book is the Kensai in?

Boci
2009-12-03, 05:24 PM
What book is the Kensai in?

Origionally Oriental Adventurers, but more recently in complete warrior, which is the one Nero is refering to.


It is.

So its another fighter with spells, just reflavoured? Evocations is a good idea though.

Oslecamo
2009-12-03, 05:49 PM
Ah, so you went forward with this! Great!

Now, the abilities you listed seem somewhat lacking, so allow me to sugest some better stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132335).

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-04, 04:29 PM
After looking at the fighter only feats that were linked to I have added the deflection and tinkerer abilities. If anyone has any please post them, I will add them if they have any obvious theme. I will think about scales of the lizard, see if it needs any more parts to it. However, you are free to make the mutating fighter if you wish.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-02, 08:05 AM
Added the soulsword ability to the fighter, I would like more abilities that increase his effectiveness in combat.

lesser_minion
2010-01-02, 10:50 AM
You could certainly get away with adding Mind Blades and the ability to throw them to your talent list.

Try (it's a bit long, because I had to capture quite a few abilities):

Call Mind Blade: You may, as a free action which may be performed outside of the normal turn sequence, create a weapon from nothing. When you use this ability, pick any melee weapon in which you are proficient. An example of this weapon appears instantly in your hand, composed of magical or psychic essence (this is considered to have an effective hardness of 15, ignores the hardness of objects with less hardness than it, and ignores damage reduction based on special materials [other than adamantine]). A mind blade has no listed hitpoints, because damage to a mind blade is not relevant to play.

A Mind Blade can only be sustained while you hold it, and while you are excited or in danger. Any Mind Blade that you are no longer sustaining will disappear, although they will deal damage first if you throw them.

It acts in the exact same way as a normal weapon of its type, with the exception that it can now be thrown with a range increment of 30ft. If the weapon could already be thrown, instead add 30 ft to its range increment.

Your mind blade automatically has a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and effective hardness for every three fighter levels you possess. Additionally, you may add special abilities up to a total bonus equivalent equal to half your fighter level, provided that no special ability has a bonus equivalent greater than +5 or one-third your character level, whichever is less.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-02, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the mindblade ability, it is now in the supernatural section.

And anyone got a possible PP/powers know progression for psionics?

lesser_minion
2010-01-02, 11:22 AM
Thanks for the mindblade ability, it is now in the supernatural section.

And anyone got a possible PP/powers know progression for psionics?

Remember to add a note that Mind Blades disappear if you stop wielding them or cease to be in danger (but deal damage first if used in a successful thrown weapon attack).

OK, Call Mind Blade, v 0.5.1:

Bound Weapon: A powerful weapon is seemingly a part of your soul.

You may call a bound weapon at any time as a free action, provided you are not surprised or flat-footed. This is a supernatural ability. Whether the weapon actually exists elsewhere, or is simply a manifestation of your character's essence, is for you to decide.

When you call a bound weapon, it appears in a spiritual form, with hardness 15. It cannot be meaningfully damaged, sundered or disarmed, and may ignore damage reduction in the same way as a magic weapon created of material you choose which has an equal or less hardness than it.

You may freely choose the form and effective material of a bound weapon when you call it, and may change this as a free action.

A bound weapon appears in the form of either a single weapon in which you are proficient, or a matched pair of weapons in which you are proficient. Melee bound weapons may be thrown with a ranged increment of 30ft, or a +30ft bonus to any range increment they had before

A bound weapon disappears if you cease wielding it, or if you cease to be in any kind of dangerous or desperate situation (at the DM's discretion).

A bound weapon receives a bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and hardness, in the same way as an enchanted weapon. At first level, this bonus is +1, but this bonus improves by +1 for every four character levels you attain.

The final benefit of a bound weapon is that the fighter may unlock further powers within it by practicing with the weapon for an extended period of time.

Design and price such an enchantment in the same way as a normal weapon enchantment (the requirement to include an enhancement bonus in the enchantment is waived in this case). The fighter does not have to spend any gold or experience to enchant the weapon, but the price of the enchantment may not be more than 300 gp for every 1,000 xp in the fighter's total, and the fighter must still devote the normal period of time to creating the enchantment.

Once this enchantment is created, it always applies to any bound weapon the fighter creates (this includes both ends of a double weapon, and both of a matched pair of weapons). Special abilities applied to a bound weapon may only be used while the bound weapon is in a form that does not preclude that ability.


I think this needs to be described as a general effect and then linked to, really. It takes so many clauses to work, annoyingly.

Drolyt
2010-01-02, 12:05 PM
I like this, or I think it is a start anyways. For the talents that give you spells/powers/invocations, it says you can gain them up to six times. How is that possible pre-epic? Your CL maxes out at 10. So I would just put something there about how you can't cast something if you don't have high enough caster level. Also making it so the spellcasting talents do something else too might be nice, right now you don't get any cantrips maybe the first time you take the talent you get 0th level spell-like abilities. Adding in things like quickening spells or whatever would make those talents actually useful, as it is I'm not sure this variant is that much better than a regular fighter (assuming you took those talents, the other ones represent a nice power boost). Part of it is you need more talents to choose from, so keep up the good work. As a final note I see nothing wrong with taking abilities from other classes (flurry of blows, Smite Evil) or with making all your talents fighter only feats and giving fighters a feat every level.

Drolyt
2010-01-02, 12:09 PM
Thanks for the mindblade ability, it is now in the supernatural section.

And anyone got a possible PP/powers know progression for psionics?

Just give him the Psychic Warrior's progression, but put caps on it so he has to spend more than just one talent to get 20th level benefits. I think fighters who take casting/manifesting talents should get bonus spells and should get some cantrips/orisons as spell-like abilities or something.

Solaris
2010-01-02, 09:59 PM
As for recommendations on the trained (nonsupernatural) talents, I'd like to point you towards my fighter fix (http://clockwork-avalon.wikispaces.com/Fighter). Break up the tracks into talents, but give 'em prerequisites (such as Ritter I, Ritter II, etc). Just a thought.


So its another fighter with spells, just reflavoured? Evocations is a good idea though.

Ugh. Giving the fighter spells is kind of missing the point - I say that if you had to do it, give 'im buffs.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-03, 06:50 AM
As for recommendations on the trained (nonsupernatural) talents, I'd like to point you towards my fighter fix (http://clockwork-avalon.wikispaces.com/Fighter). Break up the tracks into talents, but give 'em prerequisites (such as Ritter I, Ritter II, etc). Just a thought.



Ugh. Giving the fighter spells is kind of missing the point - I say that if you had to do it, give 'im buffs.

Thanks for the recomendations: I thought your fix was rather good.

The spells were an add on for the case of those who want to play a paladin but don't wnat the class, I'll restrict the spells to 2nd level.